# Reading > General Literature >  Alcohol and Literature

## Emil Miller

There have been a number of novels written where alcohol plays a significant part in the story. What are the Forum's members' views on this.? 
Incidentally, this thread has been posited whilst under the influence of alcohol but, even so, I look forward to your replies.

----------


## Dark Muse

I think in a lot of cases the types of stories that alcohol appears to have a prominent role are stories that deal with some sort of crisis, or tragedy, either physically or emotionally, and perhaps sometimes a little bit of both. They are also often stories that are critiquing the current state of society. 

The use of alcohol within the stories provide a numbing effect for the characters, something that fills the void within them to replace what they feel is missing, weather it be an emotional void, or a metaphor for how shallow society and people have become. It is a coping mechanism. And in many cases the authors writing the story probably have also personal struggled with alcohol to try and help overcome some of their own experiences. 

Heavy drinking in books is usually paired with something bring wrong or "broken" within the characters or the society or both. In order to try and forget or not have to confront the loss of true substance and to have to avoid facing the realities.

----------


## LitNetIsGreat

Great thread title Brian, two of my favourite subjects together in one place!

The first one that comes to mind is _Whisky Galore_. Then you can add the beat writers especially Kerouac, Hemingway, Bukowski - oh what's that one where that guy gets hammered and sells his typewriter, damn? Help.

Wilde was a big drinker but that maybe wasn't expressed in his work so much. Falstaff in Shakespeare springs to mind next, then that American writer, what's he called??? Raymond Chandler, yes Raymond Chandler, there are so many more I have no doubt, though I am out of time - BLEEP.

----------


## Virgil

> There have been a number of novels written where alcohol plays a significant part in the story. What are the Forum's members' views on this.? 
> Incidentally, this thread has been posited whilst under the influence of alcohol but, even so, I look forward to your replies.


This is a great question. I don't think I have an opinion one way or the other. It reflects the culture of the time and place and in some circumstances contains a thematic purpose. Though I suspect that writers probably indulged more than the average person. Certanly Hemingway's work is just loaded with booze.

----------


## Oniw17

Perhaps novels are a representation of real life and alcohol plays a significant role in real life. Or maybe not, just speculating idly.

----------


## hhc

Sure, there's lots of great and even more good books about alcohol, and some have even been written under the influence of it. I can't help picturing Quentin Compson of The Sound and The Fury drinking his susprilluh...

Anyway, truth is (I think) the percentage of alcoholic writers is much higher... 
I wonder what that means?????

----------


## PoeticPassions

There was a pretty good blog I read in the _New York Times_ a while back, titled "Under the Literary Influence" that sort of touches on this topic of alcohol and literature, and the author's addiction to writers that were alcoholics... it's not completely what Brian is asking here, but an entertaining read, for those who are interested:

http://proof.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/...uence/#more-91

----------


## Lokasenna

It's an interesting thought.

I suppose alcohol has often been used to demonstrate vice, both in a comic and tragic way. Though my knowledge of modern literature is rather lacking, Falstaff would certainly fit both, and Chaucer's Miller is a fine comic creation.

----------


## Sapphire

> Perhaps novels are a representation of real life and alcohol plays a significant role in real life.


I tend to go along with this view. Drinking alcohol is something which happens in realy life, to keep it out of literature would be quite peculiar. 

It would be an interesting thing if authors wouldn't drink; if there would be a logical connection between drinking and alcohol - either in a positive or negative way. 

1. A person can't drink alcohol and write literature (premise)
2. This person has written literature (premise)
3. He/She wasn't a drinker (conclusion)
_Something goes wrong... I think (yes, I know my first premise isn't true). 1. A never with B, 2. B, 3. thus not A. Hmm... seems sound..._ 

To search for a connection between drinking alcohol and writing literature is difficult. I don't think there are people on this planet who think "I want to write a book, lets drink - that will work". Alcohol might make a person "try new stuff" though, and thus (finally) get them started on writing a book. Or it might be that the intoxitated mind is more open to creation  :Smile: 

Just spilling my thoughts here. 

