# Reading > Poems, Poets, and Poetry >  Dave Matthews has the best musician lyrics

## Sniper15

By far.  :Nod:

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## subterranean

ehmm compare to who??
The Doors, the Allan Parson Project, Pink Floyd, ..personally I don't think Dave Matthews is better..but since this is a matter of taste, you're free to say anything you want..

Cheers

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## Sniper15

You haven't heard enough Dave. I'm not talking about I Did It, Crash Into Me, or the radio stuff i'm talking about the album stuff not played on the radio. You should check out stuff like Seek Up, Dreaming Tree, #41, Bartender etc.

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## mono

Lyrics of Dave Matthews aren't bad. Like "subterranean," I tend to prefer Radiohead along with Travis, The Cure, and (randomly) most operas.

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## baddad

Sure, Dave Mathews has some great lyrics (my EX-roomate was a D.M. fanatic, but his redeeming quality was the fact that he was a Phish fan as well) but for originality it is tough to beat this great rock n' roll line: "Where do I go now that I've gone too far"?......Golden Earing........I just LOVE that line!!!!

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## dark_star

Surely it would have to be Nick Cave? How many universities has Dave lectured at anyway?

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## Sniper15

> Surely it would have to be Nick Cave? How many universities has Dave lectured at anyway?


Why the **** would Dave need to lecture? His tour has been the top five grossing the past 5 or 6 years.

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## bjortan

As has Britney's and the Backdoor Boys...

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## amuse

whew! backstreet, mate.  :Wink:

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## baddad

IIIIEEEeeeeeeeeee.......backstreet girls and the spice boys vs. dave M. 

......Oh please kill me right now cause this ol' heart caint take it....

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## bjortan

I'm just saying high-grossing tours doesn't automatically make you a great songwriter, that's all. Haven't heard much of Matthews - he's virtually unknown over here - but what I've heard doesn't make me want to put him in the same high ranking as Dylan, Waits, Cave, Young, and all those... let alone above them. But that's just me.

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## Sniper15

People tend to always give advantages to those who have been around longer. If you have listend to Dave he doesn't only write lyrics but he also writes: the guitar part, bass part, percussion, sax, piano and violin parts on songs. Writing a song for one instrument is hard let alone six. Backstreet boys and Spears don't tour every year like DMB does and the backstreet boys and spears lyrics have no deeper meaning their lyrics are pop crap. Dave' lyrics are filled with metaphor and carry much deeper meaning except for a few of the songs in his catalog. When nick ****ing cave sells out Giants Stadium or has a concert in Central Park with 100,000 people he can talk ****.

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## Isagel

Perhaps someone could enlighten me and post one of Dave Matthews songs? I´ve only heard a couple, and I don´t really now them by heart. Could you post your favorite song, Sniper ?

By the way - I thought Dave Mathews died this year?

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## bjortan

So what you're saying is that Nick Cave is a worse songwriter simply because he doesn't sell as many tickets in the US?

Which would somehow make Dave Matthews a worse songwriter outside the US, where he's all but unknown... but I digress. So post a lyric then.

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## Sniper15

Dave has two grammys i'm not sure if cave has any does he? When i get home this afternoon i'll post some lyrics.

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## bjortan

He doesn't have them for his lyrics though, does he?

This is a fairly pointless argument though; taste is taste.

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## Koa

aaah i read the whole thread thinking exactly what i wanted to say about it, and this last post spoilt it  :Wink: 

This thread is totally pointless... The best songwriter doesnt exist... Good ones do, the best one is subjective. I like a couple of Dave Mathews songs (I love 'The Space Between'), but I have other favourite songwriters... My taste, your taste, and noone can get offended about it. (Unless someone says that Britney or similar are good songwriters...)

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## Sniper15

Here's one Dave song:

Seek Up
Sometimes I feel like I'm falling
Fall back again, fall back again,
Fall back again, fall back again 
Oh, life it seems a struggle between
What we think what we see
I'm not going to change my ways
Just to please you or appease you
Inside a crowd, five billion proud
Willing to punch it out
Right, wrong, weak, strong
Ashes to ashes all fall down
Look around about this round
About this merry-go-round around
If at all God's gaze upon us fall
His mischievous grin, look at him 

Forget about the reasons and
The treasons we are seeking
Forget about the notion that
Our emotions can be swept away
Forget about being guilty,
We are innocent instead
For soon we will all find our lives swept away

Sit awhile with TV's hungry child
Big belly swelled
Oh, for a price of a coke or a smoke
Keep alive those hungy eyes
Take a look at me, what you see in me,
Mirror look at me
Face it all, face it all again

Forget about the reasons and
The treasons we are seeking
Forget about the notion that your emotions can be
Wept away, kept at bay
Forget about being guilty, i am innocent instead
For soon we will all find our lives swept away

You seek up an emotion
And our cup is overflowing
You seek up an emotion,
Sometimes your well is dry
You seek up a big monster
For him to fight your wars for you
But when he finds his way to you, the devil's not
Going--ha, ha 

Say, say 

Look at me in my fancy car
And my bank account
Oh, how I wish I could take it all down
Into my grave, I'd save
Take a look again, take a look again,
Take a look again
Everyday things change,...stay the same 

Forget about the reasons and
The treasons we are seeking
Forget about the notion that
Your emotions can be swept away
Intentions are not wicked,
Don't be tricked into thinking so
Soon we will all find our lives swept away 

You seek up an emotion
And our cup is overflowing
You seek up an emotion,
Sometimes your well is dry
You seek up a big monster
For him to fight your wars for you
But when he finds his way to you,
The devil's not going--ha, ha
Fall back again, fall back again, fall back again...

