On Fashion

[Alexander III]

So I just wanted to start a thread about the discussion of fashion, if anyone is interested. I figured on a literature site we would have everything from "couldnt care less" to full on enthusiasts.

Personally I am and will always be an aesthetic man - for me what counts and always will count is appearances. Unless the person is an intimate person in my circle, I will judge them 90% on solely appearances. I suppose I am not the only one who does this, so being aesthetically perfect has always been one of my passions along with literature.

I have always found that the way one dresses, is one of the clearest forms of communication about "who they are"

So anyone else an Oscar Wildean dandy like myself or am I a solitary china vase on these forums?

Also, I would think that people who have a passion for literature, art and music or rather any art form; would also be very attentive about their wardrobe. Personally I have a keen sense for beauty and think that any man who has a keen sense of beauty would aspire to make himself into a work of art - as only that which is beautiful is useful.

[MarkBastable]

Also, I would think that people who have a passion for literature, art and music or rather any art form; would also be very attentive about their wardrobe.

Well, I'm afraid you'd be wrong. I'm not merely uninterested in fashion - I despise it. My feeling is that any time spent in the design, manufacture or consumption of fashion items is a tragic waste of human life.

[Alexander III]

Well, I'm afraid you'd be wrong. I'm not merely uninterested in fashion - I despise it. My feeling is that any time spent in the design, manufacture or consumption of fashion items is a tragic waste of human life.

Surely that logic could be extended to art and literature - I mean there are plenty of people who dont understand fine art and thus consider it useless and a waste of human time.

[Emil Miller]

When I hear the word fashion I tend to reach for my revolver as many people I see walking about these days are a cross between Worzel Gummige and Coco the clown.

[Alexander III]

Ok I should have been more specific when I say Fashion I dont mean trends which change every 10 months and are for the masses - I meant style, Like mens style which over the last 100 years has had various tweaks and changes but largely its core remains the same.

When I say fashion I mean style I suppose

Not this!




Rather I mean this




Or this




I also am able to appreciate style from different times - the fashion is different but the core of style is the same





These are all images of men who have made themselves art. A few useless flowers, in cities of endless grey and usefulness.

[Emil Miller]

Fashion is designed to sell clothes that appeal to the sartorial integrity of the wearer. I say integrity with tongue firmly in cheek with respect to the idiocy shown below but the word has been so abused by the commercialisation of the 'let's all dress like proles from some dystopian fantasy' brigade, that all those individuals wearing shabby looking jeans have actually bought them as clothing marketed as 'Shabby Jeans'. I have only just discovered this and my feeling of sympathy for the downtrodden proles has evolved into one of sorrowful contempt.

[Alexander III]

Fashion is designed to sell clothes that appeal to the sartorial integrity of the wearer. I say integrity with tongue firmly in cheek with respect to the idiocy shown below but the word has been so abused by the commercialisation of the 'let's all dress like proles from some dystopian fantasy' brigade, that all those individuals wearing shabby looking jeans have actually bought them as clothing marketed as 'Shabby Jeans'. I have only just discovered this and my feeling of sympathy for the downtrodden proles has evolved into one of sorrowful contempt.

I think you missed my last post. I said that when I said Fashion I meant Style rather than Fashion in the sense as you and mark understood it. I even posted pictures to explain what I meant incase the words were not clear enough.

[Emil Miller]

I think you missed my last post. I said that when I said Fashion I meant Style rather than Fashion in the sense as you and mark understood it. I even posted pictures to explain what I meant incase the words were not clear enough.

I take your point, but how often do you see smartly dressed people as you describe them. Perhaps at Buckingham palace garden parties or similar gatherings or when politicians are posing for photo shots, but as soon as they get home they probably change into jeans, trainers and the ubiquitous baseball cap. In fact I recently saw William Haigh wearing one in an off duty photo. That's not to say that there aren't any men who follow your example, but unless one moves in that milieu, one is stuck with the proles.

[Rores28]

Now embarassed and a little nauseated at the erstwhile fashionista (or fashioniso I suppose) phase of my life I tend to have the same knee-jerk reactions as Mark B. But I've checked myself with the same question you pose about fashion being another facet of art.

