Chekhov Short Story Thread

[Idril]

btw love yr new avatar idril...

I'm assuming you're talking about Chris there? Yes, a few people are sporting beefcake in honor of Biblio's birthday and I'm not really the male model type so I went with the rocker theme. He's as good a beefcake as any.

For being as much of Dostoevsky fan as I am, I haven't read The Idiot or The Possessed--two of his major novels. I dissuaded myself from reading The Idiot because I thought it would be overly sentimental and probably contain long boring passages where little happens. I estimated The Idiot by taking the boring passages from The Brothers Karamazov and stretched them into 600 pages. From what you and Idril are saying, though, it seems like I may have made a mistake. Is the book dark and tragic? I thought it would be unrealistically upbeat since it has a hero that Dostoevsky believed very strongly in. My favorite Dostoevsky characters are the ones that he's critical of; Ivan Karamazov and Raskilnokov are the best ones, I think.

Oh my gosh, there is nothing, not even remotely upbeat about The Idiot. Dostoevsky might like Myshkin, but that doesn't stop him from torturing the poor man endlessly. Not one happy or sentimental thing happens in that book so you don't have to worry about that. It is both dark and tragic. And I hear you about Brothers Karamazov, I had a hard time with that one but The Idiot doesn't have quite the tangents than BK has. Dostoevsky has a tendency to rant, that's there in some form in all his books but I didn't find it as bothersome in this one as Brothers. The Posessed is excellent as well, I have a hard time deciding which is my favorite Dostoevsky book, that or Crime and Punishment...it's that good.

Yeah, I was rolling my eyes at Dmitri's misogyny and also his pretentious wife. They're quite a pair. Do you think Dmitri really means it, though? Does he really view women as a "lower race" or is he merely being guarded? In that great paragraph where Dmitri learns the difference between his personal life and his fake social life, he considers his negative view of women as part of that disingenuous public life. Could Dmitri's disrespect towards women be fake?

Well, I thought it was interesting when Chekhov said that Dmitri "feared" his wife, it's an interesting choice of words considering that he was dismissing her for being unintelligent and inelegant. There's part of me that thinks what Dmitri fears the most is emotional intimacy, hence his affairs and his opinion of women as the "lower race". He sets himself apart from them and objectifies them, even his wife he keeps at a "safe" distance. I think to a certain extent, that's why I feel his relationship with Anna has a fair chance of being real. Chekhov even says, "And only now when his head was grey he had fallen properly, really in love-for the first time in his life." Who's to say he can mantain that feeling, falling in love can be easy, it's mantaining that gets tricky.

Or, what happens when Anna discovers that Dmitri isn't the kind and lofty gentlemen that she thinks he is?

Ah but doesn't Dmitri address this specifically?

He always seemed to women different from what he was, and they loved in him not himself, but the man created by their imagination, whom they had been eagerly seeking all their lives; and afterwards, when they noticed their mistake, they loved him all the same.

Dmitri doesn't seem to be too worried she'll come to her senses and perhaps with her, he will be lofty. Perhaps she'll give him the honor and depth of character that women have always imagined he had....it's a possibility anyway.

Wow, that does sound hot. You right; I don't remember that part in the book, either. Was it still the same story--though with a little more nudity?

Well, they do have a lot of sex because, you know, they have a lot of kids so while it's not spelled out in the book, maybe for the movie they've "fleshed" that part out a bit.

[Quark]

Very quickly, before tomorrow, I want to reply to some things. I'll probably rephrase a lot of this tomorrow when I read how incoherent much of it is.

Well, I thought it was interesting when Chekhov said that Dmitri "feared" his wife, it's an interesting choice of words considering that he was dismissing her for being unintelligent and inelegant. There's part of me that thinks what Dmitri fears the most is emotional intimacy, hence his affairs and his opinion of women as the "lower race". He sets himself apart from them and objectifies them, even his wife he keeps at a "safe" distance. I think to a certain extent, that's why I feel his relationship with Anna has a fair chance of being real. Chekhov even says, "And only now when his head was grey he had fallen properly, really in love-for the first time in his life." Who's to say he can mantain that feeling, falling in love can be easy, it's mantaining that gets tricky.

That's true. Gurov's attitude towards women is somewhat of a protection, but his previous experiences with women also add in. He's married to a woman he doesn't respect, and he constantly has temporary affairs with women whom he doesn't really care for. All of this might erode Dmitri's respect for the opposite sex.