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## Sniper15

Last Stop
Fire The sun is well asleep
Moon is high above
Fire grows from the east
How is this
Hate so deep
Lead us all so blindly killing killing
Fools we are
If hate's the gate to peace
This is the last stop
For raining tears
War
The only way to Peace
I don't fall for that
Raining tears
You're righteous, so righteous
You're always so right
Go ahead and dream
Go ahead believe that you are the chosen one
Raining tears
Oh no
Gracious even God
Bloodied the cross
Your sins are washed enough
Mother's cry
"Is hate so deep
Must a baby's bones
This hungry fire feed?"
As smoke clouds roll in 
The symphony of death
This is the last stop
Scream
Right is wrong now
Shut up you big lie
This black and white lie
You comb your hair to hide
Your lying eyes
You're righteous, so righteous
You're always so right
But why your lie
Go ahead and dream
Go ahead believe that you are the chosen one
This is the last stop
Here there's more than is showing up
Hope that we can break it down
It's not so black and white
You're righteous
You're righteous
You're righteous
You're always so right
There you are nailing a good tree
Then say forgive me, forgive me
Why
Raining tears
This is the last stop
Here there is more than is showing up
Hope that we can break it down
It's not so black and white

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## Sniper15

Dreaming Tree
Standing here
The old man said to me 
"Long before these crowded streets
Here stood my dreaming tree"
Below it he would sit
For hours at a time
Now progress takes away
What forever took to find
Now he's falling hard 
He feels the falling dark
How he longs to be
Beneath his dreaming tree
Conquered fear to climb
A moment froze in time
When the girl who first he kissed
Promised him she'd be his 
Remembered mother's words
There beneath the tree
"No matter what the world
You'll always be my baby"
Mommy come quick
The dreaming tree has died
The air is growing thick
A fear he cannot hide
The dreaming tree has died 
Oh have you no pity
This thing I do
I do not deny it
All through this smile
As crooked as danger
I do not deny
I know in my mind 
I would leave you now
If I had the strength to
I would leave you up
To your own devices
Will you not talk
Can you take pity
I don't ask much
But won't you speak
Please
From the start
She knew she had it made
Easy up 'til then
For sure she'd make the grade
Adorers came in hordes
To lay down in her wake
She gave it all she had
But treasures slowly fade
Now she's falling hard
She feels the fall of dark
How did this fall apart
She drinks to fill it up
A smile of sweetest flowers
Wilted so and soured
Black tears stain the cheeks
That once were so admired
She thinks when she was small
There on her father's knee
How he had promised her
"You'll always be my baby"
"Daddy come quick
The dreaming tree has died
I can't find my way home
There is no place to hide
The dreaming tree has died"
Oh if I had the strength...
Take me back
Save me please

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## Sniper15

Come and see
I swear by now I'm playing time against my troubles
I'm coming slow but speeding
Do you wish a dance and while
I'm in the front
The play on time is won
But the difficulty is coming here 
I will go in this way
And find my own way out
I won't tell you to stay
But I'm coming to much more
Me
All at once the ghosts come back
Reeling in you now
What if they came down crushing
Remember when I used to play for
all of the loneliness that nobody
notices now
I'm begging slow I'm coming here
Only waiting I wanted to stay
I wanted to play,
I wanted to love you 
I'm only this far
And only tomorrow leads my way 
I'm coming waltzing back and
moving into your head
Please, I wouldn't pass this by
I wouldn't take any more than
What sort of man goes by
I will bring water
Why won't you ever be glad
It melts into wonder
I came in praying for you
Why won't you run
in the rain and play
Let the tears splash all over you

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## Sniper15

He wakes up in the morning
Does his teeth bite to eat and he's rolling
Never changes a thing
The week ends the week begins
She thinks, we look at each other
Wondering what the other is thinking
But we never say a thing
These crimes between us grow deeper 
Goes to visit his mommy
She feeds him well his concerns
He forgets them
And remembers being small
Playing under the table and dreaming 

Take these chances
Place them in a box until a quieter time
Lights down, you up and die 
Driving in on this highway
All these cars and upon the sidewalk
People in every direction
No words exchanged
No time to exchange 

And all the little ants are marching
Red and black antennas waving
They all do it the same
They all do it the same way

Candyman teasing the thoughts of a
Sweet tooth tortured by the weight loss
Programs cutting the corners
Loose end, loose end, cut, cut
On the fence, could not to offend
Cut, cut, cut, cut 

Take these chances
Place them in a box until a quieter time
Lights down, you up and die

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## Sniper15

Sitting still as stone watching - watching
People walking by you wondering why
No one ever stops to talk or thinks about it  if they ever did
What if God shuffled by?

