April/Faulkner Book: The Sound and the Fury

[Pensive]

I agree with Ry. Emily is a cool chick!

Chick reminds me of chicken and chicken makes me think about Bird Flu and then I feel horrible.

[Ryduce]

I just can't win.

[Virgil]

Chick reminds me of chicken and chicken makes me think about Bird Flu and then I feel horrible.

Pensy - It's just an expression.

[emily655321]

Aw, I feel such love. Thanks again, boys.

Poor Pensy—"chick" just means "girl." And this girl doesn't have the flu. American soldiers in France during WWI adopted the term "poule" ("chicken," but slang for "prostitute") and translated it for reimportation into the American dialect. (My teacher told me this when we were reading Hemingway. I liked that teacher.)

[Virgil]

I'd like to put out this lengthy post on how I think the novel holds together. I do it mid month only because tomorrow is Easter and TSATF is so linked to the holiday.

Why is the novel centered on the Easter weekend? Why are there three chapters in first person interior monologue and the fourth in third person?

I believe the novel all comes together with the Easter sermon of Reverend Shegog. Here are some excerpts. He starts:

"Brethren and sisteren,"

And here you can say he not only is addressing the brothers and sisters in the congregation, but the Compson siblings.

"Breddren en sistuhn!" His voice rang again, with the horns. He removed his arm and stood erect and raised his hands. "I got de ricklickshun en de blood of de Lamb!" They did not mark just when his intonation, his pronunciation, became negroid, they just sat swaying a little in their seats as the voice took them into itself.
"When de long, cold--Oh, I tells you, breddren, when de long, cold.... I sees de light en I sees de word, po sinner! Dey passed away in Egypt, de swingin chariots; de generations passed away. Wus a rich man: whar he now, O breddren? Wus a po man: whar he now, O sistuhn? Oh I tells you, ef you aint got de milk en de dew of de old salvation when de long, cold years rolls away!"
"Yes, Jesus!"
"I tells you, breddren, en I tells you, sistuhn, dey'll come a time. Po sinner sayin Let me lay down wid de Lawd, femme lay down my load. Den whut Jesus "wine say, O breddren? O sistuhn? Is you got de ricklickshun en de Blood of de Lamb? Case I aint gwine load down heaven!"

The preacher is describing a vision: “I sees the light.” And later:

"Breddren! Look at dem little chiller settin dar. Jesus wus like dat once. He mammy suffered de glory en de pangs. Sometime maybe she heft him at de nightfall, whilst de angels singin him to sleep; maybe she look out de do en see de Roman po-lice passin." He tramped back and forth, mopping his face. "Listen, breddren! I sees de day. Ma'y settin in de do wid Jesus on her lap, de little Jesus. Like dem chiller dar, de little Jesus. I hears de angels singin de peaceful songs en de glory; I sees de closin eyes; sees Mary jump up, sees de sojer face: We gwine to kill! We gwine to kill! We gwine to kill yo little Jesus! I hears de weepin en de lamentation of de po mammy widout de salvation en de word of God!"

And the vision is tied together with human life, its pains, its passions, its sufferings.

"I sees, O Jesus! Oh I sees!" and still another, without words, like bubbles rising in water.
"I sees hit, breddren! I sees hit! Sees de blastin, blindin sight! I sees Calvary, wid de sacred trees, sees de thief en de murderer en de least of dese; I hears de boastin en de braggin: Ef you be Jesus, lif up yo tree en walk! I hears de wailin of women en de evenin lamentations; I hears de weepin en de cryin en de turns-away face of God: dey done kilt Jesus; dey done kilt my Son!"

And again his key word is “sees”, “I sees.” And so Faulkner gives us here the key to the novel. To see. So much of the narratives in the novel deal with seeing, whether it’s Luster trying to find his quarter or Quentin’s recalling visions of the past or Jason searching for the man in the red tie or Benjy, at the very beginning of the novel, looking through the slats of fence at the golfers. Faulkner even draws in the text an eye in the last chapter. These, however, are claustrophobic visions. The Reverend’s vision is a transcending vision, a vision that is outside the span of time and place. The fourth chapter is in third person, opening up to a panorama of vision. It is as if now we are seeing the story through the eyes of God.

The first three chapters are interior monologues to emphasize the limited vision of humanity. The very first image of Benjy looking through the fence is the metaphor that shapes the novel. We are looking at the world through slits of a fence, through the eyes of a thirty-three year old, through the mind of a retarded man, through the heart of a child. The first three chapters emphasize that the world, if allowed, can be limited to the self.

And what is Easter but a ritual outside linear time. The “blood of the lamb” is a ritual that binds society. It is in contrast to the self. It is a communal endeavor, a shared vision, a touchstone from which the self has undergone a passage.