Ah but doesn't Dmitri address this specifically?

Dmitri doesn't seem to be too worried she'll come to her senses and perhaps with her, he will be lofty. Perhaps she'll give him the honor and depth of character that women have always imagined he had....it's a possibility anyway.

Yes, the women still love and revere him even after the delusions of his excellence are gone, but they are not happy with him. In fact, those are the exact words just after the text you quoted. This seems to be the way Gurov's love affairs go: the woman loves him but doesn't find any pleasure being with him, and Gurov finds the woman pleasurable but doesn't really love her.

maybe for the movie they've "fleshed" that part out a bit.

Ha, there was a lot of implied sex in Jude the Obscure. Even the most puny imagination should have been able to tell what the scene with Arabella and Jude wrestling towards the bedroom meant. I think we've all been "tackled" on a bed before.

[Janine]

Wow, that does sound hot. You right; I don't remember that part in the book, either. Was it still the same story--though with a little more nudity?

Well, there are some very explicit scenes in that film. The director and Kate were not shy about those scenes obviously. One is a birth scene. Other just her giving herself to him finally. The film is very visually pleasing and the acting is good. You should check it out. For once I don't own this one but my library has had the tape in a couple of times and usually I watch it feeling it does have some merit. I like the opening scene in the crow infested cornfield - that is very well done and grabs your attention right away.

Hmm, there should be a button with a symbol that looks like circle with a line down the middle. Or, it might have one with a circle with little lines around it--like a crude drawing of the sun. Those should be your brightness controls.

I went to Staples and asked the sales guy to show me how the settings worked, then returned home hopeful but still after changing them the monitor seems to be not much different. It is still quite bright on white pages. I did manage to figure out how to fix some annoying wiggly type and I think maybe now I need to raise the monitor a little higher - angle is everything with these monitors. It darkens it if you sit lower and look upward.
I might need to download a driver - I will look into that tomorrow. Me and drivers don't get along well....ho hum...too tired out now.

I'm glad you liked it. I haven't been in a particularly verbal mood today. The emoticons come in handy sometimes.

Yes, I thought it was quite clever and got the idea across. Haha

Normally I'd sympathize with you, but I think this time you're just getting lazy. The Chekhov story isn't any longer than the Lawrence story we're doing, and you haven't posted on that even. Although, your unbearably radiant monitor might have something to do with that, so I take it back. But, still, c'mon it's 16 pages.

Well, just beat a person up! I have needed a rest since about 6 months ago. I needed one badly and have been suffering burnout ever since the "Women in Love" discussion - that was really intense! Then most of last month I was discussing the L short story all by myself. Virgil has urged me to take a break. Actually, we all agreed in that thread to not do a story in August and then you came along and I felt abliged to discuss one. You are right - it is not looking hopeful for this month. Virgilposted tonight saying he has to re-read the story and so do I. I am nearly done the Chekhov story and promise to post something soon. Gee, give a girl a break, will you! I am aging and tired..., not to mention going blind on this white page from glare.
Hey, Quark, you have 179 posts and I have 2,571 posts - does that say something to you? And I joined in Oct, you in May, 2006. See what I mean about burned out!

[Quark]

Well, there are some very explicit scenes in that film. The director and Kate were not shy about those scenes obviously. One is a birth scene. Other just her giving herself to him finally. The film is very visually pleasing and the acting is good. You should check it out. For once I don't own this one but my library has had the tape in a couple of times and usually I watch it feeling it does have some merit. I like the opening scene in the crow infested cornfield - that is very well done and grabs your attention right away.

I'll have to check it out some time. It would probably be better than the To The Lighthouse movie which was just confusing and poorly acted. I think if they tried to do a Victorian novel, where the conflicts are external, it would probably come out better. In the Woolf remake, for example, they keep the dialogue the same, but without any of the narration that makes it meaningful. Mr. Ramsay says, "Yes, you are at N, but at that age I was at P". This would mean something if you had read the book; but, without that, you would be just confused. And, if the movie doesn't add anything to the story, but requires you to read the story, why should I watch the movie? I think the Jude movie would be more interesting because it would be a modern retelling of the novel--with actual and not implied nudity. You wouldn't have to know the story to watch the movie, and it might be slightly different than the real story anyway.