One day we might see 
Doing not a thing
Breathing just to breathe
We might find some reason

But rushing around seems whats wrong with the world
Dont lose the dreams inside your head
Theyll only be there til youre dead
Dream

Lying on the roof counting
The stars that fill the sky I wonder if
Someone in the heavens looking back down on me  Ill never know
So much space to believe

Funny when youre small
The moon follows the car
Theres no one but you see
Hey, the moon is chasing me

I worried if I looked away shed be gone
Dont lose the dreams inside your head
Theyll only be there til youre dead
Dream

Walking through the wood
No cares in the world
The world has come to play
Shes all mine just for a day

Theres not a moment to lose in the game
Dont let the troubles in your head
Steal too much time youll soon be dead
So play

All fall down
It wont be so long now
Out of the darkness comes light like a flash
You think you can you think you can
Sometimes that is the problem
Dream little darling dream

Spinning on the wind
The leaf fell from the limb



But everyday should be a good day to die
Oh all fall down
It wont be too long now
Every fire dies
I find it hard to explain how I got here
I think I can I think I can
Then again I will falter
Dream little darling dream

Spinning on the wind
The leaf fell from the limb

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## bjortan

Thanks for posting those. I have to say though, that they don't really do anything for me - at least not on the page. But if you think they're great, good for you.

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## Sniper15

On paper you can't encorporate the music behind of the way in which they are sung, what gets emphasizes etc.

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## baddad

I have saying....somewhat exagerated, but not by much...."Bob Dylan Wrote Everything"!!

I like Dave Mathews, but he has a ways to go to be a world wide 'superstar', which I'm sure is the last thing on his mind anyway.......

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## subterranean

Bob Dylan huh...
well..

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## baddad

Si sub, mi amigo...

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## trismegistus

> Why the **** would Dave need to lecture? His tour has been the top five grossing the past 5 or 6 years.


I think dark_star's point was that if you're being asked to lecture at colleges, your work is seen to have _literary_ merit. Being a top seller is great and all, but Jon Bon Jovi could make the same claim that you're making here for DM. Was Bon Jovi a great lyricist? Even a good one?




> On paper you can't encorporate the music behind of the way in which they are sung, what gets emphasizes etc.


Well yeah but your post is about the _lyrics_. They must stand or fall entirely on their own merit, without the music or the vocal performance.

But as for the voting aspect of the thread, Fiona Apple does very nice things with language. She's got a great sense for tactile imagery and she enjoys all kinds of word play. The message doesn't seem to be the entire point for her. _How_ it's stated seems just as valid.

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## Sniper15

> I think dark_star's point was that if you're being asked to lecture at colleges, your work is seen to have _literary_ merit. Being a top seller is great and all, but Jon Bon Jovi could make the same claim that you're making here for DM. Was Bon Jovi a great lyricist? Even a good one?
> 
> 
> Well yeah but your post is about the _lyrics_. They must stand or fall entirely on their own merit, without the music or the vocal performance.
> 
> But as for the voting aspect of the thread, Fiona Apple does very nice things with language. She's got a great sense for tactile imagery and she enjoys all kinds of word play. The message doesn't seem to be the entire point for her. _How_ it's stated seems just as valid.


True but deliver of a lyric has a large effect on how it effects the individual. Passionate lyrics have not near the emotion if not delivered a certain way.

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## trismegistus

> True but deliver of a lyric has a large effect on how it effects the individual. Passionate lyrics have not near the emotion if not delivered a certain way.


Agreed but we don't judge the quality of a poem (or lyric) by the quality of the reader (or singer). If that were the case baddad would be in serious trouble (Bob Dylan having a truly miserable voice).

As I said, if Matthews is a great lyricist, his _words_ hold up even if they're sung by Britney Spears. Likewise if they're poor, having even Pavaratti sing the words won't make them better lyrics.

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## ImpFairy

"Words are flowing out like endless rain into a paper cup,
They slither while they pass, they slip away across the universe
Pools of sorrow waves of joy are drifting through my open mind
Possessing and caressing me.
Jai guru deva om
Nothing's gonna change my mind"

Now THAT is lyrical genius

Gotta love the John and Paul duo

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## Sniper15

Bartender-
If I go before Im old
Oh brother of mine please dont forget me if I go
Bartender please, fill my glass for me
With the wine you gave Jesus that set him free, after three days in the ground

Oh and if I die before my time
Oh sweet sister of mine please dont regret me if I go
Bartender please, fill my glass for me
With the wine you gave Jesus that set him free after three days in the ground
Bartender please, fill my glass for me
With the wine you gave Jesus that set him free after three days in the ground

