# Teaching > General Teaching >  Teaching News

## Scheherazade

> Pupils 'unable to use full stops' 
> 
> A third of children leave primary school in England unable to use full stops and capital letters properly, examiners have suggested. 
> They are unable to demarcate sentences with basic punctuation marks, analysis by exams watchdog the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority reveals. 
> 
> Some 67% of the 600,000 11-year-olds who took Key Stage 2 writing tests in 2006 met the standard expected of them. 
> 
> Just under half reached level 4 in national English tests as a whole. 
> 
> ...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6263075.stm

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## Schokokeks

That's interesting, and worrying.
In addition to problems with punctuation, I've noticed that the kids I tutor don't know what to do with articles and/or prepositions. I frequently hear "Let's go disco." or "Give me keys."

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## Virgil

Here's an interesting article. What interrests me is not so much the general thrust of the article but the cost of educaton. It costs over $12,500 per student per year. This has been a long pet peeve of mine. What makes for such an exuberant cost? A typical class is around 30 students. $12,000 times 30 equals $360,000. A class is eesentially one teacher. Now a teacher makes at most $80,000 and when you figure overhead (medical benefits, paid vacation, management, building and maitenence, supplies) that is typically 50% of the base salary, so it costs the employer $80,000 plus $40,000 to support a classroom. That's $120,000. Where does the rest of the money go? Every election year politicians keep saying that we need more money to educate our children. BUT WHERE DOES THE MONEY GO? Two thirds of it doesn't go directly to a classroom. 





> Towns tame taxes by keeping children out
> By Bob Ivry
> BLOOMBERG NEWS
> January 20, 2007 
> 
> Lee Farber, left, talks with town councilman Irwin Nalitt, outside Farber's home at Clearbrook, an 55 and-over age-restricted housing community in Monroe Township, New Jersey. (BLOOMBERG NEWS)
> New Jersey towns have figured out a way to sidestep the highest property taxes in the U.S. 
> Keep children out. 
> Educating a child in New Jersey costs an average of $12,567 a year, the most in the nation and more than double the property tax parents typically pay. So local governments have hit upon a way to expand the tax base without the expense of higher enrollment: age-restricted housing. 
> ...



I didn't paste the entire article. You can read it here: http://www.washtimes.com/business/20...4741-5143r.htm

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## Admin

Where the rest goes: Lawyers and beauracracy. Also do not forget that is an average. Mentally disabled students cost as much as $50k per pupil, only because their parents refuse to believe they are different and demand they go to the same schools as everyone else. It ends up being glorified baby sitting that could be done for much cheaper.

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## Virgil

> Where the rest goes: Lawyers and beauracracy. Also do not forget that is an average. Mentally disabled students cost as much as $50k per pupil, only because their parents refuse to believe they are different and demand they go to the same schools as everyone else. It ends up being glorified baby sitting that could be done for much cheaper.


Oh that is interesting about disabled students. There were a few when I went to school, but only a handful. I can't imagine they drive the average that much. It is beuaracracy as far as I can see. I was hoping some teachers on the forum would shed some light for me.

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## genoveva

That is pretty high. In Oregon I think it is only 1/3 of that. This is one reason why some people do not like homeschooling. If their kids aren't in school, the "school system" doesn't get the money. I can't believe there is age restricted housing. I thought that was illegal! Also, many families of Special Needs students (a term I prefer to "Mentally ill students") want their child integrated with normally functioning students. I don't think they want them to only be around other Special Needs students. Plus, it is good for normally functioning students to learn how to be in a community with other people who are not exactly like them. Because Special Needs students qualify for specialists, their needs are sometimes met better at school if the family feels like they are inadequate "teachers". In my opinion, school as a whole can be seem as "glorified babysitting".

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## ennison

No doubt capital costs for buildings and interest repayments could account for some monies. Then there's heating costs, maintenance of property etc. I wont say much here as this seems to be about American domestic politics. Education is expensive but ignorance is much more expensive. All poor countries have very low levels of education.

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## Virgil

I came across this in my morning reading and I thought you teachers might be interested.

There was a time when extra effort had to be made to help girls in school, and rightly so. But I think the pendulum (just check college grad rates between guys and gals in the US) has shifted the other way. I think some extra attention needs to be given to boys now.





> Boys can make the grade, if they're not bored
> May 21, 2007
> BY PEGGY WALSH-SARNECKI
> 
> There's a big difference in Pamela Dean's English 9 class at Salem High School when Grammar Bowl begins.
> 
> The boys clamber over desks and race for the chairs, sitting with shoulders hunched forward, buzzers clutched in hand. On a recent day, the boys beat the girls to the buzzer for 42 out of 45 questions.
> 
> That level of engagement doesn't usually happen in English classes, where girls typically far outperform boys on testing. But turn it into a sport, and suddenly the boys get it.
> ...


You can read the rest of the article here.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article.../705210325/1001

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## chunwing

It does seem the pendulum has swung the other way. For so long education bodies have tried to make things easier for girls that they've neglected the boys.

In NSW Australia, they changed the high school syllabus. If you compare a physics paper now to 10 years ago, the current one has more descriptive type questions than calculation ones. Generally speaking, everyone knows that guys are stronger in maths/science and girls in the arts. The move was clearly to make things easier for girls.

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## Scheherazade

> Google is to ban adverts for essay writing services - following claims that plagiarism is threatening the integrity of university degrees. 
> 
> There have been complaints from universities about students being sold customised essays on the internet. 
> 
> The advert ban from the Google search engine has been "warmly welcomed" by university authorities. 
> 
> But it has angered essay writing firms which say this will unfairly punish legitimate businesses. 
> 
> From next month, Google will no longer take adverts from companies which sell essays and dissertations - and the internet company has written to advertisers to tell them about the policy.


 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6680457.stm

 :Thumbs Up:

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## Virgil

> Google bans essay writing adverts


Hey that is good news, but I bet the kids will find another way to get essays.

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## SleepyWitch

> Eight out of ten children with learning disabilities are scared to leave their homes for fear of being bullied, a report has found.
> 
> The bullies are invariably other children, picking on young people with Downs Syndrome, cerebral palsy and other disabilities because they are easy targets.
> 
> The survey, conducted by Mencap, was based on interviews with hundreds of children who have learning disabilities and is designed to explore what life is like for them in modern Britain.
> 
> Instead of finding tolerance and understanding, the survey found that the children are routinely bullied everywhere they go, including at school, in the park, on the bus, in the street and at out-of-school clubs. 
> .....
> ......


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1945751.ece


hey, those articles you guys have posted sound really interesting, will have to read them some time.

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## litlearner

As a parent and a tax paying homeowner, I am always conflicted when it comes time to vote on my school budget. Like most parents, I want my son to get the best education possible and I know that costs money. When I recently became a teacher myself, I became even more conflicted! There are several threads above and I will comment on them seperately. 
I know, that even though I am now an "empty-nester", I hope to have grandchildren some day and I would want them too to get a quality education. My neighbors, who still have children in school, also deserve the same treatment. All of our futures depend on our schools providing a steady stream of competent, responsible leaders and problem solvers. Personally, I think it's selfish to turn my back on public education, once my own children have graduated. Older Americans, while saving a district money on education, can cost tax payers plenty in other ways. Consider who pays for the health care and housing needs of seniors who have not been able to save enough for retirement? How much cheaper would working family's health insurance be if not for the huge costs spent on seniors?
As for the question, why does education cost so much--if one would take some time to read the yearly budget (I don't) they would know there is much more involved than teacher salaries. Most of us have heard of "mandated" programs that raise local costs but fail to be funded. No child left Behind, a federally mandate program, with an emphasis on teacher accountability, and standardized tests, has added greatly to the cost of education. Tests cost money, not only to buy, but to practice for, administer and to grade. 
Special ed. costs are very high too, but the alternative: uneducated misfits who have little or no social or vocational skills, are misunderstood by their peers, and who must be supported for a lifetime by social services or worse; turn to crime, is much more costly in the long run. This doesn't even take into the account the angst of their parents, and that could be anyone of us. The majority of these kids can and do learn and many are downright brilliant.
When I student taught, I had one class with two supporting staffers. One followed a student around all day to sign for her and the other followed a student all day because he could become very disruptive and too much for the teacher, who has 25 or so other students, to control. 
Remember, the money districts spend is ultimately granted by our fellow tax payers: teachers don't raise our taxes, we and our legislators do that. Is money wasted or misappropriated at times? For sure, but look at the examples set by our society; profiteers in Iraq and in New Orleans being just two of the most recent and egregious.