I went to Staples and asked the sales guy to show me how the settings worked, then returned home hopeful but still after changing them the monitor seems to be not much different. It is still quite bright on white pages. I did manage to figure out how to fix some annoying wiggly type and I think maybe now I need to raise the monitor a little higher - angle is everything with these monitors. It darkens it if you sit lower and look upward.
I might need to download a driver - I will look into that tomorrow. Me and drivers don't get along well....ho hum...too tired out now.

Is it true that if you keep poking an LCD screen with your finger you will actually break it? I'm curious to know whether I'm slowly wrecking my friends' and family's monitors.

Well, just beat a person up! I have needed a rest since about 6 months ago. I needed one badly and have been suffering burnout ever since the "Women in Love" discussion - that was really intense! Then most of last month I was discussing the L short story all by myself. Virgil has urged me to take a break. Actually, we all agreed in that thread to not do a story in August and then you came along and I felt abliged to discuss one. You are right - it is not looking hopeful for this month. Virgilposted tonight saying he has to re-read the story and so do I. I am nearly done the Chekhov story and promise to post something soon. Gee, give a girl a break, will you! I am aging and tired..., not to mention going blind on this white page from glare.

I didn't see the Women in Love thread. If you made some heroic effort to keep that going, then I can see how you might want a break. I was just noticing that we finally had some eager participation in the Lawrence discussion, and then you suddenly get reader's block.

Hey, Quark, you have 179 posts and I have 2,571 posts - does that say something to you? And I joined in Oct, you in May, 2006. See what I mean about burned out!

Don't change the subject.

Idril, I see the goofy avatar things is catching on. I probably won't join in, though. I'm one of those people, who, the second they do something cool, that thing stops being cool. I think I'm personally responsible for killing both Grunge and Alternative Rock. Once I got an IPhone, they made a new one just so that their product wouldn't be conflated with my personality in any way. This time, I'll just keep a respectful distance between me and cool.

[Janine]

I'll have to check it out some time. It would probably be better than the To The Lighthouse movie which was just confusing and poorly acted. I think if they tried to do a Victorian novel, where the conflicts are external, it would probably come out better. In the Woolf remake, for example, they keep the dialogue the same, but without any of the narration that makes it meaningful. Mr. Ramsay says, "Yes, you are at N, but at that age I was at P". This would mean something if you had read the book; but, without that, you would be just confused. And, if the movie doesn't add anything to the story, but requires you to read the story, why should I watch the movie? I think the "Jude" movie would be more interesting because it would be a modern retelling of the novel--with actual and not implied nudity. You wouldn't have to know the story to watch the movie, and it might be slightly different than the real story anyway.

Yes, the Lighthouse DVD is not a rousing film. It is a typical older BBC show - made for TV I believe; I did not think it was so poorly acted it just lacked so much especially if you read the book. Also film quality was dreadful.
The film is called just "Jude" and not "Jude the Obscure" but it does say based on the book. I think it was pretty good considering the calabre of the actors and I just like English adaptations that depict locations such as the University and also the countryside in Hardy's time. I hope you can find the film and view it soon. I think Ken Russell did that film but I am not 100% sure. I will look it up. He did do other Hardy, Lawrence adaptations.

Is it true that if you keep poking an LCD screen with your finger you will actually break it? I'm curious to know whether I'm slowly wrecking my friends' and family's monitors.

I don't know - the surface is pretty hard, but I don't think it is good to keep touching it; I try not to. You get a special cleaner for it, also. I don't think it is as delicate as I thought - maybe those were the plasma screens that one could not touch or it left a mark on the surface. I will ask my son about it - he works with electronics at his job. I don't have all the kinks out of the settings yet, but mostly it is near normal in appearance with some adjustments I did last night. Because it is wide-screen it does take a little bit of time to get used to. My type seems smaller and thinner to me but that might also be an adjustment I overlooked.

I didn't see the Women in Love thread. If you made some heroic effort to keep that going, then I can see how you might want a break. I was just noticing that we finally had some eager participation in the Lawrence discussion, and then you suddenly get reader's block.

Oh yikes it was long and it also was quite extensive and intense. I was worn thin after that discussion and yes, I took a very active role in posting. I even scanned some added information and commentary to add to the ending. Everyone seemed to learn a great deal but it was a very exhausting month.
Then, being in a certain flow I actually did fight taking a rest but now fatique has come upon me and tonight I am not feeling well at all. So I must take this rest for a little while. We certainly did have eager participation in Lawrence. I worked hard to get that thread going and keep going but now some of the young women in the thread are headed back to school so they will probably slack off a bit. I keep in contact with them. We all plan on reading "Sons and Lovers" in the fall....maybe October or November....not sure when yet.

