# Art > Art & Art History >  mythology and religion in art

## ftil

I have decided to open a new tread. I want to explore mythology and religion in art. I have moved my posts from Ovid tread as I have a different approach to art and mythology. Paintings have own language and I can't agree with " authority" interpretation. I am not interested in influencing others what I think but I want encourage you to read the language of paintings and ask questions. I can promise that you will have thousands of questions.  :Ihih:  Religion has always been a source of division. Perhaps, there is freedom from it so that we can bypass it, enjoying unity. I strongly believe that!  :Hurray: 




> PSYCHE was the goddess of the soul, wife of Eros the god of love.
> 
> She was once a mortal princess whose astounding beauty earned the ire of Aphrodite when men turned their worship from goddess to girl. Aphrodite commanded Eros make Psyche fall in love with the most hideous of men, but the god himself fell in love with her and carried her away to his secret palace. However Eros hid his true identity, and commanded her never to look upon his face. Psyche was eventually tricked by her jealous sisters into gazing upon the face of god, and he abandoned her. In her despair, she searched throughout the world for her lost love, and eventually came into the service of Aphrodite. The goddess commanded her perform a series of difficult labours which culminated in a journey to the Underworld. In the end Psyche was reunited with Eros and the couple wed in a ceremony attended by the gods.
> 
> Psyche was depicted in ancient mosaics as a butterfly winged goddess in the company of her husband Eros. Sometimes a pair of Psyche are portrayed, the second perhaps being their daughter Hedone (Pleasure.)
> http://www.theoi.com/Ouranios/Psykhe.html







EROS & PSYCHE

Antakya Museum, Antakya, Turkey Date: C3rd AD
Period: Imperial Roman

SUMMARY

Butterfly-winged Psyche (Soul) steals the bow and arrows of the sleeping dove-winged god Eros (Love).






EROS & PSYCHE

Antakya Museum, Antakya, Turkey,Date: C3rd AD


SUMMARY

The winged god Eros (love personified) stands on the butterfly wings of two Psykhai (Souls) flitting across the sea, driving them with a whip. The two Psykhai of myth were named Psykhe and Hedone.

Psyche in Greek mean soul.

*The Abduction of Psyche Adolphe William Bouguereau*


Pan and Psyche, Sir Edward Coley Burne-Jones



Angelica Kauffmann, The Legend of Cupid and Psyche




*Micheal Parkes*





*Soul in Bondage, Elihu Vedder We see a butterfly again.*



Let's look at Morgan art.

*The Kingdom of Heaven Suffereth Violence and the Violent Take it by Force, Evelyn De Morgan*




*Queen Katherine's Dream 2 William Blake*








*Jacob's Ladder, William Blake*







*Edward Burne-Jones, The Golden Stairs*




*The Captives, Evelyn de Morgan*





We have a butterfly again and a man with horn. There is a frog on the top of his head. In Egyptian religion the eight deities were arranged in four female-male pairs, the females were associated with snakes and the males were associated with frogs: Naunet and Nu, Amaunet and Amun, Kauket and Kuk, Hauhet and Huh.



*Micheal Parkes*






Look at butterfly, and a girl with a chain. Who is keeping the key?





Another quite disturbing painting. 









Good and Evil Angels Struggling for the Possession of a Child, William Blake






An Angel and a Devil Fighting for the Soul of a Child, Giacinto Gimignani






The Snake Charmer, Jean Léone Gérôme





*The Nude Snake Charmer, Paul Desire Trouillebert*



Let's look at mythology at god Pan and Satyr.





> THE SATYROI (or Satyrs) were rustic fertility daimones (spirits) of the wilderness and countryside. They were close companions of the gods Dionysos, Rheia, Gaia, Hermes and Hephaistos; and mated with the tribes of Nymphai in the mountain wilds.
> 
> Satyroi were depicted as animal-like men with the tail of a horse, assine ears, upturned pug noses, reclining hair-lines, and erect members. As companions of Dionysos they were usually shown drinking, dancing, playing tambourines and flutes (the instruments of the Bacchic orgy) and sporting with Nymphai. Men dressed up as Satyroi formed the choruses of the so-called Satyr-plays which were performed at the festivals of the god Dionysos.
> 
> Some other closely related rustic spirits include the Panes (goat-legged satyrs), Seilenoi (elderly satyrs), Satyriskoi (child satyrs), and Tityroi (flute-playing satyrs).
> http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/Satyroi.html







DIONYSOS & SATYR
Date: ca 500 - 480 BC 

SUMMARY

Dionysos reclines beside a flute playing Satyros. The god holds a drinking cup in his hands and is crowned with a wreath of ivy. The Satyros has the usual features of his kind: horse's tail and ears, pug nose, balding head.







> *PAN* was the god of shepherds and flocks, of mountain wilds, hunting and rustic music. He wandered the hills and mountains of Arkadia *playing his pan-pipes and chasing Nymphs.* His unseen presence aroused feelings of panic in men passing through the remote, lonely places of the wilds.
> 
> The god was a lover of nymphs, who commonly fled from his advances. Syrinx ran and was transformed into a clump of reeds, out of which the god crafted his famous pan-pipes. Pitys escaped and was turned into a mountain fir, the god's sacred tree. Ekho spurned his advances and fading away left behind only her voice to repeat forever the mountain cries of the god.
> 
> Pan was depicted as a man with the horns, legs and tail of a goat, and with thick beard, snub nose and pointed ears. He was often appears in the retinue of Dionysos alongside the other rustic gods. Greeks in the classical age associated his name with the word pan meaning "all". However, it true origin lies in an old Arkadian word for rustic.
> 
> Pan was frequently identified with other similar rustic gods such as Aristaios, the shepherd-god of northern Greece, who like Pan was titled both Agreus (the hunter) and Nomios (the shepherd); as well as with the pipe-playing Phrygian satyr Marsyas; and Aigipan, the goat-fish god of the constellation Capricorn. Sometimes Pan was multiplied into a host of Panes, or a triad named Agreus, Nomios, and Phorbas.
> http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/Pan.html






PAN & PITYS

Museum Collection: Antakya Museum, Antakya, Turkey 
Period: Imperial Roman

SUMMARY

The goat-legged god Pan sneaks up on a sleeping Nymph, probably either Ekho or Pitys. Above her flits a winged Eros (love god).




SUMMARY

Detail of Pan picking grapes from a vase depiction of Dionysos and his retinue.


PAN
Date: C1st AD
Period: Imperial Roman

SUMMARY

The rustic god Pan sits on a mountain rock, playing a set of his namesake pan-pipes. The god is shown with the horns of a goat, but is otherwise human in form. He has an animal skin cloak draped over one arm


*Albrecht Durer, 1505*











*Pan, Louvre. Paris*







*Lord Leighton's fine illustration from the July 1860 Cornhill Magazine*


Pan has changed his appearance. 






*James Pradier : Satyr and Bacchante*





Satyr also looks differently. 

*Apollo And Marsyas Satyr, Pietro Vannucci*




modern art 

*Micheal Cheval, Magic flute*








double post, sorry




*The oldest picture of the Pied Piper copied from the glass window of the Market Church in Hameln/Hamelin Germany (c.1300-1633)*











Let's look at god Pan

Alexander Pope (21 May 1688  30 May 1744) was an 18th-century English poet, best known for his satirical verse and for his translation of Homer.


Alexander Pope




> Windsor-Forest
> 
> Not proud Olympus yields a nobler sight,
> Tho' gods assembled grace his tow'ring height,
> Than what more humble mountains offer here,
> Where, in their blessings, all those Gods appear.
> *See Pan with flocks,* with fruits Pomona crown'd,
> Here blushing Flora paints th' enamel'd ground,
> Here Ceres' gifts in waving prospect stand,
> ...









*Peter Paul Rubens, Pan and Syrinx, 1617-1619
*



*Nicolas Poussin, Pan and Syrinx 1637-38*





*Diana and her Nymphs Surprised by the Fauns, Peter Paul Rubens*







*Julio Romano*





I don't know the name of the artist but it comes from http://witchcraft-supplies.com/Statues_Gods.html 

Pan Dancing with Nymphs






*Faun and Nixe, Franz von Stuck*



So , let's look at transition of god Pan, Satyr and Cupid.

So, Cupid became a dark angel.  :Hand: 

*Cupid and Psyche, by Jean Baptiste Regnault, (1828)*






*Cupid and Psyche by ORAZIO GENTILESCHI*




*Cupid and Psyche, by Benjamin West*




*Cupid and Psyche by ORAZIO GENTILESCHI* 





Pan has transformed into a little angel.  :Biggrin: 

Whoever you are, here is your master (or Love the Conquerer) So, Pan/Satyr has become our master????






Sir Burne was more open. Satyr and Pan were was depicted with flute. So, Satyr and Pan became dark angel with red hairs.

*Angel, Sir Edward Burne-Jones*









*Venus and Cupid, Evelyn de Morgan*







*Angel of Death, Evelyn de Morgan* So, dark angel is an angel of death and Cupid transformed into dark angel. :Rolleyes5: 







*Love, the Misleader Evelyn De Morgan*







*Elihu Vedder, Angel of Death*








*Pan's Garden, Sir Edward Coley Burne-Jones*



Let's look at Zeus.





> *ZEUS* was the king of the gods, the god of sky and weather, law, order and fate. He was depicted as a regal man, mature with sturdy figure and dark beard. His usual attributes were a lightning bolt, royal sceptre and eagle.
> http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Zeus.html


Zeus transformed himself to rape Europa.




*EUROPA & THE BULL*

Museum Collection: The J Paul Getty Museum, Malibu, Date: ca 340 BC
Period: Late Classical

SUMMARY

Side A: Detail of Europa riding across the sea on the back of the bull-shaped god Zeus. 






*EUROPA & THE BULL*

Museum Collection: Musée de L'Arles Antique, Arles, France 
Period: Imperial Roman

SUMMARY

Europa is carried across the sea by the bull-shaped god Zeus.


*Rembrandt: THE ABDUCTION OF EUROPA* 


*Titian The Rape of Europa (1562)*







*Francois Boucher, The Rape of Europa*


*Francesco Albani , The Rape of Europa*






* Hendrick De Clerck, The Rape of Europa*




*The Rape of Europa, Noel-Nicolas Coypel.*




Giulio Bonasone After Raphael 

The rape of Europa, at right a seated man play pan-pipes, in the centre a woman holds a wreath above the bull's head, ships in the harbour in the background, after Raphael. 1546




Cornelis Schut,,1612-1655
The Rape of Europa. Jupiter as a bull at centre with Europa on his back, surrounded by her companions, Neptune on his chariot at left, putti holding a garland in top right.





The rape of Europa
Giovanni Francesco Rustici (1474-1554)
About 1495 Italy, Florence
Tin-glazed terracotta
composition of this relief derives from ancient Roman gems. It shows the Greek god Zeus, who turned himself into a beautiful white bull so as to abduct Europa and carry her off to Crete. In this frank representation, the bull turns to lick Europas breast.





RICCIO, Il
The Rape of Europa
c. 1520
Museum of Fine Arts, Budapest





Huge marble statue of Europe and the bull from the 19th century in the midst of Hyde Park, London. She represents one of the four continents on the base of the Albert Memorial erected in the Hyde Park in 1876. The sculptor is by P. MacDowell





Karl Hänny (1879-1972): Skulptur "Europa auf dem Stier" (1915-1918), Rosengarten, Bern, Schweiz.





Hannes Grobe
Europa carried away by a bull (bronze sculpture by Lilli Finzelberg). Present given by American citizens to captain Johnssen after completing the maiden voyage of the express-steamer EUROPA in 1930. Deutsches Schiffahrtsmuseum, Bremerhaven, Germany






What about the Bankers & Wall-street cable with bull & Horn Symbolic
















This one is in Hollywood, California:




Ringling Museum of Art in Sarasota, Florida




Zeus i Europa, Consell Europeu, Brusel·les

Léon de Pas, Europe en avant (Zeus and Europe), 1997, Justus Lipsius building, the headquarters of the European Council, Brussels.











> *ftil* wrote:
> Hm......I have noticed that Europa is depicted as a mermaid. I have never seen that in other paintings.





> *stlukesguild* wrote:
> 
> No... she is wearing a gown or robe on her lower body, but her toes are visible beneath the bull's neck. What might be mistaken for her fish tail is the bull's tail.
> 
> What I see when looking at her is something akin to the engraving by René Boyvin. There is a similar muscularity of both the bull and the girl. She has the same gold armband... and there is a similar forshortening... in Beckmann's case the bull thrusts forward in space, in the Boyvin he moves away from us. In both instances there is a sense of powerful sexuality in both Europa and the Bull.







Really, her toes visible....... Am I blind or she has four fingers......not fully human :Biggrin5:  .... a bull tail.....I must be blind LOL!

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## OrphanPip

> Really, her toes visible....... Am I blind or she has four fingers......not fully human .... a bull tail.....I must be blind LOL!


The toes are clearly visible...

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## YesNo

> The toes are clearly visible...


I agree. I can see the toes clearly.

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## ftil

I didn't see it! I guess I was influenced by a strange painting of Arnold Böcklin.


The Sirens



Let's look at a bull and a cow. There are present in many cultures, Egypt, India, or ancient world. So, a white bull in not only in Greek mythology.  :Yikes: 

*Lord Shiva Sitting on the Bull with Parvati and Ganesha* 




*shiva's bull nandi*




*Shiva bull*




Shiva lingam and bull







> *The Lingam* (also, Linga, Ling, Shiva linga, Shiv ling, Sanskrit लिङ्गं liṅgaṃ, meaning "mark" or "sign") is a representation of the Hindu deity Shiva used for worship in temples.[1] The Lingam has also been considered a symbol of male creative energy or of the phallus.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingam





> The worship of the Sacred Bull throughout the ancient world is most familiar to the Western world in the biblical episode of the idol of the Golden Calf made by people left behind by Moses during visit to mountain peak and worshipped by the Hebrews in the wilderness of Sinai (Exodus). Marduk is the "bull of Utu". Shiva's steed is Nandi, the Bull. The sacred bull survives in the constellation Taurus. The bull, whether lunar as in Mesopotamia and Egypt or solar as in India, is the subject of various other cultural and religious incarnations, as well as modern mentions in new age cultures.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_(mythology)






*Sculpture of Hathor as a cow.*






*Hathor as a cow, wearing her necklace and showing her sacred eye  Papyrus of Ani.*






*Tauroctony of Mithras at the British Museum London*






*Moloch*





*An 18th century German illustration of Moloch ("Der Götze Moloch" i.e. Moloch, the false god).*


*William Blake*  



*The Flight of Moloch*

*Golden Calf, Nicolas Poussin*













*The Moscophoros of the Acropolis, ca 570 BCE.*







*Rhyton in the shape of a bull's head a the Greek pavilion at Expo '88*







> A* rhyton* (plural rhytons or, following the Greek plural, rhyta) is a container from which fluids were intended to be drunk, or else poured in some ceremony such as libation. Rhytons were very common in ancient Persia, where they were called takuk (تکوک). The English word rhyton originates in the ancient Greek word ῥυτόν (rhŭtón).
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhyton






> A* libation* (Σπονδή spondee in Greek) is a ritual pouring of a drink as an offering to a god orspirit or in memory of those who have died. It was common in many religions of antiquity, including Judaism:
> "And Jacob set up a Pillar in the place where he had spoken with him, a Pillar of Stone; and he poured out a drink offering on it, and poured oil on it". (Genesis 35:14)
> Libations continue to be offered in various cultures today.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libation





*Golden rhyton from Iran's Achaemenid period. Excavated at Ecbatana. Kept at National Museum of Iran.*







*Griffon's head rhyton, Apulia, c. 350-300 BC*






*An Urartian silver rhyton from Erebuni*

A fascination with a bull hasn't end.  :Ihih:  Let's look at modern art.


*Bradley Platz* 




Micheal Cheval




*The Change*


We may also :Biggrin5:  see a bull.



*Reincarnation*

But we have more bull themes. Let's look at some paintings.




*St. Luke.The Four Evangelists. 1464/65. Fresco. Vault of Apsidal Chapel of Sant' Agostino, San Gimignano, Italy* 



*Gentile da Fabriano
1370 - 1427*




*Giovanni di Paolo*


*Adoration of the Magi*



*Stefano da Verona*



*Adoration of the Magi*







Let's look at goddess Artemis/Diana. 




> *ARTEMIS* was the great Olympian goddess of hunting, wilderness and wild animals. She was also a goddess of childbirth, and the protectress of the girl child up to the age of marriage. Her twin brother Apollon was similarly the protector of the boy child. Together the two gods were also bringers of sudden death and disease--Artemis targetted women and girls, and Apollon men and boys.
> 
> In ancient art Artemis was usually depicted as a girl dressed in a short knee-length chiton and equipped with a hunting bow and quiver of arrows.http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Artemis.html






> The Taurian *Artemis*. The legends of this goddess are mystical, and her worship was orgiastic and connected, at least in early times, with human sacrifices. According to the Greek legend there was in Tauris a goddess, whom the Greeks for some reason identified with their own Artemis. and to whom all strangers that were thrown on the coast of Tauris, were sacrificed. (Eurip.Iph. Taur. 36.) Iphigeneia and Orestes brought her image from thence, and landed at Brauron in Attica, whence the goddess derived the name of Brauronia. (Paus. i. 23. § 9, 33. § 1, iii. 16, in fin.) The Brauronian Artemis was worshipped at Athens and Sparta, and in the latter place the boys were scourged at her altar in such a manner that it became sprinkled with their blood. This cruel ceremony was believed to have been introduced by Lycurgus, instead of the human sacrifices which had until then been offered to her. (Dict. of Ant. s. v. Braurônia and Diamastigôsis.)
> 
> Her name at Sparta was Orthia, with reference to the phallus, or because her statue stood erect. According to another tradition, Orestes and Iphigeneia concealed the image of the Taurian goddess in a bundle of brushwood, and carried it to Aricia in Latium. Iphigeneia, who was at first to have been sacrificed to Artemis, and then became her priestess, was afterwards identified with the goddess (Herod. iv. 103; Paus. i. 43. § 1), who was worshipped in some parts of Greece, as at Hermione, under the name of Iphigeneia. (Paus. ii. 35. § 1.) Some traditions stated, that Artemis made Iphigeneia immortal, in the character of Hecate, the goddess of the moon.
> A kindred divinity, if not the same as the Taurian Artemis, is Artemis tauropolos, whose worship was connected with bloody sacrifices, and who produced madness in the minds of men, at least the chorus in the Ajax of Sophocles, describes the madness of Ajax as the work of this divinity. In the legends about the Taurian Artemis, it seems that separate local traditions of Greece are mixed up with the legends of some Asiatic divinity, whose symbol in the heaven was the moon, and on the earth the cow.
> 
> http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Artemis.html








*Goddess Artemis*









> In Greek mythology, Pasiphaë (English: /pəˈsɪfə.iː/; Greek: Πασιφάη Pasipháē), "wide-shining"[1]was the daughter of Helios, the Sun, by the eldest[2] of the Oceanids, Perse;[
> 
> She was also the mother of "starlike" Asterion, called by the Greeks the Minotaur, after a curse from Poseidon caused her to experience lust for and mate with a white bull sent by Poseidon. *"The Bull was the old pre-Olympian Poseidon,"*
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasipha%C3%AB








> The offspring of their coupling was the monstrous Minotaur. 
> Nowhere has the essence of the myth been expressed more succinctly than in the Heroides attributed to Ovid, where Pasiphaë's daughter complains of the curse of her unrequited love: "the bull's form disguised the god, Pasiphaë, my mother, a victim of the deluded bull, brought forth in travail her reproach and burden." Literalist and prurient readings that emphasize the machinery of actual copulation may, perhaps intentionally, obscure the mystic marriage of the god in bull form, a Minoan mythos alien to the Greeks.
> 
> 
> The Minotaur, the infamia di Creti, appears briefly in Dante's Inferno, Canto 12,11-15, where, picking their way among boulders dislodged on the slope and preparing to enter into the Seventh Circle, Dante and Virgil, his guide, encounter the beast first among those damned for their violent natures, the "men of blood", though the creature is not actually named until line 25. At Virgil's taunting reminder of the "king of Athens", the Minotaur rises enraged and distracted, and Virgil and Dante pass quickly by to the centaurs, who guard the Flegetonte, "river of blood". This unusual association of the Minotaur with centaurs, not made in any Classical source, is shown visually in William Blake's rendering of the Minotaur (illustration) as a kind of taurine centaur himself.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minotaur







Pasiphae and the Minotaur, Attic red-figure kylix found at Etruscan Vulci (Cabinet des Médailles, Paris)







*Nereid riding a sea-bull (latter 2nd century BC)*






> In Greek mythology, *the Nereids* (pronounced /ˈnɪəri.ɪdz/ neer-ee-idz; Ancient Greek: Νηρηΐδες) are sea nymphs, the fifty daughters of Nereus and Doris, sisters to Nerites. They often accompany Poseidon and can be friendly and helpful to sailors fighting perilous storms. They are particularly associated with the Aegean Sea, where they dwelt with their father in the depths within a silvery cave. The most notable of them are Thetis, wife of Peleus and mother of Achilles; Amphitrite, wife of Poseidon; and Galatea, love of the Cyclops Polyphemus.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nereid








*Sea thiasos Nereid*






*Sea thiasos Nereid*






*Sea thiasos Neried*






*Hippocamp Art Deco fountain, Kansas City, Missouri, (1937)*




> *YesNo* wrote:
> I was thinking the same thing about Juno. 
> 
> Also she doesn't stop with Jove's lover or rape victim, but goes after the entire family. This morning I was thinking that something similar happened with Adam and Eve. They ate the fruit Yahweh told them not to eat and so Yahweh removed them from paradise. All their descendents were punished with them. I've never understood why eating the fruit was such a problem, but I can sort of see why being involved, even unwillingly, in a marital dispute between two chief Gods might cause some problems.
> 
> I wonder if part of the story is to explain why unfortunate things happen.