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## jon1jt

as it stands today, even modest school budget increases will have no bearing on the quality of education, at least in public education. it just doesn't pay enough. plus, unions, tenure, content/curriculum standards, patronage, guarantee that the vast majority of teachers - at least in the US - will remain mediocre at best. 

i recall a conversation i had once with a girl in a bar when i was working in public ed. she mentioned how education is such a "nobel profession." it inspired me to ask her why she didn't teach. in my mind, she appeared to be very articulate, educated, and creative. 

"I'm an attorney, I make real money," she answered. ahhh.

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## Virgil

> as it stands today, even modest school budget increases will have no bearing on the quality of education, at least in public education. it just doesn't pay enough. plus, unions, tenure, content/curriculum standards, patronage, guarantee that the vast majority of teachers - at least in the US - will remain mediocre at best. 
> 
> i recall a conversation i had once with a girl in a bar when i was working in public ed. she mentioned how education is such a "nobel profession." it inspired me to ask her why she didn't teach. in my mind, she appeared to be very articulate, educated, and creative. 
> 
> "I'm an attorney, I make real money," she answered. ahhh.


Jon, read post #3 above in this thread. Where does all that money go?

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## jon1jt

> Jon, read post #3 above in this thread. Where does all that money go?



that's a good question virgil. this was one of my grievances with the public system when i worked in it. Admin touches on a huge problem that i encountered first hand, the inflated cost of funding special education programs that are full of students who clearly can't handle it. armed with their whacky classification schemes, students are deemed "classified" or "504" and placed in mainstream classes under a doctrine of "inclusion" where they are _assigned_ a permanent "teacher." this teacher is paid the same salary as a specialized subject teacher which they don't deserve because, as admin pointed out, all they do is baby sit, shadowing students from class to class. they are also required to assist and organize the student's homework, and in many cases i observed special ed teachers doing the homework for them while the student goofed off during his/her special ed period. additionally these wanna-be teachers have the luxury of NO lesson planning and little to no grading of tests/papers/homework.  :Alien:  

many of the special ed teachers i worked with would have been special ed students themselves had the special ed program existed when they were going in school.


students classified as "504" basically meant that as a subject teacher i could NOT grade them under the same standard as a mainstream student. i also had to give them "extra time" and never once did i experience where the extra time amounted to an improvement in the student's grade or work product. a 'C' grade for a special ed student was the equivalent of an F grade for a mainstream kid. the sad fact is i never once met a special ed student with the skills to be in a regular class. when i approached the special ed team about it -- usually headed by a school psychiatrist -- to inform them that their student couldn't hack the work, they referred me to the classification file. 

enough's enough, if parents want their children who are classified to go to a regular school, then they should have to earn being there or face attending an alternative school. they lower the quality of learning for students who meet the standard. the system needs to stop dumbing down. 

a teacher needs to step up with the nerve and write a book that puts the special ed program on notice. Special ed students are not the same.

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## Virgil

Thanks Jon. I do believe that teachers are under paid, but I bristle every time I hear politicians saying that more money needs to go to education. I got to believe the system can be more efficient. You may disagree with me, but I do believe that private competition (in the same way that colleges have both private and public) would do the system wonders.

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## jon1jt

> Thanks Jon. I do believe that teachers are under paid, but I bristle every time I hear politicians saying that more money needs to go to education. I got to believe the system can be more efficient. You may disagree with me, but I do believe that private competition (in the same way that colleges have both private and public) would do the system wonders.


not at all, i agree with you 100&#37;.  :Thumbs Up:  that's a system in which teachers will be properly compensated based on merit, not union membership.

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## stlukesguild

Here's an interesting article. What interrests me is not so much the general thrust of the article but the cost of educaton. It costs over $12,500 per student per year. This has been a long pet peeve of mine. What makes for such an exuberant cost? A typical class is around 30 students. $12,000 times 30 equals $360,000. A class is esentially one teacher. Now a teacher makes at most $80,000 and when you figure overhead (medical benefits, paid vacation, management, building and maitenence, supplies) that is typically 50% of the base salary, so it costs the employer $80,000 plus $40,000 to support a classroom. That's $120,000. Where does the rest of the money go? Every election year politicians keep saying that we need more money to educate our children. BUT WHERE DOES THE MONEY GO? Two thirds of it doesn't go directly to a classroom.


Interesting article, Virgil. I will note that there are some discrepancies... or rather some expenses that you have left out. The average class sizes vary greatly. Currently there is a movement toward smaller class sizes in the early elementary years, studies having found strong correlation between class size and student learning in the early years. Many schools stipulate a 15 or 20 to 1 ratio in 1st through 3rd grade. Of course, there are also situations (not uncommon) when teachers have 45, 50, or more students. But you cannot count the salaries of the classroom or homeroom teacher only. There are the subject area specialists (art, music, P.E., library, etc...). In high school you have all the various electives (foreign languages, wood shop, the arts, etc...) You also have the extracurricular activities (clubs, sports, band, etc...) Add to this the administrative costs (principals, secretaries, etc...) and operational maintenance and supplies (custodial, construction, electricians, plumbers, utilities, the costs of books, paper, xerox machines, instruments for band, equipment for sports, art supplies, etc...) 

If we figure all of this in we must figure the salary and benefits of a teacher ($80,000) plus 1/5th of this to cover the subject area specialists (who the children go to while the teacher is on his or her planning periods) That adds a further $16,000. To this we must also add administrative costs. If we figure there is usually somewhere around 1 principal ($100,000) two custodians ($180,000) 2 cleaners ($60,000), four food service personnel ($60,000) and two secretaries ($60,000) for every 400 children this comes to approximately another $1200 per student. Add to this transportation costs, after school detentions, extracurricular activities, books, supplies, etc... and we start getting far closer to understanding the costs of maintaining and operating a school.

On the other hand... as Jon has suggested there is a hell of a lot of money wasted on special ed services... largely due to the federal government's inane (asinine) requirement that each child be taught in the "least restrictive environment". As a result the most in-demand position in the public schools today... and the fastest growing... is the special ed departments. Some of these Special Ed teachers truly earn their pay... teaching 12 or 15 children at 5 different grade levels and 15 different cognitive levels... but far too often we have Special Ed. teachers who have 8 or 4... or even just 2 students... and these students are mainstreamed into the regular classrooms with the regular classroom teacher who must deal with them... maintain discipline... but cannot grade them. Now and then the Special Ed. Instructional Aid will be there to help... but most of the time he or she is off making xerox copies for the Special Ed. teacher or making phone calls. Every now and then the Special Ed. teacher may pull 3 or 4 of his/her students aside for individualized instruction... but far too often these students are left to the classroom teachers... and to the subject area specialists who get no assistance in dealing with their behavior or their needs. Add to this the fact that in any given classroom you might find 2 or 3 or 5 other students who should/could be classified as "special ed." (being just as low academically or as disruptive as the behavioral disabled) and you will understand why a lot of teachers aren't overly fond of the whole "Special Ed." Department crap... and suspect it is just one vast waste of money.

not at all, i agree with you 100%. that's a system in which teachers will be properly compensated based on merit, not union membership.

