# Reading > Philosophical Literature >  true friendship?

## apple jiang

I had a small problem recently with one of my friends and this made me think about this:what is true friendship? Does it mean one side must put aside his principles and compromise with another?Does it mean one side must be humble to please another when he did something wrong and made another very angry and seemed would not forgive him? So, what are friends used for? why we need friends?  :Frown:

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## Regit

I have had similar feelings in the past. I guess your friend is of the opposite sex right? Anyway, it doesn't matter; the most honest advice I can give you is: forget this little problem and use your energy to focus more on your work, be it school work or whatever. Everything will just sort itself out. True friendship is hard to define, but putting aside principles for it, or giving it too much weight in your life sure is not how to preserve it. Or at least I think so. Hope you feel ok soon.

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## Broken

Plato's insights on friendship, from the _Lysis_:




> So it turns out that your father does not love you, nor does anyone love anyone else, so far as that person is useless. [] But if you become wise, my boy, then everybody will be your friend, everybody will feel close to you, because you will be useful and good. If you dont become wise, though, nobody will be your friend, not even your father or mother or your close relatives.





> But people who dont place much value on each other couldnt be friends.





> And is it possible to desire and love something passionately without feeling friendly towards it? It doesnt seem so to me.





> And if one person desires another, my boys, or loves him passionately, he would not desire him or love him passionately or as a friend unless he somehow belonged to his beloved either in his soul or in some characteristic, habit, or aspect of his soul.


My concept of friendship leans strongly towards Plato's theory that friends must in some way belong to one another for theirs to be called true friendship.

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## bhekti

> I had a small problem recently with one of my friends and this made me think about this:what is true friendship?


Don't know. Never think about it.




> Does it mean one side must put aside his principles and compromise with another?


Tolerance, not compromise.




> Does it mean one side must be humble to please another when he did something wrong and made another very angry and seemed would not forgive him?


Tell him/her where the wrong is. Then forgive him/her. Others are not better than we are just as we are not better than others.




> So, what are friends used for? why we need friends?


but it's not about use or need. We, you and I, _make_ friends.

 :Wink:

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## bhekti

> .... We, you and I, _make_ friends.


as well as enemies. But believe me, please, making friends is better.

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## apple jiang

Thanks for all your suggestions, my *friends*  
I was touched.

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## apple jiang

Thanks,Broken, your quotations are very useful to me.
Yes, I think you are right.
But the point is ,the one who didn't forgive is the friend of mine, whatever I do to make up.She apparently doesn't want me to be her friends any more.

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## Cristina

You know I've kind of seen friendship to be when someone brings out the best in you and you do the same for them. I just had a falling out with a really close friend and I was considering trying to patch it up but then I just thought of how they pretty much brought out the stupid in me and made me think less of myself so I decided not to. 

But sometimes people are just dumb and you have to see your distaste for them as something contingent on their being dumb so when they get over that you're around to be their friend again. At least that's the deal with my bestfriend. We've known each other since we were three but I hated her for a while when she went through stinky fazes, but if I had given up on her than...  :Eek2:  i'd be without the person who knows me best. Do what's going to be best for you if their friendship is best than that's so worth waiting out and if they're poopie well then enjoy life post-poopie person  :Banana:

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## Jay

The friend is the man who knows all about you, and still likes you.
- Elbert Hubbard, _The Notebook_, 1927

A true friend never gets in your way unless you happen to be going down.
- Arnold Glasow

True friendship comes when silence between two people is comfortable.
- Dave Tyson Gentry

You can always tell a real friend: when you've made a fool of yourself he doesn't feel you've done a permanent job.  :Tongue: 
- Laurence J. Peter

A friend is the one who comes in when the whole world has gone out.
- Grace Pulpit

Some people go to priests; others to poetry; I to my friends.
- Virginia Woolf

She is a friend of mind. She gather me, man. The pieces I am, she gather them and give them back to me in all the right order. It's good, you know, when you got a woman who is a friend of your mind.
- Toni Morrison, _Beloved_

The friend within the man is that part of him which belongs to you and opens to you a door which never, perhaps, is opened to another. Such a friend is true, and all he says is true; and he loves you even if he hates you in other mansions of his heart.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, _The Wisdom of the Sands_, translated from French by Stuart Gilbert

The tender friendships one gives up, on parting, leave their bite on the heart, but also a curious feeling of a treasure somewhere buried.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, Southern Mail, 1929, translated from French by Curtis Cate

Yes we are [friends] and I do like to pass the day with you in serious and inconsequential chatter. I wouldn't mind washing up beside you, dusting beside you, reading the back half of the paper while you read the front. We are friends and I would miss you, do miss you and think of you very often. I don't want to lose this happy space where I have found someone who is smart and easy and doesn't bother to check her diary when we arrange to meet.
- Jeanette Winterson, _Written on the Body_, 1992

True friends stab you in the front.
- Oscar Wilde

But oh! the blessing it is to have a friend to whom one can speak fearlessly on any subject; with whom one's deepest as well as one's most foolish thoughts come out simply and safely. Oh, the comfort - the inexpressible comfort of feeling safe with a person - having neither to weigh thoughts nor measure words, but pouring them all right out, just as they are, chaff and grain together; certain that a faithful hand will take and sift them, keep what is worth keeping, and then with the breath of kindness blow the rest away.
- Dinah Craik, _A Life for a Life_, 1859

A good friend is a connection to life - a tie to the past, a road to the future, the key to sanity in a totally insane world.
- Lois Wyse

There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
- Diana Cortes

The friend who holds your hand and says the wrong thing is made of dearer stuff than the one who stays away.
- Barbara Kingsolver

Friends are relatives you make for yourself.
- Eustache Deschamps

The essence of true friendship is to make allowance for another's little lapses. 
- David Storey

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## amanda_isabel

> I had a small problem recently with one of my friends and this made me think about this:what is true friendship? Does it mean one side must put aside his principles and compromise with another?Does it mean one side must be humble to please another when he did something wrong and made another very angry and seemed would not forgive him? So, what are friends used for? why we need friends?


apple,

true friendship is simply finding someone who brings out the best in you. compromising may be necessary, a lot especially if you're the illustration of 'opposites attract'. but in any relationship you have to compromise. try meeting halfway. even with 'being humble to please another' should be done, but it shouldn't be just one person doing so all the time. sometimes you need to step down for the sake of preserving the friendship and sometimes you have to keep your ground. talk earnestly with each other after a fight. 

think not only twice but three, four, five times if the frienship is worth everything. and if you decide it isn't and choose to end it, leave in good terms. never leave a fight unsettled.

