Swami Vivekananda

[NikolaiI]

I've known about and been studying Swami Vivekananda's teachings for almost a year now. Along with Alan Watts, often I find Swami Vivekananda writing much more eloquently than I could, exactly the same thoughts I had.

I was speaking with my friend's roommate yesterday, and he told me something of which I was not aware, which was how widespread and widely known and revered Swami Vivekananda is in India. My friend's roommate said he's considered one of, or the, greatest spiritual teachers of India.

Anyway I wanted to discuss not the person but his philosophy. If anyone has not read him, I strongly advise you to! And if you have, please share your thoughts! Vivekananda said once, "If you have to think, think great thoughts."

[Wintermute]

Hi Nikolai,

It would seem that Swami Vivekananda was a personification of what Christians call the golden rule. From the little I know of him I think that his philosophy is also compatible with mine to some extent. He apparently thought it more important to treat others with compassion and respect than to seek personal salvation. I agree with this. But as I recall, he also had some rather bizarre ideas about science and things like mental telepathy and ghosts.

What would you suggest reading first?

Cheers,
Doug

[NikolaiI]

Hi Doug,

Actually I had you in mind partly when I wrote this, becuase you mentioned how much you had read, contemplated, and so forth; and I wanted to share this person's name with you because he was the most brilliant teacher I've ever read.

I don't know anything about ghosts or telepathy, in his lectures and writings it is not mentioned. It is not the main point of his philosophy or important at all in relation to it.

I would suggest reading "Living at the Source," if you can get a hold of it. It contains selections from his writings and teachings.

As to what you said, that he said it was better to be compassionate toward others than to seek personal salvation, I do not know about this. It's certainly not what I would have said about him. His philosophy is broad and very deep. He taught renunciation as a very high trait. He understands things and describes them very deeply and penetratingly. I would not use salvation to describe Vivekananda's goal. Enlightenment, perhaps, though that word is seldom if ever used in his talks or writings.

If you read "Living at the Source," it may give you a better idea of what his philosophy was centered on. Mainly I would say it's about strength, purity and love, and how to live and fulfill those. Of course that's pretty much what every spiritual teacher emphasizes, and the question is, what do they have to offer? Vivekananda has a lot, for me, anyway, he is the best.

This is something he said (or wrote, I am not sure) which is a cornerstone of his philosophy.

"Herein lies the whole secret of Existence. Waves may roll over the surface and tempest rage, but deep down there is the stratum of infinite calmness, infinite peace, and infinite bliss."

So it's about understanding who and what we are; and seeking and realizing our source (soul).

[Wintermute]

Hey Nikolai,

I've just ordered Living at the Source from Amazon. I have Amazon Prime, so 2 days free shipping

I look forward to reading it.

Doug

[NikolaiI]

Hi Doug,

Oh cool! I don't think you'll be disappointed. I was thinking about it earlier and I wanted to say, of course I can't say you'll love it, but what I can say is that it really improved my life, really quite a lot. I hope you'll like it, and I look forward to discussing more with you.

Sincerely,
Alex

[Wintermute]

Hi Nikolai,

I really enjoyed Siddhartha a few years back and I'm looking forward to reading Living at the Source. It will be a change from the science fiction I've been reading lately. I will keep you posted.

Doug

[blazeofglory]

Vivekananda has always been one of my favorites, and of course a great reservoir of inspiration. I have been reading him for so many years. I never got tried of reading his works, and one of my friends got motivated to purchase the complete set of him.

[Wintermute]

I'm about half way through, "Living at the Source". And I must say, although he speaks rather cryptically, one gets the sense that there is some substance to what he's trying to say. I'm reading several other books too and I may need to just take a full day or two and focus on Living at the Source to get a better understanding. I do like his words though...

Doug

[NikolaiI]

Hi Nikolai,

I really enjoyed Siddhartha a few years back and I'm looking forward to reading Living at the Source. It will be a change from the science fiction I've been reading lately. I will keep you posted.

Doug

Siddhartha was what got me started on a spiritual path.