Again... the problem is how do you measure a teacher's "effectiveness". The week before we broke for winter break a well-off suburban school took us on as a partner... with the students raising money to buy coats and sweaters for our kids. Several principals, a superintendent, and a number of teachers came to our school. The one principal came from the most poverty-ridden school in his district. 24% of his students met the federal poverty guidelines required for them to be provided a free breakfast. He was shocked to discover that 100% or our students qualify. His school district has easily met AYP (average yearly progress under NCLB)... but my building has failed to do so for the last 3 years. I have no doubt, however, that if we were to switch places with the teachers from that school, half of them would quit before the year was out (many the first time a 6-foot 8th grader got in their face, threw a chair across the room or called them an "M...F...er"). Few would find it at all possible to teach anything... let alone meet the required yearly progress. 

How do you measure the ability or effectiveness of a teacher when the teachers in some districts have students with educated, well-off parents who support the schools and education... who work with their children at home... who provide them with computers and books and learning experiences such as trips to the zoo or the orchestra or the museums... who set examples by reading at home themselves... by talking about how important education is... while other schools have students whose parents live in poverty... who walk to school everyday past hookers, gangs, drug dealers, and crack heads... whose only guaranteed meals are those provided by the schools... whose only experience of structure and continuity is provided by the schools... who enter their given grade 3 or 4 grade levels behind in ability and lacking any outside learning experiences outside that provided on the streets or in the R and X-rated films their parents let them watch?

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## Scheherazade

A-level candidates will soon be able to choose some of the books they want to study for their English course. Teachers must approve the texts, which the OCR exam board says will have to be "of sufficient substance". 

Any three works of poetry or prose can be used for its "texts in time" module, a 3,000-word coursework essay that is worth 20% of the final A-level marks. 

Another module, literature post-1900, also allows three free choices though one must be from after 1990. 

OCR's director of qualifications, Clara Kenyon, said the changes - which come into effect in September - should help to enthuse youngsters about the subject. 

"The public has a real enthusiasm for literature, as shown by the popularity of initiatives such as Richard and Judy's Book Club which have been hugely successful," she said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7230754.stm

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## kdugan

It is time to revamp some of the curriculum for the boys. College enrollment is increasingly female dominated. Most of the lads are being taught by all females through 5th or 6th grades. Fiction is the genre of choice for most females. Males much prefer non-fiction. Columbia university in NYC seems to be ahead of the curve in their reading and writing workshop approach.

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## Scheherazade

Pupils are being rewarded for writing obscenities in their GCSE English examinations even when it has nothing to do with the question. 

One pupil who wrote f*** off was given marks for accurate spelling and conveying a meaning successfully. 

His paper was marked by Peter Buckroyd, a chief examiner who has instructed fellow examiners to mark in the same way. He told trainee examiners recently to adhere strictly to the mark scheme, to the extent that pupils who wrote only expletives on their papers should be awarded points. 

Mr Buckroyd, chief examiner of English for the Assessment and Qualifications Alliance (AQA), an examination board, said that he had given the pupil two marks, out of a possible 27, for the expletive. 

To gain minimum marks in English, students must demonstrate some simple sequencing of ideas and some words in appropriate order. The phrase had achieved this, according to Mr Buckroyd. 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle4237491.ece

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## Virgil

> Pupils are being rewarded for writing obscenities in their GCSE English examinations even when it has nothing to do with the question. 
> 
> One pupil who wrote “f*** off” was given marks for accurate spelling and conveying a meaning successfully. 
> 
> His paper was marked by Peter Buckroyd, a chief examiner who has instructed fellow examiners to mark in the same way. He told trainee examiners recently to adhere strictly to the mark scheme, to the extent that pupils who wrote only expletives on their papers should be awarded points. 
> 
> Mr Buckroyd, chief examiner of English for the Assessment and Qualifications Alliance (AQA), an examination board, said that he had given the pupil two marks, out of a possible 27, for the expletive. 
> 
> To gain minimum marks in English, students must demonstrate “some simple sequencing of ideas” and “some words in appropriate order”. The phrase had achieved this, according to Mr Buckroyd. 
> ...


Oh my God. What has this world come to? This just infuriates my conservative heart.  :Flare:  Unreal.

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## applepie

> Pupils are being rewarded for writing obscenities in their GCSE English examinations even when it has nothing to do with the question. 
> 
> One pupil who wrote f*** off was given marks for accurate spelling and conveying a meaning successfully. 
> 
> His paper was marked by Peter Buckroyd, a chief examiner who has instructed fellow examiners to mark in the same way. He told trainee examiners recently to adhere strictly to the mark scheme, to the extent that pupils who wrote only expletives on their papers should be awarded points. 
> 
> Mr Buckroyd, chief examiner of English for the Assessment and Qualifications Alliance (AQA), an examination board, said that he had given the pupil two marks, out of a possible 27, for the expletive. 
> 
> To gain minimum marks in English, students must demonstrate some simple sequencing of ideas and some words in appropriate order. The phrase had achieved this, according to Mr Buckroyd. 
> ...


That is truly disturbing :Flare:  Why would you reward someone in the school system for being intentionally disrespectful? That is more or less what I see this as. A child can write any amount of unacceptable language, and they'll get credit for proper usage and spelling???? What exactly is the education system thinking?

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## Scheherazade

Primary school children as young as five are to be given an early insight into the work of William Shakespeare. 

A government initiative will see schools in England being sent a support package including DVDs of adaptations of his plays in its original language. 

Guidance in the form of a booklet called Shakespeare For All Ages and Stages will be sent to all schools. 

Schools minister Jim Knight said the Bard's work should be enjoyed as much as possible from a young age. 

The booklet includes tips on bringing the writing of Shakespeare alive for children from the age of five to 16. 

And pupils in some secondary schools will get the chance of seeing a live Shakespeare performance. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7490360.stm

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## Nightshade

> Primary school children as young as five are to be given an early insight into the work of William Shakespeare. 
> 
> A government initiative will see schools in England being sent a support package including DVDs of adaptations of his plays in its original language. 
> 
> Guidance in the form of a booklet called Shakespeare For All Ages and Stages will be sent to all schools. 
> 
> Schools minister Jim Knight said the Bard's work should be enjoyed as much as possible from a young age. 
> 
> The booklet includes tips on bringing the writing of Shakespeare alive for children from the age of five to 16. 
> ...


HA! I was going to post this in the news thread, you beat me to it scher  :Nod: 
In principle I dont think its a bad idea my sister did Macbeth at school when she was 7 and for weeks was lugging around the Oxford ( or was it kingfisher) stories from Shakespeare because she LOVED it that much. The rest of us got rather sick f hearing about it though.  :Rolleyes:   :FRlol: 

But it sort of goes hand in hand with idea of teaching primary school kids philosophy and thinking skills doesnt it?

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## Scheherazade

Poor reading and writing skills among graduates are a concern for half of the UK's top employers, a survey suggests. 

The Association of Graduate Recruiters found 56% of the 200 firms surveyed had concerns about a lack of "hard skills" like literacy and leadership. 

The survey found employers were also less likely to trust degree grades as "gold standards" for recruitment. 

It also found starting salaries were not keeping up with inflation but that there were more graduate vacancies. 

This annual survey reflects the type of labour market facing graduates - and this year shows a mixed picture of continued growth tinged with a growing uncertainty over earnings. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7494172.stm

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## Sweets America

> Oh my God. What has this world come to? This just infuriates my conservative heart.  Unreal.