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## rachel

to me dear friendship is pouring yourself out for the other person but NEVER comprimising the core of who you are-your principles, your reason for living. To do that is to denegrate yourself and to idolize the other which puts them on a pedestal that they cannot climb off of.

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## apple jiang

> apple,
> 
> true friendship is simply finding someone who brings out the best in you. compromising may be necessary, a lot especially if you're the illustration of 'opposites attract'. but in any relationship you have to compromise. try meeting halfway. even with 'being humble to please another' should be done, but it shouldn't be just one person doing so all the time. sometimes you need to step down for the sake of preserving the friendship and sometimes you have to keep your ground. talk earnestly with each other after a fight. 
> 
> think not only twice but three, four, five times if the frienship is worth everything. and if you decide it isn't and choose to end it, leave in good terms. never leave a fight unsettled.


 yes, I can see that.and I found thinking is really helpful. sometimes failure is much more useful and practical to me.  :Nod:

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## apple jiang

the way couldn't always be smooth, the process of conquring obstructions and hardship is not that easy and comfortable, but when I reflect upon it after a time, I find much more precious stuff than I expected,and maybe more than a success could bring to me.Suddenly I am dawned on, we don't need to complain anything and feel upset about anything,that's life, just appreciate it, just as Gump's mother said, who knows what we are going to get from the box?  :Tongue:

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## lucimi

> I had a small problem recently with one of my friends and this made me think about this:what is true friendship? Does it mean one side must put aside his principles and compromise with another?Does it mean one side must be humble to please another when he did something wrong and made another very angry and seemed would not forgive him? So, what are friends used for? why we need friends?


Actually,you needn't pay much attention to her actions.Maybe she just feel annoyed and unhappy when you said that to her.It just like that you do a unproper job at a wrong time.So you haven't capture a good result.I can understand your feeling.You are a good girl,I think.You always pay more attention to others'feelings.So during the daily life,I admire you.You can always keep smile in your face and do a favor to anyone who need help.
Yanjin is a pricipled person. She don't like people to see through her and have some comments to her jobs.Sometimes i feel her superior.Another is that she can't hide her expression.All happiness and unhappimess will be revealed on her face.So don't feel you are guilty,that is not your wrongs.

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## byquist

AJ in China: 

Friendship can be such a rare and special comodity that whenever you deeply experience even a portion of it (say 50% or more) then you ought to treasure it, nurture it. Friendship may be boiled down to communication, and that is an art to build and improve upon over a lifetime. Much of it is subjective, in that you are best occupied in watching how you treat others than how they treat you. Others may treat you like dirt, but you can still return kindness. Plus, you are your own best friend.

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## apple jiang

> Actually,you needn't pay much attention to her actions.Maybe she just feel annoyed and unhappy when you said that to her.It just like that you do a unproper job at a wrong time.So you haven't capture a good result.I can understand your feeling.You are a good girl,I think.You always pay more attention to others'feelings.So during the daily life,I admire you.You can always keep smile in your face and do a favor to anyone who need help.
> Yanjin is a pricipled person. She don't like people to see through her and have some comments to her jobs.Sometimes i feel her superior.Another is that she can't hide her expression.All happiness and unhappimess will be revealed on her face.So don't feel you are guilty,that is not your wrongs.


 thanks Lucimi, you are always the person who is waiting for me in the corner of life, when I'm sorrow, when I'm depressed, you like the breeze blow away all my sadness, I am so grateful that I have such a nice friend!  :Nod:

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## apple jiang

> AJ in China: 
> 
> Friendship can be such a rare and special comodity that whenever you deeply experience even a portion of it (say 50% or more) then you ought to treasure it, nurture it. Friendship may be boiled down to communication, and that is an art to build and improve upon over a lifetime. Much of it is subjective, in that you are best occupied in watching how you treat others than how they treat you. Others may treat you like dirt, but you can still return kindness. Plus, you are your own best friend.


 thanks,Byquist, yes, I think you are sensible.Hard times are lurking everywhere in our life,but I believe I can get through all of them,because at least I still have myself---best friend.  :Wink:

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## Fat29

For friendship to take root, it has to be sufficiently deep. A friendship can only grow deep if one is prepared to forgive, to trust again and to give, at every juncture of betrayal and test.

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## alshadai

I didn't find a true friend until I graduated college. Perhaps it is not like this for all people but I have always had a difficult time with friendship in the first place because I really dislike relational aggression. 

A true friend to me is one who will not fight over petty things and in fact can not find much to fight over in the first place. A true friend will only make sarcastic remarks when you do something they don't like rather than ruining your whole life for it. A true friend is someone who you never think it is a chore to be with. A true friend is always there for you as long as you deserve it.

I apologize, there is no literary insight within that merely personal experience.

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## apple jiang

> A true friend to me is one who will not fight over petty things and in fact can not find much to fight over in the first place. A true friend will only make sarcastic remarks when you do something they don't like rather than ruining your whole life for it. A true friend is someone who you never think it is a chore to be with. A true friend is always there for you as long as you deserve it..





> I apologize, there is no literary insight within that merely personal experience.


but I don't think so. I think what you said is absolutely good.all the great men's great words are based on their personal experiences,no one can be absolutely rational.

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## RobinHood3000

Friendship is when you don't expect them to return your favors and they always pleasantly surprise you.

Does anyone else here feel like "tolerance" and "compromise" are inadequate words? You can tolerate someone you absolutely loathe, it's just a little harder -- it's only your friends that you can celebrate. If you compromise, you both lose something -- if you synergize (I know, it's a pittance of a distinction, and "synergize" sounds silly), you both gain something.