If one says alcohol and books, the first thing that comes to my mind is "the Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy" (Douglas Adams), in which drinking beer makes it possible for the body to relax enough and to travel in space  :Biggrin:  Without it, the book would have stopped after the first chapter  :Tongue:  And 42 wouldn't be the answer to everything  :Wink:

----------


## Emil Miller

> Great thread title Brian, two of my favourite subjects together in one place!
> 
> The first one that comes to mind is _Whisky Galore_. Then you can add the beat writers especially Kerouac, Hemingway, Bukowski - oh what's that one where that guy gets hammered and sells his typewriter, damn? Help.
> 
> Wilde was a big drinker but that maybe wasn't expressed in his work so much. Falstaff in Shakespeare springs to mind next, then that American writer, what's he called??? Raymond Chandler, yes Raymond Chandler, there are so many more I have no doubt, though I am out of time - BLEEP.


The novel in which the main character sells his typewriter is called The Lost Weekend and was written by Charles R Jackson.

----------


## Mathor

I am a reader. I also occasionally drink a couple glasses of wine. Sometimes the two mix. I think authors write about alcohol because they in fact drank alcohol or on the contrary, because they didn't drink alcohol and see it as a bad subtance and use it to vilify a character.

----------


## Lokasenna

Sometimes alcohol helps the reading process. It's amazing how a gin and tonic or two can relax the mind, and leave it more open!

----------


## LitNetIsGreat

> The novel in which the main character sells his typewriter is called The Lost Weekend and was written by Charles R Jackson.


Oh yes thank you that is it, I read it a long time ago, it's certainly the central focus in that novel.

----------


## Mathor

> Sometimes alcohol helps the reading process. It's amazing how a gin and tonic or two can relax the mind, and leave it more open!


i agree.

----------


## Sapphire

> Sometimes alcohol helps the reading process. It's amazing how a gin and tonic or two can relax the mind, and leave it more open!


Sometimes alcohol does quite the opposite though, clouding your mind and making it more difficult to concentrate. But I guess that might be a later state... after more drinks. One has to keep in mind that "drinking alcohol" is not the same as being drunk  :Wink:

----------


## Hank Stamper

> Sometimes alcohol does quite the opposite though, clouding your mind and making it more difficult to concentrate. But I guess that might be a later state... after more drinks. One has to keep in mind that "drinking alcohol" is not the same as being drunk


yeah i cant drink and read.. even after one beer i am easily distracted!

nor can i read on a hangover

----------


## underyourskin

i never have the patience to drink and read

----------


## Lokasenna

> Sometimes alcohol does quite the opposite though, clouding your mind and making it more difficult to concentrate. But I guess that might be a later state... after more drinks. One has to keep in mind that "drinking alcohol" is not the same as being drunk


Agreed - its a fine line. And certainly, after a few to many, the capability to both read and comprehend goes out the proverbial window.

That said, and this will probably sound really sad, but when I'm reading medieval texts, I like to light some candles and drink mead, just to get into the spirit of the thing!

----------


## kelby_lake

It's a great device to use in literature  :Smile:

----------


## The Comedian

> It's a great device to use in literature


Not only that, It's a great device to use *on* literature as well. My copy of The Last of the Mohicans, for example, has an impressive Merlot stain on the front cover, marking this mediocre novel my own.  :Smile:  And I do believe there are a few dribbles of Jack Daniels on my Two Towers novel which lend the book a uniquely perfumed air. 

And, my copy of Emma has a conspicuous circle worn on the front cover that could only have been created by a dewy bottle cold brew, as though someone used Ms. Austen's book as a coaster on which to rest his libation during a football game. 

I love the books of Edward Abbey, and alcohol, especially cheap alcohol, play a significant role in his works. In his case, cheap booze reflects his sensitivity to a plebeian/redneck lifestyle and, more poignantly, alcohol is portrayed as an ugly escape from ugly world.

----------


## LitNetIsGreat

> Agreed - its a fine line. And certainly, after a few to many, the capability to both read and comprehend goes out the proverbial window.
> 
> That said, and this will probably sound really sad, but when I'm reading medieval texts, I like to light some candles and drink mead, just to get into the spirit of the thing!


Yes it is a fine line, too much drink doesn't work, a little is fine. (No the candle and mead thing is cool.  :Cool: )




> Not only that, It's a great device to use *on* literature as well. My copy of The Last of the Mohicans, for example, has an impressive Merlot stain on the front cover, marking this mediocre novel my own.  And I do believe there are a few dribbles of Jack Daniels on my Two Towers novel which lend the book a uniquely perfumed air. 
> 
> And, my copy of Emma has a conspicuous circle worn on the front cover that could only have been created by a dewy bottle cold brew, as though someone used Ms. Austen's book as a coaster on which to rest his libation during a football game.