Don't change the subject.

hope that was meant as a joke or amusing. I do have tons of posts and most are in the serious stuff, not the games.

Idril, I see the goofy avatar things is catching on. I probably won't join in, though. I'm one of those people, who, the second they do something cool, that thing stops being cool. I think I'm personally responsible for killing both Grunge and Alternative Rock. Once I got an IPhone, they made a new one just so that their product wouldn't be conflated with my personality in any way. This time, I'll just keep a respectful distance between me and cool.

Oh, no Idrilcaught it, too. I liked it first time when you summed up the story. I read what I thought was the last part of the story last night, but when I got to the end I said "there has to be something more"....I will go now and check to see if I just missed printing out the last part. How many pages are there to this story, Q?

[Quark]

I don't know - the surface is pretty hard, but I don't think it is good to keep touching it; I try not to. You get a special cleaner for it, also. I don't think it is as delicate as I thought - maybe those were the plasma screens that one could not touch or it left a mark on the surface. I will ask my son about it - he works with electronics at his job. I don't have all the kinks out of the settings yet, but mostly it is near normal in appearance with some adjustments I did last night. Because it is wide-screen it does take a little bit of time to get used to. My type seems smaller and thinner to me but that might also be an adjustment I overlooked.

Yeah, I think I was confusing the LCD monitors with the plasma ones. I think I can indulge in all the monitor poking I want with an LCD monitor, but it doesn't do the wave thing that amuses me so with the plasma monitors. Try poking your monitor, though, just to be sure.

Oh yikes it was long and it also was quite extensive and intense. I was worn thin after that discussion and yes, I took a very active role in posting. I even scanned some added information and commentary to add to the ending. Everyone seemed to learn a great deal but it was a very exhausting month.
Then, being in a certain flow I actually did fight taking a rest but now fatique has come upon me and tonight I am not feeling well at all. So I must take this rest for a little while. We certainly did have eager participation in Lawrence. I worked hard to get that thread going and keep going but now some of the young women in the thread are headed back to school so they will probably slack off a bit. I keep in contact with them. We all plan on reading "Sons and Lovers" in the fall....maybe October or November....not sure when yet.

Certainly count me in for reading "Sons and Lovers" later on.

hope that was meant as a joke or amusing. I do have tons of posts and most are in the serious stuff, not the games.

I think what I said came off a little more pointed than it was supposed to sound. I was trying to gently cajole you back to literature.

And, you were making me defensive about my 179 posts. It's 181, by the way.

Also by the way, What are games? I thought LitNet was serious work to be approached with a disciplined mind. Is this a game to you? Do you not take this seriously?!!?! Sorry. Sorry. It's getting pointed again.

Oh, no Idrilcaught it, too. I liked it first time when you summed up the story. I read what I thought was the last part of the story last night, but when I got to the end I said "there has to be something more"....I will go now and check to see if I just missed printing out the last part. How many pages are there to this story, Q?

Oh, no, don't get me wrong. I love the emoticons. I was just noticing that people are doing a whole muppet theme with their avatars, and I thought about joining in. Then I realized how powerfully uncool it might appear if I did.

[Janine]

Yeah, I think I was confusing the LCD monitors with the plasma ones. I think I can indulge in all the monitor poking I want with an LCD monitor, but it doesn't do the wave thing that amuses me so with the plasma monitors. Try poking your monitor, though, just to be sure.

Well I just touched it (I refush to poke it) and it did not make a wave pattern. I know the kind you mean - laptops are like that too - some of them. I am glad this is not a plasma screen - those look too touchy to me.

Certainly count me in for reading "Sons and Lovers" later on.

So glad - that would be great!

I think what I said came off a little more pointed than it was supposed to sound. I was trying to gently cajole you back to literature.

And I was worrying that I might have come off too pointed with you. That is really funny. I did not want to get you on my bad side. I did not feel well today so later thought what I had written might have sounded like a put-down. Sorry, I did not mean it that way at all. I was just kidding around with you.

And, you were making me defensive about my 179 posts. It's 181, by the way.