I was thinking about Adam and Eve. Let's look at mythology and the Bible.






> *THE HESPERIDES* were the goddesses of the evening and golden light of sunset. The three nymphs were daughters of either Nyx (Night) or the heaven-bearing Titan Atlas. They were entrusted with the care of the tree of the golden apples which was first presented to the goddess Hera by Gaia (Earth) on her wedding day. They were assisted in their task by a hundred-headed guardian drakon named Ladon. Herakles was sent to fetch the apples as one of his twelve labours, and upon slaying the serpent, stole the precious fruit. However, Athena later returned them to the Hesperides.
> 
> The Hesperides were also the keepers of other treasures of the god. Perseus obtained from the artifacts he required to slay the Gorgon Medousa.
> 
> The three nymphs and their golden apples were apparently regarded as the source of the golden light of sunset, a phenomena celebrating the bridal of the heavenly gods Zeus and Hera.
> http://www.theoi.com/Titan/Hesperides.html





*THE HESPERIDES*

Museum Collection: British Museum, London, UK 
Date: ca 420 - 410 BC
Period: Classical

SUMMARY

Side A: Detail of the three Hesperides, the tree of the Golden Apples and the coiling Drakon. The larger scene depicts the arrival of Medea and the Argonauts in the garden, on their return to Greece from Kolkhis.
Side B: The rape of the Leukippides (other image)

ARTICLESHesperides, Hesperian Drakon





*A HERAKLES & THE HESPERIDES*

Museum Collection: Museo Arqueológico Nacional, Madrid, Spain 
Date: C3rd AD
Period: Imperial Roman

SUMMARY

The Twelve Labours of Herakles: the hero plucks the golden apples from the tree of the Hesperides. He wields a club against the guardian drakon coiled around the trunk.




*Adam and Eve, Raphael* 








*Michelangelo* - The Fall of Man and the Expulsion from the Garden of Eden



*Titian The Fall of Man* 



Let's look at the judgement of Paris.






> At about this time the wedding of Peleus and Thetis, the hero and the sea-goddess, was celebrated on Mount Pelion. All the gods and goddesses were invited, with the noted exception of Eris, the Goddess of Strife, who was hideous and disagreeable. Angered at being left out of the nuptuals she strode into the middle of the wedding feast and threw a golden apple into the assembled company. It landed between the three most powerful goddesses, Hera, Athene and Aphrodite. Picking it up, Zeus found it was inscribed For the Fairest. Wisely deciding not to judge between the three deities himself, Zeus nominated the beautiful Paris as arbiter, but first he sent Hermes to enquire whether he would be willing to act as judge. Paris agreed and so a time was set for the three goddesses to appear to him on Mount Ida.
> 
> When the day came, Paris sat himself on a boulder and waited with beating heart for the arrival of the three great deities. All at once a great light appeared which covered the entire mountain. At first Paris was blinded, but then the goddesses cloaked their light in cloud so that he was able to look at them. First Hera, the great queen, approached him and flaunted her beauty in front of him. Radiant with glory she made him a promise. If he awarded her the apple, she would grant him wealth and power. He would rule over the greatest kingdom on earth. Paris felt the excitement of this and his ambition rose up and yearned for her gift.
> After that, grey-eyed Athene approached him, drawing near and bending down, so that he might look into the magical depths of her eyes. She promised him victory in all battles, together with glory and wisdom - the three most precious gifts a man could have. This time Paris felt his mind leap with excitement and with desire for the riches of knowledge and the glory of prowess.
> Then it was the turn of Aphrodite. Hanging back a little, she tilted her head so that her hair fell forward, concealing a blush on her face. Then she loosened the girdle of her robe and beneath it, Paris caught sight of her perfectly formed breast, white as alabaster.
> 
> Paris, she said, and her voice seemed to sing inside his head. Give me the apple and in return I will give you the gift of love. You will possess the most beautiful woman in the land, a woman equal to me in perfection of form. With her you will experience the greatest delights of love-making. Choose me, Paris, and she will be yours.
> 
> Then Paris, overpowered by the intoxication of her words and her beauty, found himself handing her the apple without even pausing to reflect on his decision, guided only by the strength of his desire.
> ...







The Judgement of Paris,* Peter Paul Rubens*







The Judgement of Paris, * Joachim Wtewael.*





he Judgement of Paris, *William Blake* 






The Judgement of Paris, *Paul Cézanne*






The Judgement of Paris , *Niklaus Manuel* 






The Judgement of Paris, *Hendrick von Balen*




http://www.philipresheph.com/demodokos/helen/helen8.jpg

The Judgement of Paris
Engraving after Raphael
Marcantonio Raimondic. 1516






*Salvador Dali*, The Judgment of Paris






The Judgment of Paris, The Hague, Geneva and Brussels contest for the Golden Apple of the League of Nations

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## YesNo

I recall you mentioned that the snake was representative of the female and the frog the male in Eqyptian religion. Do you think this idea is involved in the Genesis story with the interaction between the snake and Eve?

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## ftil

> I recall you mentioned that the snake was representative of the female and the frog the male in Eqyptian religion. Do you think this idea is involved in the Genesis story with the interaction between the snake and Eve?


It is a good question. Let's look where we can find snakes.





*Goddess Tara* Buddhism






*Astarte*







(a) The mother-goddess standing upon a lioness (which is her Sekhet form): she is wearing her girdle, and upon her head is the moon and the cow's horns, conventionalized so as to simulate the crescent moon. Her hair is represented in the conventional form which is sometimes used as Hathor's symbol. In her hands are the serpent and the lotus, which again are merely forms of the goddess herself.

(b) Another picture of Astarte (from Roscher's "Lexikon") holding the papyrus sceptre which at times is regarded as an animate form of the mother-goddess herself and as such a thunder weapon.






> Astarte's name also occurs in the Hebrew Bible as part of a place name, Ashteroth Karnaim, karnaim meaning "of the two horns" (Genesis 14:5). Ashteroth Karnaim, perhaps the "full old name of the city," (Patai 1990:57), was probably a temple center whereAstarte was worshiped as a two-horned deity. In support of this suggestion, Patai points to a mold from a shrine in Israel depicting a goddess with two horns. Dated between the eighteenth and the sixteenth centuries BCE, the mold shows a naked goddess in a high, conical hat. She has two horns, one on each side of her head (Patai 1990:57, Plate 9).
> 
> Known in the ancient Levant as Ashtart and in the Hebrew Bible as Ashtereth, the beautiful Astarte may owe many of her characteristics to Mesopotamian Ishtar, as the similarity in their names proclaims. Like Ishtar, Astarte seems to have had strong connections with both war and love/sexuality. In historical times, she received offerings in ancient Ugarit in Syria; her name appears forty-six times in texts from that city. One of her main centers was Byblos, where *she was identified with Egyptian goddesses Hathor and Isis*. In the second millennium BCE, Astarte was, like Anat, a war goddess of the Egyptians (Patai 1990:56). Large numbers of ancient Israelites revered her, and versions of her name occur at least nine times in the Hebrew Bible. She was also an important deity of the Phoenician towns of Tyre and Sidon, whence she and her veneration spread with Phoenician merchants throughout the Mediterranean (Patai 1990:55-66).
> 
> http://www.matrifocus.com/IMB04/spotlight.htm





> The people of Phoenicia worshiped Baal. Baalism included the worship of Molech with fiery sacrifices of children and the worship of Astarte, the Phoenician Ishtar Queen of Heaven.
> 
> She is the Deity of the Planet Venus and a Fertility Goddess, and Her cult was known throughout the ancient world for its practice of temple prostitution. 
> 
> Watsons Biblical and Archaeological Dictionary, 1833: 
> 
> She was certainly represented in the same manner as Isis, with cows horns on her head, to denote the increase and decrease of the moon. Cicero calls her the fourth Venus of the Syrians.
> It is believed that the moon was adored in this idol. Her temples generally accompanied those of the sun; and while bloody sacrifices or human victims were offered to Baal, bread, liquors, and perfumes were presented to Astarte. 
> 
> ...







> Astarte's name was first recorded about 1478 BC, but her cult was firmly established by then. The cult spread westward from Phoenicia into Greece, Rome, and as far as the British Isles. Prophets of the Old Testament condemned her worship because it included sexual rituals, and sacrifices of firstborn children and newborn animals to her.
> 
> *Her other counterparts are Isis, Hathor of Egypt, Kali of India, and Aphrodite and Demeter of Greece*
> 
> Some scholars hold Astarte was a prototype of the Virgin Mary. Their theory is based on the ancient Syrian and Egyptian rituals of celebrating Astarte's rebirth of the solar god on December 25th. A cry was heard that the Virgin had brought forth a newborn child, which was exhibited. Sir James Frazer in the Golden Bough writes, "No doubt the Virgin who thus conceived and bore a son on the twenty-fifth of December was the great Oriental goddess whom the Semites called the Heavenly Virgin or simply the Heavenly Goddess, in Semitic lands she was a form of Astarte." The theory that credits Astarte as being a prototype of the Virgin Mary made be given creditability by many who accept that Christ was born on December 25th; but not by those who do not believe this was the date of Christ's birth, and say the exact date is unknown. A.G.H.
> http://www.themystica.com/mythical-f...s/astarte.html






> Today she is the second name in an energy chant sometimes used in Wicca: "*Isis, Astarte, Diana, Hecate, Demeter, Kali, Inanna*."
> 
> http://www.egyptiandreams.co.uk/astarte.php







*Goddess Isis* Egypt










*Goddess Isis*









*God Shiva* India






Tarot card






*Evelyn de Morgan*



*God Hermes*






















*Baphomet*

----------


## ftil

This is the Roman hand of Power. The hand as an amulet, can be traced back as far as 800 BC. The ring finger and pinky are bent down to reveal only the thumb, index finger and middle finger. It's also similar to the Benediction gesture.






*St. Louis caduceus*












*Alchemical illustration involving the caduceus. Woodcut from Johann Sternhals Ritter-Krieg, Erfurt, 1595.*






*Modern depiction of the caduceus as the symbol of commerce.*

----------


## ftil

> *Lilith* (Hebrew: לילית‎; lilit, or lilith) is a character in Jewish mythology, found earliest in the Babylonian Talmud (completed between 500 and 700 AD/CE), who is generally thought to be related to a class of female demons Līlīṯu in Mesopotamian texts. 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith




*Lilith, John Collier*

----------


## ftil

> *Aleister Crowley* ( /ˈkroʊli/; 12 October 1875  1 December 1947), born Edward Alexander Crowley, and also known as both Frater Perdurabo and The Great Beast, was an influential English occultist, astrologer, mystic and ceremonial magician, responsible for founding the religious philosophy of Thelema. He was also successful in various other fields, including mountaineering, chess and poetry. In his role as the founder of the Thelemite philosophy, he came to see himself as the prophet who was entrusted with informing humanity that it was entering the new Aeon of Horus in the early twentieth century.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleister_Crowley

----------


## YesNo

Here is a link to an article about the Minoan Snake Goddess: http://www.pantheon.org/articles/m/m...e_goddess.html

The snake is apparently wise knowing the herbs that lead to rebirth and resurrection.

Anyway with Isis on the west and Ishtar to the east and both being more ancient that the story of Genesis which I understand was constructed around 950 BCE, I suspect the snake was linked to Eve in the minds of the early hearers of the story.

----------


## ftil

> Here is a link to an article about the Minoan Snake Goddess: http://www.pantheon.org/articles/m/m...e_goddess.html
> 
> The snake is apparently wise knowing the herbs that lead to rebirth and resurrection.
> 
> Anyway with Isis on the west and Ishtar to the east and both being more ancient that the story of Genesis which I understand was constructed around 950 BCE, I suspect the snake was linked to Eve in the minds of the early hearers of the story.


Thanks. I didn't know about Minoan Snake goddess. Hm.....Eve was only in the Bible. I think that it is interesting that snakes were present in many religions. I am asking who really wrote those teachings. LOL!

I have forgotten about Athena.




> *ATHENE (or Athena)* was the great Olympian goddess of wise counsel, war, the defence of towns, heroic endeavour, weaving, pottery and other crafts. She was depicted crowned with a crested helm, armed with shield and spear, and wearing the snake-trimmed aigis cloak wrapped around her breast and arm, adorned with the monstrous head of the Gorgon.
> http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Athena.html






*ATHENA*

Museum Collection: Antikenmuseen, Berlin, Germany 
Date: ca 525 BC
Period: Archaic

SUMMARY

Detail of Athene from a depiction of Herakles and Apollon struggling over the Delphic tripod. The goddess has a prominent Gorgon's head set in the shoulder of her aigis - a snake-trimmed protective cloak. She also holds a shield and spear, and wears a high-crested helm upon her head.

----------


## ftil

It is not the end with snakes.  :FRlol: 




> *THE DRAKONES OF MEDEA* were a pair of winged, serpentine Drakones which drew the flying chariot of the witch Medea. She summoned them to escape from Korinthos following the murder of King Kreon, his daughter Kreousa and her own children by Jason.
> 
> http://www.theoi.com/Ther/DrakonesMedea.html





> Ovid, Metamorphoses 7. 350 & 391 ff : 
> "Had she [Medea] not soared away with her winged Serpentes [from Thessalia following the murder of King Pelias], she surely must have paid the price. Aloft, over the peak of shady Pelion . . . she fled, and over Othrys . . . [Until] at last, borne on her Vipereaes [Drakones] wings, she [Medea] reached Ephyra [Korinthos], Pirenes town . . . But when her witchs poison had consumed the new wife [Jasons new wife Glauke], and the sea on either side had seen the royal palace all in flames, her wicked sword was drenched in her sons blood; and, winning thus a mothers vile revenge, she fled from Jasons sword. Her Dracon team, the Dracones Titaniaci [Titan-Drakones], carried her away to Palladiae [the city of Athens]."







*THE FLIGHT OF MEDEA*

Museum Collection: Cleveland Museum of Art, Cleveland, Ohio, USA 
Date: ca 400 BC
Period: Late Classical

SUMMARY

Detail of Medea fleeing from Korinthos in a flying, serpent-drawn chariot. In the rest of the scene her children lay slain on the altar, while Glauke burns in the palace beside her father King Kreon.

----------


## ftil

We can't forget about Hydra. 




> *HYDRA* LERNAIA was a gigantic, nine-headed water-serpent, which haunted the swamps of Lerna. Herakles was sent to destroy her as one of his twelve labours, but for each of her heads that he decapitated, two more sprang forth. So with the help of Iolaos, he applied burning brands to the severed stumps, cauterizing the wounds and preventing regeneration. In the battle he also crushed a giant crab beneath his heel which had come to assist Hydra. The Hydra and the Crab were afterwards placed amongst the stars by Hera as the Constellations Hydra and Cancer.
> 
> Seneca, Medea 700 ff : 
> "[The witch Medea summons poisonous serpents with a spell invoking the names of the great Drakones :] `In answer to my incantations let Python come . . . Let Hydra return and every serpent cut off by the hand of Hercules, restoring itself by its own destruction. Thou, too, ever-watchful dragon [of the Golden Fleece].'"
> 
> 
> Ovid, Metamorphoses 9. 192 ff : 
> "The Hydras gain from loss, with doubled strength, was all in vain [i.e. against the might of Herakles]."
> 
> ...






*HERAKLES & THE HYDRA*

Museum Collection: The J Paul Getty Museum, Malibu, California, USA 
Date: ca 525 BC
Period: Archaic

SUMMARY

Herakles and his squire Iolaos battle the nine-headed Hydra. Iolaos tends a fire ready to cauterize the neck stumps of the serpent.





*HERAKLES & THE HYDRA*

Museum Collection: Regional Archaeological Museum, Palermo, Italy 
Date: 450 - 500 BC
Period: Classical

SUMMARY

Side A: Herakles and Iolaos battle the Hydra. The serpent is depicted as thick-bodied brute, with twelve heads sprouting fromits trunk. Ioloas is ready to apply a torch to its severed heads.

----------


## ftil

Let's look at Medusa. More snakes  :FRlol: .




> Quintus Smyrnaeus, Fall of Troy 5. 38 ff (trans. Way) (Greek epic C4th A.D.) :
> "[Depicted on the shield of Akhilleus (Achilles):] There were the ruthless Gorgones: through their hair horribly serpents coiled with flickering tongues."
> 
> 
> Ovid, Metamorphoses 4. 770 ff (trans. Melville) (Roman epic C1st B.C. to C1st A.D.) :
> "[Medousa] was violated in Minerva's [Athena's] shrine by the Lord of the Sea (Rector Pelagi) [Poseidon]. Jove's [Zeus'] daughter turned away and covered with her shield her virgin's eyes. And then for fitting punishment transformed the Gorgo's lovely hair to loathsome snakes."
> 
> Ovid, Metamorphoses 6. 119 ff : 
> "As a bird, [Medousa] the snake-tressed mother of the flying steed [Pegasos] [was seduced by Poseidon]."






*GORGONEION*

Museum Collection: British Museum, 
Date: ca 460 BC
Period: Late Archaic / Early Classical

SUMMARY

A Gorgoneion (Gorgon's head). The rounded face of the Gorgon is depicted with large staring eyes, studded ears, a broad tusked mouth and protruding tongue. It is surrounded by a ring of coiled serpents





*PERSEUS & MEDOUSA*

Museum Collection: Antikensammlungen, Munich, Germany 
Date: ca 490 BC
Period: Late Archaic

SUMMARY

Detail of Medousa, from a scene depicting her flight from the hero Perseus. Her rounded face is monstrous, with wide tusked mouth, protruding tongue, staring eyes, and head circled by a ring of coiled serpents.



*GORGON*

Museum Collection: Musée du Louvre, Paris, France 
Date: ca 550 - 500 BC 
Period: Archaic

SUMMARY

A striding Gorgon is depicted with double wings, a broad round face, wide mouth, protruding tongue, beard, staring eyes, and head of serpentine locks.

*Gustav Klimt*, Minerva 




A lot of similarities with goddess Kali.  :FRlol: 








Let's look at modern art.

*Andrius Kovelinas*





















We see a butterfly again.




Rolling Stones Riding the Tongue.It is not subliminal any more,isn't it ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAc1sBrQa4w

----------


## Buh4Bee

I'm glad that you brought this over to a new thread. This is so awesome to look at as I read. Hopefully, I can make some intelligent connections as I am on the summer slosh brain. Haha!

----------


## YesNo

> 


I liked that round picture of the Gorgon with the strange teeth. I hope it doesn't bite itself.  :Smile: 

It looks like there are a lot of snakes associated with females, but why? I understand the snake was associated with wisdom and lived in the earth, but that is as far as I've got.

----------


## ftil

> This is cool. I bookmarked it and added it to stumble upon. I love paintings and fantasy stuff. I recently wrote a cool fantasy story on my blog. shortstorynow.blogspot.com . Go check it out. Subscribe if you like it.


 Thanks, I will visit your blog. Hm....fantasy but mythology intertwine with all religions and it is present in our lives. You have inspired me to explore Apollo.




> *Apollo*, one of the great divinities of the Greeks, was, according to Homer (Il. i. 21, 36), the son of Zeus and Leto. Hesiod (Theog. 918) states the same, and adds, that Apollo′s sister was Artemis. Neither of the two poets suggests anything in regard to the birth-place of the god, unless we take Lukêgenês (Il. iv. 101) in the sense of "born in Lycia," which, however, according to others, would only mean "born of or in light." 
> 
> According to some traditions, he was a seven months′ child (heptamênaios). The number seven was sacred to the god; on the seventh of every month sacrifices were offered to him (hebdomagetês, Aeschyl. Sept. 802; comp. Callim. Hymn. in Del. 250, &c.), and his festivals usually fell on the seventh of a month. 
> 
> 1.The god who punishes and destroys(oulios) the wicked and overbearing, and as such he is described as the god with bow and arrows, the gift of Hephaestus. (Hom. Il. i. 42, xxiv.605, Od. xi. 318, xv. 410, &c.; comp. Pind. Pyth. iii. 15, &c.) 
> 
> The circumstance of Apollo being the destroyer of the wicked was believed by some of the ancients to have given rise to his name Apollo, which they connected with apollumi, "to destroy." (Aeschyl. Agam.1081.) 
> 
> 2. The god of song and music. We find him in the Iliad (i. 603) delighting the immortal gods with his play on the phorminx during their repast ; and the Homeric bards derived their art of song either from Apollo or the Muses. (Od. viii. 488, with Eustath.) Later traditions ascribed to Apollo even the invention.
> ...