You don't need to be conservative to be infuriated.  :Tongue:  I find this totally unbelievable too. I had already read something similar a while ago and some people thought it was false when I told them! (which is understandable!) That is just crazy.

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## Nightshade

> Poor reading and writing skills among graduates are a concern for half of the UK's top employers, a survey suggests. 
> 
> The Association of Graduate Recruiters found 56% of the 200 firms surveyed had concerns about a lack of "hard skills" like literacy and leadership. 
> 
> The survey found employers were also less likely to trust degree grades as "gold standards" for recruitment. 
> 
> It also found starting salaries were not keeping up with inflation but that there were more graduate vacancies. 
> 
> This annual survey reflects the type of labour market facing graduates - and this year shows a mixed picture of continued growth tinged with a growing uncertainty over earnings. 
> ...


Which links nicly into my current RL rant which is information literacy and how it si a basic skill in todays world that people are shockingly lacking in!
 :Nod:

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## Scheherazade

A Norfolk headteacher has said there have been no exclusions from his school since he started rewarding pupils with chocolate for good behaviour. 

Dr Andrew Sheppard began the scheme in 2005, since when exclusion days at Redcastle Furze Primary in Thetford have dropped from 65 a year to zero. 

Critics said he was contributing to childhood obesity and dental problems. 

But Dr Sheppard said: "It has improved behaviour, they are polite and... they have a sense of responsibility." 

In September 2005, Dr Sheppard pledged to give all 240 pupils a bar of chocolate if they made it to the half time break without any exclusions. 

The scheme proved so successful it was extended term by term. Since then discos, picnics and Easter eggs have been handed out. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/7513320.stm

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## Virgil

> A Norfolk headteacher has said there have been no exclusions from his school since he started rewarding pupils with chocolate for good behaviour. 
> 
> Dr Andrew Sheppard began the scheme in 2005, since when exclusion days at Redcastle Furze Primary in Thetford have dropped from 65 a year to zero.


Hey no wonder you give out kit kats Scher.  :Smile:   :Smile:  




> Critics said he was contributing to childhood obesity and dental problems.


I really hate critics. How much is he giving out? Come on. This guy found a solution which has helped keep students attentive and on good behavior. 




> But Dr Sheppard said: "It has improved behaviour, they are polite and... they have a sense of responsibility." 
> 
> In September 2005, Dr Sheppard pledged to give all 240 pupils a bar of chocolate if they made it to the half time break without any exclusions. 
> 
> The scheme proved so successful it was extended term by term. Since then discos, picnics and Easter eggs have been handed out.


Three cheers for Dr. Sheppard.  :Thumbs Up:   :Thumbs Up:   :Thumbs Up:

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## Scheherazade

Almost one in five teenage pupils surveyed for a police study said they had carried a weapon in the past year. 

The survey of 1,426 14 and 15-year-olds by Portsmouth University researchers suggested only 5% took these to school. 

Some 60% of those who carried a weapon said they did so for self-defence, while 30% said they had done so during activities with the Scouts or cadets. 

Only 20 of the youngsters surveyed admitted carrying a weapon for the purposes of an attack. 

The study was carried out among pupils in Southampton last November and was commissioned by Hampshire Police after the fatal stabbing of two young people in the city. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7519136.stm


Well, this brings the "excitement" back into teaching!

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## motherhubbard

That's pretty scary. I wonder what weapons means? I know that in this area most boy over the age of 8 or 10 will have a pocket knife and probably a good portion of the girls. Do you think that would count as a weapon? The part that is most frightening is the 20% that carried to attack. That’s horrible.

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## Scheherazade

Recently there has been a sudden increase in knife crimes in the UK. I used to think that these would be somewhat like kitchen knives but then I watched a CCTV video in the news and they are talking about knives that I, with my very limited knowledge of weapons, would describe as "swords"!

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## motherhubbard

Swords?!? I would have thought something like switchblades. how do they get those in their backpacks? Do you remember the highlander? are all of the kids wearing trench coats?

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## Scheherazade

One in five UK adults struggles with reading and writing. In an age of e-mail, texts and form-filling, how is it possible to hide illiteracy? Linda Worden, who's learned to read and write as part of a Channel 4 series, explains how she managed to keep it a secret for 40 years...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7532834.stm

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## Virgil

> One in five UK adults struggles with reading and writing. In an age of e-mail, texts and form-filling, how is it possible to hide illiteracy? Linda Worden, who's learned to read and write as part of a Channel 4 series, explains how she managed to keep it a secret for 40 years...
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7532834.stm


I hear similar in the US. It's really hard to believe but I guess it's true. Obviously teachers pass these students along. That is a shame. They are not doing them a favor at all.

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## Scheherazade

It is rarely teachers who are passing them along, actually, Virgil. The education system is becoming as such that students do not fail anymore (at least not before they reach college level). Nowadays, teachers are expected to teach mixed ability classes and, hence, required to provide material suitable at each individual student's level. So, if a student is not doing so well, s/he gets simpler material compared to those who are really doing at the level they are expected to. I have to admit that the opposite is also true; ie, if a student is doing well above their class level, then s/he gets material suitable for their level, even if it means that they are working couple of years ahead of their age.

Having said that, it is one of those sad but true cases. I have had many students who could barely read or write (some do not even know their alphabet). Some are dyslexic or suffering from another form of learning difficulty which was not picked on while they were younger (some might lose their ability due to a stroke etc and might have to start all over again, unfortunately). Yet, there are many simply did not learn and could never get any help.

Still, it is great that for those who would like to give themselves another chance, there are opportunities.  :Smile:

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## blazeofglory

> That's interesting, and worrying.
> In addition to problems with punctuation, I've noticed that the kids I tutor don't know what to do with articles and/or prepositions. I frequently hear "Let's go disco." or "Give me keys."


Even I have these problems by virtue of being a nonnative writer in English. I am still not adequately equipped with the idea of using or applying appropriate prepositions or articles in their right places and that is why I need someone to edit my writings.

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## Virgil

> Even I have these problems by virtue of being a nonnative writer in English. I am still not adequately equipped with the idea of using or applying appropriate prepositions or articles in their right places and that is why I need someone to edit my writings.


Your english seems pretty good Blaze. Most of the time you seem like a native speaker.

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## kasie

The problem of children who are failing in mixed ability classes is not new - some thirty years ago I tried referring a child who was failing abysmally in class, he was no trouble, was content to sit and let classroom activities float over him but he was eight and could barely write his name, though he would try his best, just to please me. I was told there was no chance of his being accepted for remedial classes, he wasn't 'bad enough'. I did what I could for him but he was one out of thirty-seven. Had he been disruptive, he would have been assessed and probably removed to a Special School where he would have stood a better chance of being taught in a small class by a specialist in special needs.

I do so admire those Can't Read, Can't Write participants - not only are they brave enough to try again in a system that has previously failed them, they are letting the viewing public know about their problems. (Not sure about them writing a Shakespearean sonnet, however.....think I'd struggle there myself!)

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## Scheherazade

Common spelling mistakes should be accepted into everyday use, not corrected, a lecturer has said. 

Ken Smith of Bucks New University says the most common mistakes should be accepted as "variant spellings". 

He lists the 10 most commonly misspelt words, which include "arguement" for "argument" and "twelth" for "twelfth". 

Mr Smith says his proposal, outlined in an article in the Times Higher Education Supplement, follows years of correcting the same mistakes. 

Mr Smith, a criminology lecturer, said: "Instead of complaining about the state of the education system as we correct the same mistakes year after year, I've got a better idea. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7546975.stm

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## Virgil

> Common spelling mistakes should be accepted into everyday use, not corrected, a lecturer has said.