I see the three Compson boys (and once I would have included Caddy too, but now I have my doubts) as boys who have failed to undergo a rite of passage into adulthood. Benjy, through no fault of his own, is forever a child and is even castrated; Quentin cannot come to terms with sexuality; and Jason cannot form human relations of the heart. The sexual dysfunction of each is a means for Faulkner to show that to be locked up into one’s self, to not form bonds with the community, is to be severed from humanity. The other key word from the sermon is “recollection.” Recollection, synonym for memory, and that echoes so much of the novel, also is a form of "re-collect". To recollect is to bring back to whole from multiple parts. It is to bind back, and that is what Easter (and Faulkner could have easily picked Passover or Ramadan or other ritualized holidays of any religion) does. It binds us back from our severed (crucified?) selves.

And so we have the tragedy of the Compson family, a family of severed individuals. Faulkner tells the novel in vignettes, which are severed narrative. Benjy, although Christ-like, is not a Christ figure; he will always be a castrated child-man. Quentin, paralyzed by memory and history, drowns forever a virgin, and Jason, a conglomerate of selfish obsessions, is forever severed from humanity through his hatreds. In fact he doesn’t even know it’s Easter Sunday.

In contrast is Dilsey, the embodiment of unselfishness. When she leaves the church after the sermon, tears come to her eyes:

“Yes, suh. He seed hit. Face to face he seed hit."
Dilsey made no sound, her face did not quiver as the tears took their sunken and devious courses, walking with her head up, making no effort to dry them away even.
"Whyn't you quit dat, mammy?" Frony said. "Wid all dese people lookin. We be passin white folks soon."
"I've seed de first en de last," Dilsey said. "Never you mind me."

She too sees the vision. She has seen the first and the last, echoing Genesis, the alpha and the omega. She is not a severed individual but one bound to the community and to family. She obtains that vision of the blood of the lamb, and so transcends mortality and it’s limitations and weaknesses.

This has been my sermon. I hope you enjoyed it. Have a Happy Easter Sunday.

[Scheherazade]

I have been busy reading As I Lay Dying and The Age of Innocence recently hence still haven't finished TSATF (just finished reading Benjy's part for the second time). I am somewhat relieved that this part was not as confusing as I thought it would be - although I am sure there are things I have missed and will be clearer to me only after reading the later parts.

I have only quickly scanned the posts so far not to spoil it for myself but could not see any discussions on the title, which I has intruiged me from the start. After conferring with good old google, I have found this:

The title and some of the imagery in the novel derive from a soliloquy by the title character in Shakespeare’s tragedy Macbeth. In Act V, Scene v, following the death of his wife, and as he begins to realize his dire situation, Macbeth speaks his “Tomorrow” soliloquy:

To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury
Signifying nothing.

http://www.mcsr.olemiss.edu/~egjbp/f..._sf.html#title

'A tale told by an idiot' (Benjy - at least initially) it surely is! Also, I am wondering at the 'sound and fury signifying nothing' reference. Is it because of the family and their reluctance to accept the present facts, still clinging to their past ideals even though in present they are irrelevant?

Also, this quote made me think a lot as well. After she gets wet in the river, Caddy climbs up the tree to see what is going on in the house:

[Versh] went and pushed Caddy up into the tree to the first limb. We watched the muddy bottom of her drawers.

Even though they are all children when this happens, I find it rather creepy for some reason and wonder if it is some kind of foreshadowing: The boys' 'unnatural' obssession with their sister and, maybe, her future promiscuity (=dirty bottom)? (Am I reading too much into one single sentence?)

[Virgil]

I have only quickly scanned the posts so far not to spoil it for myself but could not see any discussions on the title, which I has intruiged me from the start. After conferring with good old google, I have found this: 'A tale told by an idiot' (Benjy - at least initially) it surely is! Also, I am wondering at the 'sound and fury signifying nothing' reference. Is it because of the family and their reluctance to accept the present facts, still clinging to their past ideals even though in present they are irrelevant?

We have not discussed the title. I don't think it's as simple as saying Benjy is the idiot that provides sound and fury. There are all sorts of sound and fury throughout the novel. here's one off the top of my head: During the Easter sermon, the congregation mutters, "Mmmmm." Certainly sound.

Also, this quote made me think a lot as well. After she gets wet in the river, Caddy climbs up the tree to see what is going on in the house:Even though they are all children when this happens, I find it rather creepy for some reason and wonder if it is some kind of foreshadowing: The boys' 'unnatural' obssession with their sister and, maybe, her future promiscuity (=dirty bottom)? (Am I reading too much into one single sentence?)