*BENDIS, APOLLO & HERMES*

Musem of Fine Arts, Boston, Massachusetts, USA Date: ca 370 - 360 BC


SUMMARY

The Thracian goddess Bendis, dressed in a northern body suit, and wielding a hunting spear, is greeted by the gods Apollon and Hermes. Apollon is seated on a rock, wearing a quiver, and holding in one hand a laurel branch, and the other a hare, which he offers to the goddess. Hermes wears a petasos (traveller's cap) and leans on his caduceus wand.




*APOLLO & MARSYAS*

Museum Collection: Musée du Louvre, Paris, France 


SUMMARY

The satyr Marsyas challenges Apollon to a musical contest. He sits on a rock playing his double-flute, and is shown with the features common to his kind: pug nose, horse's tail and ears. Beside him stands Apollon holding a laurel branch staff, and to either side a pair of Mousai (Muses), one holding a lyre, the other a scroll box, who have been appointed as judges in the contest.



*APOLLO & DAPHNE*

Antakya Museum, Antakya, Turkey C2nd - C3rd AD


SUMMARY

Daphne is transformed into a laurel tree as she runs fleeing from the amorous pursuit of the god Apollon. The Nymphe is depicted in mid-transformation with laurel-branches rising from the earth to encompass her form. The god reaches out in futility to grasp her. He is shown crowned with a shining aureole.



ORESTES AT DELPHOI

British Museum, London, United Kingdom, Date: ca 350 - 340 BC


SUMMARY

Orestes seeks refuge from the avenging Furies (Erinyes) of his mother Klytaimnestra at the shrine of Delphoi. He grasps hold of the omphalos stone beneath the sacred tripod as a suppliant of the god. Apollon receives him, and turns to face one of the pursuing Erinyes. He is wreathed in laurel, and holds a laurel branch staff. On the other side stands Athene, Orestes' patron-goddess, who has guided him to the altar. She wears a helm and her gorgon-headed aigis cloak. Above her is the ghost of Klytaimnestra, who drives the Erinyes against her son to avenge the crime of matricide. The two Erinyes are depicted as huntresses, wearing short-skirts and hunting boots. Their arms and hair are wreathed with poisonous serpents. One of the pair is winged.
An omphalos is an ancient religious stone artifact, or baetylus. In Greek, the word omphalos means "navel" (compare the name of Queen Omphale). According to the ancient Greeks, Zeus sent out two eagles to fly across the world to meet at its center, the "navel" of the world. Omphalos stones used to denote this point were erected in several areas surrounding the Mediterranean Sea; the most famous of those was at the oracle in Delphi. The plant genus Omphalodes in the family Boraginaceae is commonly called navelwort. It is also the name of the stone given to Cronus in Zeus' place in Greek mythology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omphalos




*Gustave Moreau Apollo and the Satyrs*






*Eugene Delacroix : Apollo Slays Python*





*Apollo and Marsyas, Romanelli*




*Apollo and the python snake, Cornelis De Vos.*

----------


## ftil

> I'm glad that you brought this over to a new thread. This is so awesome to look at as I read. Hopefully, I can make some intelligent connections as I am on the summer slosh brain. Haha!


I am glad that you like it. Please bring any part of Ovid you want to see in art.
We can make connections together.  :Smile:

----------


## ftil

> I liked that round picture of the Gorgon with the strange teeth. I hope it doesn't bite itself. 
> 
> It looks like there are a lot of snakes associated with females, but why? I understand the snake was associated with wisdom and lived in the earth, but that is as far as I've got.


It is true and it is in most cultures. The same applies to frogs that were associated with male gods. I will post frog themes soon.  :Smile:

----------


## YesNo

I was originally thinking that the snake was a symbol for a female, but perhaps as a symbol the snake is male, one of the female's companions.

----------


## ftil

Snakes or serpents are present in every culture. I am puzzeled as I find more about it. 




> Serpent is a word of Latin origin (from serpens, serpentis "something that creeps, snake") that is commonly used in a specifically mythic or religious context. Snakes have been associated with some of the oldest rituals known to humankind.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_(symbolism)






*The Maya Vision Serpent*





*This Cambodian statue, dated between 1150 and 1175 A.D., depicts the meditating Buddha being shielded by the naga Mucalinda.*

This motif recalls the story of the Buddha and the serpent king Mucalinda: as the Buddha sat beneath a tree engrossed in meditation, Mucalinda came up from the roots of the tree to shield the Buddha from a tempest that was just beginning to arise.




"Naga" (Sanskrit:नाग) is the Sanskrit/Pāli word for a deity or class of entity or being, taking the form of a very large snake, found in Hinduism and Buddhism. 





*Naga Figure Gasa Dzong, Bhutan Hoysala sculpture of a Naga couple, Halebidu.*



*The Sumerian deity, Ningizzida, is accompanied by two gryphons; it is the oldest known image of two snakes coiling around an axial rod, dating from before 2000 BCE.*





*Ancient North American serpent imagery often featured rattlesnakes.*






*Contemporary poster of a Mami Wata, "serpent priestess" painted by German (Hamburg) artist Schleisinger, ca. 1926, displayed in shrines as a popular image of Mami Wata in Africa and in the Diaspora.*





> Mami Wata is venerated in West, Central, Southern Africa, and in the African diaspora in the Caribbean and parts of North and South America. Mami Wata spirits are usually female, but are sometimes male.
> ]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mami_Wata





A Horned Serpent is a popular image in Northern American natives' mythology.






*The antlered deity of the Gundestrup cauldron, commonly identified with Cernunnos, holding a ram-horned serpent and a torc.*






*Horned serpents (rattlesnakes) tied together on a Mississippian sandstone plate from the Moundville Archaeological Site*


*Johann Urlich Krauss*








*The Flying Serpent, insignia of the Israeli Paratroopers Brigade*

----------


## ftil

> *Cosmic serpents*
> 
> The serpent, when forming a ring with its tail in its mouth, is a clear and widespread symbol of the "All-in-All", the totality of existence, infinity and the cyclic nature of the cosmos. The most well known version of this is the Aegypto-Greek Ourobouros. It is believed to have been inspired by the Milky Way as some ancient texts refer to a serpent of light residing in the heavens. The Ancient Egyptians associated it with Wadjet, one of their oldest deities as well as another aspect, Hathor.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_(symbolism)






*Engraving by Lucas Jennis, in alchemical tract titled De Lapide Philosophico.*





*Drawing by Theodoros Pelecanos, in alchemical tract titled Synosius (1478).*





*Emblem of the Theosophical Society* 






> In Egyptian mythology, Wadjet, or the Green One (Egyptian w3ḏyt; also spelled Wadjit, Wedjet, Uadjet or Ua Zit and in Greek, Udjo, Uto, Edjo, and Buto among other names), was originally the ancient local goddess of the city of Dep,[1] which became part of the city that the Egyptians named Per-Wadjet, House of Wadjet, and the Greeks called Buto,[2] a city that was an important site in the Predynastic era of Ancient Egypt and the cultural developments of the Paleolithic. She was said to be the patron and protector of Lower Egypt and upon unification with Upper Egypt, the joint protector and patron of all of Egypt with the "goddess" of Upper Egypt. The image of Wadjet with the sun disk is called the uraeus, and it was the emblem on the crown of the rulers of Lower Egypt. She was also the protecter of women in childbirth and kings.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wadjet






*Wadjet as Wadjet-Bast, depicted as the body of a woman with a lioness head, wearing the uraeus*





*Relief of Wadjet, Hatshepsut temple, Deir el-Bahari, Theban Necropolis, Egypt*

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...0px-Edfu44.JPG

*Wall relief of Wadjet and Horus in Cradle chapel, temple of Edfu, Egypt*

----------


## ftil

We have more snake themes in mythology. Cadmus and Harmonia transformed into serpents.









> Snakes know a thing or two about sex, we learn, from the story of Tiresias in Ovids Metamorphoses. There was no more appropriate creature to instruct Eve about it. When Tiresias encountered two snakes having sex, he rapped them with his stick but then he found himself changed into a woman. He deserved this, for he should not have interrupted them. Seven years later he came across another pair of snakes having sex and wondered if he rapped them whether it would reverse him back to a man. It did indeed and whether it was the snakes power or the gods to effect such changes, Ovid isnt telling. But Ovid does place it in the context of an argument between Zeus and Hera over who has the greater pleasure from sex, men or women. I dont know the answer to this question myself, but Zeus said women, Hera said men. Tiresias, having lived as both, agreed with Zeus that it was women. So Hera struck him blind. Zeus tried to compensate by giving him second sight. The snakes came out of it unscathed.
> 
> Tiresias also appears in Homers Odyssey and the classic Greek Oedipus plays, and in Dantes Inferno and Miltons Paradise Lost, in Tennyson and T.S. Eliot (did The Waste Land in turn inspire Virginia Woolfs Orlando?). Nowadays Tiresias is an icon of the transgendered community and Id like to think he is the source of the idea that too much sex can make you go blind.
> 
> http://www.sexualfables.com/Why-Snak...-About-Sex.php





*The engraving of Tiresias, Johann Ulrich Krauss, from a 1690 edition of Ovids Metamorphoses.*

----------


## ftil

> YesNo wrote:
> 
> There is something about this river Styx that seems to have control over these gods.






> The Styx was a river in Greek mythology that formed the boundary between Earth and the Underworld (often called Hades which is also the name of this domain's ruler). It circles the Underworld nine times. The rivers Styx, Phlegethon, Acheron, and Cocytus all converge at the center of the underworld on a great marsh, which is also sometimes called the Styx. The other important rivers of the underworld are Lethe, Eridanos, and Alpheus.
> The gods were bound by the Styx and swore oaths on it.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Styx






*A 19th-century interpretation of Charon's crossing by Alexander Litovchenko.*





*Charon as depicted by Michelangelo*





*Charon and Psyche, John Roddam Spencer Stanhope*






> Styx was primarily a feature in the afterworld of Greek mythology, and was adopted into the Christian mythology of Hell of Christianity, notably in The Divine Comedy and "Paradise Lost". The ferryman Charon is believed to have transported the souls of the newly dead across this river into the underworld, though in the original Greek and Roman sources, as well as in Dante, it was the river Acheron that Charon plied. Dante put Phlegyas over the Styx and made it the fifth circle of Hell, where the wrathful and sullen are punished by being drowned in the muddy waters for eternity, with the wrathful fighting each other.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Styx


Let's look at William Blake paintings. His words are thought provoking as he said, "The promise of the divine in man, made in The Marriage of Heaven and Hell, is at last fulfilled"




*Inferno, Canto XXIV, Thieves*






*Inferno, Canto XIV, 46-72, Capaneus the Blasphemer*







*Inferno, Canto XXXIV, 22-64, Lucifer at the last section of the nineth circle*






*Inferno, Canto XIX, 42-120, The simoniac Pope*







*Lucifer and the Pope in Hell*






*Inferno, Canto XIII, 1-45, The Wood of Self-Violators: The Harpies and the Suicides*






*Inferno, Canto XII, 12-28, The Minotaur (Seventh Circle)*






*Satan, Sin, and Death- Satan Comes to the Gates of Hell*





*The Great Red Dragon and the Woman Clothed in Sun*







*The Great Red Dragon and the Woman Clothed with the Sun* 






*The Night of Enitharmon's Joy Blake's vision of Hecate, Greek goddess of black magic and the underworld and Three Fates.*

----------


## ftil

*Eugene Delacroix*








*Charon collects the spirits into his boat in Dante Alighieri's Inferno Canto 3 lines 107-108, Gustave_Doré* 






*Minos stands in judgement in Dante's Inferno Canto, Gustave Doré* 






*Inferno Canto 9 verse*







*Dante's guide rebuffs Malacoda and his fiends in Inferno Canto 21 between ditches five and six in the eight circle*





*Inferno Canto 12 verses 73-74*






*Inferno Canto 12 verses 58-59*

----------


## ftil

There are two paintings of Blake that brought my attention but I don't know the meaning yet.


*Purgatorio, Canto XXX, 60-146 Beatrice Addressing Dante, William Blake*





*The Lovers' Whirlwind, Francesca da Rimini and Paolo Malatesta*

----------


## ftil

When I looked at this painting, I associated it with Zeus. 




> ZEUS was the king of the gods, the god of sky and weather, law, order and fate. He was depicted as a regal man, mature with sturdy figure and dark beard. His usual attributes were a lightning bolt, royal sceptre and eagle.
> http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Zeus.html





> Zeus struck and killed Capaneus with a thunderbolt, and Evadne threw herself on her husband's funeral pyre and died.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capaneus


It is interesting how mythology intertwines with Divine Comedy, isn't it?


*Inferno, Canto XIV, 46-72, Capaneus the Blasphemer*

----------


## ftil

Another association of Blake painting.


*The Great Red Dragon and the Woman Clothed with the Sun* 



*A Gustave Doré wood engraving of Geryon for Dante's Inferno*




*L'Infranchissable Obstacle, Wojtek Siudmak*

[/PHP]

----------


## ftil

YesNo has opened a Pandora box with associations. Mythology and Divine comedy. It is strange, isn't it?

*Inferno, Canto XII, 12-28, The Minotaur (Seventh Circle)*





*Gustave Moreau,Translated title: The Dead Poet Borne by a Centaur. c.1890*





*Franz von Stuck, Walking Ride*





*Amazon and Centaur, Franz von Stuck*








> The most common theory holds that the idea of centaurs came from the first reaction of a non-riding culture, as in the Minoan Aegean world, to nomads who were mounted on horses. The theory suggests that such riders would appear as half-man, half-animal (Bernal Díaz del Castillo reported that the Aztecs had this misapprehension about Spanish cavalrymen).[10] Horse taming and horseback culture arose first in the southern steppe grasslands of Central Asia, perhaps approximately in modern Kazakhstan.
> The Lapith tribe of Thessaly, who were the kinsmen of the Centaurs in myth, were described as the inventors of horse-back riding by Greek writers. The Thessalian tribes also claimed their horse breeds were descended from the centaurs.
> Of the various Classical Greek authors who mentioned centaurs, Pindar was the first who describes undoubtedly a combined monster. Previous authors (Homer) only uses words such as pheres (cf. theres, "beasts") that could also mean ordinary savage men riding ordinary horses. However, contemporaneous representations of hybrid centaurs can be found inarchaic Greek art.
> 
> Lucretius in his first century BC philosophical poem On the Nature of Things denied the existence of centaurs based on their differing rate of growth. He states that at three years old horses are in the prime of their life while at three humans are still little more than babies, making hybrid animals impossible
> 
> Robert Graves (relying on the work of Georges Dumezil argued for tracing the centaurs back to the Indian gandharva), speculated that the centaurs were a dimly remembered, pre-Hellenic fraternal earth cult who had the horse as a totem.[15] A similar theory was incorporated into Mary Renault's The Bull from the Sea. Kinnaras, another half-man half-horse mythical creature from the Indian mythology, appeared in various ancient texts, arts as well as sculptures from all around India. It is shown as a horse with the torso of a man in place of where the horse's head has to be, that is similar to a Greek centaur.
> The Greek word kentauros is generally regarded as of obscure origin. The etymologyfrom ken  tauros, "piercing bull-stickers" was a Euhemerist suggestion in Palaephatus' rationalizing text on Greek mythology, On Incredible Tales (Περὶ ἀπίστων): mounted archers from a village called Nephele eliminating a herd of bulls that were the scourge of Ixion's kingdom. Another possible related etymology can be "bull-slayer".Some[who?] say that the Greeks took the constellation of Centaurus, and also its name "piercing bull", from Mesopotamia, where it symbolized the god Baal who represents rain and fertility, fighting with and piercing with his horns the demon Mot who represents the summer drought. In Greece, the constellation of Centaurus was noted by Eudoxus of Cnidus in the fourth century BC and by Aratus in the third century.
> 
> http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/KentauroiThessalioi.html






CENTAUR, TIGERS & LEOPARDS

Museum Collection: Altes Museum, Berlin, Germany 
Date: ca 118 - 138 AD 
Period: Imperial Roman

SUMMARY

A Kentauros (Centaur) casts a rock at the tiger who has slain his mate and infant child. The Kentauris (female centaur) lies dead, bloodied by the raking claws of the beast. The child Kentauris has fallen nearby with its arms stretched out towards the tail of the beast.





*CENTAUR*
Tzippori Collection, Haifa, Israel 
Period: Imperial Roman

SUMMARY

A rearing centaur draped in an animal-skin cloak and holding a bowl in his hands.






*CENTAUR & EROS*

Museum Collection: Musée du Louvre, Paris, France 
Date: C1st - C2nd AD 
Period: Imperial Roman

SUMMARY

The winged godling Eros (love personified) seated on the back of a centaur.





*"FURIETTI CENTAUR"*

Museum Collection: Museo Capitolino, Rome, Italy 
Period: Imperial Roman

SUMMARY

A half horse, half man centaur.






*Centaur carrying off a nymphby Laurent Marqueste, marble, 1892, Tuileries Garden, Paris.*







*Theseus Defeats the Centaur (1805-1819) by Antonio Canova (1857-1822),Kunsthistorisches Museum, Vienna.
*




*Painting by Sebastiano Ricci, of centaurs at the marriage of Pirithous, king of the Lapithae*


Let's look at Saturn.




> In ancient Roman religion and myth, Saturn (Latin: Saturnus) was a major god presiding over agriculture and the harvest. His reign was depicted as a Golden Age of abundance and peace by many Roman authors. In medieval times he was known as the Roman god of agriculture, justice and strength. He held a sickle in his left hand and a bundle of wheat in his right. His mother was Terra and his father was Caelus. He was identified in classical antiquity with the Greek deity Cronus, and the mythologies of the two gods are commonly mixed. Saturn's wife was Ops (the Roman equivalent of Rhea) and Saturn was the father ofCeres, Jupiter, Veritas, Pluto, Neptune, and Juno, among others. Saturn had a temple on the Forum Romanum which contained the Royal Treasury. Saturn is the namesake of both Saturn, the planet, and Saturday (dies Saturni). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_(mythology)


 




*Die Früchte der Erde werden Saturn dargereicht*

----------


## ftil

And another association of Divine Comedy and mythology.


*Inferno, Canto XIII, 1-45, The Wood of Self-Violators: The Harpies and the Suicides*








> The Harpies were the spirits of sudden, sharp gusts of wind. They were known as the hounds of Zeus and were despatched by the god to snatch away (harpazô) people and things from the earth. Sudden, mysterious dissappearances were often attributed to the Harpyiai. The Harpies were once sent by Zeus to plague King Phineus of Thrake as punishment for revealing the secrets of the gods.
> 
> Homer mentions one Harpy called Podarge (Swiftfoot). Hesiod mentions two, Aello and Okypete (Stormswift and Swiftwing).
> 
> In Greek mythology, a harpy ("snatcher", from Latin: harpeia, originating in Greek:ἅρπυια, harpūia) was one of the winged spirits best known for constantly stealing all food from Phineas. The literal meaning of the word seems to be "that which snatches" as it comes from the ancient Greek word harpazein (ἁρπάζειν), which means "to snatch".
> A harpy was the mother by the West Wind Zephyros of the horses of Achilles. In this context Jane Ellen Harrison adduced the notion in Virgil's Georgics (iii.274) that mares became gravid by the wind alone, marvelous to say.
> Hesiod calls them two "lovely-haired" creatures, and pottery art depicting the harpies featured beautiful women with wings. Harpies as ugly winged bird-women, e.g.in Aeschylus' The Eumenides (line 50) are a late development, due to a confusion with the Sirens. Roman and Byzantine writers detailed their ugliness.
> http://www.theoi.com/Pontios/Harpyiai.html













*PHINEUS & THE HARPY*

Museum Collection: Museo Jatta, Ruvo, Italy 
Date: ca 360 BC
Period: Late Classical / Early Hellenistic

SUMMARY

Detail of a Harpyia and son of Boreas, from a painting depicting the theft of food from the old blind king Phineus. The Harpyia is depicted as a grotesquely, ugly winged woman dressed in a short maiden skirt. The Boread who pursues her is a handsome youth armed with spear and sword.

NOTEThis image is a dr



*A harpy in Ulisse Aldrovandi's Monstrorum Historia, Bologna, 1642*






*Inferno Forest Of Suicides*






*Aeneas and his Companions Fighting the Harpies 1646-47*







*Landscape with the Expulsion of the Harpies about 1590,*

----------


## YesNo

> [IMG]
> 
> 
> 
> *Charon and Psyche, John Roddam Spencer Stanhope*


I liked this painting. 

So Styx circled the underworld 9 times ending in a swamp (rather than a lake or ocean) and there were a bunch of other rivers as well. I assume its source was somewhere on earth, but perhaps in legend it doesn't need a source.