Im on bended knee I pray Bartender please
Oh when I was young I didnt think about it,
But now I cant get it out of my mind
Im on bended knee please father please

Oh if all this gold, should steal my soul away
Oh dear mother of mine, please redirect me if this gold
Bartender you see, this wine thats drinking me
Came from the vine that strung Judas from the devils tree roots
Deep deep in the ground

Bartender you see, this wine thats drinking me
Came from the vine that strung Judas from the devils tree roots
Deep deep in the ground
Im on bended knee I pray Bartender please
Im on bended knee please mama please
Oh when I was young I didnt think about it,
But now I just want to run and hide
Im on bended knee Bartender please


Grey Street-
Oh look at how she listens
She says nothing of what she thinks
She just goes stumbling through her memories
Staring out on to Grey Street

She thinks, Hey,
How did I come to this?
I dream myself a thousand times around the world,
But I cant get out of this place

Theres an emptiness inside her
And shed do anything to fill it in
But all the colors mix together - to grey
And it breaks her heart

How she wishes it was different
She prays to God most every night
And though she swears it doesnt listen
Theres still a hope in her it might

She says, I pray
But they fall on deaf ears,
Am I supposed to take it on myself?
To get out of this place

Theres loneliness inside her
And shed do anything to fill it in
And though its red blood bleeding from her now
It feels like cold blue ice in her heart
When all the colors mix together - to grey
And it breaks her heart

Theres a stranger speaks outside her door
Says take what you can from your dreams
Make them as real as anything
Itd take the work out of the courage

But she says, Please
Theres a crazy man thats creeping outside my door,
I live on the corner of Grey Street and the end of the world

Theres an emptiness inside her
And shed do anything to fill it in
And though its red blood bleeding from her now
Its more like cold blue ice in her heart
She feels like kicking out all the windows 
And setting fire to this life
She could change everything about her using colors bold and bright 
But all the colors mix together - to grey
And it breaks her heart
It breaks her heart
To grey

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## Jack_Aubrey

No, Woody Guthrie does.

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## Admin

When I think of good lyrics I think of Pink Floyd and Pearl Jam and maybe Bernie Taupin (the guy who write's elton john's lyrics.)

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## Admin

Oh, and Jewel.

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## baddad

> Oh, and Jewel.


 I just read a book of poems by 'Jewel', "A Night Without Armor". Pretty good stuff, all in all...

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## Sniper15

Eddie Vedder is a pus#y. Remember how he said he would leave the country in 2000 if Bush won? Bush won and Vedder is still here. Don't talk big if you won't back it up. Grunge music is also dead.

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## mono

> Eddie Vedder is a pus#y. Remember how he said he would leave the country in 2000 if Bush won? Bush won and Vedder is still here. Don't talk big if you won't back it up. Grunge music is also dead.


Sniper15, though your message relates to music it also relates strongly to politics; please remember the forum rules of discussing no politics.

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## Sniper15

Just stating facts.

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## subterranean

Long as he keeps making good music, I don't mind him being a pus#y...

And Chris, totally agree with you there on Pink Flyod

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## Sniper15

Top.  :Smile:  ........................

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## Mark F.

Hmmm...Bob Dylan, Tom Waits, Lou Reed, Leonard Cohen & Zach de la Rocha would probably top my list.

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## samercury

Dave Matthews Band really has great lyrics esepcially in the song "Gravedigger" in the album "Some Devil". But right now I like the band Coldplay A LOT. 3 Doors Down is pretty good too =).

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## lukin

i think "sniper 15" is a tad bit argumentative here... and everywhere (you poor guy). I've just got into some dave matthews lyrics- space between... but more satellite and typical situation... but the best lyricist??... NO!! No-one knows him in europe really, but if he was the best... i think... he'd get a mention!
"impfairy", the first sign of beatles magic i've seen on this site- you ****ing genious lennon loving fiend!!!!
there are far more creative persons than Dave Matthews (he can't even name a band for chissake!!)

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## Sniper15

> i think "sniper 15" is a tad bit argumentative here... and everywhere (you poor guy). I've just got into some dave matthews lyrics- space between... but more satellite and typical situation... but the best lyricist??... NO!! No-one knows him in europe really, but if he was the best... i think... he'd get a mention!
> "impfairy", the first sign of beatles magic i've seen on this site- you ****ing genious lennon loving fiend!!!!
> there are far more creative persons than Dave Matthews (he can't even name a band for chissake!!)


So because he isn't big in Europe he loses credability? I'm sure there are a lot of artist in Europe who don't get much play in America but it doesn't mean their work is of less quality than that of an American artist. Australia has some excellent muscians that don't get acknowledgment from American or European listeners. Dave is still the best though. Take a listen to all the albums and you soon will see the truth.

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## Sniper15

Top  :Smile: ..............

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## Sniper15

Gotta top it

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## Idril

I'm a huge Dave Matthews fan, I think he's an outstanding lyricist, not many people do 'sensuous' as well as Dave but like most people on this thread, I think calling him "the best" is a bit of an overstatement. What he does, he does very well and should be given his due but each lyricist speaks to different people on different levels, he may be they best lyricist in your opinion but that's just what it is, an opinion, everyone has different tastes.