Same here - just my way of kidding but really I did post tons and I felt a need for some brain rest. Yes 181 now. Maybe too your posts are longer than mine although I have had my share of long posts before. Go see "Women in Love" thread. Lawrence is my author so I did not want for enthusiasm.

Also by the way, What are games? I thought LitNet was serious work to be approached with a disciplined mind. Is this a game to you? Do you not take this seriously?!!?! Sorry. Sorry. It's getting pointed again.

Games - I meant less serious threads like 'how do you feel today?' or 'movie scenes', etc --- not to put any of these down in, anyway....they can be fun and a good outlet. I sometimes check out movie scenes and Haiku. Basically though I came to this site to be involved in the more serious book/story/poetry discussions and learn something new and have the interchange with others I so missed having been out of school for many moons now. I do take threads like this and the L threads very seriously.

I have a question, Quark, - then the story we are reading (The Lady and the Dog) ends with the couple thinking the hardest part was yet to come? I don't have the exact quote. I really found the ending a little perplexing, if this is truly the end.

Oh, no, don't get me wrong. I love the emoticons. I was just noticing that people are doing a whole muppet theme with their avatars, and I thought about joining in. Then I realized how powerfully uncool it might appear if I did.

How funny -- I had not noticed. I will have to check this out.

[Quark]

I have a question, Quark, - then the story we are reading (The Lady and the Dog) ends with the couple thinking the hardest part was yet to come? I don't have the exact quote. I really found the ending a little perplexing, if this is truly the end.

No, there isn't any more story after that. Despite the fact that it's an abrupt ending, I don't think there was any other way to end it. There really isn't anything more Chekhov could add past that point that wouldn't ruin the story. The excitement of the story is created by the fact that you don't whether they will be successful in getting together, or whether they will be successful at being intimate. The reader is also confused whether Gurov is really hoping for love and redemption with Anna, or whether he's just after Anna for adventure. If the story ended definitively, then the questions would be solved and the story wouldn't be nearly so dramatic.

[downing]

Hello everyone!!!
I know you all- Janine- my old good friend , Quark-from the Yeats Reading Group( I hope you remember me ) and of course Idril from some Tolstoy threads.
I'd like to join this discussions, at least the one about ''Lady and the lapdog''. Can I? I have just finished reading the story and I liked it very much. This is the first Chekov writing I have ever read so please understand my unknowledge . I read all your posts about the currently discussed short story and also read your oppinions on different subjects. I'd like to express my oppinion on some of them:
- I love Dostoevsky, but I have read only The Brothers Karamazov- impressive book, one of my favourites.
- I am also a Hardy fan, but unfortunately I haven't read Jude the Obsure and none of his poems- just The Return of the Native, Far from the Madding Crowd, The Mayor of Casterbridge and Tess D'Urbervilles.
School starts on 17th September and I might not participate at the whole discussion. And another question:
Quark, you also joined the Lawrence short story thread(I also was in that one and debated two stories- The White Stocking not entirely, unfortunately), so you know the way in which Janine organizes the discussions: she copies the story and from there we start commenting key words and important paragraphs, the importance of the verbs.
I see that you don't have the same method over here, but I think we should have plan in our mind, otherwise we will get lost in all the symbols of the story. You choose the plan.
Please do not perceive me like a bossy person, I just asked you how will we comment the story.
I am sure we will all go along. This seems a really neat thread. By the way, Quark, thank you for re-opening it.

[Idril]

Idril, I see the goofy avatar things is catching on. I probably won't join in, though. I'm one of those people, who, the second they do something cool, that thing stops being cool. I think I'm personally responsible for killing both Grunge and Alternative Rock. Once I got an IPhone, they made a new one just so that their product wouldn't be conflated with my personality in any way.

Well, I'm rather attached to my Tolkien emblem but yet I long for change so this little muppet thing is a good excuse for me to make a change...but only for awhile, I'll be back to my emblem in a few days. It's muppet week, so I think you should join in for the next few days if you're interested.

And you didn't kill grunge and alternative rock, it's alive and well in the memories and iTunes libraries of many of us. I'm a huge grunge and alternative fan and I know there are several others on this board.

And back to Chekhov, yes, I think part of the charm of the story is that you get to fill in the blanks so to speak. I prefer to think that they somehow worked things out, that Dmitri really did find love with Anna...at least for a little while. I don't like endings to be completely happy so maybe they had their glory days but became so worn down by either their double life if they both chose to stay married or society's judgement if they both left their spouses and lived together.