----------


## ftil

Hm.you said legend. Dont you think that it is interesting to see that the same myths are present in every religion?

----------


## Buh4Bee

I tell you its the aliens!!! LOL!

----------


## ftil

> I tell you its the aliens!!! LOL!


I have arrived to the same conclusion. :Brow:  But they are aliens who look like humans.  :Smilielol5:  I am not fond of channeled knowledge but Jadczyk was talking about organic people. According to her organic people don't have souls and they are a link between 2 and 3 dimension. Rudolf Steiner also talked about them but called them pre Adamic people. He was involved in occult...so he had hidden knowledge.  :Eek6:

----------


## Buh4Bee

Uh-oh, watch out for Steiner and the anthroposophiests- they are going to take over the world.

----------


## ftil

I didn't noticed earlier that Athena's armor had the same image of protruding tongue like goddess Kali or Medusa. But we have more connections. lol I guess I need to look in Africa. :Rofl: 


*Aztec Calendar*











*Athena*






*Perseus and Medusa*







Goddess Kali.

----------


## ftil

Before I look at Bacchus, I want to go back to Zeus.






Cyprus Museum, Nikosia, Cyprus 

SUMMARY

Zeus seduces the Spartan princess Leda in the guise of a swan.





Leda and the Swan, *copy by Cesare Sesto after a lost original by Leonardo*, 1515-1520, Oil on canvas, Wilton House, England.









*Paul Rubens*






Paul Prosper Tillier







*Paul Cezanne's* Leda and the Swan, now in the Barnes Foundation Collection, Merion, Pennsylvania has been dated as early as 1868 and as late as 1886-1890





*Theodore Gericault* paintings LEDA AND THE SWAN






*Francis Boucher* 





*Dali, Salvador*. Leda atomica (1949)






*Micheal Parkes*

----------


## ftil

> *DAPHNE* was a Naiad nymph of the river Peneios in Thessalia or the Ladon of Arkadia. She was loved by the god Apollon who pursued her until she grew exhausted, cried out to Gaia for help and was transformed into a laurel tree.
> http://www.theoi.com/Nymphe/NympheDaphne.html



Apollo and Daphne, *Poussin*






Apollo in the Forge of Vulcan, *Diego de Velázquez
*



Apollo and the Muses, *Gustave Moreau*




Apollo and two Muses , *Batoni*

----------


## Adam Zemelka

One of the most interesting examples of Greek art is the so-called art of Gandhara, which represent a number of Buddha statues in Greek robes :Smile:

----------


## ftil

> One of the most interesting examples of Greek art is the so-called art of Gandhara, which represent a number of Buddha statues in Greek robes


I would argue that Gandhara is the most interesting examples of Greek art. We have a different taste LOL! But it makes us think why Buddha had Greek robes.


 

Prince Siddhartha Gautama Shakyamuni (1st2nd century)






The Bodhisattva Maitreya (2nd century)


That's one is quite intriguing. :Ihih: 


The Buddha and Vajrapani under the guise of Herakles

----------


## ftil

More Gandhara



*Hellenistic scene, Gandhara (1st century)*






*Scene of the life of the Buddha (2nd3rd century)*





A Buddhist version of Bacchus..... :FRlol: 



*Wine-drinking and music, Hadda (1st2nd century)*






*Athena in the art of Gandhara*

----------


## ftil

> Greek myth and legend is filled with a wide variety of monsters and creatures ranging from Dragons, Giants, Demons and Ghosts, to multiformed creatures such as the Sphinx, Minotaur, Centaurs, Manticores and Griffins.There were also many fabulous animals such as the Nemean Lion, golden-fleeced Ram and winged horse Pegasus, not to mention the creatures of legend such as the Phoenix, Unicorns (Monocerata) . Even amongst the tribes of man, myth spoke of strange peoples inhabiting the far reaches of the earth such as the hopping Umbrella-Foots, the one-eyed Arimaspians, the Dog-Headed men, and the puny Pygmies.
> http://www.theoi.com/Bestiary.html







> *Chimera* was a monstrous beast which ravaged the countryside of Lykia in Anatolia. It was a composite creature, with the body and maned head of a lion, a goat's head rising from its back, a set of goat-udders, and a serpentine tail.
> 
> Virgil, Aeneid 6. 287 (Roman epic C1st B.C.) :
> "Many monstrous forms besides of various beasts are stalled at the doors [of Haides], Centauri and double-shaped Scyllae, and the hundredfold Briareus, and the beast of Lerna, hissing horribly, and the Chimaera armed with flame, Gorgones and Harpyiae, and the shape of the three-bodied shade [Geryon]."
> 
> Seneca, Medea 828 (Roman tragedy C1st A.D.) :
> "[The witch Medea employs various fabulous ingredients in a spell to create magical fire:] I have gifts from Chimaera's middle part, I have flames caught from the bull's [the bronze Kolkhian bull's] scorched throat."
> 
> Hesiod, Theogony 319 (Greek epic C8th or C7th B.C.) :
> ...





*Chimera.* Apulian red-figure dish, ca. 350-340 BC.
Louvre Museum






*Chimera of Arezzo": an Etruscan bronze*






Gold reel with winged Pegasus and the Chimera , Magna Graecia or Etruria, fourth century BCE (Louvre)





Pebble mosaic depicting Bellerophon killing Chimaera, from Rhodes archaeological museum








*Beham, (Hans) Sebald (1500-1550): Ornament with Two Genii Riding on Two Chimeras, 1544, P.241, B.236.*



*Jacek Malczewski, Poet and Chimera*




View west over the city of Paris from the Galerie des Chimères of Notre-Dame de Paris. One of the famous gargoyles (chimères) of the cathedral 





*Cathedral of Bamberg, Germany*








Detail from portal in Mære church (12th century), Steinkjer, Nord-Trøndelag county, Norway.







*Peter Paul Rubens, Bellerophon, Pegasus and Chimera*
Musée Bonnat

----------


## ftil

*Chimera*




* Royal Bohemian Chancery ( Old Royal Palace, Prague castle ).*







*Berlin, Neues Museum Bellerophon Chimera*




 

*Chimera. Massandra Palace. Ukraine.* 







*Chimera, St. Georg Church, Nördlingen, Germany*







*The Main Gate and original entrance to St John's College, Cambridge*

----------


## ftil

I have never heard the yale. The Main Gate and original entrance to St John's College, Cambridge depicts the yale.

*The yale* (also "centicore", Latin "eale") is a mythical beast found in European mythology. Most descriptions make it an antelope- or goat-like four-legged creature with large horns that it can swivel in any direction.
The name might be derived from Hebrew "yael", meaning "mountain goat".
The yale was first written about by Pliny the Elder in his Natural History. The creature passed into medieval bestiaries and heraldry, where it represents proud defense. It was used by the English Royal Family as a supporter for the arms of John, Duke of Bedford, and by England's Beaufort family. Margaret Beaufort's yale supporters can be seen over the gateways of Cambridge's Christ's College and St. John's College. There are also yales on the roof of St George's Chapel in Windsor Castle. The Yale of Beaufort is a Queen's Beast at Kew Gardens, amongst others placed there after the Festival of Britain outside the gardens' palm house.
In the US, the yale as a heraldic symbol is weakly associated with Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yale_(m...re)?uselang=pl






*Heraldic image of a Yale*.

----------


## YesNo

> *Chimera. Massandra Palace. Ukraine.*


I like this Chimera the best, ready to catch whatever is going to fall into its mouth.

----------


## ftil

YesNo, you better watch out. :FRlol:

----------


## ftil

Diana was equated with the Greek goddess Artemis.



> According to a tradition which Pausanias (viii. 37. § 3) found in Aeschylus, Artemis was a daughter of Demeter, and not of Leto, while according to an Egyptian story (Herod. ii. 156) she was the daughter of Dionysus and Isis, and Leto was only her nurse. But these and some other legends are only the results of the identification of the Greek Artemis with other local or foreign divinities.
> 
> Artemis as the sister of Apollo, is a kind of female Apollo, that is, she as a female divinity represented the same idea that Apollo did as a male divinity. This relation between the two is in many other cases described as the relation of husband and wife, and there seems to have been a tradition which actually described Artemis as the wife of Apollo. (Eustath. ad Hom. p. 1197.
> 
> As Apollo was not only a destructive god, but also averted the evils which it was in his power to inflict, so Artemis was at the same time a thea sôteira; that is, she cured and alleviated the sufferings of mortals. Thus, for instance, she healed Aeneas, when he was wounded and carried into the temple of Apollo. (Il. v. 447.) In the Trojan war she sided, like Apollo, with the Trojans. The man whom she looked graciously upon was prosperous in his fields and flocks, his household was thriving, and he died in old age. (Callim. Hymn. in Dian. 129, &c.)
> 
> Artemis is moreover, like Apollo, unmarried; she is a maiden divinity never conquered by love. (Soph. Elect.1220.) 
> 
> When Apollo was regarded as identical with the sun or Helios, nothing was more natural than that his sister should be regarded as Selene or the moon, and accordingly the Greek Artemis is, at least in later times, the goddess of the moon.
> ...




*ARTEMIS POTNIA THERON*
Museo Archeologico Nazionale di Firenze, Florence, Italy 
Date: ca 570 - 560 BC
Period: High Archaic
*SUMMARY*
Detail of Artemis, here depicted as the Potnia Theron (Lady of the Beasts), from the Francois Vase. The goddess is winged, and grasps a panther (or lioness) and stag by the neck.




*MARSYAS & ARTEMIS*
Museum Collection: Metropolitan Museum, New York City, USA 
Date: ca 400 BC
Period: Classical

*SUMMARY*
Detail of Artemis and Marsyas from a painting depicting the satyr's contest with the god Apollon. Marsyas holds a skinning knife, and rests his elbow on a pillar inscribed with his name. He has the usual features of a satyr: horse-tail, horse-ears and snub nose. Artemis holds a pair of hunting spears and wears her hair tied back with ribbons in a ponytail.



*SACRIFICE IPHIGENEIA*
Museum Collection: Museo Archeologico Nazionale di Napoli, Naples, Italy 
Date: C1st AD 
Period: Imperial Roman
*SUMMARY*
Iphigeneia is dragged to the altar by two soldiers as a sacrificial offering to Artemis. One either side stand her father, King Agamemnon, and grieving mother Klytaimnestra. In the heavens Artemis summons one of her Nymphs to bring a stag to substitute for the girl.
The fresco may be based on a painting by C4th BC Greek artist Timanthus.

 

*The Diana of Versailles* a 2nd Century marble statue of Diana, copied from an earlier Greek original.




*Titian, Diana and Callisto*





*Titian, Actéon and Diana*





*François Boucher (17031770), Diana leaving her bath.*






*Rubens, Diana and her nymphs surprised by Satyrs.
*





*François Clouet (15151572),Diana Bathing	
*





*Pompeo Batoni (17081787), Diana and Cupid*





* Johannes Vermeer (16321675), Diana and her Companions	*





*Villa Durazzo Pallavicini - Temple of Diana. Pegli, Italy*





*La Fontana di Diana a Siracusa, in Piazza Archimede, Italy

*

----------


## YesNo

> *François Clouet (15151572),Diana Bathing	
> *


This one reminds me of the story in Ovid where the hunter caught Diana in her bath and she turned him into one of the animals they were hunting at the time and his friends proceeded to chase him. His dogs catch him as is pictured to the right in the background.

----------


## ftil

> This one reminds me of the story in Ovid where the hunter caught Diana in her bath and she turned him into one of the animals they were hunting at the time and his friends proceeded to chase him. His dogs catch him as is pictured to the right in the background.


Yes. In François Clouet's Bath of Diana (1558-59) Actaeon's passing on horseback at left and mauling as a stag at right is incidental to the three female nudes.




> *Actaeon*, in Greek mythology, son of the priestly herdsman Aristaeus and Autonoe in Boeotia, was a famous Theban hero. Like Achilles in a later generation, he was trained by the centaur Chiron.
> He fell to the fatal wrath of Artemis, but the surviving details of his transgression vary: "the only certainty is in what Aktaion suffered, his πάθος, and what Artemis did: the hunter became the hunted; he was transformed into a stag, and his raging hounds, struck with a 'wolf's frenzy', tore him apart as they would a stag." This is the iconic motif by which Actaeon is recognized, both in ancient art and in Renaissance and post-Renaissance depictions.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actaeon





*Painter of the Woolly Satyrs*, *Louvre Museum*

Actaeon's death. Artemis drives a chariot drawn by a team of deer. To the right a man reports Actaeon's death to his parents Aristaeus and Autonoe. The scene is probably based on Aeschylus' lost play The Toxitides, which dealt with the story of Actaeon. Side A from an Attic red-figure volute crater, ca. 450440 BC.





*Actaeon by Titian*




*Giuseppe Cesari (15681640),
Diana and Actaeon
*

*Actaeon in Caserta*

----------


## ftil

> *The Griffin* was a beast with the head and wings of an eagle and the body of a lion. A tribe of the beasts guarded rich gold deposits in certain northern or eastern mountains. Their one-eyed neighbours--the Skythian Arimasp tribe--battled them for these riches.
> http://www.theoi.com/Thaumasios/Grypes.html




*GRIFFIN*
Museum Collection: Antikensammlungen, Munich, Germany Date: ca 515 - 500 BC
Period: Archaic

*SUMMARY*
Detail of decorative Gryps (Griffin). One stands beneath each handle of the vase.




*THE CHARIOT OF DIONYSOS*
Musée du Louvre, Paris, France 
Date: ca 400 - 390 BC
Period: Late Classical
*SUMMARY*
Dionysos drives a chariot drawn by three beasts: a panther, bull and Gryps (griffin). The god is crowned with a wreath of ivy leaves and holds a thyrsos (pine-cone tipped staff) in one hand.




*APOLLO RIDING GRYPS (GRIFFIN)*
Museum Collection: Kunsthistorisches Museum, Vienna, Austria Date: ca 380 BC
Period: Late Classical / Early Hellenistic

*SUMMARY*
Apollo rides sidesaddle upon the back of a Gryps (Griffin), a winged, eagle-headed lion. The god strums a lyre with one hand and holds a laurel branch in the other.





*The Islamic Pisa Griffin, in the Pisa Cathedral Museum*





*Cathedral Oliva, Poland*





*Mosaic floor in St. Mark's Basilica*





*Statue of a griffin at St Mark's Basilica in Venice.*





*Heraldic guardian griffin at Kasteel de Haar, Netherlands*




*Griffin,Szczecin Poland*




*Banffy Palace Eastern Facade with Griffins
*








*Berlin, Konzerthaus, Dachfigur: Apollo in einem von Greifen gezogenen Wagen (Apollo and Griffin)*




*Griffin on bridge in Gryfice, Poland*





*Griffon, Karlsruhe, Allemagne*




*Griffin at entrance to Seward House in Auburn, NY*




*Compiègne, France: Château de Compiègne*

----------


## ftil

Griffins are in many Coat of Arms. I didn't know that princess Diana also had a griffin.  :Brow: 

*Coat of Arms of Diana,Princess of Wales*

----------


## ftil

*Notre Dame*





*St. Jean's Cathedral in Perpignan.*




Let's look at god Pan again.





> *PAN* was the god of shepherds and flocks, of mountain wilds, hunting and rustic music. He wandered the hills and mountains of Arkadia playing his pan-pipes and chasing Nymphs. His unseen presence aroused feelings of panic in men passing through the remote, lonely places of the wilds.
> 
> Pan was depicted as a man with the horns, legs and tail of a goat, and with thick beard, snub nose and pointed ears. He was often appears in the retinue of Dionysos alongside the other rustic gods. Greeks in the classical age associated his name with the word pan meaning "all". However, it true origin lies in an old Arkadian word for rustic.
> 
> *Herodotus, Histories* 2. 153. 1 (Greek historian C5th B.C.) :
> "Among the Greeks, Herakles, Dionysos, and Pan are held to be the youngest of the gods . . . and Pan the son of Penelope, for according to the Greeks Penelope and Hermes were the parents of Pan, was [first worshipped in Greece] about eight hundred years before me [Herodotus], and thus of a later date than the Trojan war . . . Had Dionysus son of Semele and Pan son of Penelope appeared in Hellas and lived there to old age, like Herakles the son of Amphitryon, it might have been said that they too (like Herakles) were but men, named after the older Pan and Dionysus, the gods of antiquity; but as it is . . . for Pan, the Greeks do not know what became of him after his birth. It is therefore plain to me that the Greeks learned the names of these two gods later than the names of all the others, and trace the birth of both to the time when they gained the knowledge."
> 
> *Virgil, Georgics 1*. 16 ff (Roman bucolic C1st B.C.) :
> "Pan, guardian of the sheep, leaving your native woods and glades of [Mount] Lycaeus, as you love your own Maenalus, come of your grace, Tegean lord!"
> ...


 



> In the Mystery cults of the highly syncretic Hellenistic era Pan is made cognate with Phanes/Protogonos, Zeus, Dionysus and Eros.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_%28god%29







> *Neopaganism*
> 
> In 1933, the Egyptologist Margaret Murray published the book, The God of the Witches, in which she theorised that Pan was merely one form of a horned god who was worshipped across Europe by a witch-cult. This theory influenced the Neopagannotion of the Horned God, as an archetype of male virility and sexuality.* In Wicca, the archetype of the Horned God is highly important, as represented by such deities as the Celtic Cernunnos, Indian Pashupati and Greek Pan.*
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_%28god%29




* Sculpture of Pan*










*Pan (1959) by Jacob Epstein, Edinburgh Gate, Hyde Park, London*





*Satyr in the organ of the Braga Cathedral, Braga, Portugal.
*





*The bust of a satyr. Sculpture at the entrance of a building in Paris. Rue Madame, Paris VI.*





*Johannes Peschel - Frau mit Satyr am Hotel Bellevue in Dresden.*

----------


## ftil

Let's make more connections.




> *Geb* was the Egyptian god of the Earth and a member of the Ennead of Heliopolis. In later times he could also be depicted as a *ram, a bull or a crocodile*. Frequently described mythologically as 'father' of snakes. Geb also often occurs as a primeval divine king of Egypt from whom his 'son' Osiris and his 'grand-son' Horus inherited the land after many contendings with the disruptive god Seth, brother and killer of Osiris. In the Heliopolitan Ennead (a group of nine gods created in the beginning by the one god Atum or Ra), Geb is the husband of Nut, the sky or visible daytime and nightly firmament, the son of the earlier primordial elements Tefnut.Geb was believed to have originally been engaged in eternal sex with Nut, and had to be separated from her by Shu, god of the air.[2] Consequently, in mythological depictions, Geb was shown as a 'man' reclining, sometimes with his phallus still pointed towards the sky goddess Nut.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geb










> The Horned God in India and Europe
> 
> Author: Neil MacGregor Campbell
> Copyright © 2000. Brought to you by http://indianpaganism.4dw.com: Indian Paganism - A Comparative Exploration into Pagan and Indian Religion, Myth and Culture.
> 
> *Pashupati is the Horned God of the Indus Valley*, of the great Harappan city culture that developed from a village culture approximately 6000 years ago, in northern India and what is now Pakistan. At its peak it was a civilization which covered a huge expanse, an area which was twice as large as that of the Egyptian kingdom and approximately four times the size of Sumer and Accad. Yet the remains of this once great metropolis were only discovered in 1856 when workers were building a railway and discovered that the rubble was pieces of bricks from some unknown building' s remains. The railway work was stopped, however it was not until 60 years later that proper excavations began to take place on the city now known as Harappa. Later a second great city was discovered in the Valley, that of Mahenjo Daro, which archaeologists estimate had a population of 35,000, equal to that of Harappa.
> 
> 
> However despite continuing excavations little is actually known for certain about the religion of this culture. The socio-religious structure remains unknown, as does any ritual practices, or festival times. What has been discovered in the remains of this civilization is strong evidence of worship of a Mother Goddess and also that of a Horned God.
> ...






> *Neopaganism*
> 
> In 1933, the Egyptologist Margaret Murray published the book, The God of the Witches, in which she theorised that Pan was merely one form of a horned god who was worshipped across Europe by a witch-cult.[38] This theory influenced the Neopagannotion of the Horned God, as an archetype of male virility and sexuality. In Wicca, the archetype of the Horned God is highly important, as represented by such deities as the Celtic Cernunnos, Indian Pashupati and Greek Pan.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_%28god%29




*The Shiva Pashupati, seal with the seated Shiva figure termed Pashupati*






The "Cernunnos" type antlered figure on the Gundestrup Cauldron.




*Cernunnos on the Pillar of the Boatmen*


This outline of categories of Indo-European Deities is based on work by Celtic Scholar, Raimund Karl.




> http://www.druidry.org/obod/deities/index.html
> 
> *THE GOD OF THE TREE FRUIT* in Celtic mythology or spirituality is Cernnunos. In Greek mythology is Dinysos.
> *EARTH FATHER* in Celtic is Cernnunos again. *In Greek is Pan and* *Dionysos*. As I have shown earlier Dionysos was god of ritualistic madness, orgy, and wine.
> 
> Secondly, DAYTIME AND NIGHTTIME CONTROLLER OF THE UPPER REALM in celtic are Lugh and Cailleach -Queen of Air and Darkness.
> 
> In Greek Daytime and Night time Controller of Upper Real is Hermes and Apollo. Interesting, isnt it?
> 
> ...