What a crock.  :Flare:  This is accepting the lowest common denominator.

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## JBI

Spelling twelfth twelth not on purpose, and being rewarded is just pure stupidity. I get angry at people I know (and some I don't know) for saying 'anyways' instead of anyway. If people used that one, I would probably leave the room.

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## kilted exile

Is this new? I know my spelling/grammar errors were never corrected after I reached 13. I used to know how to correctly use the language but kinda gave up bothering after a while.....

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## barbara0207

Correct spelling is important just because it makes texts more easily readable. And if students' spelling mistakes are accepted, they will never learn how to write correctly. Moreover, they are given the feeling that good spelling (and grammar) is negligible, that they can write however they please. That can make reading very hard - you can see it in young people's contributions to internet forums.

By the way, have you, too, noticed that there are more spelling errors in books - including students' textbooks - than there used to be? Are books no longer edited carefully?

PS: Please forgive my own errors - I do my best, but English is not my first language.  :Biggrin:

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## motherhubbard

it takes money to provide children with a free education. Where is a country left when they can't educate their children? What happens when there is no money left? 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26012346

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## Virgil

> it takes money to provide children with a free education. Where is a country left when they can't educate their children? What happens when there is no money left? 
> 
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26012346


People scoff at economics as if money grows on trees. You don't create money out of nothing. If the the economy is not prospering there is no money for things that don't generate income. Reality is reality.

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## motherhubbard

Education doesn’t generate income for the government, but when we fail to educate it does end up costing the government.

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## qimissung

In the school district I work in, we received word that some new grading policies were going into effect this year, including: accepting all late work, letting a student who flunked a test re-take it as often as he/she needed to until they passed, not giving a homework grade if it lowered the student's average, and we were not supposed to give a zero for a daily grade (that would have to be approved by the principal).

That idea lasted about three days, but there was, thank God, enough of an outcry that they dropped it. My school district is shooting to win the Broad prize for most improved urban school district in 2010, and we are not currently making enough headway. New York City won this prize recently, I believe. (I hope I spelled everything correctly!  :Smile: )

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## wilbur lim

I am literally and inevitably appalled when poeple do not know how to master the fundamentals of English language.Probably they are exuberant of playing online games,which I detest it.By no means they shall be so indolent,they should think of their own precious future.

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## Scheherazade

An exam board is removing a poem about a knife-carrying violent loner from its anthology for GCSE English because of fears over teenage knife crime. 

The AQA exam board has decided to withdraw the poem Education for Leisure written by Carol Ann Duffy. 

The exam board is writing to schools to advise them to destroy the copies of the anthology - and says it will send replacements not containing this poem. 

The poem begins with the line: "Today I am going to kill something. Anything." 

It describes the thoughts of a disturbed, isolated individual who feels underappreciated and undervalued and who kills a fly then a goldfish. The poem concludes with this angry loner going outside with a bread knife. 

More



I have not read or heard of this poem. Though I have found a review here:

http://www.universalteacher.org.uk/a...olannduffy.htm

*If anyone has a copy, could you please PM it to me? Thanks!*

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## Virgil

A description of a fascinating sounding school with an unusual approach. Keep in mind that this is in an Chicago inner city school where the drop must be huge. And Chicago inner city is one of the worse in the country.




> *Making Education Work* 
> by George Will 
> 
> CHICAGO -- Waves of Slovenians, Bohemians, Irish, Italians and others have crested and receded, and today the Pilsen neighborhood of this polyglot city is a heartland Ellis Island, a port of entry for Mexican immigrants. There is a neighborhood school to teach their children important things -- math and history, of course, but also how to navigate a revolving door, how to behave in an elevator, and how to identify the salad fork and the soupspoon. 
> 
> From Cristo Rey Jesuit High School you can see the Sears Tower to the north, where some students work. All the students work somewhere -- at more than 100 companies and law firms -- one day a week, at jobs paying $20 an hour, the money going directly to the school, covering 70 percent of its costs. 
> 
> To work in the Sears Tower, a student must pass through something perhaps not encountered in his or her family's Mexican village or in Pilsen -- a revolving door -- and might have to change elevators en route to the Tower's upper floors. Before going to work, many of the school's 14-year-old ninth-graders, like their parents, have never been downtown. 
> 
> The summer before beginning at CRJHS, ninth-graders go to a behavioral boot camp where they get what David Whitman calls "a dose of cultural imperialism" to inculcate bourgeoisie values, from personal hygiene to table manners. The school believes that some Latino traditions should be tempered: Many of the students had been raised to show respect by speaking quietly and avoiding eye contact while softly shaking hands. That is not how things are done downtown in the city of broad shoulders. Before long, the children are introducing themselves with firm handshakes, and are introducing their parents to the Loop. [Snip]


 http://townhall.com/columnists/Georg...education_work

Just thought you teachers might find it interesting. As to my opinion, this is a great approach. It supports my belief that people in general and kids more specifically need boundaries to avoid dysfunctionality. The US public school system has failed the inner city and all one ever hears from teachers are excuses and that their job is impossible. No, they're approach is wrong.

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## Il Penseroso

> It supports my belief that people in general and kids more specifically need boundaries to avoid dysfunctionality.


you mean we just have to tear down the boundaries their foreign traditions have constructed in order for them to succeed?

how can "cultural imperialism" be construed as a good thing?

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## motherhubbard

Virgil, I think this is a fantastic idea. It sounds like high school that is preparing students to work in the world, and I believe that is something high school should do. It sounds like it targets immigrants, which is a good thing in many ways. But immigrants tend to have a strong work ethic already and are more likely to seek advanced degrees than natural born citizens. 

"The report shows that the children of immigrants attain higher levels of education than their parents -- and indeed, are more likely to attain college degrees and advanced degrees than the children of nonimmigrants."
http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-e...0.1857721.html 


I wish they had a work study program that targeted unemployed, at risk, citizens as well. 

As for cultural imperialism, we’ve come a long way. We no longer punish children for speaking their native languages and we are no longer segregated. There will always be room for improvement, but cultural pluralism and acceptance is a big deal.

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## Virgil

> you mean we just have to tear down the boundaries their foreign traditions have constructed in order for them to succeed?
> 
> how can "cultural imperialism" be construed as a good thing?


I think the cultural imperialism comment was a little tongue in cheek. What exactly is cultural imperialism? They are being guided into American norms. They are after all in America. I suppose they or their parents don't have to accept it. No one is forcing them into this school. It is volentary. The students are given three hours of homework per night, gven a tough college oriented curriculum, pushed into part time after school jobs, and not passed along for the sake of passing. Sounds like a great education to me.

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## Il Penseroso

> volentary


tssk tssk!!  :Smile: 




> I think the cultural imperialism comment was a little tongue in cheek. What exactly is cultural imperialism? They are being guided into American norms. They are after all in America. I suppose they or their parents don't have to accept it. No one is forcing them into this school. It is volentary. The students are given three hours of homework per night, gven a tough college oriented curriculum, pushed into part time after school jobs, and not passed along for the sake of passing. Sounds like a great education to me.


Maybe in practice this comes across better than the description as far as the indoctrination scheme, but I just have concerns that this could easily go too far (as these kind of ideas have so often in the past). I think it's also important for these students to understand that their individual cultural upbringing has validity, particularly in today's global economy.

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## qimissung

"And all one ever hears from teachers is excuses and that their job is impossible." Those are fighting words, Virgil. I happen to work in one of those inner city schools, and it is indeed difficult, although I wouldn't go so far as to call it impossible. In fact I am, this year, teaching the lowest of the low, the students who failed our state-mandated Reading/Language Arts test. The ninth grade level test, I have heard, is actually written at the seventh grade level.