I think to some extent the examples you've presented may be seen as such, but fashion in all its permutations is I think dissimilar from other art forms in a few ways.

Fashion tends for one to be very transient as others have mentioned and even in the style's you've highlighted, in that essentially no one would now where those styles unless for some historical reanactment or costume affair. Further no one (barring college students on weekends) would wear togas. We still read Hardy, and Homer though. We also still view and are amazed by paintings and architecture from centuries ago. People visit the Louvre and Greece and Rome in large part to see the history and art from long ago. Virtually no one wears the fashions of those times. I don't think this disqualifies fashion from being art or anything but I think it is a very different animal than most art. Don't have time now but I'll think of some more differences

[Ecurb]

Clothing provides warmth, and it can be beautiful. Michaelangelo's David doesn't look TOO bad without, however.

Like many arts that have a primarily functional purpose (architecture, furniture design, dinnerware), clothes are (I think) a minor art. Art for art's sake -- that's my vote! That's why painting, sculpture, music, poetry, and novels rule!

[OrphanPip]

I pay attention to my wardrobe, but likely with a different intent. It is hard to look like one dresses as if they don't care what they look like at all.

Jean Paul Gauthier currently has an exhibit at the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts.

[Alexander III]

I take your point, but how often do you see smartly dressed people as you describe them. Perhaps at Buckingham palace garden parties or similar gatherings or when politicians are posing for photo shots, but as soon as they get home they probably change into jeans, trainers and the ubiquitous baseball cap. In fact I recently saw William Haigh wearing one in an off duty photo. That's not to say that there aren't any men who follow your example, but unless one moves in that milieu, one is stuck with the proles.

I have to disagree with you - at my university a good portion of students are well dressed, I personally have gained the reputation of a "dandy" but there are many other dandies like me at my university and plenty more who attempt to learn and emulate me and the other dandies.

As to fashion being a minor art -

You say we read homer and Dante but no one studies fashion of the past. You are mistaken there, many art and fashion students study historical fashion trends, fashion just like literature is a endless series of influences and "movements" which react to each other and develop upon the history of the art.

As to fashion being utilitarian so it is less of an art - literature was also utilitarian it was composed to create and remember a cultures historic achievements as well as to didactically instruct in terms of morality. Naturally Literature has changed, much like fashion.

As now we read books which weren't written for the sole purpose of instructing us in how to live and epicsiing our culture, and our clothes don't consist of a large bear skin warped around our torso.

I would say that to most fashion seems like a "lame" art, just like to your average man Literature seems irrelevant and useless to him. The later man says Literature has no relevance and it useless to his life, due to ignorance of literature. It is much the same in regards to those who condemn fashion I think. Once again - I say fashion, I mean Style. 99% of all art is crap, what survives is the good. Same with Fashion, sure on a runway you might see a bloke in a garbage bag, but 50 years from know no one will be wearing garbage bags- on the other hand the mens "suit" is a tradition dating back to the Napoleonic wars. Over time it has changed, but minor alterations here and there - like the novel has changed since the late 18th century so has the mens suit.



By dam I feel like germany in world war I - fighting a war on two fronts and no allies in sight

[Alexander III]

I pay attention to my wardrobe, but likely with a different intent. It is hard to look like one dresses as if they don't care what they look like at all.

Jean Paul Gauthier currently has an exhibit at the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts.

Is that not the essence of the dandy, to be incredibly affected in private, yet the public image is one of nonchalance. Of course this is just as much about elegance and character as it is about the wardrobe.

[Emil Miller]

I have to disagree with you - at my university a good portion of students are well dressed, I personally have gained the reputation of a "dandy" but there are many other dandies like me at my university and plenty more who attempt to learn and emulate me and the other dandies.

I'm glad to hear it as students and sartorial splendour are not generally considered synonymous. However, don't be entranced by the siren voices of those like J P Gaultier or you could end up looking like this little sweetie.

[OrphanPip]

I don't even understand Gaultier's obsession with male skirts and kilts.

The exhibit got good reviews apparently:

http://www.mbam.qc.ca/jpg/en/index.html

I've been wanting to take a road trip down to Ottawa because there is a Caravaggio exhibit on loan from Italy at the National Art Gallery.