Interestingly enough, god Deb like god Pan is called God of the Earth.
Are we talking about the same god?  :FRlol:

----------


## ftil

I am not the only one who likes mythology. Pope Gregory XIII loved it too. :Biggrin: 
We see ram and the serpent that is chasing or devouring its tail is called Ouroboros.



GREGORIUS XIII PONT(IFEX) OPT(IMUS) MAXIMUS ANNO RESTITUTO MDLXXXII
(Year of Restitution 1582)








Tomb of Gregory XIII

----------


## YesNo

Interesting that a Pope would use such symbolism. I would have expected other symbols such as crucifixes.

----------


## stlukesguild

In exploring iconography in art it is essential that you bear in mind just how artists came upon or chose a given theme of iconography. Prior to the development of art in 17th century Holland as a commercial endeavor in which art entered the marketplace and was aimed at an upper-middle-class audience, art was largely a product produced for the aristocracy and the church. Works of art were the result of commissions. The patron would contract with a master and member of the local guild of painters, sculptors, weavers, etc... for a given subject. The patron was purchasing a Madonna or a Crucifixion and not a Fra Angelico or a Botticelli. Only as the Renaissance evolved did we come upon the notion of contracting for the work by a specific artist... but even then, it was with the idea of having a specific image made... not simply anything by an artist of name value.

Some of the artists working under the patronage system were literate and highly educated (Brunelleschi, Leonardo, Michelangelo, Durer, etc...) but many were not. As a result, the artists commonly used established models of iconography and symbolism provided by the guilds and/or the patrons. In a great many instances, the artists worked with a scholar in working out the iconography. The Church was obviously the largest patron and had no end of scholars (monks, priests, etc...) who might work with an artist in planning the iconographic details. Aristocrats commonly employed at least one scholar whose duties might include educating the children, managing the library, purchasing new books, and overseeing the iconography in paintings.

Among the obvious sources of iconography was the Bible, followed by Ovid's Metamorphoses, which was perhaps the second most influential work upon the themes and subject matter and iconography employed by artists. Chapbooks and encyclopedias of iconography established proper symbols, dress, as stance for given figures. The Virgin Mary, for example, was to appear in blue, the color of royalty by virtue of the fact that the top quality blue paint was more costly than gold, produced from crushed gemstones (Lapis Lazuli). She might wear red as an undergarment with the blue robe covering. She was never to wear red as her outer robe or have red hair as red suggested sex and the scarlet woman. Neither was green, the color of fertility, permitted. 

I distrust placing too much emphasis upon iconography and questions as to why an artist employed a given symbol for the simple reason that visual artists are not scholars or writers. In most instances, they are far more interested in the formal, visual aspects of a work of art than in all the symbolism and iconography. When confronting a given narrative, the focus is far more likely centered upon the larger drama, the emotions of the characters, and the mood or atmosphere of the whole. Artists are far more attuned the the play of one color against another, the motion of line, and the drama of light and dark than they are to symbolic details. Unfortunately, art history is largely written by scholars, whose "language" is found in words rather than images.

There was certainly a shift in the 20th century toward the notion of artist/scholars as a result of the shift in the education of artists away from the ateliers and art schools and toward colleges and universities. One might argue that this is a huge factor in why we have so many artists who can cite Foucault and Derrida and Walter Benjamin but who can't create a memorable image. Picasso was undoubtedly the greatest and most influential artist of the Modern era. He created an endless array of memorable and iconic images without ever having made a scholarly study of art and iconography. 

Artists undoubtedly look at art differently than scholars. 



An artist looking at this painting will likely focus upon the marvelous repetition of serpentine line, the sensuality of color, and the blurring of details or edges in order to reinforce the atmosphere of sensuality. They will also admire the mastery of simplified structure of form and anatomy and the rich layering of colors and patterns in which the figure and ground virtually merge into one. All of this will be far more important than any questions of social narrative (Is the woman a prostitute... or working class? Is this a brothel? Is the artist inferring that the viewer is a voyeur? 



The same would be true in looking at an older painting... laden with symbolism. One of the most popular images on the Sistine... at least with artists... is the Libyan Sibyl. Again, few artists care one bit for the mythology of the sibyls, for the symbolism of the book and the putti, etc... Rather, the artist's eye is drawn to the absolute gorgeous play of colors, the magnificent abstraction of anatomy conveying motion in an almost cubist or futurist manner, the brilliance of the line or gesture moving through the figure. 

I simply raise some points as questions... or suggestions that you might wish to explore how artists look at works of art... their focus and intentions... before making assumptions from a scholar/writer's point of view.

----------


## ftil

Firstly, I dont make any assumptions. LOL! In my introduction, I wrote that I will not influence the reader as I want the reader to make own conclusions. I use art in a very different way as you do, and luckily, I am not a scholar so that I am free from any influences. I question how scholars can make assumptions about other artists work. They may try to sit in artists head but from a psychological point of view it is a serious problem.  :Brow:  They may analyze color and line but this is all what they can do. They cant analyze emotional states of the artists. Only the artist can talk about it. 

Regarding symbols, I would rather trust myself and my ability and passion to do research. I strongly believe that we need to start thinking for ourselves and make a good use of our brains. Otherwise, we are just repeaters and followers. I have never been one and I encourage others to do the same. Thirdly, I like to look at ancient artifacts and read mythology first. Then I look at paintings through centuries. The themes and symbols are the same. If you look at Micheal Parkes, Valdimir Kush, Michael Cheval, or Wojtek Siudamk, to name a few, you will see the same themes and symbols. I want the reader to make own connections.

I have found fascinating to see the same images and themes in all religions and in all continents. Please, dont forget that we are not at school where we have to follow others teachings. Finally, by watching art we connect our right and left brain and many people have both hemispheres disconnected so that we can have another benefit from art. I try to use words as less as possible to keep the reader in a right brain. You want them to be in a left one. LOL!

----------


## ftil

Let's go back to snakes. It is more than I thought.  :Biggrin5: 




> The word *Abrasax* which is far more common in the sources than the variant form Abraxas, was a word of mystic meaning in the system of the Gnostic Basilides, being there applied to the Great Archon, the princeps of the 365 spheres.
> 
> The word is found in *Gnostic texts* such as the Holy Book of the Great Invisible Spirit, and also appears in the Greek Magical Papyri. It was engraved on certain antique gemstones, called on that account Abraxas stones, which were used as amulets or charms.
> 
> There are similarities and differences between such figures in reports about Basilides' teaching, ancient Gnostic texts, the larger Greco-Roman magical traditions, and modern magical and esoteric writings. Opinions abound on Abraxas, who in recent centuries has been claimed to be both an Egyptian god and a demon.[3] The Swiss Psychologist Carl Jung wrote a short Gnostic treatise in 1916 called The Seven Sermons to the Dead, which called Abraxas a God higher than the Christian God and Devil, that combines all opposites into one Being.
> 
> According to E. A. Wallis Budge, "as a Pantheus, i.e. All-God, he appears on the amulets with the head of a **** (Phbus) or of a lion (*Ra or Mithras*), the body of a man, and his legs are serpents which terminate in scorpions, types of the Agathodaimon.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraxas




*Gemstone carved with Abrasax, obverse and reverse.*




*Engraving from an Abrasax stone.*




*GNOSTIC GEMS.*
Talismans, Magical Charms, and Invocations. 
This Plate is illustrative of the Mysteries of the Gnostics.
"ABRAXAS," or the Chief Deity in his Manifestations.






> *Carl Jung (Seven Sermons to the Dead)*
> 
> Abraxas is an important figure in Seven Sermons, a representation of the driving force of individuation (synthesis, maturity, oneness), referred with the figures for the driving forces of differentiation (emergence of consciousness and opposites), Helios God-the-Sun, and the Devil.
> 
> "There is a God about whom you know nothing, because men have forgotten him. We call him by his name: Abraxas. He is less definite than God or Devil....
> 
> "Abraxas is activity: nothing can resist him but the unreal.... Abraxas stands above the sun[-god] and above the devil.... If the Pleroma were capable of having a being, Abraxas would be its manifestation."
> 2nd Sermon
> 
> ...






> *Aleister Crowley*
> Abraxas is invoked in the The Gnostic Mass of the Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica:
> IO IO IO IAO SABAO KURIE ABRASAX KURIE *MEITHRAS* KURIE PHALLE. IO PAN, IO *PAN* PAN IO ISCHUROS, IO ATHANATOS IO ABROTOS IO IAO. KAIRE PHALLE KAIRE PAMPHAGE KAIRE PANGENETOR. HAGIOS, HAGIOS, HAGIOS IAO.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraxas





> *Aleister Crowley*  12 October 1875  1 December 1947), born Edward Alexander Crowley, and also known as both Frater Perdurabo and The Great Beast, was an influential English occultist, astrologer, mystic and ceremonial magician, responsible for founding the religious philosophy of Thelema.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleister_Crowley


Let's look Mithra and Ra.

 




God Ra





Annibale Carracci, God Pan and Diana

----------


## ftil

Let's continue with serpent-footed monsters.




> *The GIANTS*, they say, were serpent-footed, had a thousand hands, and being huge they were also invincible in their might. Some have said that the GIANTS were born in Phlegrae or Pallene, which is the westernmost of the three peninsulas jutting into the Aegean Sea from Chalcidice.
> The GIANTS were born from the flowing blood which fell upon the earth after the Castration of Uranus, performed by Cronos. But it has also been told that Gaia, vexed because the OLYMPIANS had defeated the TITANS, gave birth to a race of GIANTS so that they should attack heaven, and obtain revenge.
> These GIANTS did attack heaven (see Gigantomachy), and as an oracle had declared that none of the them could perish at the hands of the gods unless a mortal could help them, these summoned Heracles 1 to their aid, and the GIANTS were destroyed.
> http://www.maicar.com/GML/GIANTS.html





> *Giants*
> The mythology and legends of many different cultures include monsters of human appearance but prodigious size and strength. "Giant" is the English word (coined 1297) commonly used for such beings, derived from one of the most famed examples: the gigantes (Greek "γίγαντες"[1]) of Greek mythology.
> In various Indo-European mythologies, gigantic peoples are featured as primeval creatures associated with chaos and the wild nature, and they are frequently in conflict with the gods, be they Olympian,Nartian, Hindu or Norse.
> There are also accounts of giants in the Old Testament, most famously Goliath. Attributed to them are extraordinary strength and physical proportions.
> 
> *Roman mythology*
> Several Jupiter-Giant-Columns have been found in Germania Superior. These were crowned with a statue of Jupiter, typically on horseback, defeating or trampling down a Giant, often depicted as a snake. They are restricted to the area of south-western Germany, western Switzerland, French Jura and Alsace.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_(mythology)






Zeus fight Giant, Pergamon






> *Typhon* also Typhoeus, Typhaon or Typhos was the last son of Gaia, fathered by Tartarus, and the most deadly monster of Greek mythology. He was known as the "Father of all monsters"; his wife Echidna was likewise the "Mother of All Monsters."
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhon





*Combat de Zeus contre Typhon
*





Istanbul Archaeological Museum - Gigantomachy (the battle among the Greek gods (at the left side is depicted Athena) and the Giants. Hellenistic art of the Roman period, 2nd century AD. From Aphrodisias. Picture by: Giovanni Dall'Orto.





Istanbul Archaeological Museum - Gigantomachy (the battle among the Greek gods and the Giants. Hellenistic art of the Roman period, 2nd century AD. From Aphrodisias. Picture by: Giovanni Dall'Orto.




 

*WOUNDED GIGANTE*
Museum Collection: Villa Romana del Casale (in situ), Piazza Amerina, Sicily, Italy 

Date: ca 320 AD 
Period: Imperial Roman
SUMMARY
Detail of a Gigante from a mosaic depicting the death of the giants in their war against the gods. The serpent-footed monster is pierced by an arrow.





*WOUNDED GIGANTES*
Museum Collection: Villa Romana del Casale (in situ), Piazza Amerina, Sicily, Italy 
C
Date: ca 320 AD 
Period: Imperial Roman
SUMMARY
A group of serpent-footed Gigantes felled by the arrows of the gods.





> In Greek mythology, *Geryon*; Ancient Greek son of Chrysaor and Callirrhoe and grandson of Medusa, was a fearsome giant who dwelt on the island Erytheia of the mythic Hesperides in the far west of the Mediterranean. A more literal-minded later generation of Greeks associated the region with Tartessos in southern Iberia.[2]
> Geryon was often described as a monster with human faces. According toHesiod Geryon had one body and three heads, whereas the tradition followed by Aeschylus gave him three bodies.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geryon




*A Gustave Doré wood engraving of Geryon for Dante's Inferno*


Dore's art reminds me about William Blake's paintings.





*The Great Red Dragon and the Woman Clothed in Sun*






*The Great Red Dragon and the Woman Clothed with the Sun
*



*The Great Red Dragon and the Beast from the Sea
*

----------


## ftil

Let's look at The Judgement of Paris.




> At about this time the wedding of Peleus and Thetis, the hero and the sea-goddess, was celebrated on Mount Pelion. All the gods and goddesses were invited, with the noted exception of Eris, the Goddess of Strife, who was hideous and disagreeable. Angered at being left out of the nuptuals she strode into the middle of the wedding feast and threw a golden apple into the assembled company. It landed between the three most powerful goddesses, Hera, Athene and Aphrodite. Picking it up, Zeus found it was inscribed For the Fairest. Wisely deciding not to judge between the three deities himself, Zeus nominated the beautiful Paris as arbiter, but first he sent Hermes to enquire whether he would be willing to act as judge. Paris agreed and so a time was set for the three goddesses to appear to him on Mount Ida.
> 
> When the day came, Paris sat himself on a boulder and waited with beating heart for the arrival of the three great deities. All at once a great light appeared which covered the entire mountain. At first Paris was blinded, but then the goddesses cloaked their light in cloud so that he was able to look at them. First Hera, the great queen, approached him and flaunted her beauty in front of him. Radiant with glory she made him a promise. If he awarded her the apple, she would grant him wealth and power. He would rule over the greatest kingdom on earth. Paris felt the excitement of this and his ambition rose up and yearned for her gift.
> After that, grey-eyed Athene approached him, drawing near and bending down, so that he might look into the magical depths of her eyes. She promised him victory in all battles, together with glory and wisdom - the three most precious gifts a man could have. This time Paris felt his mind leap with excitement and with desire for the riches of knowledge and the glory of prowess.
> Then it was the turn of Aphrodite. Hanging back a little, she tilted her head so that her hair fell forward, concealing a blush on her face. Then she loosened the girdle of her robe and beneath it, Paris caught sight of her perfectly formed breast, white as alabaster.
> 
> Paris, she said, and her voice seemed to sing inside his head. Give me the apple and in return I will give you the gift of love. You will possess the most beautiful woman in the land, a woman equal to me in perfection of form. With her you will experience the greatest delights of love-making. Choose me, Paris, and she will be yours.
> 
> Then Paris, overpowered by the intoxication of her words and her beauty, found himself handing her the apple without even pausing to reflect on his decision, guided only by the strength of his desire.
> ...




*The Judgement of Paris, Peter Paul Rubens* 





*The Judgement of Paris, by Joachim Wtewael.*






*The Judgement of Paris, William Blake*






*The Judgement of Paris, Paul Cézanne*





*The Judgement of Paris, Hendrick von Balen* 






*The Judgement of Paris
Engraving after Raphael
Marcantonio Raimondic.*





*Salvador Dali, The Judgment of Paris.*







*The Judgment of Paris, The Hague, Geneva and Brussels contest for the Golden Apple of the League of Nations*

----------


## ftil

Let's look at fleur de lis.

*Goddess Isis*







*Ancient fleur-de-lis on the Assyrian cherub god.*








*Chapelle royale (royal chapel) of the Palace of Versailles in Versailles, France.
*






*Château de Versailles (France)*





*Détail de la frise de fleurs de lys sur la façade de la cathédrale Saint-Pierre-et-Saint-Paul de Troyes, 13ème siècle.*  And chimera.






*One of the 18 Renaissance stained glass windows of Auch cathedral by Arnaud de Moles.*








*St John Baptist. Stained glass window, Chateau de Breteuil, Chapel, France* 





*Fleur-de-lis in the coat of arms of Pope Paul VI
*







*Fence with fleur-de-lis on Buckingham Palace in London.* 





*Pavement in the Chapter house of the Fontevraud Abbey*




*Boston Massachusetts: Floor in State House with fleur-de-lis mosaic design
*




We may find fleur-de-lis in many Coat of Arms as well as logo of The Priory of Sion.




> The Priory of Sion , mentioned for the first time in 1956 , is a secret society . In a series of documents typed writing and filed with the National Library in the mid 1960's , entitled Secret Files of Henri Lobineau , Plantard this as a brotherhood the Priory dating back to 1099 , related to the Order of the Temple in France.
> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prieur%C3%A9_de_Sion

----------


## ftil

Let's look at Jason and Medea myth, a devotee of Hecate, goddess of witchcraft and magic.





> *Jason* was a late ancient Greek mythological hero from the late 10th Century BC, famous as the leader of the Argonauts and their quest for the Golden Fleece. He was the son of Aeson, the rightful king of Iolcus. He was married to *the sorceress Medea*.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason


 




> In Greek mythology, *the Golden Fleece* is the fleece of the gold-haired winged ram, which can be procured in Colchis. It figures in the tale of Jason and his band of Argonauts, who set out on a quest by order of King Pelias for the fleece in order to place Jason rightfully on the throne of Iolcus in Thessaly. The story is of great antiquity – it was current in the time of Homer (eighth century BC) – and consequently it survives in various forms, among which details vary. Thus, in later versions of the story, the ram is said to have been the offspring of the sea god Poseidon and Themisto (less often, Nephele or Theophane).
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Fleece






> *Medea* was a devotee of the goddess Hecate, and one of the great sorceresses of the ancient world. She was the daughter of King Aeetes of Colchis, and the granddaughter of Helios, the sun god.
> King Aeetes' most valuable possession was a golden ram's fleece. When Jason and the crew of the Argo arrived at Colchis seeking theGolden Fleece, Aeetes was unwilling to relinquish it and set Jason a series of seemingly impossible tasks as the price of obtaining it. Medea fell in love with Jason and agreed to use her magic to help him, in return for Jason's promise to marry her.
> Jason fled in the Argo after obtaining the golden fleece, taking Medea and her younger brother, Absyrtis, with him. King Aeetes pursued them. In order to delay the pursuit, Medea killed her brother and cut his body into pieces, scattering the parts behind the ship. The pursuers had to stop and collect Absyrtis' dismembered body in order to give it proper burial, and so Jason, Medea and the Argonauts escaped.
> After the Argo returned safely to Iolcus, Jason's home, Medea continued using her sorcery. She restored the youth of Jason's aged father,Aeson, by cutting his throat and filling his body with a magical potion. She then offered to do the same for Pelias the king of Iolcus who had usurped Aeson's throne. She tricked Pelias' daughters into killing him, but left the corpse without any youth-restoring potion.
> After the murder of Pelias, Jason and Medea had to flee Iolcus; they settled next in Corinth. There Medea bore Jason two children before Jason forsook her in order to marry the daughter of Creon, the king of Corinth. Medea got revenge for Jason's desertion by killing the new bride with a poisoned robe and crown which burned the flesh from her body; King Creon died as well when he tried to embrace his dying daughter. Medea fled Corinth in a chariot, drawn by winged dragons, which belonged to her grandfather Helios. She took with her the bodies of her two children, whom she had murdered in order to give Jason further pain.
> Medea then took refuge with Aegeus, the old king of Athens, having promised him that she would use her magic to enable him to have more children. She married Aegeus and bore him a son, Medus. But Aegeus had another son, Theseus. When Theseus returned to Athens, Medea tried to trick her husband into poisoning him. She was unsuccessful, and had to flee Athens, taking Medus with her. After leaving Athens, Medus became king of the country which was later called Media.
> http://www.pantheon.org/articles/m/medea.html



I have just noticed the same image as Medusa, goddess Kali, and the images on Aztec's calendar.



Jason and the Snake, Vatican







Jason seizing the Golden Fleece, fragment of a sarcophagus. Luni marble, Roman artwork, second half of the 2nd century AD.







Medea is slitting Aeson’s throat and catching his thin blood in a chalice, preparing to pour the elixir down his throat to make him younger. On the far left, is Medea praying to her patron gods to grant her the power to make Aeson young again. The cauldron boils and bubbles with the magical potion that will rejuvenate Aeson. Devils fly above, signifying Medea’s evil. The sky swirls and bellows, showing approval of the gods to Medea. In both sections, there is a white billowing cloud near Medea, showing the potency of her magical art. On the altar, there are numerous incense candles, further showing the mysticism of the scene.
http://owlnet.overlake.org/Academics...astor/art.html







Medea rejuvenated an old ram into a young lamb. She is holding a knife with which she killed the ram, and the lamb inside the cauldron is the old ram reborn. The woman on the left is Pelias’s daughter. She is here to witness the rebirth of the lamb. Pelias’s daughter is exclaiming that the ram is now a lamb, and that her father could be young again.