Last year only 66% of my regular English I students passed this test. And I promise you we worked very hard on skills for that test. It is a difficult task; please do not read one article and then decry its' difficulty and blame the teachers. From what I have seen of the educational system in my city they are the least to blame. There are many factors that go into the making of a well-educated person.

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## Virgil

We're just going to have to disagree qimi. I don't balme the individual teachers, I balme the system itself. Of course its complicated. All I can say is it's not working and all I ever hear from teacher's unions is a conitunation of the status quo. You can work doubly hard and you will not see appricable results. Something needs to change in the approach to teaching from a systemic level.

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## qimissung

I agree, and I wouldn't listen to unions. It is a systemic problem. If you want to lay some blame, I would look at administrations, from the highest echelons to those in the schools themselves. I've been in this awhile, and they are really terrible at their jobs. I've only worked for one good principal, and they (his superiors) ran him off. And honestly, they really went into super terrrible mode after 'No Child Left Behind,' They are afraid and they don't know what to do. I spoke with a consultant at our school and she actually said that to me.

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## Scheherazade

Diligent students at Bournemouth University want to get their work done 
University students are complaining they cannot get enough work done because fellow students are hogging computers to use Facebook and Twitter. 

Bournemouth University Student Union has said some computers should be marked for academic use only. 

Final year students who need to use university computers have said they cannot access them for important work. 

But university officials say social networking sites are also sometimes used for legitimate academic reasons. 

The Student Union says it will display polite notices on the computers, asking students not to spend time on social networking sites while others wish to work. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7976107.stm

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## Scheherazade

Schools are employing bouncers to "crowd control" classes in teachers' absence, a union conference has heard. 

A London teacher told the National Union of Teachers annual conference he knew of a school that had gone to an agency to recruit two bouncers. 

One left after a month after falling out with staff but the other was still employed, he said - the school wanting someone "stern and loud". 

The government said cover staff should only be used as a short-term solution. 

The union wants all lessons to be taken by qualified teachers but says there are likely to be more cover supervisors taking lessons in future. 


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7995869.stm

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## Scheherazade

Teacher training applicants in England are to face psychometric tests before being offered a place on a course, to ensure they are well suited to the job.

The Training and Development Agency for Schools is developing tests for skills such as communication and empathy. 

The government asked for an assessment to be developed amid concern at a lack of "softer" skills among teachers. 

But the Association of Teachers and Lecturers criticised the idea as an "expensive gimmick". 

The Department for Children, Schools and Families requested a test which would "assess suitability to be a teacher", the TDA said. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8120550.stm

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## Scheherazade

Teachers think they can tell which pupils are likely to play up by looking at their names, a survey suggests.

The poll of 3,000 teachers found more than one in three expected pupils with certain names to be more disruptive. 

Pupils called Callum, Connor, Jack, Chelsea, Courtney and Chardonnay were among some of the ones to watch. 

The online survey by parenting club Bounty.com found 49% of UK teachers made assumptions about a child when they first looked down the register. 

But it is not all bad news, with 57% of the teachers surveyed saying the naughtier children tended to be more popular than their better behaved peers. 

More than a third said the naughtiest pupils were often the brightest and the more sensitive. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8243684.stm

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## Scheherazade

Technology addiction among young people is having a disruptive effect on their learning, researchers have warned.

Their report concluded that modern gadgets worsened pupils' spelling and concentration, encouraged plagiarism and disrupted lessons. 

The study of 267 pupils aged 11 to 18 found 63% felt addicted to the internet and 53% to their mobile phones. 

The research said technology drove a social lifestyle that involved a strong desire to keep in touch with friends. 

....

Three hours on the mobile

They found 62% first used or owned a computer before the age of eight, 80% first used the internet between the ages of five and 10, 58% first used a mobile phone between the ages of eight and 10 and 58% have had access to a social networking sites between the ages of eleven and 13. 

Over half (53.2%) indicated they spent up to around 30 minutes a day on their mobile, while 17% said they spent at least three hours on their mobile. Just over one in five (20.2%) said they left the phone on in lessons - which is usually forbidden by schools. 

Over 30% reported spending between one to two hours a day using the internet and 26% said they spent up to six or more hours a day. 

On average, pupils said they spent between one and two hours on social networking sites each day. 

Pupils said they sent more e-mails than they received and the majority said they sent and/or received up to 20 texts a day. 

Over a third (39%) admitted that text shortcuts damaged the quality of their written English, particularly when it came to spelling. 

And 84% openly admitted copying chunks of information from the internet into their homework or projects on a number of occasions. 

Pupils said the internet was by far the largest source of information for such work, with over 90% saying they used it compared with 43% who said books. 

Poor attention levels

Professor Andrew Kakabadse from Cranfield School of Management said: "Over 60% of the respondents admitted to being 'very' or 'quite' addicted to the internet, while over 50% are addicted to their mobile phones." 

Dr Nada Kakabadse from Northampton Business School said modern technology, such as mobile phones and handheld computer games, was having an impact on pupils' attention levels. 

"They are hiding these things under the desks so their concentration cannot be equally divided, they are not focusing on what's going on in class. 

"They can't get motivated to read for a long period of time." 

Dr Kakabadse said pupils were also getting into a bad habit of plagiarism. 

"For their homework, instead of reading the book, they go on the internet and lift it, rather than reading it and understanding it and putting it in their own words." 

She also raised concerns about the text-messaging abbreviations to which young people had grown accustomed. 

"They have invented a new language. This kind of abbreviation they unconsciously bring into their assignments. 

"So they will have difficulty communicating with others and making themselves understood. Of course, language should evolve but maybe not so quickly." 

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8256490.stm

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## Virgil

Fascinating article Scher. As to this: "Their report concluded that modern gadgets worsened pupils' spelling and concentration," I can definitely personally attest to that. You don't have to be a young person to be affected by that.  :Biggrin:

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## Scheherazade

A university leader has caused controversy by saying curvy female students are a "perk of the job".

Terence Kealey, of the University of Buckingham, said lecturers were aware of females who "flaunted their curves". 

In a tongue-in-cheek article for Times Higher Education Magazine on the seven deadly sins of academia, he advised academics to "look but not touch". 

The National Union of Students condemned the comments as insulting and disrespectful to women. 

Dr Kealey, a clinical bio-chemist and vice-chancellor of Buckingham University, likened the classroom to a lap dancing club and said admiring the curves of attractive students could help "spice up" marital sex. 

In his article about the sin of lust, Dr Kealey wrote: "Most male lecturers know that, most years, there will be a girl in class who flashes her admiration and who asks for advice on her essays. 

"What to do? Enjoy her! She's a perk." 

Referring to characters from Middlemarch by George Eliot and The History Man by Malcolm Bradbury, he added: "She doesn't yet know that you are only Casaubon to her Dorothea, Howard Kirk to her Felicity Phee, and she will flaunt you her curves. 

"Which you should admire daily to spice up your sex, nightly, with the wife." 

Dr Kealey recalled the days when sex between student and tutor, in return for academic favours, could go by unchecked. 

"Thanks to the accountability imposed by the Quality Assurance Agency [the university watchdog] and other intrusive bodies, the days are gone when a scholar could trade sex for upgrades." 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8270475.stm

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## isidro

As a parent I advocate home teaching and/or charter schools. Yes, the public schools do not like that in view of losing money, but I am more interested in education. Parents and teachers ought to be encouraged to learn themselves and include their students and kids in what they learn themselves. And while we so often blame the schools and political systems, where are the parents? Why don't they take some of the brunt and blame? Who, after all, never taught their kids to read before they went to school? I understand when the parents are immigrants or single parents trying to do everything at once, but we have an epidemic of parents who are more interested in watching TV than taking their children to the library, who use the TV to entertain their children from their infancy instead of spending time with them and instilling a love of learning. Impossible? Nay. My three year old loves opera, speaks two languages and is starting to read. My two year old speaks two languages, knows basic astronomy, and can count to twenty. 