I think these short stories are short enough that it's not necessary to pick apart every line, it's easy enough to find a section that someone refers to or to quickly read over a part that you may have skipped over. The problem with that is that everyone reads at a different level, these stories I can finished in a matter of minutes and then I move on, if something catches my eye while reading, I just mark it down so I remember to mention it later. Janine obviously got horribly worn down by such an intense study of the Lawrence book, I'd rather have an enjoyable discussion of a story I read than to get overwhelmed by details and in the end, end up burnt out.

[Quark]

Hi, downing, we remember you. By all means, join in. Did you just read "The Lady with the Dog"? What did you think? Don't be shy; I'll be forgiving of your "unknowledge" so long as you put up with my intellegencelessness. Don't be afraid to be bossy either. I think you're right right that we need some order here now that we have more participation. I do want to post some chunks of the story; but, instead of going from the beginning of the story to the end, I like to approach the story through characters and ideas. So the quotes could come from any part of the story so long as they pertain to that theme or person in the story. I'll post topics when there are lulls in the activity; but, if you have your own ideas you want to discuss, go ahead. And, if you have a thought, but can't remember a particular passage that supports it, post it anyway. Usually, I should know what you're talking about and can find some text that explains it.

I actually wanted to talk about setting and place. It's very important to the story, and it can go unnoticed if you're not watching closely. I'll post some important chunks of the story for discussion, soon. I wanted to reply to everyone's comments before I moved on, though.

Idril, I like the optimistic reading, too. Maybe I just want them to be happy at the end, though, because there is so much evidence to indicate that they are not going to be happy together. There are both societal problems and intimacy problems that separate them. Anna and Gurov are very insecure and lead widely divergent lives. Can sincere and genuine love bring them together? You would like to say yes. But, can you really?

[littlewing53]

hello all...i'd like to continue in the discussion as well...i was reading jude, but it looks like the lady and the dog is part of the current book under discussion...?...

[Quark]

I was looking at the settings in this story, and it seems like there are three locations where action takes place: Yalta, just outside of Yalta, and Moscow. Yalta, the scene of their adultery and passionate love, is a colorful, vibrant city. Anna and Gurov meet in gardens, and the smell of flowers is never far. Yalta is also very hot. In a typical meeting, Chekhov describes the ambiance as,

They walked and talked of the strange light on the sea: the water was of a soft warm lilac hue, and there was a golden streak from the moon upon it. They talked of how sultry it was after a hot day.

The color is often linked to the sense of variety that Gurov and Anna feel when on vacation from their spouses. The heat is both literal and sexual. For example, Chekhov summarizes the progression of the lovers' relationship as,

Often in the square or gardens, when there was no one near them, he suddenly drew her to him and kissed her passionately...the heat, the smell of the sea...He was impatiently passionate, he would not move a step away from her.

Outside of the town this heated, passionate love affair they are having cools down and becomes almost tranquil. The landscape changes dramatically. Chekhov gives us the view from Oreanda, just a little outside of Yalta:

At Oreanda they sat on a seat not far from the church, looked down at the sea, and were silent. Yalta was hardly visible through the morning mist; white clouds stood motionless on the mountain-tops. The leaves did not stir on the trees, grasshoppers chirruped, and the monotonous hollow sound of the sea rising up from below, spoke of the peace, of the eternal sleep awaiting us. So it must have sounded when there was no Yalta, no Oreanda here; so it sounds now, and it will sound as indifferently and monotonously when we are all no more. And in this constancy, in this complete indifference to the life and death of each of us, there lies hid, perhaps, a pledge of our eternal salvation, of the unceasing movement of life upon earth, of unceasing progress towards perfection. Sitting beside a young woman who in the dawn seemed so lovely, soothed and spellbound in these magical surroundings — the sea, mountains, clouds, the open sky — Gurov thought how in reality everything is beautiful in this world when one reflects: everything except what we think or do ourselves when we forget our human dignity and the higher aims of our existence.

Suddenly, the setting changes to this still and calm scene of universal peace and beauty. It seems like their feelings for each other change when they are affected by the view. They experience some more deeper or ideal sense of love. The words both "salvation" and "perfection" are in this paragraph, too. The more spiritual kind of love that they experience outside of Yalta might actually be redemptive. For whatever reason, the couple return to outskirts of Yalta and feel similarly:

Rather late almost every evening they drove somewhere out of town, to Oreanda or the waterfall; and the expedition was always a success, the scenery invariably impressed them as grand and beautiful.