And I agree with the Pink Floyd statement as well, Roger Waters has an amazing talent for lyrics and you know who else is a good lyricist? Chris Cornell. I wouldn't put him on the Roger Waters level, but he doesn't get nearly the recognition he deserves.  :Tongue:

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## Sniper15

Top  :Smile: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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## rabid reader

I will just do one album of Pink Floyd to conpare with Dave Matthews, and let you determine who is the best here is _Animals_:

Pigs on the Wing (Part One) (Waters) 1:24

If you didn't care what happened to me,
And I didn't care for you,
We would zig zag our way through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain.
Wondering which of the buggars to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing.

Dogs (Waters, Gilmour) 17:06 

You gotta be crazy, you gotta have a real need.
You gotta sleep on your toes, and when you're on the street,
You gotta be able to pick out the easy meat with your eyes closed.
And then moving in silently, down wind and out of sight,
You gotta strike when the moment is right without thinking.

And after a while, you can work on points for style.
Like the club tie, and the firm handshake,
A certain look in the eye and an easy smile.
You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
So that when they turn their backs on you,
You'll get the chance to put the knife in.

You gotta keep one eye looking over your shoulder.
You know it's going to get harder, and harder, and harder as you
get older.
And in the end you'll pack up and fly down south,
Hide your head in the sand,
Just another sad old man,
All alone and dying of cancer.

And when you loose control, you'll reap the harvest you have sown.
And as the fear grows, the bad blood slows and turns to stone.
And it's too late to lose the weight you used to need to throw 
around.
So have a good drown, as you go down, all alone,
Dragged down by the stone.

I gotta admit that I'm a little bit confused.
Sometimes it seems to me as if I'm just being used.
Gotta stay awake, gotta try and shake off this creeping malaise.
If I don't stand my own ground, how can I find my way out of this
maze?

Deaf, dumb, and blind, you just keep on pretending
That everyone's expendable and no-one has a real friend.
And it seems to you the thing to do would be to isolate the winner
And everything's done under the sun,
And you believe at heart, everyone's a killer.

Who was born in a house full of pain.
Who was trained not to spit in the fan.
Who was told what to do by the man.
Who was broken by trained personnel.
Who was fitted with collar and chain.
Who was given a pat on the back.
Who was breaking away from the pack.
Who was only a stranger at home.
Who was ground down in the end.
Who was found dead on the phone.
Who was dragged down by the stone.

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## rabid reader

Pigs (Three Different Ones) (Waters) 11:26 

Big man, pig man, ha ha charade you are.
You well heeled big wheel, ha ha charade you are.
And when your hand is on your heart,
You're nearly a good laugh, 
Almost a joker,
With your head down in the pig bin,
Saying "Keep on digging."
Pig stain on your fat chin.
What do you hope to find.
When you're down in the pig mine.
You're nearly a laugh,
You're nearly a laugh
But you're really a cry.

Bus stop rat bag, ha ha charade you are.
You ****ed up old hag, ha ha charade you are.
You radiate cold shafts of broken glass.
You're nearly a good laugh,
Almost worth a quick grin.
You like the feel of steel,
You're hot stuff with a hatpin,
And good fun with a hand gun.
You're nearly a laugh,
You're nearly a laugh
But you're really a cry.

Hey you, Whitehouse,
Ha ha charade you are.
You house proud town mouse,
Ha ha charade you are
You're trying to keep our feelings off the street.
You're nearly a real treat,
All tight lips and cold feet
And do you feel abused?
.....! .....! .....! .....!
You gotta stem the evil tide,
And keep it all on the inside.
Mary you're nearly a treat,
Mary you're nearly a treat
But you're really a cry.

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## rabid reader

Sheep (Waters) 10:19

Harmlessly passing your time in the grassland away;
Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air.
You better watch out,
There may be dogs about
I've looked over Jordan, and I have seen
Things are not what they seem.

What do you get for pretending the danger's not real.
Meek and obedient you follow the leader
Down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel.
What a surprise!
A look of terminal shock in your eyes.
Now things are really what they seem.
No, this is no bad dream.

The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want
He makes me down to lie
Through pastures green He leadeth me the silent waters by.
With bright knives He releaseth my soul.
He maketh me to hang on hooks in high places.
He converteth me to lamb cutlets,
For lo, He hath great power, and great hunger.
When cometh the day we lowly ones,
Through quiet reflection, and great dedication
Master the art of karate,
Lo, we shall rise up,
And then we'll make the bugger's eyes water.

Bleating and babbling I fell on his neck with a scream.
Wave upon wave of demented avengers 
March cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream.

Have you heard the news?
The dogs are dead!
You better stay home
And do as you're told.
Get out of the road if you want to grow old.