I never use the front cover as a coaster, no that is bad play, I sometimes use the back in an emergency though.




> I love the books of Edward Abbey, and alcohol, especially cheap alcohol, play a significant role in his works. In his case, cheap booze reflects his sensitivity to a plebeian/redneck lifestyle and, more poignantly, alcohol is portrayed as an ugly escape from ugly world.


I like the "ugly escape from an ugly world" very much, yes I like that, that's often true.

----------


## The Comedian

> I never use the front cover as a coaster, no that is bad play, I sometimes use the back in an emergency though.


Good call. That whole Emma-as-beer-coaster-issue occurred when I was much younger and less aware of the greater world of aesthete sensitivity. I do, however, like your suggestion of using the back cover as a coaster when the need arises. I'm also not above using my kids' books (any cover) as coasters in times of great need. Their books are strewn about the house, and so offer themselves as convenient coasters no matter where I am or what I am drinking.

----------


## LitNetIsGreat

> Good call. That whole Emma-as-beer-coaster-issue occurred when I was much younger and less aware of the greater world of aesthete sensitivity. I do, however, like your suggestion of using the back cover as a coaster when the need arises. I'm also not above using my kids' books (any cover) as coasters in times of great need. Their books are strewn about the house, and so offer themselves as convenient coasters no matter where I am or what I am drinking.


 :FRlol:  

I am glad we see eye-to-eye upon this issue.  :Thumbs Up:  :Smile:

----------


## TheFifthElement

> That said, and this will probably sound really sad, but when I'm reading medieval texts, I like to light some candles and drink mead, just to get into the spirit of the thing!


mead  :Sick: 
I tried mead once when I stayed with a friend in Llangollen and will never be tempted again.

But with a nice glass of Shiraz, mmm, yes the reading goes a bit smoother.

Phew! Had a Kate Bush moment there...

----------


## subterranean

> This is a great question. I don't think I have an opinion one way or the other. It reflects the culture of the time and place and in some circumstances contains a thematic purpose. Though I suspect that writers probably indulged more than the average person. Certanly Hemingway's work is just loaded with booze.


So I heard about Fitzgerald and Faulkner as well. But unlike drugs to musicians, I heard that alcohol give a downside effect to authors' creativity. 




> Sometimes alcohol helps the reading process. It's amazing how a gin and tonic or two can relax the mind, and leave it more open!


Really? Suppose next time I should have my Bombay Shapphire and Schweppes with one of those books I'm having hard time with.

----------


## mayneverhave

I don't know. Personally, I can't read drunk, nor do I usually have a desire to write when I'm drunk.

Honestly I think marijuana is better at stimulating the creative juices than alcohol, but that's my opinion. Poetry is also very enlightening when one is high.

It's too bad LSD wasn't invented till the 20th century. I can just imagine what some authors like Shelley or Blake could have done on an acid trip.

----------


## LitNetIsGreat

> It's too bad LSD wasn't invented till the 20th century. I can just imagine what some authors like Shelley or Blake could have done on an acid trip.


They were both mad enough, they didn't need anything.

Yes reading when drunk is not cool, but one is fine. Speaking of which it is time to stick a beer in the freezer.

----------


## dafydd manton

They reckon that Shakespeare was fond of a goblet of mead or two, and he could scribble a bit. The same could be said of Mozart, Beethoven and Brahms, obviously not writers as we mean it, but it shows that a snort or two can certainly help. Jack Kerouac was a bit of a boozer, too, and I've not doubt the list goes on. Frankly, the best stuff I ever wrote was after a quantity of brandy, but then, who has ever heard of me, so maybe that negates everything?

----------


## PabloQ

I'm not quite sure whether this about authors who drink, the role of alcohol in literature or an AA meeting. However, the consumption of alcohol is central to F. Scott Fitzgerald's _The Beautiful and the Damned_ and in T_his Side of Paradise_. Alcohol practically becomes a character in the former, contributing to the alienation and destruction of its two central characters. What's interesting it the availability of booze through the Prohibition era. One gets the idea from TV and movies was the only way to get alcohol was to know a gangster or a smuggler. Apparently not. Even George Babbitt knows where to get a bottle of gin.
Hemingway's _The Sun Also Rises_ is a regular booze fest. It just seems to be something everyone does, but to different levels and for different reasons. One character is a mean and ugly drunk. It seems more a part of the lifestyle and not a particularly dangerous one. Love seems to be far more hazardous.
There are many writers who fought alcoholism, but I don't think you can look at the work and say, This was written by a drunk.