I don't know why, but except in extreme cases, I don't find myself getting angry at people much, and particularly rarely with my friends. Make no mistake, they get plenty irritated with me  :Tongue: , but it's all in good fun (I hope).

I think part of the key to friendship is feeling strongly enough for them that you find yourself in their shoes more often than in yours.

Yes, I realize this post is very convoluted and random. If you were my friends, you wouldn't care  :Tongue: .

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## apple jiang

oh,yes,I have to admit that,RobinHood3000,your post is really difficult,especially for me,an English learner,but what I read into ,I think ,is the fact that you are a good person and ,a nice ,easy-going friend to make with,definitely.

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## miss tenderness

It's the happiest thing in one's life to have a true friend. Maybe some are not so lucky to have one true friend but there are a lot who enjoy the true friendship. It's just so sad to consider someone a true friend and then turns to be not. I remember my friend who was the closest to me during my days in college. I was so honest and open to her but then it shocked me that she tried many times,behinde my back, to hint to other friends that I'm not the person whom they think I am. Bad for her, each time she did that they chose to tell me and even some laughed at such an act .it's just so sad when you are trust a person and all of your days with him you were very very good and then just a bunch of compliments or grades make him change towards you First time she did it, I was kinda unsure about what I was told. I asked why? It was just a joke she said. Since our relation was strong I forgave her and forgot it all but then it happened again and again with stronger envious injuries which set me free from my dear friend and made me see clearer how can a person be mean sometimes for a person whom has never ever wronged him. Now you may blame me for this, dear apple, but she is still among my friend except that she does not have my confidence, I think that what she does is just something that she can't help it. Enemies s' injuries are easy on ourselves but our friends' are not. Anyway, this is how life goes, full of new experiences, we are not but learners. Hope that your prob with your friend is over now  :Smile:

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## Avalive

God intruduces friendship to this world, only to make us lonelier.

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## Geoffrey

Aristotle I believe wrote that friends should be facing in one common direction, moving toward a goal, the future, extc. While lovers should be facing one another. Something like that.

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## AllisonForbes

True friendship is a difficult concept to define, because true implies that which is not flawed. True friendship is close to the definition of love. Indeed, a true friend loves you. A true friend seeks the best for you and supports you while you bumble your way through life trying to achieve it. It is caring for that person when perhaps they no longer care about themselves or you. It is the willingness to extend and share part of who you are with that person. Just like love which does not depend on a mutual act, it is possible to still be a friend without having that feeling returned. There are many times when we reject a friendship, but that does not invalidate the other's friendship. It simply means we do not choose to participate in it.

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## apple jiang

> It's just so sad to consider someone a true friend and then turns to be not.


yes ,I absolutely agree with you,especially when I experienced such kind of person,I would have a great pain for a long time because every time I made friends with someone,I would treat him with full sincerity.



> Enemies s' injuries are easy on ourselves but our friends' are not. Anyway, this is how life goes, full of new experiences, we are not but learners. Hope that your prob with your friend is over now


thank you ,miss tenderness,my problem was solved by time, I am learning not to be too sentimental now,I hope things will go better,and you'll you will be happy with your friends :Smile:

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## i_rebel

Hi, apple jiang. Im a new member (thats less important). I read your message. Glad to here that your problem was volved so Im not going to give you any advice, but I would like to say something on friendship topic. Ill take advantage of this opportunity. 

Why do we need friends? Because humans are sociable beings and its impossible for them to live out of community. In humans relationships a very important place is occupied by a feeling, usually durable, called friendship. But how much credit do people give to this feeling and on what base these persons are chosen to be by our side in joy and sufferance?
We have been learning this friendship feeling since we were children. Actually at this age things are quite simple. The problem is when you get older. Things get complicated as people grow up. As they grow their confidence in people is smaller and smaller. Now, to win someones trust and friendship takes a lot of time and effort. Your claims are growing and you do not accept everyone around you. we have a word a man is known by the company he keeps. So that you put people throw some tests.

What feature someone should have to accept him as our friend? To be a reliable person? It is important to have someone to help you in a difficult moment, if not why would you need a friend. To be loyal? He has to be a person for you to trust, a person you could taulk to. O, it is important for him to be sensitive at your problems, because people usually need compassion. To be responsible? This proves that he is mature and that he can assume the effects of his actions/decisions. Outspoken person? Thats great. You know what he thinks and what he feels and its easier for you to know how to treat him. Wisdom and enquiring mind also count. He can help you whit your homework.  :Biggrin:  
Well its hard to say which one is the most important. Its very hard to find someone with all these qualities, if not impossible. But if I find someone that gets together some of these features I might try passing by all those small flaws.

Please excuse my english, its not my first language.

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## Virgil

Welcome, i_rebel. You have written a few interesting posts in your short stay here so far. Out of curiosity, what s your first language?

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## ALI ASGHAR JOYO

> God intruduces friendship to this world, only to make us lonelier.


God introduces in this world to know its philosophy,for it is not sexual relationship but sth u unique. Friendship does not make us lonlier but creates the spirit of patience and courage to face the hardships of life.

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## i_rebel

> Welcome, i_rebel. You have written a few interesting posts in your short stay here so far. Out of curiosity, what s your first language?


Thank you, Virgil, glad to discover this site. My first language is romanian.

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## dramasnot6

Friends, like all social connections, are a result of humans social need and dependency. we are not born solitary creatures, even though most of us grow to be able to supply all our "essential needs" emotional needs are best developed with support. and with our more advanced needs and minds, comes great suffering. perhaps its an adaptation to suffering is the need to make companions for comfort in times of need.

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## dramasnot6

and welcome i rebel!!

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## Eagleheart

True friendship- not to search constantly of various versions of yourself

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## Outlander

> I had a small problem recently with one of my friends and this made me think about this:what is true friendship?


Good question. I've had three close friends in my life. Two stabed me in the back, the other pretends he never knew me.





> Does it mean one side must put aside his principles and compromise with another?


Compromise without compromising the other.




> Does it mean one side must be humble to please another when he did something wrong and made another very angry and seemed would not forgive him?