*Medea, Evelyn de Morgan.*







*Eugène Delacroix, Medea* 






*Jason and Medea by John William Waterhouse.*






*Anthony Frederick Augustus Sandys, Medea*






*Medea, Alfons Mucha*





*Anselm Feuerbach, Medea*






*Jason and Medea, Gustave Moreau 
*






*Paul Cézanne, Medea* 





*Jason and Medea, von Joseph Käßmann, 1829*

----------


## mogarbobac

hello everyone maybe you can help me im looking for an oil painting similar to this one


in the painting im looking for is a woman in a white silk see-thru gown, she has curly hair and wears laurels. shes standing under a archway or doorway looking at small birds bathe in a saucer. it seems to be a Romanesk or greek painting judging by the architecture but i believe it might be made within the 18th century. i had a print of it and lost it and having a hell of a time finding it again. please help ty

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## ftil

Let's have fun.  :Biggrin5: 

Let's look at god Apollo again.



*A statue of Apollo Lykeios type,withPython.Roman copy of a Greek original.Louvre*


I have noticed that Apollo looks quite feminine. LOL!



*The Apollo Sauroctonos by Praxiteles (360 BC).Louvre*





*Johann Joachim Kaendler: Apoll und die Musen auf dem Parnass, Porzellan; Meissen, um 1750, Museum für Angewandte Kunst Frankfurt am Main.*





*Vienna, Schönbrunn gardens, statue Apollo 1773-1780*





* Apollo with the griffin, Musei Capitolini, Rome.*





* Michelangelo - Apollo*




*Gustave Moreau Apollo and the Satyrs*




> In Greek mythology, *Hyacinth* was given various parentage, providing local links, as the son of Clio and Pierus, King ofMacedon, or of king Oebalus of Sparta, or of kingAmyclas,[2] progenitor of the people of Amyclae, dwellers about Sparta. His cult at Amyclae, where his tomb was located, at the feet of Apollo's statue, dates from theMycenaean era.In the literary myth, Hyacinth was a beautiful boy and lover of the god Apollo , though he was also admired by West Wind, Zephyr. Apollo and Hyacinth took turns throwing thediscus. Hyacinth ran to catch it to impress Apollo, was struck by the discus as it fell to the ground, and died.[3] A twist in the tale makes the wind god Zephyrus responsible for the death of Hyacinth.[4] His beauty caused a feud between Zephyrus and Apollo. Jealous that Hyacinth preferred the radiant archery god Apollo, Zephyrus blew Apollo's discus off course, so as to injure and kill Hyacinth. When he died, Apollo didn't allow Hades to claim the boy; rather, he made a flower, the hyacinth, from his spilled blood. According to Ovid's account, the tears of Apollo stained the newly formed flower's petals with ai, ai, the sign of his grief. The flower of the mythological Hyacinth has been identified with a number of plants other than the true hyacinth, such as the iris. According to a local Spartan version of the myth, Hyacinth and his sister Polyboea were taken to heaven by Aphrodite, Athena and Artemis. 
> Hyacinth was the tutelary deity of one of the principal Spartan festivals, the Hyacinthia, held every summer. The festival lasted three days, one day of mourning for the death of the divine hero Hyacinth.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyacinth_(mythology)





*Jean Broc (1771-1850), The Death of Hyacinth. Hyacinth is the figure on the left of the frame being supported by his lover Apollo.*





*Giovanni Tiepolo (1696-1770), The death of Hyacinth.*






*From the book: Albert Moll, Handbuch der Sexualwissenschaften, Verlag Von F.C. Vogel, Leipzig . Picture by Stefano Bolognini.*





> *HERMAPHRODITOS (or Hermaphroditus)* was the god of hermaphrodites and of effeminate men. He was numbered amongst the winged love-gods known as Erotes.
> Hermaphroditos was a son of Hermes and Aphrodite, the gods of male and female sexuality.
> In Greek vase painting Hermaphroditos was depicted as a winged youth with male and female attributes: usually female thighs, breasts, and style of hair, and male genitalia.
> http://www.theoi.com/Ouranios/ErosHermaphroditos.html






*HERMAPHRODITUS*
Museum Collection: Museum of Art, Rhode Island School of Design, New York City, USA
Date: ca 340 BC
Period: Late Classical
SUMMARY
Hermaphroditos is depicted as a winged eros (love god) in the form of a young woman (breasts, thighs, and hair-style) with male genitalia. He/she chases a hare, an animal which for the Greeks symbolized sexual desire.





*Sleeping Hermaphroditus.Louvre*




*Ancient Roman fresco of Pan and Hermaphroditus from the House of Dioscuri in Pompeii, Naples, Italy.*





*Avalokiteshvara as Androgyne*




> A further striking feature of the iconography of Avalokiteshvara are the feminine traits which many of his portraits display. He seems, as an enigmatic being between virgin and boy with soft features and rounded breasts, to unite both sexes within himself. 
> As god of the dead (Yama) and snarling monster Avalokiteshvara also holds the wheel of life in his claws, which is in truth a death wheel (a sign of rebirth) in Buddhism. Among the twelve fundamental evils etched into the rim of the wheel which make an earthly/human existence appear worthless can be found sexual love, pregnancy and birth.
> http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/so.../Part-2-01.htm


We also have androgynous Baphomet.








*Satyr & Satyress Riccio, Andrea (Andrea Briosco) 1510-1520*
Let's look at paintings.  :Biggrin5: 


* Jusepe de Ribera, (1591  1652), Magdalena Ventura with Her Husband and Son.*




*Giovanni Battista Caracciolo (15781635), Lamentation of Adam and Eve on the Dead Abel.*





* Venus and Adonis, Giovanni Battista Caracciolo*


I was looking at William Blake's paintings. Female are quite masculine.









Did gods dreams come true?  :Reddevil:

----------


## YesNo

Apollo does look effeminate or at least boyish. If he did get older than say, 14, how is it that he could shave but not cut his hair?

----------


## ftil

> Apollo does look effeminate or at least boyish. If he did get older than say, 14, how is it that he could shave but not cut his hair?


Hm...I think that gods don't need to shave or cut their hair. After all, they are gods.  :Biggrinjester: 


Let's go back to Medea, and goddess Hecate.




> *Hellenistic religion*
> 
> Magic was practiced widely, and these too, were a continuation from earlier times. Throughout the Hellenistic world, people would consult oracles, and use charms and figurines to deter misfortune or to cast spells. Also developed in this era was the complex system of astrology, which sought to determine a person's character and future in the movements of the sun, moon, and planets. The systems of Hellenistic philosophy, such as Stoicism and Epicureanism, offered an alternative to traditional religion, even if their impact was largely limited to the educated elite.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenistic_religion






> *HEKATE (or Hecate)* *was the goddess of magic, witchcraft, the night, moon, ghosts and necromancy.* Hekate was usually depicted in Greek vase painting as a woman holding twin torches. 
> 
> *HECATE GODDESS OF THE NIGHT* 
> 
> "Torch-bearing Hekate holy daughter of great-bosomed Nyx (Night)." - Greek Lyric IV Bacchylides, Frag 1B
> 
> "Hekate ... pleased with dark ghosts that wander through the shade ... nightly seen." - Orphic Hymn 1 to Hecate
> 
> *GODDESS OF NECROMANCY & GHOSTS*
> ...



HERAKLES & KERBEROS
Museum Collection: Antikensammlungen, Munich, Germany 
Date: ca 330 - 310 BC 
Period: Late Classical / Early Hellenistic

SUMMARY
Detail of Kerberos and Hekate from a scene showing the journey of Orpheus to the Underworld. Hekate is shown dressed as a huntress, and wielding a pair of Eleusinian torches. Herakles (not shown) is dragging Kerberos away on a lead.



HEKATE or ARTEMIS
Museum Collection: State Hermitage Museum, St Petersburg, Russia 
Date: ca 500 - 450 BC
Period: Early Classical

SUMMARY
Hekate (or Artemis) is here depicted crowned and holding a pair of burning torches.




[IMG]HEKATE Museum Collection: Metropolitan Museum, New York City, USA Period: Classical SUMMARY Detail of Hekate from a painting depicting the return of Persephone to the upper world. The goddess holds a pair of burning torches.[/IMG]





HEKATE & IAKKHOS
Museum Collection: State Hermitage Museum, St Petersburg, Russia 

Date: ca. 350 BC
Period: Late Classical
SUMMARY
Side A: Detail of Hekate and Iakkhos from a painting depicting the gods of Eleusis. Other figures (not shown) include Ploutos, Persephone, Demeter, Eros, Triptolemos, Herakles, Zeus and Nike. Hekate stands between the enthroned goddesses, Demeter and Persephone, holding a pair of burning torches in her hands.LIakkhos holds one upturned and one downturned torch. 




> In Greek mythology, *Iacchus* (also Iacchos, Iakchos) is an epithet of Dionysus. Iacchus was the torch bearer of the procession from Eleusis, sometimes regarded as the herald of the 'divine child' of the Goddess, born in the underworld, and sometimes as the child itself. Iacchus was called "the light-bringing star of our nocturnal rite", giving him possible associations withSirius and Sothis.
> summon.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iacchus






*The Hecate Chiaramonti, a Roman sculpture of triple Hecate, after a Hellenistic original (Museo Chiaramonti, Vatican Museums*




*Hecate*




*Hecate*





*The Night of Enitharmon's Joy Blake's vision of Hecate, Greek goddess of black magic and the underworld and Three Fates.*






*Hecate*






*Lucien Lévy Dhurmer
French
1865-1953
"Sorceress"*

----------


## Paulclem

As god of the dead (Yama) and snarling monster Avalokiteshvara also holds the wheel of life in his claws, which is in truth a death wheel (a sign of rebirth) in Buddhism. Among the twelve fundamental evils etched into the rim of the wheel which make an earthly/human existence appear worthless can be found sexual love, pregnancy and birth.

This information is incorrect. Yama is not the wrathful incarnation of Avolokiteshvara. It is Mahalkala. (Scroll down the link below)

http://www.exoticindiaart.com/article/mahakala/

The site you have referenced has an agenda against HH The Dalai Lama, and it looks like Tibetan Buddhism in paticular. For example - 

Among the twelve fundamental evils etched into the rim of the wheel which make an earthly/human existence appear worthless can be found sexual love, pregnancy and birth.

This quote is completely misleading. The 12 Dependant Links around the outside of the Wheel Of Life do not suggest that human life is worthless. They are inteded to signify the process by which reincarnation, birth ageing sickness and death work. I think the site is intended to mislead.

----------


## YesNo

> http://www.exoticindiaart.com/article/mahakala/
> 
> The site you have referenced has an agenda against HH The Dalai Lama, and it looks like Tibetan Buddhism in paticular. For example -


Interesting articles on that site, Exotic India, Paulclem. I've bookmarked it to go over some of the others.

I couldn't find the original link that had an agenda against the Dalai Lama, but I assume this is different from the political tension between China and Tibet.

----------


## YesNo

> *Lucien Lévy Dhurmer
> French
> 1865-1953
> "Sorceress"*


Not a bad looking sorceress. She has everything, black cat, snake, lizard, potion, wand and bats, but no wart on the nose.

----------


## ftil

[QUOTE=Paulclem;1065171]As god of the dead (Yama) and snarling monster Avalokiteshvara also holds the wheel of life in his claws, which is in truth a death wheel (a sign of rebirth) in Buddhism. Among the twelve fundamental evils etched into the rim of the wheel which make an earthly/human existence appear worthless can be found sexual love, pregnancy and birth.

This information is incorrect. Yama is not the wrathful incarnation of Avolokiteshvara. It is Mahalkala. (Scroll down the link below)

http://www.exoticindiaart.com/article/mahakala/

The site you have referenced has an agenda against HH The Dalai Lama, and it looks like Tibetan Buddhism in paticular. For example - 

Among the twelve fundamental evils etched into the rim of the wheel which make an earthly/human existence appear worthless can be found sexual love, pregnancy and birth.

Thank you for your comments. I dont have the impression that the author of this book has an agenda against Dalai Lama but he is exposing what we have not been told. If you look at references you will find a quite impressive list of books, Tibetan authors included based on which he wrote his book. Madame Blavatsky went to Tibet and India where she received her teachings. Interestingly enough, she didnt reveal her teachings she received in Tibet. We may ask why she kept secret. The author is aware of if and he tries to reveal as much as it was revealed. I believe that we need to start question everything rather than blindly follow the teachings.  :Wink5:  

References.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/so...ferences.htmIf

----------


## Paulclem

The opulent sun symbolism which is so closely linked to the figure of this Buddha has led several western oriented scholars to describe Buddhism in total as a solar cult.

The two examples I highlighted and the use of the word "cult" which appears above, plus lots of references in the text to tantric sex, and the implied attacks on HH convince me that this site is unreliable and has an agenda. 

Why would the person - or persons - who wrote this site and who are clearly informed about Tibetan Buddhism - make such a basic mistake as to equate Avolokiteshvara with Yama? HH The Dalai Lama is Avolkiteshvara's incarnation. It is a basic and damaging mistake. 

 During the ritual a falcon with a snake in its claws is supposed to have appeared in the sky. In it the participants saw the mythic bird, garuda, representing the patriarchal power which destroys the feminine in the form of a snake. [4] Do we have here the image of a tantric wish according to which the West is already supposed to fall into the clutches of Tibetan Buddhism in the near future?


If this isn't an attack on HH The Dalai Lama - through an attack on the Kalachakra Ceremony - then I don't know what is. 

The author is aware of if and he tries to reveal as much as it was revealed. I believe that we need to start question everything rather than blindly follow the teachings.

You need to be aware that there are interested parties for whom the discrediting of HH and Tibetan Buddhism in particular is desirable. Shugden supporters are mentioned, but westerners are mentioned a number of times leading me to suspect that this is a Chinese sponsored site. 

Your advice to me is misplaced. The The Buddha's own words at the end if his life were to say "Be a lamp to yourself". It is one of the reasons I admire Buddhism. 

All I'm saying is that this site has an agenda and is unreliable as I have tried to show you. Don't base you views on it. All the best.  :Biggrin5:

----------


## Paulclem

> Interesting articles on that site, Exotic India, Paulclem. I've bookmarked it to go over some of the others.
> 
> I couldn't find the original link that had an agenda against the Dalai Lama, but I assume this is different from the political tension between China and Tibet.


Thanks YesNo. 

The site makes some very anti - Buddhist and anti-Dalai Lama claims. I suspect it is of Chinese origin.  :Biggrin5:

----------


## stlukesguild

> hello everyone maybe you can help me im looking for an oil painting similar to this one
> 
> 
> in the painting im looking for is a woman in a white silk see-thru gown, she has curly hair and wears laurels. shes standing under a archway or doorway looking at small birds bathe in a saucer. it seems to be a Romanesk or greek painting judging by the architecture but i believe it might be made within the 18th century. i had a print of it and lost it and having a hell of a time finding it again. please help ty


Again, the painting is by William-Adolphe Bouguereau and is entitled _Evening Mood_. You may find a great wealth of Bouguereau's work at this site:

http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/M...ar_Artists.php

----------


## ftil

> The opulent sun symbolism which is so closely linked to the figure of this Buddha has led several western oriented scholars to describe Buddhism in total as a solar cult.
> 
> The two examples I highlighted and the use of the word "cult" which appears above, plus lots of references in the text to tantric sex, and the implied attacks on HH convince me that this site is unreliable and has an agenda. 
> 
> Why would the person - or persons - who wrote this site and who are clearly informed about Tibetan Buddhism - make such a basic mistake as to equate Avolokiteshvara with Yama? HH The Dalai Lama is Avolkiteshvara's incarnation. It is a basic and damaging mistake. 
> 
>  During the ritual a falcon with a snake in its claws is supposed to have appeared in the sky. In it the participants saw the mythic bird, garuda, representing the patriarchal power which destroys the feminine in the form of a snake. [4] Do we have here the image of a tantric wish according to which the West is already supposed to fall into the clutches of Tibetan Buddhism in the near future?
> 
> 
> ...


Hm.. have you read a whole book to make an evaluation? I havent finished reading it and I cant make up my mind yet. You may find this book on a number of websites and I think that you are making far-fetched conclusions by making assumptions about that particular website.  :Wink5: 

People are waking up. Scott Peck, the author of bestselling book The road less traveled had been practicing Buddhism for 20 years and left. S. Peck or the author of that book would be better for that kind of discussions as I didnt study Buddhism to such a depth.  :Brow:  Another example is Bronte Baxter who had been involved in Maharsishi movement for 17 yers and left too and her website is popular. There are more websites, of course, and I am happy about as I was involved in Eastern religions but not any more. 

I understand that you have accepted Buddhist teaching without questioning. I am afraid that we would not have that much in common as I question everything. When we accept beliefs as the truth we look for all evidence that confirms our beliefs. I dont do this but I constantly ask questions. Secondly I dont give any advice but it is my deep wish that people start questioning. I stand strong for empowerment and following teachings without questioning is not empowering. We just repeat somebodys truth. Finally, why Blavatsky kept a secret about teachings she received in Tibet. Would I trust any teacher who keep secretes?
Absolutely not!

Food for thought. 




> *Excerpt from The Secret Doctrine by H. P. Blavatsky  Vol. 2*
> 
> 
> *VOL. 2, PAGE 233 HOLY SATAN.*
> 
> The true esoteric view about Satan, the opinion held on this subject by the whole philosophic antiquity, is admirably brought out in an appendix, entitled The Secret of Satan, to the second edition of Dr. A. Kingsfords Perfect Way. No better and clearer indication of the truth could be offered to the intelligent reader, and it is therefore quoted here at some length: 
> 
> 1. And on the seventh day (seventh creation of the Hindus),* there went forth from the presence of God a mighty Angel, full of wrath and consuming, and God gave him the dominion of the outermost sphere.
> 
> ...



Madame Blavatsky, I don't think so!  :Biggrin5:

----------


## Paulclem

> Hm.. have you read a whole book to make an evaluation? I havent finished reading it and I cant make up my mind yet. You may find this book on a number of websites and I think that you are making far-fetched conclusions by making assumptions about that particular website. 
> 
> People are waking up. Scott Peck, the author of bestselling book The road less traveled had been practicing Buddhism for 20 years and left. S. Peck or the author of that book would be better for that kind of discussions as I didnt study Buddhism to such a depth.  Another example is Bronte Baxter who had been involved in Maharsishi movement for 17 yers and left too and her website is popular. There are more websites, of course, and I am happy about as I was involved in Eastern religions but not any more. 
> 
> I understand that you have accepted Buddhist teaching without questioning. I am afraid that we would not have that much in common as I question everything. When we accept beliefs as the truth we look for all evidence that confirms our beliefs. I dont do this but I constantly ask questions. Secondly I dont give any advice but it is my deep wish that people start questioning. I stand strong for empowerment and following teachings without questioning is not empowering. We just repeat somebodys truth. Finally, why Blavatsky kept a secret about teachings she received in Tibet. Would I trust any teacher who keep secretes?
> Absolutely not!
> 
> Food for thought. 
> 
> ...


My conclusions are not far fetched - the purpose of the website is clear. It is of course up to you what conclusions you draw. The quote you used about Avolokiteshvara is wrong - so there are problems with validity in the site - but it doesn't take much depth of reading to note the agenda. I'm only pointing it out so you can check yourself. 

I'm not familiar with Scott Peck, but a number of people have trained in Buddhism and left very publicly. It's up to the individual and aways their choice. Buddhism is not without disputes and problems.

I understand that you have accepted Buddhist teaching without questioning. 

Did I? 

I stand strong for empowerment and following teachings without questioning is not empowering. We just repeat somebodys truth. 

The teachings are about finding out whether what is taught is true. A suck it and see approach. I like that. The purpose of the teacher is to guide the student as they make their journey. No-one can make it for them. A road map is useful though. 

Finally, why Blavatsky kept a secret about teachings she received in Tibet. Would I trust any teacher who keep secretes?
Absolutely not!

Madame Blavatsky has nothng to do with Tibetan Buddhism. She claimed that she had received teachings from Lamas in Tibet - perhaps she did - but it didn't emerge in her own stuff. As a Spiritualist with a dodgy reputation -Spiritualists don't use or refer to her - Tibetan Buddhism would have made her books etc exotic and interesting at that time as no-one knew much about the place. For a long time it had been closed to foreigners.

Thee are teachings kept secret in Buddhism though. It's not so surprising really. The wrathful Deities referred to such as Mahakala - the wrathful form of Avolkieshvara - is one of the Tantric deities. Tantra is secret because it is very potent. It is secret for a purpose until a serious practitioner is ready. We all know how it can be misinterpreted. 

Paintings have own language and I can't agree with " authority" interpretation.