You are not reading too much into that. The muddy drawers are a key detail. Also you just made me realize something I said in my previous post. The importance to the novel of "seeing." Caddy climbs the tree and sees.

[papayahed]

I finsihed the book over Easter and it seems to me the theme of the novels is the powerlessness. I've read a few places that the book had a lot to do with the south after the civil war, there was a powerlessness there also.

Benji was basically powerless over himself.

Quentin was powerless against Caddie she did what she wanted, he couldn't get his father to see the importance of Caddies pregenancy, he tried and fail to threaten Dalton Ames, he didn't do well at school, he didn't even stick up for himself at the police station.

Dilsey - powerless to raise those kids correctly, she did what she could but ultimately Mr and Mrs Compson had the finaly say.

Mr Compson - powerless over alcohol

Mrs Compson - pfftt. she was to busy being ill to deal with anything accept screw Jason up, she pretty much laid the responsibilty for the family at his feet.

Jason - I don't know about that one, but he was always threatening something but he never really did anything. Well besides steal maybe he was powerless over his own greed and hatred.

Quentin was not powerless, she did what she had to do and got out. Perhaps she's the hope for the new south - I read that somewhere.

[Virgil]

That's a good observation, Papaya. The novel seems to have more dimensions that I can count.

[Scheherazade]

We have not discussed the title. I don't think it's as simple as saying Benjy is the idiot that provides sound and fury.

I did not say that. It seems like Faulkner got the title from Macbeth's 'It is a tale/ Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury/Signifying nothing.' I just thought that the story is also, at least initially, told by an 'idiot' but the rest of the 'sound and fury signifying nothing' reference is still open to interpretation, which I questioned in my previous post.

There are all sorts of sound and fury throughout the novel. here's one off the top of my head: During the Easter sermon, the congregation mutters, "Mmmmm." Certainly sound.

I am not sure if Faulkner is referring to simple, literal sounds such as 'mmm' in the title or at least it is not all of it. I haven't finished reading the book yet but to me it is more like the family's arguments and fights with each other as well as their rage against their disappearance as a 'class' in the South; against the changing order of the society. And, maybe, all this matters little to anyone else, hence, 'signifies nothing'.

I am half way through Quentin's chapter and the change is amazing. Even though Benjy was presented to a retarded person, his chapter was much clearer than Quentin's, which makes me wonder if Benjy was autistic rather than mentally retarded. Also, it seemed like Benjy didn't have a sense of time, mixing past and present whereas Quentin seems obssessed with it, listening his watch and clocks, guessing what time it would be, counting the chimes. Not sure what this means (probably signifies nothing!) but just an observation.

[Virgil]

Also, it seemed like Benjy didn't have a sense of time, mixing past and present whereas Quentin seems obssessed with it, listening his watch and clocks, guessing what time it would be, counting the chimes. Not sure what this means (probably signifies nothing!) but just an observation.

No I think it's more than an observation. Benjy lives in a timeless manner in many respects. Quentin is just the opposite. The shadow (shadows keep coming up in the Quentin section) of history (Southern history, family history) keeps overwhelming Quentin. And so Quentin wants to stop time; freeze it. Suicide is a way of freezing time.

[bluevictim]

Every time I finish reading this novel, I feel like I need to read it again. Here are some of my thoughts.

Despite being narrated completely by men, I think an important issue in this novel is the situation of women.

To me, the plot (not necessarily the whole novel) hinges on Caddy getting pregnant by (possibly) Dalton Ames. It leads to her marriage to and abandonment by Herbert, which causes Jason's disappointment and resentment; it seems to be the source of the confusion and despair which brings Quentin to suicide; and, of course, it produces Miss Quentin.

Her predicament highlights the double standard in many societies regarding chastity. Unlike the men who can easily escape the consequences of promiscuity, Caddy, like Hester Prynne, cannot avoid the judgement of the world because her "defilement", like the mud on her drawers, is outwardly visible (would the mud on her drawers be visible if she were wearing pants instead of a dress?). Quentin exhibits this double standard quite explicitly. He wished that Caddy was a virgin but at the same time he wished that he wasn't a virgin, perhaps losing his virginity to someone else's sister.

I think someone mentioned Greek tragedy. It's funny how the women in Jason's household stay in their chambers, like in ancient Greek society. Miss Quentin running off with Jason's (and her) money makes me think of Medea's revenge on her Jason by killing his (and her) children. The unfair treatment of women feature prominently in Medea's story, as well.

On another note, the family seems to be a bit of a house divided against itself -- the Compsons (Mr. Jason, Quentin, Caddy, Benjy(?), Miss Quentin (?)) versus the Bascombs (Caroline, Jason). This is emphasized most explicitly by Caroline, but Jason doesn't seem to have much affection for the "Compsons", either. It seems that the "Bascombs" are a lot more concerned with outward appearances and propriety than the "Compsons". Perhaps it reflects the old South versus the new (post Civil War) South.