Being humble to please another will only make you a doormat (trust me)
Do you forgive her for her anger? If you do then you can see past the childish pulling of the ponytail and are still her friend, If she can not forgive you then she lacked the love of a friend and was never truly one to begin with.

I have forgiven my 'friends' for what they did to me, but they will never forgive me, my many attempts and unreturned waves and smiles prove that.
You can not force forgiveness, you can not force friendship.
Sometimes your better off without friends, they are only foes in the making.





> So, what are friends used for? why we need friends?


Friends are loved ones that you can count on in hard times.
why do we need them? I wouldn't know, When I called in a friend in a time of need, I never got an answer.

I suppose for others the responses would be quite different.

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## Turk

"True friend is a mirror, when you look at him you see yourself, and when he look at you, he sees himself."

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## dramasnot6

> "True friend is a mirror, when you look at him you see yourself, and when he look at you, he sees himself."


Mmm, Thats a lovely quote Turk but i dont think it neccesarily applies to all cases of friendship. When i read it i thought it similar to the saying "If you want to know about a man, look at his friends"(i always thought it more appropriate to be "If you want to know about a man, look at his bookshelf" anyway :Wink:   :Tongue:  ) Except it makes the assumption that friendships are caused by very similar people attracted to eachother. Which is true in many cases, but what happened to "opposites attract"?

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## loe

Hello!

"The only danger in Friendship ist that it will end." (Thoreau)
"You should rather extinguish the sun than to dim a friendship." (also Thoreau, but I've read it in german translation, so I don't know if this is the exact original quote)

I lost friends some years ago, and it still hurts.
Although I think that the name "friendship" with regard to these people was wrong there is still a pain in my brain. I don't know wether it is because I've lost them or it is about the mistake that I've made to call them my friends.
In my opinion friendship is the full acceptance of a human being with all of his/hers qualities and also mistakes.

Greetings

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## Turk

> Mmm, Thats a lovely quote Turk but i dont think it neccesarily applies to all cases of friendship. When i read it i thought it similar to the saying "If you want to know about a man, look at his friends"(i always thought it more appropriate to be "If you want to know about a man, look at his bookshelf" anyway  ) Except it makes the assumption that friendships are caused by very similar people attracted to eachother. Which is true in many cases, but what happened to "opposites attract"?


Well it was just something i made up randomly. Since i'm not an important man i'd need to use quatation marks. So it looked like a wise philosoph said it.  :Biggrin:  Anyway. I agree with you. All quotes are not applicable in all cases. Just like Einstein said "Where's my eyeglasses?". You can apply this in cases you lost your eyeglasses, but you can't tell it when you lost your shoes. Am i no right?  :Yawnb:   :Wink:

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## dramasnot6

> Well it was just something i made up randomly. Since i'm not an important man i'd need to use quatation marks. So it looked like a wise philosoph said it.  Anyway. I agree with you. All quotes are not applicable in all cases. Just like Einstein said "Where's my eyeglasses?". You can apply this in cases you lost your eyeglasses, but you can't tell it when you lost your shoes. Am i no right?


 :FRlol:  so true, so true. You made it up? It was a very good quote, perhaps youre a famous philosopher in disguise? :Biggrin:   :Wink:

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## livelaughlove

While I do agree that friendship comes from seeing a bit of yourself in somebody else, it also comes from growing closer and realizing that even though you are different, you understand each others differences, while still embracing what you have in common (by the way, I'm talking about my bond with my girlfriends, not a guy, though it may still apply).

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## mir

i think that friendship is finding somebody who will always encourage you and beleive in you, and always be there for you. that's the deepest part of it. i have plenty of "superficial" friends, people i can laugh and joke with and have fun with but not really trust to stand up for me in the crunch. i have really low self-esteem, so my definition of a friend is somebody who i can never doubt.

i'm not sure if i HAVE any friends like that, but oh well . . .  :Smile:

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## kilted exile

Well, according to the fortune cookie I had earlier, "True friends ask for time not money"

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## sam96

> "True friend is a mirror, when you look at him you see yourself, and when he look at you, he sees himself."


hi turk,may be that's true i have a friend who thinks like me and is said to look like me(i don't believe that!!)but i always longed for one who is not like me at all and who accept me with my differences but that is really who i never found funny i found 1 who is like me but didn't find an opposite.

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## sam96

Why do we need friends? Because humans are sociable beings and its impossible for them to live out of community.

hi i rebel,y do u think that.sometimes,I'm much happier(for lack of a better word at the moment)when i am away from people and most miserable among them don't u sometimes think that a world without people even freinds would b the most perfect place ever.

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## fisherofmen

I think it is possible to be happy without out friends... for a while.

but I think there is something in the human heart that yearns for companionship. Just by looking at the world around us, I think it's obvious

Take, for example... several people who enjoy philosophy/literature coming together on some random forums, say online-literature.com
They come together because they yearn to talk with others about their opinions, and/or hear others opinions on matters that interest them. (at least that's why I'm, here)

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## miss tenderness

I agreeon the whole,fish but not this:"I think it is possible to be happy without out friends... for a while."

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## Bookworm Cris

Interesting thread... to me, a true friend likes you for who you are, with your flaws, qualities, and don&#180;t pass over his principles to please you. He keeps his integrity and encourages you to do the same. A true friend may or not help you in a time of need, but if he doesn&#180;t, it&#180;s not because he didn&#180;t want to, but often because he couldn&#180;t. A true friend shows you your mistakes, laughs at you and with you. And all of this is true from both sides down, if the friendship is really true.

I had very few friends in my life, and almost all of them are inside my family. I have a really true friend from college time. We separated (phisically) after a few years, and lost contact. Recently, we found each other (she&#180;s living abroad), and, after almost twenty years, the friendship is the same; we still like each other, and didn&#180;t forget each other in all the years we didn&#180;t talk. I think that&#180;s a real friendship, one that&#180;s really precious to me. 

I think it&#180;s a privilege to have a good friend, and I agree with someone (from the very first posts, sorry I don&#180;t remember who) who said, we don&#180;t use or need friends, we make them. We make them each day a little, and, like a plant, it needs care.