Do you have a problem with authority? Questioning is good, but don't you think there needs to be a purpose resolved in the end? In this thread I see you putting up these brilliant images with no interpretation, no linking idea and no input from you. The brief to encourage people to do their own investigation - to what? At some point there nees to be a guide, a premise and discussion. The guide is you - what's your thoughts?

----------


## billl

> Again, the painting is by William-Adolphe Bouguereau and is entitled _Evening Mood_. You may find a great wealth of Bouguereau's work at this site:
> 
> http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/M...ar_Artists.php


St. Lukes, you are undoubtedly mogarbobac's best hope around here, but the mission isn't quite the one you've been working on. They are looking for a similar painting with some particular elements not found in this one.

----------


## ftil

> Do you have a problem with authority? Questioning is good, but don't you think there needs to be a purpose resolved in the end? In this thread I see you putting up these brilliant images with no interpretation, no linking idea and no input from you. The brief to encourage people to do their own investigation - to what? At some point there nees to be a guide, a premise and discussion. The guide is you - what's your thoughts?



Well, I dont want to influence people what I think for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I want to use as less as possible words to keep the reader in a right brain as images help to access unconsciousness.

Secondly, we have been trained to be passive and not to question. In fact, there were researches done in US a decade ago according to which 2/3 American dont have the ability to think critically at all. I dont want to be a part of the problem. I also dont want to be engaged in meaningless discussions that take me away from my research. By meaningless discussion I mean discussion where people fight to death to defend their beliefs rather than questioning. I love discussion that provide mental stimulation that fosters my growth. 

Thirdly, it is interesting that you ask for interpretation and guidance. Sorry, but only children need guidance and interpretation. It would be very disempowering and disrespectful to treat adults like children. After all, life is about personal growth and personal truth.

Finally, I do have a problem with authorities. Show me the authority who is opened to criticism and challenge. Most of them become so defensive when criticized or challenged. But I love authorities who are open minded, not being afraid of any challenges.  :Smile5: 

I would rather go back to mythology. Underworld gods are quite interesting.  :Biggrin5:

----------


## Paulclem

I do have a problem with authorities. Show me the authority who is opened to criticism and challenge. Most of them become so defensive when criticized or challenged.

It is interesting that you say this. 

And then this.

Thirdly, it is interesting that you ask for interpretation and guidance. Sorry, but only children need guidance and interpretation. It would be very disempowering and disrespectful to treat adults like children. After all, life is about personal growth and personal truth.

I find this a bit defensive if not rather abrasive. Anyway I was just making a suggestion generally not particularly for myself. No worries. I won't bother you anymore.

----------


## ftil

> [COLOR="DarkRed"]
> 
> I find this a bit defensive if not rather abrasive. Anyway I was just making a suggestion generally not particularly for myself. No worries. I won't bother you anymore.



Well, I said that we didnt have that much in common.But you havent paid attention, and as such, you have forced me to be more direct. BTW, you can only speak for yourself. I am sure that there are people who enjoy freedom of not being told what they should think.

----------


## ftil

Before I go back to gods of darkness, I want to post paintings I like very much.

*Gustave Moreau*



*Saint Sebastian and the Angel*





*Apollo Vanquishing the Serpent Python*





*Cleopatra*






*Desdemone*







*Goddess on the Rocks*







*Hesiod and the Muses*








*Leda 2*







*The Suitors - detail*







*Phaethon*

----------


## stlukesguild

St. Lukes, you are undoubtedly mogarbobac's best hope around here, but the mission isn't quite the one you've been working on. They are looking for a similar painting with some particular elements not found in this one.

Missed the text beneath the oversized image:

_in the painting im looking for is a woman in a white silk see-thru gown, she has curly hair and wears laurels. shes standing under a archway or doorway looking at small birds bathe in a saucer. it seems to be a Romanesk or greek painting judging by the architecture but i believe it might be made within the 18th century. i had a print of it and lost it and having a hell of a time finding it again. please help ty_



John Reinhard Weguelin- Lesbia

----------


## ftil

*HYPNOS*




> Hypnos (or Hypnus) was the god or spirit (daimon) of sleep. He resided in Erebos, the land of eternal darkness, beyond the gates of the rising sun. From there he rose into the sky each night in the train of his mother Nyx (Night). Hypnos was often paired with his twin brother Thanatos (Peaceful Death), and theOneiroi (Dreams) were his brothers or sons.
> Hypnos was depicted as a young man with wings on his shoulders or brow. His attributes included either a horn of sleep-inducing opium, a poppy-stem, a branch dripping water from the river Lethe (Forgetfulness), or an inverted torch.
> http://www.theoi.com/Daimon/Hypnos.html





> His palace was a dark cave where the sun never shines. At the entrance were a number of poppies and other hypnogogic plants.
> 
> Hypnos' three sons or brothers represented things that occur in dreams (theOneiroi). Morpheus, Phobetor and Phantasos appear in the dreams of kings. According to one story, Hypnos lived in a cave underneath a Greek island; through this cave flowed Lethe, the river of forgetfulness.
> 
> Hypnos was portrayed as a naked youthful man, sometimes with a beard, and wings attached to his head. He is sometimes shown as a man asleep on a bed of feathers with black curtains about him. Morpheus is his chief minister and prevents noises from waking him. In Sparta, the image of Hypnos was always put near that of death.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnos





> Still another story tells that Hypnos and his twin brother lived in the Underworld. Hypnos fathered three sons. These sons represented things which happened in dreams. The sons appeared in the dreams of the kings. They were known as the Oneiroi, and their names were Morpheous, Phobetor, and Phantasos.
> http://www.thegreekgods.org/Hypnos_Greek_Mythology.htm




The J Paul Getty Museum, Malibu, California

*SUMMARY*

The winged god Hypnos (Sleep personified) crouches in slumber on the chest of the giant Alkyoneus. The giant reclines in sleep, holding his club, and surrounded by his cattle. Herakles (not shown) sneaks up upon him.





Hypnos and Thanatos carrying dead Sarpedon, while Hermes watches. Inscriptions in ancient Greek: HVPNOS-HERMES-θΑΝΑΤΟS (here written vice versa). Attic red-figured calyx-krater, 515 BC.





Hypnos and Thanatos carrying the body of Sarpedon from the battlefield of Troy. Detail from an Attic white-ground lekythos, ca. 440 BC.













Hypnos - relief by Johann Gottfried Schadow for a side panel on the tomb of Count Alexander von der Mark





Johann Heinrich Füssli Sleep and Death carrying away Sarpedon of Lycia





Waterhouse, Sleep and his Half-Brother Death






Sculpture "Thanatos draagt zijn tweelingbroer Hypnos" (Thanatos carries his twinbrother Hypnos) by Jack Poell in 1986.

----------


## ftil

> *NYX* was the goddess of the night, one of the ancient Protogenoi (first-born elemental gods). In the cosmogony of Hesiod she was born of Air (Khaos), and breeding with Darkness (Erebos) produced Light (Aither) and Day (Hemera), first components of the primeval universe. Alone, she spawned a brood of dark spirits, including the three Fates, Sleep, Death, Strife and Pain.
> 
> In ancient art Nyx was portrayed as a either a winged goddess or charioteer, sometimes crowned with an aureole of dark mist.
> 
> Hesiod, Theogony 211 ff (trans. Evelyn-White) (Greek epic C8th or C7th B.C.): 
> "And Nyx bare hateful Moros (Doom of Death) and black Ker (Fate of Death) and Thanatos (Death), and she bare Hypnos (Sleep) and the tribe of Oneiroi (Dreams). And again the goddess murky Nyx, though she lay with none, bare Momos (Criticism) and painful Oizys (Misery), and the Hesperides (Evenings) . . . Also she bare the Moirai (Fates) and the ruthless avenging Keres (Deaths) . . . Also deadly Nyx bare Nemesis to afflict mortal men, and after her, Apate (Deceit) and Philotes (Sex) and hateful Geras (Old Age) and hard-hearted Eris (Strife)."
> Virgil, Aeneid 12. 848 ff :
> "Two demon fiends there are, called by the name of Furiae [Erinyes], whom darkest Nox (Night) brought forth at one and the same birth with hellish Megaera, breeding all three alike with the twining coils of serpents and giving them wings like the wind . . . the spawn of Nox (Night)."
> 
> ...





*Gustave Moreau - Night*





*Night, Edward Burne-Jones*






*Edward Robert Hughes, Night*










*Evelyn De Morgan, Night and Sleep*

----------


## ftil

Let's continue with Circe, Medea's sister.




> *Diodorus Siculus, Library of History* 4. 45. 1 (Greek historian C1st B.C.) :
> "[A late rationalisation of the myth of Kirke :] She [Hekate, the daughter of Perses brother of Aeetes] married Aeetes and bore two daughters, Circe and Medea, and a son Aigialeus."
> 
> Circe ( or Kirke) was a goddess pharmakeia (witch or sorceress) who lived with her nymph attendants on the mythical island of Aiaia. She was skilled in the magic of metamorphosis, the power of illusion, and the dark art of necromancy. When Odysseus landed on her island she transformed his men into animals, but with the help of the god Hermes, he overcame the goddess and forced her to release his men from her spell. Kirke's name was derived from the Greek verb kirkoômeaning "to secure with rings" or "hoop around"--a reference to her magical powers.
> 
> *CIRCE, a mythical sorceress,* whom Homer calls a fair-locked goddess, a daughter of Helios by the Oceanid Perse, and a sister of Aeëtes. (Od. x. 135.) She lived in the island of Aeaea; and when Odysseus on his wanderings came to her island, Circe, after having changed several of his companions into pigs, became so much attached to the unfortunate hero, that he was induced to remain a whole year with her.
> Kirke was sometimes regarded as the inventress of magic and spells. In the Homeric Epigram she is invoked almost as the daimona (spirit) of magic.
> 
> *Homer's Epigrams* 14 (Greek epic C8th B.C.) :
> ...





> Circe transformed her enemies, or those who offended her, into animals through the use of magical potions. She was known for her knowledge of drugs and herbs,
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circe




*CIRCE*
Museum Collection: Staatliche Kunstammlungen, Albertinum, Dresden, Germany
Date: ca 460 BC 
*SUMMARY*
The witch Kirke transforms one of Odysseus' men into a boar. The man is depicted partially transformed with a beast's head, tail and hooves. Kirke holds the potion and a wand in her hands.




*ODYSSEUS & KIRKE*
Museum Collection: Metropolitan Museum, New York City, USA
Period: Classical
*SUMMARY*
Odysseus threatens the witch Kirke with his sword. She flees from her chair, dropping her wand and potion. One of Odysseus' men is shown in partially transformed with the head and tail of a boar.




> *Ovid, Metamorphoses* 10. 403: 
> "She [the witch Cirke] sprinkled round about her evil drugs and poisonous essences, and out of Erebos and Chaos called Nox (Night) and the Di Nocti (Gods of Night) and poured a prayer with long-drawn wailing cries to Hecate. The woods (wonder of wonders!) leapt away, a groan came from the ground, the bushes blanched, the spattered sward was soaked with gouts of blood, stones brayed and bellowed, dogs began to bark, black snakes swarmed on the soil and ghostly shapes of silent spirits floated through the air."
> http://www.theoi.com/Protogenos/Nyx.html





*Sorceress John William Waterhouse*





*Circe Offering the Cup to Odysseus, byJohn William Waterhouse.*






*Circe Invidiosa - John William Waterhouse*





*Dosso Dossi, Circe*





*Lorenzo Garbieri Circe*





*Franz von Stuck Tilla Durieux als Circe*






*Circe , Edward Burne-Jones*

*Dante Gabriel Rossetti*

The Wine of Circe
Year written: 1869
Written for the picture 'The Wine of Circe' by Sir Edward Burne-Jones. Large watercolour, 1863-9. Crouching Circe puts potion in jar, as new ships put into her harbour; black panthers, ex-sailors, earlier potion drinkers, snuffle about their female bewitcher. Exhibited 1869.

Dusk-haired and gold-robed o'er the golden wine
She stoops, wherein, distilled of death and shame,
Sink the black drops; while, lit with fragrant flame,
Round her spread board the golden sunflowers shine.
Doth Helios here with Hecate combine
(O Circe, thou their votaress?) to proclaim
For these thy guests all rapture in Love's name,
Till pitiless Night give Day the countersign?

Lords of their hour, they come. And by her knee
Those cowering beasts, their equal heretofore,
Wait; who with them in new equality
To-night shall echo back the unchanging roar
Which sounds forever from the tide-strown shore
Where the dishevelled seaweed hates the sea.





*John Melhuish Strudwick.Circë and Scylla.*

George Holt discovered Strudwicks work in the collection of rival Liverpool shipowner William Imrie at the Holmstead, North Mossley Hill Road. In 1890 he decided he wanted his own painting by the artist and purchased this subject, taken from Greek mythology as retold by the Roman author Ovid. The enchantress Circe, jealous of the maid Scylla with whom her favourite Glaucus has fallen in love, poisons the water in which Scylla is about to bathe, turning her into a sea monster.





*Elisabetta Sirani,Circe*






* John Flaxman*






*Gustav-Adolf Mossa, Circé*






*John Collier, Circe*






* Briton Riviere Circe and her Swine.*






*Arthur Hacker, Circe*






*Giovanni Benedetto Castiglione, GiovanniBenedettoCastiglione-Circe-Changing-Ulysses-Men-into-Animals*











*Circe, Wright Barker*






*Maxfield Parrish Circe Palace*







*Wilhelm Schubert von Ehrenberg (animals by Carl Borromäus Andreas Ruthart), "Ulysses at the Palace of Circe"*

----------


## ftil

> *Zeus is armed with thunder and lightning*, and the shaking of his aegis produces storm and tempest (Il. xvii. 593) : a number of epithets of Zeus in the Homeric poems describe him as the thunderer, the gatherer of clouds, and the like.
> http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Zeus.html



*ZEUS*

Musée du Louvre, Paris, France 
Date: ca 470 - 460 BC
Period: Late Archaic

*SUMMARY*

Zeus aims his lightning bolt at a giant (not shown). An eagle sits perched on his other hand.




> *The Vajra*
> *The Sanskrit term "vajra" denoted the thunderbolt*, a legendary weapon and divine attribute that was made from an adamantine, or indestructible, substance and which could therefore pierce and penetrate any obstacle or obfuscation. It is the weapon of choice of Indra, the King of the Devas in Hinduism. As a secondary meaning, "vajra" refers to this indestructible substance, and so is sometimes translated as "adamantine" or "diamond". So the Vajrayana is sometimes rendered in English as "The Adamantine Vehicle" or "The Diamond Vehicle".
> A vajra is also a scepter-like ritual object (Tibetan: རྡོ་རྗེ་ dorje), which has a sphere (and sometimes a gankyil) at its centre, and a variable number of spokes, 3, 5 or 9 at each end (depending on the sadhana), enfolding either end of the rod. The vajra is often traditionally employed in tantric rituals in combination with the bell or ghanta; symbolically, the vajra may represent method as well as great bliss and the bell stands for wisdom, specifically the wisdom realizing emptiness or lack of inherent existence.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajrayana


Another explanation of vajra.




> Since a "vajra" is a diamond, this term means "The Diamond Way.
> http://uwacadweb.uwyo.edu/religionet...m/bglossry.htm


We have omphalos stone in Greek mythology.



*ORESTES AT DELPHI*

British Museum, London, United Kingdom 
Date: ca 350 - 340 BC
Period: Late Classical

*SUMMARY*

Orestes seeks refuge from the avenging Furies (Erinyes) of his mother Klytaimnestra at the shrine of Delphoi. *He grasps hold of the omphalos stone* beneath the sacred tripod as a suppliant of the god. Apollon receives him, and turns to face one of the pursuing Erinyes. He is wreathed in laurel, and holds a laurel branch staff. On the other side stands Athene, Orestes' patron-goddess, who has guided him to the altar. She wears a helm and her gorgon-headed aigis cloak. Above her is the ghost of Klytaimnestra, who drives the Erinyes against her son to avenge the crime of matricide. The two Erinyes are depicted as huntresses, wearing short-skirts and hunting boots. Their arms and hair are wreathed with poisonous serpents. One of the pair is winged.

In Hindu we have The Mantra *Om Kali Ma*.
Shiva is called *OM Shiva, Krishna OM Krishna.* In Buddhism we have The Mantra *Om Mani Padme Hum*. Sai Baba is called *OM Sai Ram,* Adi DA is called *OM Adi Da*.
And *OM*phalos.

So, Goddess Kali is called KALI MA. In Islam KALIMAH means that there is no God but Allah. Is it a coincidence of perhaps not. 

Goddess Kali is called OM KALI MA and in India they worship Kali Yoni.


A fine example of yoni puja: 
A male and female pray and offer their thanks to the Goddess, 
here represented by the stylised vulva. 
From the Sixty-Four-Yogini temple at Bheragat.
Madhya Pradesh, 12th century.

So, if Islam KALIMAH means that there is no God but Allah.Do we have KALI Yoni? 




> At Mecca the Goddess was Shaybah or Sheba, the Old Woman, worshipped as a black aniconic stone like the Godess of the Scythian Amazons. The sacred Black Stone now enshrined in the Kaaba at Mecca was her feminine symbol, marked by the sign of the yoni, and covered like the ancient Mother by a veil. 
> http://goddesschess.blogspot.com/200...-at-mecca.html


More connection of Islam with Vedic Shiva and Kali.




> The great Muslim traveler from Valencia, Ibn Jubayr (1145-1217) describes the emotion he felt on touching the stone, The stone, when one kisses it, has a softness and freshness which delights the mouth; so much so that he who places his lips upon it wishes never to remove them. It suffices, moreover, that the Prophet said that it is the Right Hand of God on Earth.
> 
> Muslim pilgrims visiting the Kaaba temple go around it seven times. In no other mosque does the circumambulation prevail. Hindus invariably circumambulate around their deities. This is yet another proof that the Kaaba shrine is a pre-Islamic Indian Shiva temple where the Hindu practice of circumambulation is still meticulously observed.
> ()
> Recital of the Namaz five times a day owes its origin to the Vedic injunction of Panchmahayagna (five daily worship- Panch-Maha-Yagna) which is part of the daily Vedic ritual prescribed for all individuals.
> Muslims are enjoined cleanliness of five parts of the body before commencing prayers. This derives from the Vedic injuction Shareer Shydhyartham Panchanga Nyasah.
> http://ristorantemystica.wordpress.c...-of-the-kaaba/



*Black Stone in Kaaba*


Lets look at more connections.




> The noun form venus means "love" and "sexual desire" in Latin and has connections to venerari (to honour, to try to please) andvenia (grace, favour) through a possible common root in an Indo-European *wenes-, comparable to Sanskrit vanas- "lust, desire".
> Venus' name might embody the function of honours and gifts to the divine when seeking their favours: such acts can be interpreted as the enticement, seduction or charm of gods by mortals. The ambivalence of this function is suggested in the etymological relationship of the root *venes- with Latin venenum (poison, venom), in the sense of "a charm, magic philtre".
> http://www.enotes.com/topic/Venus_(mythology)


philtre means potion




*The Love Potion, Evelyn de Morgan*






> Intrestingly enough goddess Venus is called Venus *Kalli*pygos. 
> The Venus Kallipygos or Aphrodite Kallipygos, also known as the Callipygian Venus, all literally meaning "Venus (or Aphrodite) of the beautiful buttocks"[
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_Kallipygos



We can also find Kali Limni.




Lets look at Olympus and Mount Kailash.




> According to the Homeric account Zeus, like the other Olympian gods, dwelt on Mount Olympus in Thessaly, which was believed to penetrate with its lofty summit into heaven itself (Il. i. 221, &c., 354, 609, xxi. 438). He is called the father of gods and men (i. 514, v. 33; comp. Aeschyl. Sept. 512), the most high and powerful among the immortals, whom all others obey (Il. xix. 258, viii. 10, &c.). He is the highest ruler, who with his counsel manages every thing (i. 175, viii. 22), the founder of kingly power, of law and of order, whence Dice, Themis and Nemesis are his assistants (i. 238, ii. 205, ix. 99, xvi. 387; comp. Hes. Op. et D. 36 ; Callim.Hymn. in Jov. 79). http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Zeus.html




*Hinduism*




> Hindus regard Mount Kailash as the earthly manifestation of Mount Meru - the spiritual center of the Universe. It is a World Pillar, its roots in the lowest hell and its top kissing the heavens. On the summit sits Lord Shiva sits in a state of perpetual meditation with his consort Parvati. Below, Manasarovar floats in the shadow of holy Kailash as the lake formed in the mind of God.
> Some traditions also aver that the mountain is Shivas lingam and Lake Manasarovar below is the yoni of his consort Parvati.
> http://buddhistsymbols.info/kailash/



*Shiva and Parvati On Mount Meru*


*Buddhism*



> Mount Kailash is known in Tibetan as Kang Rimpoche (meaning Precious One of Glacial Snow), or by its aboriginal name Ti-Se.
> 
> The Tantric Buddhists believe that Kailash is the home of the Buddha Demchog(Chakrasamvara in Sanskrit, whose name is in fact, an epithet of Shiva) who represents supreme bliss, and his consort Dorje Phamo. The two symbolize compassion and wisdom, making Kailash and Manasarovar the perfect complement: father and mother of the Earth. Dorje Phamo is usually associated with a small peak next to Kailash called Tijung.
> http://buddhistsymbols.info/kailash/





*Chakrasamvara Yab-Yum With Dorje Phamo*





> According to one of legends, the Buddha emanated the mandala palace on the top of Mount Kailash and adopted this archetype deity form of Chakrasamvara to teach the knowledge of tantrato Shiva and Parvati.
> http://buddhistsymbols.info/kailash/

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## osho

I like all these fabulous paintings, something of which we have yet to interpret. It created a mood inside me with the justification that humans often feeling remorse for the indulgences they had in their lives could justify the urges and they were culturally, religiously entrenched inside us and we thru our moral senses try to uproot them and in the course of it they get more deeply entrenched.