Glad you are liking it! I could discuss it endlessly. One thing he says is that one should only speak of what one has experienced. It's better to be an outspoken atheist than a hypocrite - and to speak of the soul if one has not felt it, or God if one has not perceived Him, is to be a hypocrite.

In other words, if my entire life has been mundane, and then I speak about extraordinary revelations, that is hypocritical.

[Pryderi Agni]

OK, my kinda thread!

I'm from India, and Swami Vivekananda is my spiritual guru. His works fill me with inspiration, and I'm glad to see that his followers aren't restricted to just us Indians.

P.S. Doug, why do you think it bizarre that Swamiji believed in ghosts and telepathy? He spoke from his own experience. His guru, Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa, was an accomplished yogi and his telepathic feats are legend among us. Hundreds of people have recorded similar testimonies of this.

The fact is, there are potentialities of the mental faculties that have hitherto been unexplored by Western science. Swamiji was merely pointing out the way for future scientific research. Did he not himself say, "Believe in nothing unless it be tested by your reason"? He wanted people to know that yoga can reveal such immense reservoirs of power from within us, but he himself later discarded these powers as distracting and inconsequential.

[NikolaiI]

Awesome, Pryderi! In many ways I would say the same. Now I am reading The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna and I am learning a lot. Reading his words is something very amazing. I thought it would be more like Swami Vivekananda. I got the somewhat mistaken impression that Sri Ramakrishna parmahamsa would be similar to Swamiji in his philosophy - but while there are similarities, Sri Ramakrishna is much more about bhakti - he mentions it on every page as the highest ideal. But I suppose that's going off-topic and we should create another thread if we were going to talk about Sri Ramakrishna.

About Swami Vivekananda I really, really love to discuss. Could you explain to me what Vivek means? Ananda of course means bliss, but my friend told me Vivek was something like patience / endurance, but he was not sure I think.

Swami Vivekananda was perhaps the most pure, brilliant, compassionate, and so many other positive qualities of any person I have ever read.

[Pryderi Agni]

About Swami Vivekananda I really, really love to discuss. Could you explain to me what Vivek means? Ananda of course means bliss, but my friend told me Vivek was something like patience / endurance, but he was not sure I think.

Well, sure; I'll be more than glad to . Viveka, of course, is Sanskrit for patience, but here it indicates the shade of enduring patience. I suppose in English I'd define it as 'lifelong calm'. The Stoics came real close to the concept of Viveka in this sense.

[NikolaiI]

He really disagreed with the Christian idea of guilt. In this way he's similar to Alan Watts, but actually Alan Watts came way later than him. They both make the point that Christian guilt is unsatisfying as a philosophy. Christian guilt says that one is here only on grace, that one is a fallen human being. But why are we fallen? Is it that our sins outweigh our virtues? No, it is arbitrary. Any sin, regardless of a completely saintly life, ascribes to one the condition of "fallen" and also means that one deserves to die. Deserves to die? This is a very drastic and heavy thing to preach.

We are fallen in a sense; but not like that. Vivekananda says, I do not lament my mistakes. Even my mistakes are part of what brought me here. Of course he says it more eloquently.

Nietzsche says also, "When you make a mistake do not then regret, for by doing so you add to the first stupidy a second."

It is not that Vivekananda was focused on guilt; but rather, particularly, the type that is pervasive as a feeling of not belonging, of being a foreigner, etc. Alan Watts says this exact thing as well, and very eloquently. And I am wondering if he has not read Swami Vivekananda.

The thing is that at core, we are divine. George Harrison says, every soul is potentially divine. Beneath everything is the divine soul, the Atman; who Vivekananda describes both as "Infinite calmness, infinite peace, and infinite bliss" but Who he also refers to as "that same Eternal, Ever Blessed, Ever Pure, and Ever Perfect One."

So on one hand you have the impersonal Godhead, which has both no form and unlimited forms; it is the infinite dimensional bird Douglas Adams wrote about. And on the other hand, you have the Atman as a Supreme Personality; as the master of all mystic power, the ever young, omniscient, all-attractive Sage whose body is the source of all worlds and universes.