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## sam96

if u say so fisherofmen then r we ever completly independant?!!
by the way thanx 4 ur opinion :Wink:

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## sam96

> I agreeon the whole,fish but not this:"I think it is possible to be happy without out friends... for a while."


miss tenderness,i couldn't help but notice that u are very vague.and honestly i sometimes don't fully understand ur opinion.would u please please explain a little?

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## sam96

> Interesting thread... to me, a true friend likes you for who you are, with your flaws, qualities, and don´t pass over his principles to please you. He keeps his integrity and encourages you to do the same. A true friend may or not help you in a time of need, but if he doesn´t, it´s not because he didn´t want to, but often because he couldn´t. A true friend shows you your mistakes, laughs at you and with you. And all of this is true from both sides down, if the friendship is really true.
> 
> I had very few friends in my life, and almost all of them are inside my family. I have a really true friend from college time. We separated (phisically) after a few years, and lost contact. Recently, we found each other (she´s living abroad), and, after almost twenty years, the friendship is the same; we still like each other, and didn´t forget each other in all the years we didn´t talk. I think that´s a real friendship, one that´s really precious to me. 
> 
> I think it´s a privilege to have a good friend, and I agree with someone (from the very first posts, sorry I don´t remember who) who said, we don´t use or need friends, we make them. We make them each day a little, and, like a plant, it needs care.


my only friend from the family is my cousin the others r way older.but speaking of old friends.do u feel that old friends like childhood ones know u better? i mean i recently met a childhood friend(well,not a friend but we were in the same school even though..)i felt like she knew me better than all my new ones and that she is closer to me
u know i didn't mean that i undermine friends in any way with my post.

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## mitchi

Friendship, only after reading some of the postings does the word begin to carry a profound weight. How often we take it for granted?

I agree, that one can survive without friendship for short periods of time. I adore my firends, but at times, I crave solitude and time simply to think. However, then the need to socialize and interact kicks in. This thread has brought to mind the movie Cast Away with Tom Hanks. The need to socialize was so immense that he befriended a soccer ball. I will admit that even I cried when the innatimate object floated away. Friends are important. True, they can come and go. But that is natural. Each individual evolves independently and uniquely. Friends may evolve along side or independently. However, as one grows, one should not forget the value of a friend. The idea of a "true" friend, i think is subjective. IT simply depends on who one is and how one interacts with others.

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## Bookworm Cris

*Sam96:*
Long time friends may know you better than new ones; my friend is not a childhood one, we met in our twenties, but the "soul affinity" was so that we are still in tune today. But it can happen with childhood friends.
Not everybody from my family is a true friend of mine; actually, there are people I wouldn´t be friend of if he/she wasn´t a relative :Sick:  . Friends are chosen by your heart, not by blood or brain.
*
Mitchi:*
I do love solitude too, and need to be alone sometimes and just think. But a man isn´t an island; we need friends, we need people to talk to, or even to be silent along. I agree with you, each person evolves unique and independently from others, but the human soul needs to be in communion with another souls. After all, we are all "brothers", with the same desire to be happy. :Yawnb:  
BTW, I enjoyed Cast Away too... :Thumbs Up:

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## Tiresias

sorry, barging in with two cents and not reading all the posts so this may have been said before. a true friend is someone that you can trust in, and trust in something doesn't come along often, now does it? so cris, i agree that we all desire to be happy, and surely being able to trust another person (in terms of their integrity) is essentially what paves the way for this?

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## Bookworm Cris

Tiresias:

Yes, I believe that a true friendship isn&#180;t possible if one doesn&#180;t trust the other. And it requires time and care. There are many factors that help to build a true friendship, and in my opinion trust is one of them (affinity, respect, tolerance, patience and love are also important).

(more two cents of mine...)

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## sam96

cris:
does friendship sometimes become a liability i mean what if u don't recieve the same amount of love that u get?
i always loved my friends some of them say too much but even my accelerates when i c them and somehow i don't feel it's the same.

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## fisherofmen

> if u say so fisherofmen then r we ever completly independant?!!
> by the way thanx 4 ur opinion


lol forgot I posted in here  :Smile: 
Good question though. However, I think we can be independent and have friends, so I don't know if those two issues are extremes (ie. you either have friends or are independent)
If they are, they I would say no, we are never completely independent. What do you think?




> cris:
> does friendship sometimes become a liability i mean what if u don't recieve the same amount of love that u get?
> i always loved my friends some of them say too much but even my accelerates when i c them and somehow i don't feel it's the same.


NO! If you are in a friendship, and expecting love back, it's not a friendship. I think when you are a friend with someone, you care for them/etc etc, and moreover you love them without care of whether or not they love you back (almost altruistic-like).

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## Bookworm Cris

Sam 96 said:



> cris:
> does friendship sometimes become a liability i mean what if u don't recieve the same amount of love that u get?
> i always loved my friends some of them say too much but even my accelerates when i c them and somehow i don't feel it's the same.


and fisherofman replied:



> NO! If you are in a friendship, and expecting love back, it's not a friendship. I think when you are a friend with someone, you care for them/etc etc, and moreover you love them without care of whether or not they love you back (almost altruistic-like).


Sam96:
I agree with fisherofman; true friendship, as true love, does not depend on being loved back. Think of a mother&#180;s love for her children: many times they won&#180;t tell her they love her, or worse, they can (and do) say rough and crude things (the most common is "I hate you", said by teenagers :Bawling:  ). In some cases, they visit/talk to their mom once in a lifetime (to say so...). But the mother loves her children the same way..
Quoting Someone a lot wiser, do others what you wish they did for you. And if they don&#180;t, nevermind... keep doing it. 
And quoting someone more musical... "and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make"...  :Wink:  


True friendship = true love. The only difference is you may not marry a friend (but when you do, it&#180;s much better...) :Tongue: 
And you can, and you must, be independent from each other. Love and friendship have nothing to do with dependence. It has to do with respect.