Gurov comes back to Moscow and the setting changes to a bleak, monochrome world where everything is white and grey:

At home in Moscow everything was in its winter routine; the stoves were heated, and in the morning it was still dark when the children were having breakfast and getting ready for school, and the nurse would light the lamp for a short time. The frosts had begun already. When the first snow has fallen, on the first day of sledge-driving it is pleasant to see the white earth, the white roofs, to draw soft, delicious breath, and the season brings back the days of one's youth. The old limes and birches, white with hoar-frost, have a good-natured expression; they are nearer to one's heart than cypresses and palms, and near them one doesn't want to be thinking of the sea and the mountains.

Gurov experiences some happiness in Moscow. The comfort of familiarity makes him at least content, but there is none of the passion and variety of Yalta or the beauty of Oreanda around him in Moscow.

Oh, and littlewing, we are doing "The Lady with the Dog". While Jude the Obscure is a great book, and I encourage you to read it, this is a Chekhov thread. We're doing a story every month, and this one is "The Lady with the Dog".

[Janine]

Quark, I like your ideas on how to go about discussing the story. Now there is some type of direction and format we can follow and not just jump around all over the place. I am lost when that happenes. Starting with location and setting is excellent and I quite agree that it is important to the story and sets the atmosphere or atmospheres up and refects what is going on between the characters.
I know in the last Lawrence story, "The White Stocking" there were also several locations and defining sections to the story. The locations and time sequences divided the story nicely, effectively. Same with "To the Lighthouse" . I think these divisions also alow the reader some 'breathing room' in order to gather his thoughts on how the characters are responding to each other or the story is progressing. I hope this makes sense. I am writing it rather quickly as I have other things to attend to. I have not totally read all of the posts or your last one, Quark, but I certainly will. Now you have gotten my attention again.

I liked the story but the ending did have me a bit mifted. It seemed so abrupt to me. It was not the question of what would happen next but the fact it was sudden. I do think both lovers have their issues so I doubt the ending or true outcome will be positive. That would all depend on how much each could compromise for each other or change or alter within their own personalites in the coming months, years, whatever. I find the woman to be quite insecure and also very aware of her feelings of guilt. I am not sure if the man truly loves her or loves her because she is now the one who is unattainable, being also married.
I will write more on my ideas later on.

[Quark]

Starting with location and setting is excellent and I quite agree that it is important to the story and sets the atmosphere or atmospheres up and refects what is going on between the characters.
I know in the last Lawrence story, "The White Stocking" there were also several locations and defining sections to the story. The locations and time sequences divided the story nicely, effectively. Same with "To the Lighthouse" . I think these divisions also alow the reader some 'breathing room' in order to gather his thoughts on how the characters are responding to each other or the story is progressing.

Janine, you're right when you say that authors often use setting as part of their structure. They can break up the story into more manageable chunks for the reader by separating the action into different scenes. I think Lawrence might have been a little better at this than Chekhov. Chekov was good at using his backgrounds to reflect the action occurring in a given part. We saw in "Rothschild's Violin" how the river and trees mirrored Yakov's own life. In "The Lady with the Dog", this is done extensively. Colors, landscapes, and ambiance all combine to complete the mood that Chekhov is trying to generate.

I liked the story but the ending did have me a bit mifted. It seemed so abrupt to me. It was not the question of what would happen next but the fact it was sudden. I do think both lovers have their issues so I doubt the ending or true outcome will be positive. That would all depend on how much each could compromise for each other or change or alter within their own personalities in the coming months, years, whatever. I find the woman to be quite insecure and also very aware of her feelings of guilt. I am not sure if the man truly loves her or loves her because she is now the one who is unattainable, being also married.
I will write more on my ideas later on.

The story does end a little suddenly. I liked the way Chekhov ended "Rothschild's Violin" better. In that story Chekhov doesn't just explain the feeling of loss, but he makes us feel it with Yakov. The ending with Yakov playing the violin is very moving. In "The Lady with the Dog" Chekhov describes very fully the conflicts that Gurov and Anna are experiencing, but we don't get an ending where we feel it. Chekhov makes an attempt; there is the part at the end where Gurov clutches his head and asks, "How? How?". It is somewhat expressive of the agonizing confusion that we feel at the end, but it's not nearly as moving as in the other story.