[Scheherazade]

I have finished Q's section: I loved especially the last few pages, where he remembers his talks with Caddy... Such passion and anger even though it adds up to nothing. Very touching.

Any thoughts on this passage?

Sir I will not need Shreve's I have sold Benjy's pasture and I can be dead in Harvard Caddy said in the caverns and the grottoes of the sea tumbling peacefully to the waering tides because Harvard is such a fine sound forty acres is no-high price for a fine sound. A fine dead sound we will swap Benjy's pasture for a fine dead sound. It will last him a long time because he cannot hear it unless he can smell it as soon as she came in the door he began to cry

Benji was basically powerless over himself.

Quentin was powerless against Caddie she did what she wanted, he couldn't get his father to see the importance of Caddies pregenancy, he tried and fail to threaten Dalton Ames, he didn't do well at school, he didn't even stick up for himself at the police station.

Dilsey - powerless to raise those kids correctly, she did what she could but ultimately Mr and Mrs Compson had the finaly say.

Mr Compson - powerless over alcohol

Mrs Compson - pfftt. she was to busy being ill to deal with anything accept screw Jason up, she pretty much laid the responsibilty for the family at his feet.

Jason - I don't know about that one, but he was always threatening something but he never really did anything. Well besides steal maybe he was powerless over his own greed and hatred.

Quentin was not powerless, she did what she had to do and got out. Perhaps she's the hope for the new south - I read that somewhere.

Papaya, I really like this approach (am thinking one even can write a paper based on it! ) but there are couple of points that I disagree with. In my opinion, Quentin was powerless in the face of social pressure and also his affection for Caddy.

Also, I do not consider Dilsey powerless at all. It seems like she is the only who manages to keep it together throughout the book and still standing when the book ends. It is kind of ironic that it is a black person who manages this, despite everything they have to endure from the family. It is not Dilsey's responsibility to raise the children; it it the parents who fail them.

Couple of questions floating in my mind as I finished reading:

-Why did Faulkner choose Easter for recording the events? This I find interesting because the family does not seem particularly religious. Even when Caddy gets pregnant, there is no mention of 'sin' but 'shame' it will bring on the family. The only time Mrs C refers to the Bible is when she asks Dilsey to find her copy, which seems carelessly cast aside and there is no proof that she actually reads it.

- What is the significance of the sermon Dilsey attends? If it is a religious reference ('lamb'?), it is lost on me.

- When Dilsey keeps repeating 'I seed de beginnin, en now I sees de endin.', does she refer to the end of the family? I.e., the Compson family have lost all their chance and will no longer be the influential family they had been?

- Do u fink I shud read da Sprknts or sumfing instead of bodering y'all?

[papayahed]

Papaya, I really like this approach (am thinking one even can write a paper based on it! ) but there are couple of points that I disagree with. In my opinion, Quentin was powerless in the face of social pressure and also his affection for Caddy.

Also, I do not consider Dilsey powerless at all. It seems like she is the only who manages to keep it together throughout the book and still standing when the book ends. It is kind of ironic that it is a black person who manages this, despite everything they have to endure from the family. It is not Dilsey's responsibility to raise the children; it it the parents who fail them.

Get that thought out of your mind Scher!! I am not writing a paper!!!

oh, no doubt the parents definately failed the kids, I was just thinking that Dilsey was powerless to make the kids better. I don't know if that makes sense, she did the best she could by them but ultimately the parents came in a messed them up specifically when she tried to get Jason to leave Miss Quentin alone, he wouldn't and that daft Ms Compson said "Well it's his house now, he's the head let him do what he thinks is best" (to paraphrase of course)

And ya know what else bugs me: The Jason refering to Benjy as "The great American Gelding". I just wanna punch him in the nose!

[Virgil]

-Why did Faulkner choose Easter for recording the events? This I find interesting because the family does not seem particularly religious. Even when Caddy gets pregnant, there is no mention of 'sin' but 'shame' it will bring on the family. The only time Mrs C refers to the Bible is when she asks Dilsey to find her copy, which seems carelessly cast aside and there is no proof that she actually reads it.

- What is the significance of the sermon Dilsey attends? If it is a religious reference ('lamb'?), it is lost on me.

- When Dilsey keeps repeating 'I seed de beginnin, en now I sees de endin.', does she refer to the end of the family? I.e., the Compson family have lost all their chance and will no longer be the influential family they had been?

- Do u fink I shud read da Sprknts or sumfing instead of bodering y'all?

Scher, I answered this in one of the earlier posts. If you disagree, let me know and we can discuss it. Check post #119 on this thread.