Pigs on the Wing (Part Two) (Waters) 1:27

You know that I care what happens to you,
And I know that you care for me.
So I don't feel alone,
Or the weight of the stone,
Now that I've found somewhere safe
To bury my bone.
And any fool knows a dog needs a home,
A shelter from pigs on the wing.



This ablum plays off the Orwell metaphors for _Animal Farm_ except the Dogs are capitalistic business men, pigs are buerc ratics and the sheep are the helpless heard. I am a huge fan of Dave Matthews but he is nothing compared to Pink Floyd, Rush, Dylan, Young or anyone really from the folk rock movement. We of this generation have just been so pumped full of garbabage that in comparison Dave seems like the best song writer.

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## cuppajoe_9

No lyricist I've ever heard can touch Bob Dylan or Leonard Cohen.

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## hitchhiker

There very good I'll have to admit but best ever, I wouldn't go that far. He has great love songs but there not the best either. But I'm a huge dave fan.

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## Mark F.

> No lyricist I've ever heard can touch Bob Dylan or Leonard Cohen.


Well put. I'd add Tom Waits, Lou Reed and Elliott Smith to that list though.

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## caesar

I like Dave Matthews' music. But his lyrics alone do not merit being called outstanding. There are numerous artists who have written better lyrics. 

Bob Dylan, Pink Floyd are great lyricists. And how can any one forget John Lennon. I've taken my signature from his song "What ever gets you thru the night". They are among the few who have *consistently* written great lyrics. 

Sheryl Crow and Alanis Morsette are also pretty good at song writing. There are a few good songs by Macy Grey too which are of lyrical value. Aerosmith's lyrics also deserve kudos for their musical value and great rhyming. Think of songs like Amazing, Duces are wild, Janie's Got A Gun. 

I like the songs "Is that all there is?" by Peggy Lee (written by sombody else) and "Stones in the road" by Mary Chapin Carpenter for their profound lyrics.

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## lebby64

I think that a songs lyrical appeal does have a lot to do with the way it is sang in the song, but the singer does not have to have a great voice. With Bob Dylan, some may believe his voice isn't that great, but he includes a lot of emotion in his songs which really pulls the listener into the meanings within the lyrics.. Dylan wrote a lot about real life issues - social mostly - about poverty, innocence, racism, etc... so when you add his voice to the lyrics, it does a lot (for me at least).
_

 ...but DYLAN is pretty much AWESOME !!!!!!!!
_

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## lebby64

oh and pink floyd...waters has definately written some great stuff...
So, so you think you can tell heaven from hell, blue skies from pain? Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rain?....Did you trade your heroes for ghosts? (Wish You Were Here)

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## Idril

> With Bob Dylan, some may believe his voice isn't that great, but he includes a lot of emotion in his songs which really pulls the listener into the meanings within the lyrics..


Dylan doesn't have what would classically be called a 'good voice' but it works for him and I think songwriters know how to write for their own voices. I don't know that I would want to hear him sing other people's songs, you know, other than other folk artists. I think of Stevie Nicks and I know comparing Dylan with Stevie Nicks probably constitutes as blasphemy but I'm trying to make a point and she so perfectly illustrates it...she, and Lindsay Buckingham, know how to write for her voice and when she's doing her own songs, she sounds great but when she covers over people's songs, I think she sounds horrid! Her voice is really flat both musically and tonally and it becomes so painfully obvious when she's singing a song where the writers weren't taking that into account. I think Dylan is the same way to a certain extent. His voice is not pretty, it's not melodic but it doesn't really need to be to be effective when he's singing his own stuff but put him in a different context and I think he would be downright painful to listen to.

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## genoveva

This is a hilarious post and I can't believe I actually gave in and read it. Of course there is no way in heck that Dave Mathews is the best lyricist ever. Really, come on. I went through a big DMB phase as well (and got over it).

Yes, definately Pink Floyd, Bob Dylan, and Robert Hunter (Grateful Dead lyricist) top my list.

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## tcox

Dave Matthews is a great lyricist. Definitely underrated as the lyrics are often overshadowed by the thrilling complex and engaging music. Sniper 15, you're going a bit too hard I think. Dave has 2 songs with the most profound and insightful lyrics i've ever heard. You Never Know (which you did mention Sniper 15) is incredible but dave's best lyrics are in the song Pig.
I'm surprised noones mentioned that song with lines like...

Is this not enough?
This blessed sip of life,
Is it not enough?
Staring down at the ground
Oh, then complain and pray for more from above,
You greedy little pig
Stop, just watch your world trickle away
Oh, it's your problem now
It'll all be dead and gone in a few short years

what a guy. the whole song is amzing. dave is also capable of sensual imagery, anger, and just plain great love songs like where are you going.

When dave gets it right he gets it oh so right.

Other great lyricists include David Gray and Jeff Buckley.

The most underrated guy ever is Neil Finn. You might not be familiar with his work but he's the main man of crowded house.