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## sam96

guys u got me all wrong.i don't expect them to give me anything and i'll always love them nomatter what but if it happens that they need to get away or have a break i'll always b there for them.
Anyway,my best friend told me today"i don't know y u r my best friend u r so much better"she made me so frustrated i wanted to throw a punch.
p.s.
cris ur right marrying a friend would b so much better.
p.p.s.
don't FREAK OUT i don't believe in love anyway lol. :Redface:  .
by the way,u r a mother cris? :Smile:

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## jon1jt

Aristotle devoted two chapters of Nichomachean Ethics to the discussion of friendship, writing that friendship stemmed first and foremost from self-love and also in the mutal regard of others. friendship, for aristotle, was necessary---i.e. natural, for the cultivation of _virtue_ in oneself and the community. in a sense, human life is never satisfactory without some extent of civic involvement, because we are by nature social, and so aspire for the best in both.

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## sam96

interesting jon so u say that it's through our friends that we discover ourselves?

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## miss tenderness

> miss tenderness,i couldn't help but notice that u are very vague.and honestly i sometimes don't fully understand ur opinion.would u please please explain a little?


hey,Sam :Smile: 

I was commenting on the point that we can live without friend for a while. I can't. That's all Sam. what's your point of viw on this point?

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## Bookworm Cris

Jon1jt:
Interesting comment; that goes with what Jesus said, we need to love people; Dalai Lama also says that cultivating the virtue of compassion brings happiness to our lives; we must look to people with empathy and seek what we have in common with them; usually it&#180;s the desire to be happy. They want to be happy; so do we. Finding this points in common makes us more open to friendship, and hence, to happiness. 
Another thing Dalai Lama says is that a relationship must have a solid foundation to endure; a foundation based on the deepest nature of the person, in a feeling of closeness that has a sense of sharing and harmony. That&#180;s true for friendship and for love.
We may not be close friends to everyone, but this kind of compassion allows us to look to the world with kindness; it&#180;s better than waking up in the morning and hate everybody, because your world is a mess (how can someone be happy this way?...)

Sam96:
Yes, I&#180;m a mom for a long time; that&#180;s the best thing that happened to me; and fortunately, my two daughters are good friends of mine.

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## sam96

Miss Tenderness:
I can live without friends but recently i found out that i could only for a while.i found that i don't have to be in trouble or anything but just to know that no matter what happens they will be the wall that i lean back on when i'm lone,tired or just need to cheer up (actually when i realized that i called my friend in the middle of the night to tell how much she meant to me  :Tongue:  lol) but i thinkit's not just because we crave to socialize but because we need the sense of secuirty it gives us to know that something in our lives is constant.

Cris:
i think that anyone who would know u would want to be your friend  :Wink:  
hey what do u think of what i wrote above?(i like to hear your opinion  :Biggrin:  ).

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## miss tenderness

> Miss Tenderness:
> I can live without friends but recently i found out that i could only for a while.


Sam, imagine that you wake up one morning and realize that yesterday you have done something awful that made all of your friends abandon you,no shelter for a while,how would you feel in such a case?

nice?? :Biggrin:

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## sam96

Ah come on,how can that be nice.well u mean allof them all of them nevermind.i guess i would be very upset but what would upset me more would be the fact that i actually called them my friends and they would leave at any mistake and to think that someone who i loved would do this to me(well let's not :Sick:  ) :Cold:  
wait what exactly did i do??

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## Bookworm Cris

Sam96:

Thanks for your flattering comment :Blush: . It´s good to hear things like that. I think when you´re kind to people, sooner or later the world starts being kind to you. It´s not a "bargain" attitude, but just that being a kind person will make yourself feel good, and this good vibration shows up and people are attracted towards it. 
You know, a book that I read and made me much good is "The Art of Happiness", by the Dalai Lama and Howard C Cutler. They show how little things can change our perception of life, and how happiness is something we can have. It´s just a matter of embrace life with kindness and compassion, have the right mental attitude and train our mind to happiness. I recommend you read this book, it´s very good.

About your comment to Miss Tenderness, I liked it :Tongue:  . I too think that friends are a wall we can lean; friends give us the feeling we are not alone, there´s somebody that loves us, and may not be there physically to hold our hand, but can send a good thought that reaches our heart and warms it, even amidst a situation of fear and despair.
Actually, I think that´s true even for friends that are no longer in this world; my mom died and I have this feeling that, wherever she is, she´s sending me her love and I´m sending mine back to her, and this comforts me; she´s not gone, just is not at sight, but our love can reach one another. That´s a constant in my life.
Sorry if I´m too sentimental, but those are my beliefs and they make me feel good, not ashamed of them.

I think it´s good you told your friend how much she means to you; she probably liked to hear it. That´s something that lacks in today´s world: people don´t tell people they love and care. It´s a shame we don´t show our feelings, maybe when we realize it, it´s too late.

It´s good to talk to you, you´re a good person. Keep in touch! :Biggrin:

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## sam96

cris:
thank you for your suggestion about the book.i'll look for it and My comment wasn't a flattering comment i just stated the truth.

Now what's wrong with being sentimental afterall it is much better than hiding the sensitive person that we really are under masks of lies so that we can appear stronger while there is nothing weak about being sentimental.
besides,i really understand how much a mother means and it kills me to think that 1 day she won't be here so i just try to make her as happy as i can now.
and i totally agree about about what u said on embracing life it's true.
P.S
thanx for saying i'm a good person i try to be. :Thumbs Up:  .

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## Bookworm Cris

Hello Sam,

Thanks again; I agree with all you said; I think people should not hide their feelings; sometimes we have to do it, I mean, in a working environment, or with people we don&#180;t know very well, it&#180;s better go slowly and not show all of us at once. Later, when we feel we can trust, it&#180;s good to be who we are. When we talk about family and friends, it&#180;s quite different; with these beloved people we can feel at ease and be ourselves. That&#180;s the joy of being close to those we love.

About being a mother, wnen I lost mine I was already a mom; it hurt, but I think it would have hurt more if I had lost one of my children; who knows? Motherly love is something too deep to explain; you&#180;re right, enjoy your time with your mother, and keep it deep inside your heart, like a treasure. 

It&#180;s good to talk to you, maybe we meet again in other threads. I&#180;ll be around.