Mothers argue that they were not cut out to be moms and therefore can't do this. I say that those are the mothers who best can. Those who didn't want to have kids due to careers and pursuit of further learning are the ones who can teach their kids the best. I didn't want kids initially either, but sometimes you have to just step up to the plate. So let's give the teachers a break for a minute and take a good look at the homes and importance of parental involvement.

I would hate to be viewed as a perk, I think.

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## Virgil

> As a parent I advocate home teaching and/or charter schools. Yes, the public schools do not like that in view of losing money, but I am more interested in education. Parents and teachers ought to be encouraged to learn themselves and include their students and kids in what they learn themselves. And while we so often blame the schools and political systems, where are the parents? Why don't they take some of the brunt and blame? Who, after all, never taught their kids to read before they went to school? I understand when the parents are immigrants or single parents trying to do everything at once, but we have an epidemic of parents who are more interested in watching TV than taking their children to the library, who use the TV to entertain their children from their infancy instead of spending time with them and instilling a love of learning. Impossible? Nay. My three year old loves opera, speaks two languages and is starting to read. My two year old speaks two languages, knows basic astronomy, and can count to twenty. 
> 
> Mothers argue that they were not cut out to be moms and therefore can't do this. I say that those are the mothers who best can. Those who didn't want to have kids due to careers and pursuit of further learning are the ones who can teach their kids the best. I didn't want kids initially either, but sometimes you have to just step up to the plate. So let's give the teachers a break for a minute and take a good look at the homes and importance of parental involvement.
> 
> I would hate to be viewed as a perk, I think.


Good post Isi. If the school system lets your kid down or you don't care for the values they project, parents should take matters into their own hands.

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## motherhubbard

> And while we so often blame the schools and political systems, where are the parents?


Amen!

I support public and charter schools. I think that a child's education is the parent's responsibility, not the states, and that schools are the just tools. The school has a responsibility, but the buck stops with the parent. If you leave 100% of your child's education up to someone else you're making a mistake. 




> Mothers argue that they were not cut out to be moms and therefore can't do this. I say that those are the mothers who best can.


I can't say I completely agree with this. I always wanted to be a mother and my kids all read before going to school. I think any mother willing to do her best will do a good job.




> So let's give the teachers a break for a minute and take a good look at the homes and importance of parental involvement.


Parental involvement is the single greatest factor in school success.

Thanks for posting!

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## Gladys

> ...schools are just the tools


Teachers can afford so little one-on-one time with students, with crowd control a major distraction. What a shame that schools and teachers so rarely see education as an _equal partnership_ with parents. 

Since one of my twin boys read fluently at two years and the other at three and a half, primary school offered little more than child-minding. Now in the final year of high school, I’m finding that direct parental input remains invaluable.

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## samantha20

Hi, I'm new to this thread and it was very interesting to read what all of you have been saying. I am kind of planning and hoping to become a teacher right now (although it might not happen due to circumstances). Where I live, for as long as I can remember, everyone is talking about how the education in this country is in serious trouble. There are so many controversial issues relating to education and I just can't figure out what must be done to improve the situation. It's so complicated it seems like there isn't any absolute solution to it and there's bound to be some side-effects to every 'solution' that's suggested.. 

This is my major problem! I just can't seem to have a strong point of view in things.. (not just education) And sometimes I get tired of my indecision!

But this I can say for sure. Education at school can't be brought up to its fullest without help from students' homes. Although if circumstances don't allow, the school has to do its best.

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## Paulclem

I used to teach Reception kids in Primary school in England - Reception is 4-5 year olds. 

It was clear that when a kid came into school that the ones who had had some parental input started with an advantage that they never lost. 

I think the problem with putting the onus upon mothers/fathers is that some are pretty young and inexperienced themselves. It is very easy for an educated and confident person to take up their Kid's education in tandem with the school. Parents may want the best for their kids, whatever social stratum they come from, but simply be unsure of how to go about this. I'm not saying there aren't negligent and disinterested parents about - of course there are - but it is too easy to lump them all together. 

Saying my kids can do this and my kids can do that- why can't other people's kids? is a little unfair. Their skills come from you, and I'm very happy for them too, but you can't use this as an argument against other parents. 

In England there has been a lot of investment in pre-school kids including schemes to include young mothers in their child's education. This has to be part of an improvement in education.

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## Gladys

> I think the problem with putting the onus upon mothers/fathers is that some are pretty young and inexperienced themselves.


That's why educating parents and expecting their participation is so helpful.




> Saying my kids can do this and my kids can do that- why can't other people's kids? is a little unfair. Their skills come from you...


While some skill comes by nature, some by nurture, all parents should be encouraged, if not coerced, to nurture their children. I'm inclined to believe that most children can succeed academically, until proven otherwise. 




> In England there has been a lot of investment in pre-school kids including schemes to include young mothers in their child's education.


Living in England when this investment was mooted, I am pleased to hear of its success.

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## Paulclem

[QUOTE=Gladys;797038]That's why educating parents and expecting their participation is so helpful.



While some skill comes by nature, some by nurture, all parents should be encouraged, if not coerced, to nurture their children. I'm inclined to believe that most children can succeed academically, until proven otherwise. 

I too believe in the ability of children to be educated. I agree that parents should be encouraged - I'm not sure how you coerce parents to educate their children when some will not be up to the job. We get many parents coming to us for literacy classes so they can learn to read write etc better to be able to keep up with and contribute to their kids education. For all those that come, you can bet many more don't. By using the word coerce I think you are betraying a belief that parents could teach their kids if they really wanted to. The problem is much more complicated than you suggest and is closely linked to poverty.

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## Gladys

> By using the word coerce I think you are betraying a belief that parents could teach their kids if they really wanted to. The problem is much more complicated than you suggest and is closely linked to poverty.


I not only 'believe in the ability of children to be educated' but also in the ability of all parents to educate. Neither illiteracy nor poverty precludes parents contributing much to the education of their children. For instance, teaching a child to think, to organise, to learn, to persevere, and to communicate are within the capability of most poor or illiterate parents. 

As for coercion, we already coerce parents to present their children to school and to exercise some restraint on behaviour.

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## motherhubbard

Have either of you read A Framework for Understanding Poverty by Ruby K. Payne?

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## Gladys

> Have either of you read A Framework for Understanding Poverty by Ruby K. Payne?


 I've just read a summary of the book on WIkEd. 

In speaking of poverty I was focussed on Australia which, I understand, has a more generous welfare safety-net for the unemployed and for financially disadvantaged parents than that in the US. I do understand that extremes of poverty are likely to have dire educational consequences, and that children are educationally advantaged higher up the class ladder. 

The educational challenges for working class children are considerable, but for the destitute, extreme. Still, a better education offers a glimmer of hope.

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## Lynne50

> For instance, teaching a child to think, to organise, to learn, to persevere, and to communicate are within the capability of most poor or illiterate parents. 
> 
> .


 I'm not sure that is true all the time. I work with Kindergarten children and you would be surprised how many children try to do their homework alone. And very often, their 'Homework Folder' is not returned or signed. Working parents are very stressed these days and often kindergarten homework is not high on the to-do list. It is very sad. Organizational skills are lacking with parents. We are seeing, too, more and more children starting school with language deficits because parents don't have the time to have conversations with their children. Most of the time, parents tell children.. "Hang up your coat, eat your dinner, brush your teeth", etc. instead of having one to one interactions. If all parents had these fundamental skills, teachers and administrators would have much easier jobs, however, often that is just not the case. I think, *Gladys.* you probably would take your parenting very seriously, and so you are already starting from the 'ideal' place, but many parents are really ill-equipped for the job.