"now im lying on a table
washed out in a flood
like a christian fearing vengeance from above
i don't pretend to know what you want
but i offer love..."

beat that

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## stlukesguild

"beat that"

Done:

"Desolation Row"

They're selling postcards of the hanging
They're painting the passports brown
The beauty parlor is filled with sailors
The circus is in town
Here comes the blind commissioner
They've got him in a trance
One hand is tied to the tight-rope walker
The other is in his pants
And the riot squad they're restless
They need somewhere to go
As Lady and I look out tonight
From Desolation Row

Cinderella, she seems so easy
"It takes one to know one," she smiles
And puts her hands in her back pockets
Bette Davis style
And in comes Romeo, he's moaning
"You Belong to Me I Believe"
And someone says," You're in the wrong place, my friend
You better leave"
And the only sound that's left
After the ambulances go
Is Cinderella sweeping up
On Desolation Row

Now the moon is almost hidden
The stars are beginning to hide
The fortunetelling lady
Has even taken all her things inside
All except for Cain and Abel
And the hunchback of Notre Dame
Everybody is making love
Or else expecting rain
And the Good Samaritan, he's dressing
He's getting ready for the show
He's going to the carnival tonight
On Desolation Row

Now Ophelia, she's 'neath the window
For her I feel so afraid
On her twenty-second birthday
She already is an old maid

To her, death is quite romantic
She wears an iron vest
Her profession's her religion
Her sin is her lifelessness
And though her eyes are fixed upon
Noah's great rainbow
She spends her time peeking
Into Desolation Row

Einstein, disguised as Robin Hood
With his memories in a trunk
Passed this way an hour ago
With his friend, a jealous monk
He looked so immaculately frightful
As he bummed a cigarette
Then he went off sniffing drainpipes
And reciting the alphabet
Now you would not think to look at him
But he was famous long ago
For playing the electric violin
On Desolation Row

Dr. Filth, he keeps his world
Inside of a leather cup
But all his sexless patients
They're trying to blow it up
Now his nurse, some local loser
She's in charge of the cyanide hole
And she also keeps the cards that read
"Have Mercy on His Soul"
They all play on penny whistles
You can hear them blow
If you lean your head out far enough
From Desolation Row

Across the street they've nailed the curtains
They're getting ready for the feast
The Phantom of the Opera
A perfect image of a priest
They're spoonfeeding Casanova
To get him to feel more assured
Then they'll kill him with self-confidence
After poisoning him with words

And the Phantom's shouting to skinny girls
"Get Outa Here If You Don't Know
Casanova is just being punished for going
To Desolation Row"

Now at midnight all the agents
And the superhuman crew
Come out and round up everyone
That knows more than they do
Then they bring them to the factory
Where the heart-attack machine
Is strapped across their shoulders
And then the kerosene
Is brought down from the castles
By insurance men who go
Check to see that nobody is escaping
To Desolation Row

Praise be to Nero's Neptune
The Titanic sails at dawn
And everybody's shouting
"Which Side Are You On?"
And Ezra Pound and T. S. Eliot
Fighting in the captain's tower
While calypso singers laugh at them
And fishermen hold flowers
Between the windows of the sea
Where lovely mermaids flow
And nobody has to think too much
About Desolation Row

Yes, I received your letter yesterday
(About the time the door knob broke)
When you asked how I was doing
Was that some kind of joke?
All these people that you mention
Yes, I know them, they're quite lame
I had to rearrange their faces
And give them all another name
Right now I can't read too good
Don't send me no more letters no
Not unless you mail them


"Highway 61 Revisited"

Oh God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son"
Abe says, "Man, you must be puttin' me on"
God say, "No." Abe say, "What?"
God say, "You can do what you want Abe, but
The next time you see me comin' you better run"
Well Abe says, "Where do you want this killin' done?"
God says, "Out on Highway 61."

Well Georgia Sam he had a bloody nose
Welfare Department they wouldn't give him no clothes
He asked poor Howard where can I go
Howard said there's only one place I know
Sam said tell me quick man I got to run
Ol' Howard just pointed with his gun
And said that way down on Highway 61.

Well Mack the Finger said to Louie the King
I got forty red white and blue shoe strings
And a thousand telephones that don't ring
Do you know where I can get rid of these things
And Louie the King said let me think for a minute son
And he said yes I think it can be easily done
Just take everything down to Highway 61.

Now the fifth daughter on the twelfth night
Told the first father that things weren't right
My complexion she said is much too white
He said come here and step into the light he says hmm you're right
Let me tell the second mother this has been done
But the second mother was with the seventh son
And they were both out on Highway 61.

Now the rovin' gambler he was very bored
He was tryin' to create a next world war
He found a promoter who nearly fell off the floor
He said I never engaged in this kind of thing before
But yes I think it can be very easily done
We'll just put some bleachers out in the sun
And have it on Highway 61.

Bob Dylan

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## Sniper15

Up on to the top love

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## x894565256

im going to have to go with the dude from the decemberists...
he just makes songs tell a story...
and i disagree about what was said about the musical conveyance before
i think the music behind the song is as important (sometimes more important) than the words
the music tells the story
the words fill in the details
which is why classical songs can have titles.