For actually, any true prophet of God will speak of peace beyond peace, and bliss beyond bliss. One sees God only and the kingdom of heaven only. God is real to such a one. Like his guru, Sri Ramakrishna paramahamsa, Swami Vivekananda had many spiritual visions. So any genuine spiritual person is focus on and sees the light and perhaps guidance of God - they are not preaching about others' mistakes or insufficiencies. They see that God has become real, and that heaven is real, and therefore as they go among the people in maya, they preach that there is a greater, blissful, transcendental reality beyond maya.

So all this is the play of the divine. The source, God or Atman, actually belongs to us. It is our nature - why? because beneath all our false ideas and knowledge, even beneath what we think of as true; beneath our entire universe, there are more and more levels of existence, all of them within Atman. Our roots are in Atman. Atman grew us. But therefore we are the conscious aspect of Atman; in fact we are the highest part of Atman, the self-conscious part, and all the other parts. We're part of Atman, and the plants and the Earth and the cosmos is all part of Atman, so we are part of all the rest of it. Our roots are in Atman; and whatever we came from is also our nature. Thus, our nature is self-conscious knowledge, peace and bliss, and divine grace.

And further we can gain direct experience of this fact. It seems rare, and it is rare - it is valuable because it is rare. It requires of all of one's life, all one's effort, everything, to understand the highest truth - and then, one gives all of one's life, effort, and everything, sacrificed for this truth, and then one receives it - by grace, because the truth is greater than one's life. But it takes so long because every human on earth, just about, is going around mutually reinforcing the duality, which is illusion. Everyone is saying, "I, you, are individuals, and I, you, and all individuals desire things, and this is the way it should always be." But actually merely desiring anything is an impediment to finding the richer treasure of self-knowledge.

Money, acquisition, position, and everything else in material life is part of the dream of material life. None of it has any existence, it is all phantasmagoria, a dream. To wake up from this means to become free of all anxiety, attachment, and fear, and to be self-conscious as self-sufficient Atman.

No breathing, no physical training of Yoga, nothing is of any use until you reach to the idea, "I am the Witness." Say, when the tyrant hand is on your neck, "I am the Witness! I am the Witness!" Say, "I am the Spirit! Nothing external can touch me." When evil thoughts arise, repeat that, give that sledge-hammer blow on their heads, "I am the Spirit! I am the Witness, the Ever-Blessed! I have no reason to do, no reason to suffer, I have finished with everything, I am the Witness. I am in my picture gallery — this universe is my museum, I am looking at these successive paintings. They are all beautiful. Whether good or evil. I see the marvellous skill, but it is all one. Infinite flames of the Great Painter!" Really speaking, there is naught — neither volition, nor desire. He is all. He — She — the Mother, is playing, and we are like dolls, Her helpers in this play. Here, She puts one now in the garb of a beggar, another moment in the garb of a king, the next moment in the garb of a saint, and again in the garb of a devil. We are putting on different garbs to help the Mother Spirit in Her play.

(The Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda/Volume 5/Notes from Lectures and Discourses/Sadhanas or Preparations for Higher Life

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Co...or_Higher_Life)

But we ourselves are creating our own universe. We are continuous with the universe - we are not the microcasm, but the macrocosm, not the character, but the author. We are not caught in any fiction, but we are transcendental, and we are actually part of the source of reality. We are the source of our own reality. Not separated from reality, but an unconditioned part of making new reality. But these are only words, and no matter what we say, it's only philosophy. The real goal is to realize the Self by meditation, by practice. Again, it is to realize truth. That is the path of the saints and sages, and Swami Vivekananda presents it deeply accurately and accessibly, brilliantly and poetically, to the modern seekers.

[blazeofglory]

Vivekananda was a man of infinite passions, and at a very tender age he had mastered many disciplines.

His level of knowledge and the art of communication he had no comparison at all.

He was matchless.

[Pryderi Agni]

Vivekananda was a man of infinite passions, and at a very tender age he had mastered many disciplines.

His level of knowledge and the art of communication he had no comparison at all.

He was matchless.

Very true. Do you know what he was reading before he died? The Encyclopedia Britannica! He never completed it, though; it's preserved in the Ramakrishna-Vivekananda Museum in Calcutta now.