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## Paulclem

> I not only 'believe in the ability of children to be educated' but also in the ability of all parents to educate. Neither illiteracy nor poverty precludes parents contributing much to the education of their children. For instance, teaching a child to think, to organise, to learn, to persevere, and to communicate are within the capability of most poor or illiterate parents. 
> 
> As for coercion, we already coerce parents to present their children to school and to exercise some restraint on behaviour.


Have you ever met anyone who is lliterate? I can tell you that the shame and fear they feel about school would present a great trial for them. How can an illiterate person teach a child how to learn? The problem that parents who are illiterate, or who have had a poor eucation, (which is more likely), is that they don't understand how to learn themselves. How can they then feel confident about teaching a child? 

I'm afraid that you have an idealistic view. The parents we are talking about, as has been said, may have many problems including drug, alcohol, organisational, financial and problems with mental health. These are the extremes, but in some areas of deprivation there is a significant proportion. That is without taking into account the second language speakers and parents who are still children themselves, those who work long hours or have learning difficulties. These examples are not plucked out of the air, but are real parents I can think of in my small experience of teaching in an inner city. 

As for coercion, what kind of coercion would you suggest? The "coercion" of having to attend school doesn't work in prompting these parents to teach their kids. Coecion often has repercussions for the very people you want to encourage - the kids.

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## Gladys

> I can tell you that the shame and fear they feel about school would present a great trial for them. How can an illiterate person teach a child how to learn?


I suspect the _majority_ of literate, working class parents feel 'shame and fear' in their dealings with middle class teachers. Since parents are _the most important factor_ in a child's educational success, schools ought to address these negative emotions through aggressive cooperation with those parents that care. Such cooperation would require a revolution in education administration and objectives.




> The parents we are talking about, as has been said, may have many problems including drug, alcohol, organisational, financial and problems with mental health.


Obviously, many parents will be unable or unwilling to form a partnership with school. Those that do will eventually encourage others to join them. In China, for instance, poor families have a much higher involvement in their children's education. Our culture can evolve in this direction. 




> I work with Kindergarten children and you would be surprised how many children try to do their homework alone. And very often, their 'Homework Folder' is not returned or signed. Working parents are very stressed these days and often kindergarten homework is not high on the to-do list. It is very sad.


Sadly, some children _are_ beyond rescue. Schools should reach out, at least weekly, to those disadvantaged parents that do care. Token communication once or twice a year is worthless. Teachers should spend much less time teaching and much more empowering parents! An inclusive educational culture will, in time, shift parental attitudes across the nation. Does this make me an idealist?  :Smile: 




> As for coercion, what kind of coercion would you suggest? The "coercion" of having to attend school doesn't work in prompting these parents to teach their kids.


Coercion of intransigents could be as subtle as 'education leave' from work, tax breaks, resource handouts or fun excursions for those parents that cooperate with schools.

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## Paulclem

> I suspect the _majority_ of literate, working class parents feel 'shame and fear' in their dealings with middle class teachers. Since parents are _the most important factor_ in a child's educational success, schools ought to address these negative emotions through aggressive cooperation with those parents that care. Such cooperation would require a revolution in education administration and objectives.
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, many parents will be unable or unwilling to form a partnership with school. Those that do will eventually encourage others to join them. In China, for instance, poor families have a much higher involvement in their children's education. Our culture can evolve in this direction. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can sympathise more with these thoughts Gladys. I agree with many of your points. What is needed is structural support, rather than just the expectation that parents can and will contribute, as has been the case so far in schools. 

I also agree that a shift in attitudes and the structure of schools would be better. Too many kids come out of the One-Stop-Shop that is school with a negative attitude to education and qualifications that are a poor reflection of their ability. (I speak of England here, but I think there are similar problems elsewhere). I know that parents do have a massive input into a child's education for better or worse. It's about attitude as well as activity.

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## Scheherazade

More than 400 people have signed a petition calling for a Somerset school to stop teaching the US cartoon series The Simpsons in lessons.

The opening sequence and an episode are being covered in the media module of the course at Kingsmead Community School, in Wiveliscombe.

The school said the show demonstrated use of language in the media.

Parent Joseph Reynolds said it was not the right quality of learning material for his daughter and her classmates.

Mr Reynolds collected signatures for his petition in the local community, but the school's governors upheld the school's decision to continue teaching the cartoon.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-10697272

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## Paulclem

I agree with the school about this. I find the Simpsons humour quite sophisticated at times, and it's fun for the kids. After all it's a media module and not literature. Perhaps he could set up his own school now that the Gig Society has been mooted.

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## Scheherazade

An "unfortunate error" meant maths students were set a question that was impossible to answer in an AS-level exam.

Just under 6,800 teenagers took the paper - set by the OCR exam body - last Thursday.

OCR has apologised, saying it will make sure candidates are not disadvantaged by the mistake.

But some students writing on social networking sites have been calling for the test to be re-run.

The error was in an exam paper taken in 335 schools and other exam centres in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Stress 
The question carried eight marks out of 72 being awarded for the paper. 

One candidate Thomas Fay, who contacted the BBC News website said he had been distressed to find a question that appeared "impossible". 

"This threw me in the exam and many people found this to cause much added stress in the exam," he added. 


"Many people are worried that the mistake made by the examining board will severely affect the mark and grade they achieve in the paper. For many this was a final exam and will most likely influence final grades and university admission."

...

A spokeswoman said: "We very much regret that there was a mistake... and that our quality assurance procedures failed to identify this error. 

"Because we have been alerted to this so early, we are able to take this error into account when marking the paper. We will also take it into account when setting the grade boundaries. We have sent a letter to all schools and colleges explaining in more detail what we shall do.

"We do apologise again that this has happened."

The exam body says it is not going to discount the question from the marking, because that might disadvantage candidates who spent a lot of time trying to answer it.

Students will be awarded points for their attempts to work out the question and measures are also in place which are designed to recognise that other candidates may have discovered the error quickly, OCR says.

OCR released full details of the error - on paper "Decision Mathematics 1" - as follows: 

The question as printed asked candidates to verify the shortest route, for two given conditions, giving values of 32.4 + 2x km and 34.2 + x km. These values should have been 34.3 + 2x km and 36.1 + x km respectively. The error was not to have included twice the journey between A and B (0.9 km) and the journey between F and G (1.0 km) in the values given.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-13627415

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## Writer10

> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1945751.ece
> 
> 
> hey, those articles you guys have posted sound really interesting, will have to read them some time.


This is the saddest part that school going children have to face. Not even those children are bullied who have learning disabilities even students with certain accent are picked up upon!
There must be some guidance and protection for these students before it goes out of hand!

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## SFG75

> Have either of you read A Framework for Understanding Poverty by Ruby K. Payne?


If anyone teaches, this is a MUST read. Public schools are a creation and creature of their respective communities. If you want to understand the "mind frame" of families and students from completely different backgrounds, this book is absolutely necessary. Behavior that doesn't make sense to you based on your own upbringing, becomes very clear and people of other backgrounds can equally see why you would make the decisions that you do. An effective teacher understands the social realities that individuals students face.

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## myanime002

Where the rest goes: Lawyers and beauracracy. Likewise remember that is a normal. Rationally crippled understudies cost as much as $50k per student, simply because their folks decline to trust they are unique and request they go to indistinguishable schools from every other person. It winds up being celebrated keeping an eye on should be possible for considerably less expensive.

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