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## boye

John Frusciante of the Red hot chili peppers is the most interesting lyricist ive ever heard.........the stuff of neandra de les and smile from the streets you hold are incredibly poetic

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## cuppajoe_9

> which is why classical songs can have titles.


Most classical compositions were not named by the composer, but rather given nicknames later by a public which has dificulty keeping them straight when identified only by opus number. The Moonlight Sonata, for example, was never called that until Beethoven had been dead for some years. Beethoven called it Piano Sonata no. 14 in C Sharp minor, _"Quasi una fantasia"_ (Italian, 'almost a fantasy').

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## cuppajoe_9

Incidentally, I once heard a radio interview with a professor of English literature at Cambridge University (I've forgotten his name) who considers Dylan "the greatest living user of the English language." He, presumably, would know.

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## driftwood

bands like nightwish, theatre of tragedy, haggard, present good lyrics too

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## Sniper15

Bump  :Smile:

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## JBI

Dylan is good, but I like people like Leonard Cohen too, who started off as a post-modern novelist and poet, and has somewhat of a renowned literary career as well, but for songs:

"The Future"

Give me back my broken night
my mirrored room, my secret life
it's lonely here,
there's no one left to torture
Give me absolute control
over every living soul
And lie beside me, baby,
that's an order!
Give me crack and anal sex
Take the only tree that's left
and stuff it up the hole
in your culture
Give me back the Berlin wall
give me Stalin and St Paul
I've seen the future, brother:
it is murder.

Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing
Nothing you can measure anymore
The blizzard, the blizzard of the world
has crossed the threshold
and it has overturned
the order of the soul
When they said REPENT REPENT
I wonder what they meant
When they said REPENT REPENT
I wonder what they meant
When they said REPENT REPENT
I wonder what they meant

You don't know me from the wind
you never will, you never did
I'm the little jew
who wrote the Bible
I've seen the nations rise and fall
I've heard their stories, heard them all
but love's the only engine of survival
Your servant here, he has been told
to say it clear, to say it cold:
It's over, it ain't going
any further
And now the wheels of heaven stop
you feel the devil's riding crop
Get ready for the future:
it is murder

Things are going to slide ...

There'll be the breaking of the ancient
western code
Your private life will suddenly explode
There'll be phantoms
There'll be fires on the road
and the white man dancing
You'll see a woman
hanging upside down
her features covered by her fallen gown
and all the lousy little poets
coming round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson
and the white man dancin'

Give me back the Berlin wall
Give me Stalin and St Paul
Give me Christ
or give me Hiroshima
Destroy another fetus now
We don't like children anyhow
I've seen the future, baby:
it is murder

Things are going to slide ...

When they said REPENT REPENT ...

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## The Comedian

I've always liked they lyrics of Bruce Springsteen and Willie Nelson, mostly because they tend tend toward story telling. But, of course, this is a matter of taste.

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## rozreads

Ben Kweller is a young guy who is really good. I think he's a master wordster. And I'm really old school like several on here with Lennon, of course, my personal hero, and Pink Floyd. Dylan is unquestionable. A lot of Linkin Park is good, though I confess I don't know who writes in the band.

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## Big Al

I see all the usual suspects here - Dylan, Waits, Cohen, Cave, Lennon - but I'm a little surprised that nobody has mentioned Peter Hammill.

"Citadel reverberates to a thousand voices, now dumb:
what have we become? What have we chosen to be?
Now, all history is reduced to the syllables of our name -
nothing can ever be the same now the Immortals are here.
At the time, it seemed a reasonable course
to harness all the force of life without the threat of death,
but soon we found
that boredom and inertia are not negative,
but all the law we know 
and dead are Will and words like survival.

Arrival at immunity from all age, all fear and all end....
Why do I pretend? Our essence is distilled
and all familiar taste is now drained
and though purity is maintained it leaves us sterile,
living through the millions of years,
a laugh as close as any tear....
Living, if you claim that all that entails is
breathing, eating, defecating, screwing, drinking,
spewing, sleeping, sinking ever down and down
and ultimately passing away time
which no longer has any meaning.

Take away the threat of death
and all you're left with is a round of make-believe;
marshal every sullen breath
and though you're ultimately bored by endless ecstasy
that's still the ring by which you hope to be engaged
to marry the girl who will give you forever -
that's crazy, and plainly
it simply is not enough.

What is the dullest and bluntest of pains,
such that my eyes never close without feeling it there?
What abject despair demands an end to all things of infinity?
If we have gained, how do we now meet the cost?
What have we bargained, and what have we lost?
What have we relinquished, never even knowing it was there?

What chance now of holding fast the line,
defying death and time
Everything we had is gone?
Everything we laboured for and favoured more
than earthly things reveals the hollow ring
of false hope and of false deliverance.

But now the nuptial bed is made,
the dowry has been paid;
the toothless, haggard features of Eternity
now welcome me between the sheets
to couple with her withered body - my wife.

Hers forever,
hers forever,
hers forever
in still life."

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## Sniper15

Bump!!!

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