----------


## Mathor

Sometimes it's like, everyone in the book is drinking, i'm drinking, makes you feel like you're there. but just don't get drunk cause once you get drunk you have no way of focusing with the right level of attention that should be paid to a good book.

----------


## Virgil

> So I heard about Fitzgerald and Faulkner as well. But unlike drugs to musicians, I heard that alcohol give a downside effect to authors' creativity.


Both alcohol and drugs destroy your ability to think clearly and therefore reduce your creativity. There is something to be said for a glass of wine to loosen you up, but beyond that it is counter productive. One can make the case that as they became more involved with their drinking, Fitzgerald, Faulkner, Hemingway, and others deteriorated in their abilities. And what do you mean "unlike drugs to musicians?" Musicians aren't more creative because of drugs. They become sloppy and unoriginal.

----------


## LitNetIsGreat

> I'm not quite sure whether this about authors who drink, the role of alcohol in literature or an AA meeting.


 :FRlol: 
Hello my name is Neely. It all started when...

----------


## Emil Miller

> Hello my name is Neely. It all started when...


Gosh Neely, and I thought i was all alone.

----------


## subterranean

> Both alcohol and drugs destroy your ability to think clearly and therefore reduce your creativity. There is something to be said for a glass of wine to loosen you up, but beyond that it is counter productive. One can make the case that as they became more involved with their drinking, Fitzgerald, Faulkner, Hemingway, and others deteriorated in their abilities. And what do you mean "unlike drugs to musicians?" Musicians aren't more creative because of drugs. They become sloppy and unoriginal.


I agree with you, Virg. My point was, in some books/movies/stories that I read/watch/heard, some musicians had this short or long term or even lifetime attachment with drugs as they are seen to have some kind of 'good' influence in the creativity process. Of course, the love story stop at some point when the demon starts to show himself and deteriorate the ability. But when it comes to authors, once they got addicted, it's all going downhill from there.

----------


## dafydd manton

> Both alcohol and drugs destroy your ability to think clearly and therefore reduce your creativity. There is something to be said for a glass of wine to loosen you up, but beyond that it is counter productive. One can make the case that as they became more involved with their drinking, Fitzgerald, Faulkner, Hemingway, and others deteriorated in their abilities. And what do you mean "unlike drugs to musicians?" Musicians aren't more creative because of drugs. They become sloppy and unoriginal.


Reduce creativity? How about Dylan Thomas? Admittedly, it reduced his life-span, which I suppose directly affects your creativity, but some of the best stuff he wrote was when he was smashed. "Do not go gentle into that sweet goodnight" was not written by a teetotaler!

----------


## Emil Miller

> Reduce creativity? How about Dylan Thomas? Admittedly, it reduced his life-span, which I suppose directly affects your creativity, but some of the best stuff he wrote was when he was smashed. "Do not go gentle into that sweet goodnight" was not written by a teetotaler!


It is difficult to know at what point alcohol reduces a writer's creativity, because some people have greater resistance to alchohol than others. That being said, Dylan Thomas died of alcohol poisoning in New York during a poetry reading tour during the 1950's. I suspect that much of Thomas's work was done when he was away from people who would encourage his drinking tendency. e.g. in the boathouse at Laugharne.

----------


## mayneverhave

I cannot agree that drugs inhibit creativity. Personally I find marijuana to not only allow me to derive greater pleasure from reading/listening to music, etc, it allows me to think of things in an entirely different frame of mind - if this does nothing else it allows for greater creativity.

The only difficulty in being stoned is the actual physical act of writing, but aside from this..

----------


## Virgil

Well, I figured all the drugies would come out once I made my claim. I stand by what I said. I know no one who is drunk or under the influence that is as good as when he is sober. Sorry. Medically you drugies make no sense.

----------


## mayneverhave

> Well, I figured all the drugies would come out once I made my claim. I stand by what I said. I know no one who is drunk or under the influence that is as good as when he is sober. Sorry. Medically you drugies make no sense.


I'm not sure in what sense you use the word "druggie", and whether I should take offence to it. I'm not sure the occasional toke qualifies one as a druggie, but it depends on whose standards.

