how is double think used to change the nature of man??

[atiguhya padma]

What does understand yourself beyond words mean Cassandra?

If you can describe to me what that is, then I presume you don't understand yourself beyond words. If you can't describe what that means, then why should I believe you? How can you convince m eof your position, if you cannot describe it? If you can convince yourself without description, without language, then I think that must impose certain restraints upon your critical attitude to your self-knowledge. I mean how would you know something unless you could analyse it sufficiently enough to be assured?

[crisaor]

Originally posted by atiguhya padma
I mean how would you know something unless you could analyse it sufficiently enough to be assured?

No knowledge can be assured, no matter how much one tries. At best, you can hazard an educated guess, but no more. That's why Socrates said that the only thing he knew was that he didn't know anything.

Of course, is much easier to handle life and conversations ignoring this fact, but it's still true.

[Cassandra]

And ignoring the obvious flaws with this argument. I cannot explain and i don't expect to be believed (if only for my name ) I can analyse without words, people can be deeper than language.

[atiguhya padma]

Crisaor,

Being assured is not the same as being certain. I agree, there is no certainty. Still one can be assured.

[atiguhya padma]

I still maintain that understanding is not quite there, unless you can sufficiently explain what it is you understand, even if only to yourself. And to do that you need language.

I think Socrates was being somewhat facetious when he said that Crisaor.

[crisaor]

Originally posted by atiguhya padma
Crisaor,
Being assured is not the same as being certain. I agree, there is no certainty. Still one can be assured.
I think Socrates was being somewhat facetious when he said that.

Agreed. But I still think he was right, though.