PS: are you a boy or a girl?  :Smile:  (excuse my snoopying)

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## sam96

cris:
i know what u mean exposure in the wrong place is a huge mistake.
it's nice talking to u 2. :Blush:  i hope to c u again.
and i'm a girl lol.

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## livelaughlove

OK, I'll chime in, if that's okay. 
I think my situation is unique, and I will share as much as I feel like I can but please forgive me if it is vague, it is a sensitive topic with me, but one that I like to discuss. 

My mom is a widow, and has trouble with kindness, compassion, and emotionally being there. As a result, I have hardened against her. In this case, I really turn to my friends for emotional fulfillment. Everybody in this world, I believe, just wants to be loved. I think there are different friends you can have, and you can love them for varying reasons, and even possibly love them varying amounts. My school friends are great, we always are together and we know each other so well. I know that they are always there for me, but I never really feel the urge to confide in them. But, that doesn't mean that I don't love them.

On the other hand, I have two friends whom I love very very very deeply because I feel like I have "won" their love, if that makes sense? They act as mother figures to me and give me the emotional fulfillment that I need in order to function and stay happy. These two, I would die for, no questions asked. They always lend a listening ear and tell me things that make me feel loved, stuff that I normally should receive from my mother. 

When I think about true friendship, both of these situations apply, yet I think about the latter situation more. Why, I wonder? Maybe because I feel much more spiritually connected to them. Also, part of the reason why I feel kinship to them is because I see bits of myself in them, and it makes us that much closer. 

Sorry to go off on my friends, but they're pretty special to me. Thoughts? Lovely topic, btw.

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## Bookworm Cris

Livelaughlove:

I don´t think your situation is strange; it seems that we find our true family in our friends, whenever the real family isn´t available, for one reason or the other. 

It´s sad that your mother had hardened her heart this way; it´s understandable, since she´s a widow, but not all people react this way to a great loss; anyway, she choose to do so; it´s her right. Maybe you could try, with much patience and understanding, to soften her heart a little bit. It may require much time, but being her daughter (I assume you´re a girl, if not, please excuse me :Biggrin:  ), your love will find a way to do it. 

As for your friends, I think it´s normal to have two "categories" of friends; the ones you like, but with whom you don´t share your most intimate thoughts and feelings, just chat, be happy together and be a good companion. That´s also a good friendship, and it´s worthwhile. 

On the other hand, there are those friends, who may be elder people, or younger, it doesn´t matter. What´s important is that with those friends you can really trust your secrets, "die for", as you said, and know that, whatever may come, you´re completely and inconditionally loved. That´s a precious gift, a treasure, and a friendship like that doesn´t happen often. You´re so lucky to have these two friends. 

It would be good if you had this kind of friendship with your mother, but think: they can help you in this endeavour to win back your mother´s love. It´s a mission of love, and their love can really help you. 

I think it´s normal you think more about this latter kind of friendship; spiritual connection is really the right word to it. Don´t worry, it´s good to be able to help with a kind word. 

Hope you´re allright, and that I could help.  :Smile:

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## livelaughlove

Bookworm Cris:

Thank You very much for your insightful comments. I do believe the love is there- after all, my mother shows it by giving me, materially, everything that I need- but it is the emotional part of it that she does not participate in. I can't even remember the last time she said "I love you" or "I'm proud of you"... and she is quick with her anger, often holding grudges for days at a time where she will just completely ignore me. 

Really, all I desire every now and then is a kind word, a loving word. Unfortunately, I think I have pretty much given up on receiving anything of the kind from my mom- I am hoping that once I go to college in a year and no longer live at home, our relationship will strengthen. For now, I just hang on, knowing my friends will keep me afloat.

I guess it has also been a blessing in disguise- without my mother's love, I have turned to those around me for that emotional fulfillment- and thus have experienced true friendship, truer than most people ever see in their lifetime.

Oh, and yes, btw, I am a girl!  :Smile: 

Thanks again.

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## sam96

hey cris:
This has nothing to do with friendship but it just came to my mind :Biggrin:  so i hope you answer.y do we like to hear i love u.sometimes i think that it's just because we like to think that to some extent we have power over someone(this might sound mean but as i used to b a mean girl :Sick:  i know that it's there) or does it give us a sense of security.
i dont' say it i think that it's use kinda wears off the word(i never even said to my mom but she knows i love her)!!

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## Poetess

> I had a small problem recently with one of my friends and this made me think about this:what is true friendship? Does it mean one side must put aside his principles and compromise with another?Does it mean one side must be humble to please another when he did something wrong and made another very angry and seemed would not forgive him? So, what are friends used for? why we need friends?


Are you sure you haven`t done anything serious??
I know people who, innerly, after time feel like rejecting their friends, and making new ones. 
Others, who discard their friends after being slightly hurt by them
it`s all psychological.

I, for instance, have friendship before alot of other things. But once a friend REALLY misunderstands and hurts me, I really can never feel friends to them! Yet, I would often be thinking of them.

So, not forgiving you must have a real big reason, or else it would be just a stubborn situation that forces your friend to catch-up to her leaving-you-thingy.

I suppose you leave the friend alone. If she really wants you back, she will definitely come after you - even after months or years.

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## Bookworm Cris

*Livelaughlove:*

Your story had touched me emotionally too... I think I can figure what´s like to hope and wait for a kind word that doesn´t come. But you´re right, it´s a blessing in disguise. There´s a saying that "when God closes a door, He opens a window". What may seem only a sad situation, may bring you love from wherever (or whomever) you wouldn´t expect. 

But don´t give up. She´s your mom, and (being a mom) I´m sure she loves you; she´s just too hurt to show her love; maybe for fear of losing again (sad, but happens). Keep on loving, and love will come your way.  :Smile:  

And keep in touch, it was good to know you and talk to you!


*Sam:*

Hello girl, 

Your comment made me smile; I think this "power-thing" may be true for some people, but not for me  :Wink:  ; the "security-thing" is more my type. To hear "I love you" is a great thing; it seems the world becomes pink and shining. If it´s true and sincere, of course. 

But I don´t know if it "wears the word off" :Biggrin:   :Biggrin:  It may be... 