Secondly, you say "Medically", but the study of creativity, inspiration, genius (what have you) is rarely scientific, and what may be inspiring to one may inhibit another. I tend to get rather lethargic when I drink, but I am very lucid and creative when I'm high. Some people like to just sit on the couch and eat Doritos when they're stoned. I prefer to listen to Beethoven and read poetry. Of course, that's because I enjoy doing these things even while sober, but the increased enjoyment (or at least the different kind of enjoyment) is undeniable.

----------


## Sapphire

As I do not write myself, nor know which authors liked a drink when they wrote/write, I can not help if we try to find out what the effect of alcohol on the writing process would be. However, I reread the start of this thread: 



> There have been a number of novels written where alcohol plays a significant part in the story. What are the Forum's members' views on this?


I take that this asks more about the role of alcohol in the story, than in/on the writer. 

I think alcohol can be a big theme in a book, as it can greatly influence a persons actions. It would be odd, for something which is so apparent in "real life", not to turn up in books, poems and stories. 

As for "is it morally right to put alcohol in a story". I really do not see how it could be morally wrong... It might be a bad thing for a book to worship alcohol as something good, encouraging the reader to become a down and out drunk. But as far as I know, there are no books like that ... I have not read them at least: people have great adventures while under influence - but they always tend to wake up with an headage the next day  :Wink:  

Edit: I stumbled upon another thread that touches this subject, more from the writer/artst point of view (and broader than alcohol) I hear Ernest liked his whiskey

----------


## mono

Sorry I have come somewhat late in the discussion, but I highly agree that alcohol has played an immense role in literature. A lot of people have mentioned the Lost Generation (Hemingway, Fitzgerald, Pound, Stein, and Joyce, to a degree), but we can see a significant mention of alcohol, among other substances, in literature. The Beat Poets made mention of substances big and small, 'The Cask of Amontillado' and other stories by Poe speaks for themselves, Rumi and Hafiz preached of their love for wine in their Sufi poetry, alcohol seemed something popular to add fault to a character in Tolstoy and Dostoevsky tales, and we have even seen evidence of alcohol distorting the thought of various characters in Shakespeare plays.
Along the same lines, I feel fascinated of how one substance, such as alcohol, can 'make-or-break' a character or writer; many say that substance abuse added fuel to the fire of Beat Poets and Aleister Crowley, contributing to their brilliance, yet we clearly see characters in Hemingway and Fitzgerald's novels getting corrupted partially at the blame of alcohol. Then again, Keruoac died of esophageal varices, a severe internal bleeding syndrome frequently caused by extended alcoholism.
A lot of writers and fictional characters smoke cigars, cigarettes, and pipes, and can even give them a trademark (such as Sherlock Holme's pipe), but writers choose alcohol for themselves or for their characters, I think, because of its availability. Many countries have illegalized various substances like marijuana, cocaine and its derivatives, opiates, methamphetamines, etc., but alcohol and tobacco has few restrictions; for the sake of originality in a character, I can see how writers may choose alcohol over tobacco, because it seems so much more taboo - tobacco seems too common, but alcohol can drive us to endless possibilities and has more of a mind-warping effect. In the case of illegal substances, a reader gains too much of a quick bias; if a character regularly indulges in cocaine, then he/she sounds like a risky, live-by-one's-own-rules type, and the reader can see that as too strong a strength or weakness - with alcohol, a character can seem a success or failure.

----------


## Mathor

> Both alcohol and drugs destroy your ability to think clearly and therefore reduce your creativity. There is something to be said for a glass of wine to loosen you up, but beyond that it is counter productive. One can make the case that as they became more involved with their drinking, Fitzgerald, Faulkner, Hemingway, and others deteriorated in their abilities. And what do you mean "unlike drugs to musicians?" Musicians aren't more creative because of drugs. They become sloppy and unoriginal.


Virgil i completely agree with you. But i think there a lot of levels of intoxication as far as alcohol is concerned. Drinking a beer or two and relaxing and reading your favorite book doesn't impair you in any way and doesn't change you or the way you think if anything it allows your mind to relax and it does the opposite of impair you but allows you to relax and enjoy what you're taking in. There's a difference between drinking some and being drunk.