Try telling it to your mom sometimes... she will like it. :Thumbs Up:

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## sam96

hey cris:
Well i can't say it to my mom even if i wanted to i'm a shy kid(baby would fit better but it hurts my pride :Tongue:  )and my world comes pink and shining every time i feel love even in a look sometimes you get this moment when u adore someone i mean realize it when a friend of mine looks at me like that.i actually feel my heart ache.
I may have said too much really BUT i like you(feel good??) :Biggrin:

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## livelaughlove

Thanks Bookworm Cris for all your help! It is greatly appreciated.

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## Bookworm Cris

Sam96:

I´m feeling good, really! Wow, my world is pink and shining now...  :Tongue:   :Tongue:   :Tongue:  

Livelaughlove:

You´re welcome! I´m glad I could be of help. Keep in touch, it´s good to talk to you. :Wink:

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## livelaughlove

Sam96- wow, I completely understand where you're coming from! Being extremely quiet myself, I find it really hard to come out and just voice my feelings/opinions, which sounds like the case with you as well. And you're right- there are looks just between friends that are so full of love that they make you ache! The best part is that you are a part of that love- and you can pass it on by giving those looks to people, no matter where you go. I adore going out and just smiling at people- especially when they smile back, it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling inside! 
So, though you feel like you cannot say I love you to your mom (and don't feel bad at all, you are not the only one... I am the same way), don't let your heart harden against the whole world, because then you will become a bitter person, which you do not want to do.

Just passing on some friendly advice from me to you.  :Smile:

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## sam96

Cris:
i'm glad everything is pink for u :Blush:  .
LiveLaughLove:
Sadly ur assumptions are corect.and i do give those looks back[actually i kiss them or hold their hand a little just to show them how much i love them sometimes(even though kisses make me all red)but i'm sure you'll get].
I do smile at people in the street and their smiles do give me a fuzzy feeling and i promise i'll do my best and try not to harden. :Smile:  

your advice is highly appreciated :Thumbs Up:

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## higley

I've always thought of friendship as being a relationship that falls into the category of being built on love. Different relationships have different foundations. Professional ones are built on grounds of benefits. Familial relationships are held by basic genetics but _should_ be built and supported by love, though unfortunately that doesn't always happen. Romantic relations are ideally an intricate but firm web of love, respect, and joy.

True friendship, I think, is something that maintains its original foundation of love, and isn't transplanted from that to something else, like personal benefits/needs. Like for instance, sometimes two people are friends because one is dominant and wants someone they can control, and the other is submissive and wants someone to look up to and elevate their own sense of self-importance. That is a relationship built on benefits and there doesn't seem to be any true affection.

Or maybe I make no sense.  :Tongue:

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## Stanislaw

> I had a small problem recently with one of my friends and this made me think about this:what is true friendship? Does it mean one side must put aside his principles and compromise with another?Does it mean one side must be humble to please another when he did something wrong and made another very angry and seemed would not forgive him? So, what are friends used for? why we need friends?



well...friends help you move...true friends help you move bodies.  :Biggrin:  

I think true frinedship just happens, and there is at the same time no one compromises, yet both compromise. It's like a mutual partnership, but not in a sexual sense.

friends are not really used, but in a sense are. they exist to help you emotionally of physically, and without friends, we would wither, humans are pack animals.

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## sam96

Higley:
I too think that true friendship is supposed to be built basically on affection and free from exploitation.
Sometimes even genetics r not enough for bonds between family.
and you do make sense(at least to me!!) :Wink:

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## Bookworm Cris

Higley: 
Of course you make sense; I completely agree with you 

Sam:
"Sometimes even genetics r not enough for bonds between family."

That&#180;s true. You may not be a true friend of everyone in your family, just because they&#180;re your relatives. But you may find true friends inside your family, and that&#180;s because your souls "matched".

Stanislaw:

I liked the Santa Yoda!... and your comment, too. It&#180;s said that we can acknowledge our real friends when we&#180;re in trouble... "a friend in need is a friend indeed"; I think there&#180;s a truth in it.

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## sam96

Cris:
And when our souls do match.We can spend a lot of time apart and not worry about if we'lll meet again. :Smile:

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## Bookworm Cris

That&#180;s it, Sam. 
The only thing we carry with us from this life is what&#180;s inside our hearts; while we live, that&#180;s also true. Even when we&#180;re distant from our loved ones, what&#180;s inside our hearts goes with us and comforts us. Distance doesn&#180;t kill true feelings; but closeness can strenght them.

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## sam96

Cris:
And that keeps us here even after we're gone.The love in our friend's and family's hearts.

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## brainstrain

> Cris:
> And the only thing that keeps us here even after we're gone is the love in our friend's and family's hearts.


So after our family and friend die there's nothing left of us in this world? I hope that's not what you meant.

I believe that even after people have forgotten about us, we live on through our actions. Even the smallest good deed can affect people hundreds of years in the future. I think the movie "The Butterfly Affect" had something to do with that concept, but that was a weird movie  :FRlol:

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## sam96

Brainstrain:
You do realize that that has to be one unlucky family for all of them will die.But how can a small good deed live out through hundreds of years(do u mean others would do it if so it's not the person who lived it's the deed?)and years of changes.
I saw butterfly effect and i think it's a weird movie too.

P.S:
were you following the thread in silence or something?

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## Bookworm Cris

Brainstrain:

I believe what you mean is that a good action remains in this world, even if the person who did it is not here anymore. Right? 

To me, that´s true; not taking religion into account, let´s think about good vibes and good thoughts; they spread from the person who thought to everyone around (just as their opposite, bad vibes and feelings like envy, hate,..); good actions carry in themselves good thoughts and vibrations.

According to the Eastern beliefs (I´m thinking in Hinduism), the whole universe is made of vibrations, energy that becomes matter through a divine wish (I dont know if I can explain it well). 

By this point of view, our deeds cause actions and reactions, that may be material and/or vibrational. And their consequences go beyond what we can see in short term. That´s the Karma law.

And that´s the idea behind The Butterfly Effect; weird movie really. It has a good idea, badly developed.

----------