----------


## Virgil

> Virgil i completely agree with you. But i think there a lot of levels of intoxication as far as alcohol is concerned. Drinking a beer or two and relaxing and reading your favorite book doesn't impair you in any way and doesn't change you or the way you think if anything it allows your mind to relax and it does the opposite of impair you but allows you to relax and enjoy what you're taking in. There's a difference between drinking some and being drunk.


I agree Mathor. I think in my post I said a glass of wine to loosen up can be helpfull, and I woould include a beer or two or a singlle drink of hard liquor as well. But intoxication of any kind does not enhance ablities. It reduces them. If you can't drive a car drunk what makes anyone think they can write?

----------


## mayneverhave

> If you can't drive a car drunk what makes anyone think they can write?


How could you possibly equate the "operation of heavy machinery" with writing? Writing generally involves the channeling of the imagination and creative forces into words, into language - it does not require the pinpoint precision of hand-eye-coordination. A blind man could not drive a car, but there's no reason to assume he couldn't write. If drinking beer causes you to experience something differently, to see the world in a different light, how could you possibly say that it inhibits creativity?

----------


## antiprefix

> Not only that, It's a great device to use *on* literature as well. My copy of The Last of the Mohicans, for example, has an impressive Merlot stain on the front cover, marking this mediocre novel my own.  And I do believe there are a few dribbles of Jack Daniels on my Two Towers novel which lend the book a uniquely perfumed air. 
> 
> And, my copy of Emma has a conspicuous circle worn on the front cover that could only have been created by a dewy bottle cold brew, as though someone used Ms. Austen's book as a coaster on which to rest his libation during a football game. 
> 
> I love the books of Edward Abbey, and alcohol, especially cheap alcohol, play a significant role in his works. In his case, cheap booze reflects his sensitivity to a plebeian/redneck lifestyle and, more poignantly, alcohol is portrayed as an ugly escape from ugly world.


Interesting teaching about Abbey. 

I think an important author to mention is O'Neill. The inclusion of alcohol in Long Day's Journey Into Night frames the theme of depression and self-destruction -- these things are made apparent by other motifs, like the fog for instance.

Raymond Carver's short stories are also ridden with alcohol. His poetry isn't as much, however.

----------


## kelby_lake

Definitely O'Neill.

PS- Has anyone read The Doors of Perception?

----------


## Mopey Droney

> Both alcohol and drugs destroy your ability to think clearly and therefore reduce your creativity. There is something to be said for a glass of wine to loosen you up, but beyond that it is counter productive. One can make the case that as they became more involved with their drinking, Fitzgerald, Faulkner, Hemingway, and others deteriorated in their abilities. And what do you mean "unlike drugs to musicians?" Musicians aren't more creative because of drugs. They become sloppy and unoriginal.


This is just your opinion stated as if it were a fact. You can argue that drugs kill creative people, but it's totally preposterous to say that it always makes artists worse like it's a fact. Hendrix hit his high point when he was doing the most drugs. Same with Cobain and Bob Dylan and numerous others.

----------


## Scheherazade

> This is just your opinion stated as if it were a fact. You can argue that drugs kill creative people, but it's totally preposterous to say that it always makes artists worse like it's a fact. Hendrix hit his high point when he was doing the most drugs. Same with Cobain and Bob Dylan and numerous others.


But we don't know what kind of work they would have produced without drugs or alcohol at that particular point in their lives, do we?

----------


## Lokasenna

To be fair, I think its hit and miss. Coleridge might have come up with _Kubla Khan_ while on an opium high, but there will be plenty of times artists have written drivel because of being out-of-it. I've never taken drugs (nor ever will), so I don't know what the feeling is like, but I do know one guy who wrote an essay on _Paradise Lost_ while high on ecstasy, and was convinced he'd written a masterpiece. When he got the mark back, and found he'd failed, he asked why, and they told him that it although it was generally appaling, the clincher had been that rather reffering to Adam and Eve, he had talked about Pete and Eve throughout. He'd been so drugged up, he hadn't even been aware of it!

So, I think that drugs/alcohol _can_ stimulate artistic ability, but I would say that more often than not they diminish it. People just usually think that what they've written while high is superb!

----------


## mono

> So, I think that drugs/alcohol can stimulate artistic ability, but I would say that more often than not they diminish it. People just usually think that what they've written while high is superb!


I can definitely agree and disagree with this statement highly. Various substances can create a frame of mind unattainable otherwise, and this can 'make-or-break' the piece of work. You mentioned Coleridge in composing 'Kubla Khan,' which he would likely not have ever written without the assistance of laudanum. Similarly, I doubt if Poe, Crowley, the Beat Poets, or the Lost Generation would have written their works without their 'drugs of choice.'
Without shame, I confess that in the past I have experimented with various substances, but now consume nothing more than alcohol occasionally. I would never dared write an essay while under the influence of something, like your friend, but while working on my own plays or poetry, it seemed one of two extremes: something fantastic and original, or something awful that I would end up tossing in the trash. Congruently, while reading others' works, my interpretations would change greatly depending on if I had consumed a various substance as opposed to being sober; to tell all honesty, I never fully understood 'Dover Beach' by Matthew Arnold until, years ago, under the spell of absinthe.

----------


## honeyleroy101

alcohol normally makes people tell the truth, hense the expression "truth in wine".

and books are told from a truthful perspective, the words cannot lie to you.. i mean how many novels have you read which say;
"once upon a time there were 3 men and a dog living in a yellow house." then five pages later "oh no, i was lying to you to catch you out.. there were only 2 men and it was a cat living in a yellow house!!!"

so it almost like the author is drunk when writing

----------


## JacobF

I think great ideas can birth under the influence of drugs and alcohol. But I don't think writing in those states (especially alcohol) would create some 'profound masterpiece' as the generalization entails. I've seen some things which people have written on weed and LSD trips and they think it's a masterpiece, but to me it was just nonsense. I tell them that, and they usually continue in saying it's a work of art. 

Though I think writing while in different states of mind is good exercise if you're a writer and willing to take drugs/alcohol. But it's highly unlikely you would produce a masterpiece despite what your high leads you to believe (unless writing is so instinctive to you that you can still create a coherent sentence as the drugs flow through your body).

----------


## leobloomsbury

alcohol loosens the mind's hold on the unconscious, certain works by certain author's who write while drinking are often more truthful, more blunt. it is fine, indeed.

----------


## Madame X

Yeah but literature is often metaphoric, and thus, when you think about it, a rather deceitful trade by nature. Trust me; Im drunk.  :Wink:

----------


## Emil Miller

> The OP:What do you think?


As is seen from the replies made to the original post, alcohol has featured throughout literature from its earliest times. Whether it has helped or hindered the writing of literature is difficult to say. One thinks of Scott Fitzgerald writing the Great Gatsby in 1925 at the height of the prohibition era and, given that we know his drinking was often excessive, it may be that, part, if not most of it, was written under the influence. If so, it is extraordinary that such lucidity could be achieved under those circumstances. 
There are plenty of other examples of writers who were excessive drinkers but there are also those who were not noted for such behaviour and still turned out wonderful writing. Somerset Maugham may have been addicted to sex but in everything else he was abstemious to a remarkable degree; carefully controlling his drinking and passing caustic comment on those who didn't. Nevertheless, drink plays a noticeable part in several of his novels. 
Emile Zola, who was fairly moderate in his drinking, wrote L'assommoir, one of the best and most heartbreaking novels ever written concerning the dangers of drink while the well-to-do Edmond and Jules de Goncourt co-wrote Germinie Lacerteaux, another celebrated story of the degrading aspects of alcohol.
So it would seem that some writers have been reliant on drink while others have not but I wouldn't like to say to what degree alcohol has been an absolute necessity.

----------


## kelby_lake

I don't think that alcohol or drugs are a necessity for producing good imaginative work. You might draw inspiration from your dreams, which seem potent at the time but outside of your dream they make little sense. They are a crutch and are only necessary if the writer makes them so.

----------


## Emil Miller

> I don't think that alcohol or drugs are a necessity for producing good imaginative work. You might draw inspiration from your dreams, which seem potent at the time but outside of your dream they make little sense. They are a crutch and are only necessary if the writer makes them so.


I find the psychological makeup of people, as revealed in what they say and write, interesting. It may be that some authors use alcohol to free them from inhibitions that prevent them from writing what they want. Writers generally use their own experiences in their writing and some might not find it easy to delve too deeply into their own psyche which may hold distressing elements from the past. The bottle of alcohol at their elbow may help them transform their inner demons into meaningful writing, as with Scott Fitzgerald's novel _Tender is the Night_  in which he uses his own experience of his wife's insanity.
_In vino veritas_ as the saying goes.

----------