Such ancient paintings, sculptures scattered in different scriptural texts in most religions need reinterpretations. Freud had done a good job and yet that was far from being complete. Human motives are so wild and untamable that our civilization tries to smother them. That is why we have stresses and anxieties since they are not addressed in our society. 
In our ancient society our deep seated urges are symbolically interpreted. Temples are sacred places yet sex was figuratively put on view and some of the truths society and religion bottling up are laid bare symbolically and conscientiously.

These paintings have some messages I always want to address and yet it is not that easy since our language is not rich enough to contain some profound truths these paintings depict. If we can marry the symbolisms of these paintings with modern interpretations for making it intelligible to the layperson I am sure we can dig up some of the deep seated human impulses and address them consequently that will leave healing effects on our sick society

----------


## ftil

> I like all these fabulous paintings, something of which we have yet to interpret. It created a mood inside me with the justification that humans often feeling remorse for the indulgences they had in their lives could justify the urges and they were culturally, religiously entrenched inside us and we thru our moral senses try to uproot them and in the course of it they get more deeply entrenched.
> 
> Such ancient paintings, sculptures scattered in different scriptural texts in most religions need reinterpretations. Freud had done a good job and yet that was far from being complete. Human motives are so wild and untamable that our civilization tries to smother them. That is why we have stresses and anxieties since they are not addressed in our society. 
> In our ancient society our deep seated urges are symbolically interpreted. Temples are sacred places yet sex was figuratively put on view and some of the truths society and religion bottling up are laid bare symbolically and conscientiously.
> 
> These paintings have some messages I always want to address and yet it is not that easy since our language is not rich enough to contain some profound truths these paintings depict. If we can marry the symbolisms of these paintings with modern interpretations for making it intelligible to the layperson I am sure we can dig up some of the deep seated human impulses and address them consequently that will leave healing effects on our sick society


Yes, ancient temples were sacred places.where sacred prostitution was performed. Today, guru centers are not free from violent acts and rape of women. Those paintings and artifacts have some message but it has nothing to do with healing our society. If you look deeper at gods cults, for example Dionysus/Bacchus, you have to ask how sexual orgies, ritual madness, and drunkenness can heal society. I agree that society needs healing but I totally disagree that it can happen through pagan practices of worshiping gods with prostitution, ritual madness, or drunkenness.  :Biggrin5:

----------


## osho

> Yes, ancient temples were sacred places.where sacred prostitution was performed. Today, guru centers are not free from violent acts and rape of women. Those paintings and artifacts have some message but it has nothing to do with healing our society. If you look deeper at gods cults, for example Dionysus/Bacchus, you have to ask how sexual orgies, ritual madness, and drunkenness can heal society. I agree that society needs healing but I totally disagree that it can happen through pagan practices of worshiping gods with prostitution, ritual madness, or drunkenness.


All I want to say is we have hidden desires. Do you agree? We often see funny dreams. Sometime we have sex with the ones we never can conceive of in our wakefulness. And some people fail to interpret this and Freud did it well. If I see a beautiful lady on the street it is not unnatural for me to weave a dream to be with her. Yet consciously, socially, ethically I try to distance myself from the initiation. Every one has a fantasy though we do not express them though write them thru poems or novels.

From that standpoint all I feel is most of what we see in temples about erotic statues or orgies have some implications that have their roots in our unconscious states. These erotic are not improper or obscene as you think. 

These ancient texts or pagan cultures are reflective of our real natures. We choose to blanket us by our social values. Come out of the cover you will find your real self, not the painted self.

----------


## ftil

> All I want to say is we have hidden desires. Do you agree? We often see funny dreams. Sometime we have sex with the ones we never can conceive of in our wakefulness. And some people fail to interpret this and Freud did it well. If I see a beautiful lady on the street it is not unnatural for me to weave a dream to be with her. Yet consciously, socially, ethically I try to distance myself from the initiation. Every one has a fantasy though we do not express them though write them thru poems or novels.
> 
> From that standpoint all I feel is most of what we see in temples about erotic statues or orgies have some implications that have their roots in our unconscious states. These erotic are not improper or obscene as you think. 
> 
> These ancient texts or pagan cultures are reflective of our real natures. We choose to blanket us by our social values. Come out of the cover you will find your real self, not the painted self.




Hey, you can only speak for yourself.  :Biggrin5:  If I see a beautiful ladyI dont have a dream to be with her. LOL! I may be moved by her beauty. Thats all.
Our perception is different. You cant make assumptions that everybody feels and thinks as you do. As I said earlier, we have a different idea about eroticism and I wouldnt want blood thirsty Kalis eroticism. 

I hear you that those pagan temples reflect your nature. Again, dont make assumptions that it applies to everybody.  :Biggrin5: 

You may be happy with the idea of temple prostitution, I dont. I am sure that many women would share my opinion. 

BTW, I dont take seriously Freud theory. A number of psychiatrists moved away from his theory and developed growth promoting theory.

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## Buh4Bee

Freud had an agenda and interpreted the world as he saw fit. This also means that he was wrong at times. Not everything is about sex, and often our dreams can only be interpreted by the person who had the dream. Particularly if the person is insightful about herself.

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## ftil

> Freud had an agenda and interpreted the world as he saw fit. This also means that he was wrong at times. Not everything is about sex, and often our dreams can only be interpreted by the person who had the dream. Particularly if the person is insightful about herself.


I am in total agreement with you.  :Smile5:  Freud developed his theory to heal his problems. Lol I was reading the analysis of his genogram and I am not surprised. But the problem is when people use his theory and justify their behaviors. It would be sad if human life was only about sex.

Secondly, there are differences between women and men. Assuming that women have the same hidden desires as men would be misleading. I can’t speak on behalf all women but I speak for myself. I don’t have a dream when I see a handsome man. How would I have a dream about a man that I don’t know?  :Biggrin5:  Nice muscles….not good enough for me.LOL! 
I agree that dreams can only be understood and interpreted by a person who has a dream. It requires having insights.

----------


## ftil

Let's look at thunderbolt again.




> Zeus aims his lightning bolt at a giant. An eagle sits perched on his other hand.
> 
> 
> *The Vajra*
> The Sanskrit term "*vajra" denoted the thunderbolt*, a legendary weapon and divine attribute that was made from an adamantine, or indestructible, substance and which could therefore pierce and penetrate any obstacle or obfuscation. It is the weapon of choice of Indra, the King of the Devas in Hinduism. As a secondary meaning, "vajra" refers to this indestructible substance, and so is sometimes translated as "adamantine" or "diamond". So the Vajrayana is sometimes rendered in English as "The Adamantine Vehicle" or "The Diamond Vehicle".
> A vajra is also a scepter-like ritual object (Tibetan: རྡོ་རྗེ་ dorje), which has a sphere (and sometimes a gankyil) at its centre, and a variable number of spokes, 3, 5 or 9 at each end (depending on the sadhana), enfolding either end of the rod. The vajra is often traditionally employed in tantric rituals in combination with the bell or ghanta; symbolically, the vajra may represent method as well as great bliss and the bell stands for wisdom, specifically the wisdom realizing emptiness or lack of inherent existence.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajrayana
> Another explanation of vajra.
> 
> ...


Zeus



*Zeus/Jupiter*

Museum Collection: Antikensammlungen, Munich, Germany 
Date: ca 480 BC
Period: Late Archaic / Early Classical

SUMMARY

Zeus stands holding a lightning bolt in one hand and a royal sceptre in the other




*Jupiter of Smyrna*





> Another highly significant symbol for the masculine force and the phallus is a symmetrical ritual object called the vajra. As the divine virility is pure and unshakable, the vajra is described as a diamond or jewel. As a thunderbolt it is one of the lightning symbols. Everything masculine is termed vajra. It is thus no surprise that the male seed is also known as vajra. The Tibetan translation of the Sanskrit word is dorje, which also has additional meanings, all of which are naturally associated with the masculine half of the universe. The Tibetans term the translucent colors of the sky and firmament dorje. Even in pre-Buddhist times the peoples of the Himalayas worshipped the vault of the heavens as their divine Father.
> http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/so.../Part-1-02.htm




*Vajra and Gantha (bell)*











I will return to the thunderbolt later and its connection with the theory of electric universe and plasma weapon.

Let's look at androgyny again.




Shiva Ardhanari "half-female" holds the vina which partly masks the breast. His female half is underlined by a heavy bun and bracelets. His hand holds the female utpala, water lily with long narrow petals. To his left, his wife and to his right the skeletal ascetic. This representation shows a Tamil legend. A devotee refused to include Uma in turn ritual. Uma, dissatisfied then went on skeletal devotee. Shiva then explained to her that her devout sakti was inseparable from himself. It then recognized the power of the goddess. (MA Loth, 2003, 2006).
http://www.temples-dravidiens.net/ch...androgyne.html

----------


## ftil

Let's look at Zeus again. He transformed himself into a bull to rape Europa as well as into a swan to seduce Leda. But there is more.  :Biggrin:  I have noticed in mythology many abductions of women. Mythology or religion shape our view of reality and how we view women and men. Furthermore, mythology and religion provides guidance what behaviors are acceptable or not, giving us a moral code. 
If gods can do it...........  :Biggrinjester: 

Let's look at Danae. Zeus transformed into a golden shower to seduce Danae.

 

*Rembrandt, Danaë*






*Artemisa Gentileschi, Danae*







*Orazio Gentileschi, Danae*





*Danaë, Gustav Klimt*






*AJ Chantron, Danae*



Let's look at Ganymede.





> *Ganymede* is the young, beautiful boy that became one of Zeus' lovers. One source of the myth says that Zeus fell in love with Ganymede when he spotted him herding his flock on Mount Ida. Zeus then came down in the form of an eagle or sent an eagle to carry Ganymede to Mount Olympus where Ganymede became cupbearer to the gods. According to other accounts, Eos kidnapped Ganymede, to be her lover, at the same time she kidnapped Tithonus. Zeus then robbed Eos of Ganymede, in return granting Eos the wish that Tithonus be immortal. Unthinkingly, Eos forgot to ask that Tithonus remain youthful. Everyday, the faithful Eos watched over Tithonus, until one day she locked him in a room and left him to get old by himself.
> When Ganymede's father, King Tros of Troy or Laomedon, found out about Ganymede's disappearance, he grieved so hard that Zeus sent Hermes on his behalf to give Tros or Laomedon two storm footed horses. In other accounts, Zeus gave Tros a golden vine and two swift horses that could run over water. Hermes was also ordered to assure the bereaved father that Ganymede was and would be immortal. Later, Heracles asked for the two beautiful horses in exchange for destroying the sea monster sent by Poseidon to besiege the city of Troy. Tros agreed and Heracles became the owner of the bribe sent by Zeus to Tros.
> Upon hearing that Ganymede was to be cup bearer as well as Zeus' lover, the infinitely jealous Hera was outraged. Therefor Zeus set Ganymede's image among the stars as the constellation Aquarius, the water carrier. Aquarius was originally the Egyptian god over the Nile. The Egyptian god poured water not wine from a flagon.
> All of Zeus' scandalous liaisons have allegorical meanings. Some sources say that Zeus' affair with Ganymede was a (religious) justification for homosexuality within the Greek culture, yet others state that this is merely a reflection of Greek life at that time. Before the popularity of the Zeus and Ganymede myth spread, however, the only toleration for sodomy was an external form of goddess worship. Cybele's male devotees tried to achieve unity with her by castrating themselves and dressing like women.
> Apollodorus argued that this myth emphasized the victory of patriarchy over matriarchy. This showed that men did not need women to exist, therefor they did not need the attentions of women. The philosopher Plato used this myth to justify his sexual feelings towards male pupils.
> http://www.pantheon.org/articles/g/ganymede.html






> *GANYMEDES* was a handsome, young Trojan prince who was carried off to heaven by Zeus, or his eagle, to be the god's lover and cup-bearer of the gods. Ganymedes also received a place amongst the stars as theconstellation Aquarius, his ambrosial mixing cup became the Krater, and the eagle Aquila. Ganymedes was frequently represented as the god of homosexual love, and as such appears as a playmate of the love-gods Eros(Love) and Hymenaios (Marital Love).
> Ganymedes was depicted in Greek vase painting as a handsome boy. In the abduction scene his attributes were usually a rooster (a lover's gift), a hoop (a boy's toy), or a lyre. When portrayed as the cup-bearer of the gods he is shown pouring nectar from a jug. In sculpture and mosaic art, on the other hand, Ganymedes usually appears with shepherd's crock and a Phrygian cap.
> The boy's name was derived from the Greek words ganumai "gladdening" and mêdon ormedeôn, "prince" or "genitals." The name may have been formed to contain a deliberate double-meaning.
> http://www.theoi.com/Ouranios/Ganymedes.html
> 
> *Plato, Laws* 636c (Greek philosopher C4th B.C.) :
> "One certainly should not fail to observe that when male unites with female for procreation the pleasure experienced is held to be due to nature, but contrary to nature when male mates with male or female with female, and that those first guilty of such enormities were impelled by their slavery to pleasure. And we all accuse the Kretans of concocting the story about Ganymedes. Because it was the belief that they derived their laws from Zeus, they added on this story about Zeus in order that they might be following his example in enjoying this pleasure as well."
> *Plato, Phaedrus* 255:
> "The fountain of that stream [homosexual desire], which Zeus when he was in love with Ganymede named Himeros (Desire)."
> http://www.theoi.com/Ouranios/Ganymedes.html




*GANYMEDE & THE EAGLE*
Kato Paphos Archaeological Park, Kato Paphos, Cyprus
C3rd AD
*SUMMARY*
Zeus abducts Ganymedes to heaven, sweeping him up in the form of a giant eagle. The young Trojan prince holds a staff, and wears a Phrygian cap.





*GANYMEDE*
Musée du Louvre, Paris, France
ca 525-475 BC
Period: Archaic
*SUMMARY*
Zeus (not shown) pursues the boy Ganymedes, who is playings with a toy hoop and pet rooster (perhaps a gift from his male suitor).




*Peter Paul Rubens, The Obduction of Ganymede*





*Peter Paul Rubens, The Abduction of Ganymede-II
*






*Anton Domenico Gabbian, Rape of Ganymede*






*Ganymede, Rembrandt*




*Antonio Correggio, Ganymede*






*GANYMEDE & THE EAGLE*
Museo Pio-Clementino, Musei Vaticani, Vatican City
Imperial Roman

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## ftil

Lets continue how women are portrayed in mythology and art. We have seen The Judgment of Paris. 




> The character and nature of *the Charites* *(Three Graces)* are sufficiently expressed by the names they bear: they were conceived as the goddesses who gave festive joy and enhanced the enjoyments of life by refinement and gentleness. Gracefulness and beauty in social intercourse are therefore attributed to them. (Horat. Carm. iii. 21, 22; Pind. Ol. xiv. 7, &c.) They are mostly described as being in the service or attendance of other divinities, as real joy exists only in circles where the individual gives up his own self and makes it his main object to afford pleasure to others.
> 
> They were often represented as the companions of other gods, such as Hera, Hermes, Eros, Dionysus, Aphrodite, the Horae, and the Muses.
> 
> *DAUGHTERS OF ZEUS & EURYNOME*
> 
> Hesiod, Theogony 907 (Greek epic C8th or 7th B.C.) :
> "And Eurynome (Broad Pasture), the daughter of Okeanos (Oceanus), beautiful in form, bare him [Zeus] three fair-cheeked Kharites (Charites, Graces), Aglaia (Aglaea, Glory, Beauty), and Euphrosyne (Merriment), and lovely Thaleia (Thalia, Festivity), from whose eyes as they glanced flowed love that unnerves the limbs: and beautiful is their glance beneath their brows."
> *DAUGHTERS OF DIONYSUS*
> ...




*The Three Graces, Raphael*








*Hans von Aachen, The Three Graces
*







*Franceschini (attr) Apollo and the Graces*







*Jacques-Louis David, Mars Disarmed By Venus And The Three Graces*








*Sandro Botticelli, Primavera*









*The Three Graces, Edward Coley Burne-Jones* 










*The Three Graces, Michael Parkes*

----------


## ftil

> In Greek mythology, *Helen of Troy*, also known as Helen of Sparta, was the daughter of Zeus and Leda (or Nemesis), daughter of King Tyndareus, wife of Menelaus and sister of Castor, Polydeuces and Clytemnestra. Her abduction by Paris brought about the Trojan War.
> In most sources, including the Iliad and the Odyssey, Helen is the daughter of Zeus and Leda, the wife of the Spartan king Tyndareus. Euripides' play Helen, written in the late 5th century BC, is the earliest source to report the most familiar account of Helen's birth: that, although her putative father was Tyndareus, she was actually Zeus' daughter. In the form of a swan, the king of gods was chased by an eagle, and sought refuge with Leda. The swan gained her affection, and the two mated. Leda then produced an egg, from which Helen emerged. The First Vatican Mythographer introduces the notion that two eggs came from the union: one containing Castor and Pollux; one with Helen and Clytemnestra. Nevertheless, the same author earlier states that Helen, Castor and Pollux were produced from a single egg. Pseudo-Apollodorus states that Leda had intercourse with both Zeus and Tyndareus the night she conceived Helen.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_of_Troy




*Helen and Paris, Louvre*





*Leda and the Swan, copy by Cesare Sesto after a lost original by Leonardo.* 








*Tintoretto, Rape of Helen*









*Francesco Primaticcio, Rape of Helena*








*Helen of Troy, Evelyn de Morgan*









*Helen of Troy, Dante Gabriel Rossetti* 









*Helen of Troy, Frederic Leighton*









*Gustave Moreau, Helen on the Ramparts of Troy*








*Helen, Franz von Stuck*








*The Love of Helen and Paris, Jacques-Louis David*







*The Abduction of Helen by Paris, Giovanni Francesco Susini*

----------


## ftil

*Rape of Lucretia*




> Roman woman whose rape by Sextus Tarquinius, the son of the last Roman king Lucius Tarquinius Superbus (R: 535-510 B.C.), and her subsequent suicide, caused an uprising led by her husband and by her kinsman Lucius Junius Brutus, which ultimately resulted in the fall of the kingdom of Rome and the establishment of the Republic. Lucretia's rape and suicide were a prominent theme in the arts, particularly from the 16th century onwards.
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Lucretia





*Titian, Tarquinius and Lucretia*





*Simon Vouet, Lucretia And Tarquinius*







*Luca Giordano, The Rape of Lucretia*








*



*



*Titian, Suicide of Lucretia*







*Rembrandt, Lucretia*








*Lucretia, Paolo Veronese*







*Artemisia Gentileschi, Lucretia*







*Sodoma, Death of Lucretia*

----------


## ftil

Let's look at Susanna and the Elderly. 




> Susanna or Shoshana included in the Book of Daniel (as chapter 13) by the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. 
> 
> As the story goes, a fair Hebrew wife named Susanna is falsely accused by lecherous voyeurs. As she bathes in her garden, having sent her attendants away, two lustful elders secretly observe the lovely Susanna. When she makes her way back to her house, they accost her, threatening to claim that she was meeting a young man in the garden unless she agrees to have sex with them.
> 
> She refuses to be blackmailed and is arrested and about to be put to death for promiscuity when a young man named Daniel interrupts the proceedings, shouting that the elders should be questioned to prevent the death of an innocent. After being separated, the two men are questioned about details of what they saw but disagree about the tree under which Susanna supposedly met her lover.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susanna_(Book_of_Daniel)







*Giovanni Battista Tiepolo*









*Peter Paul Rubens, Susanna and the Elders*








*Susanna and the Old Men, Guercino.*









*Paolo Veronese*









*Tintoretto, Susanna and the Elders.*








*Ricci Sebastiano, Susanna and the Two Elderly*







*Guido Reni, Susanna and the Elders.*







*Guido Cagnacci*









*Domenico Guarino*







*Artemisia Gentileschi*









*Anthony van Dyck*








*Van Honthorst, Gerard*








*Pieter Lastman* 







*Andrea Malinconico*








*Jacopo Bassano*








*Théodore Chassériau*









*Franz von Stuck*









*Franciszek Żmurko*

There are more painters who were fascinated with ..... Susanna or elderly :Biggrin:

----------


## ftil

> *ANUBIS*
> 
> Other Names: Anpu, Inpu, Ienpw, Imeut (Lord-of-the-Place-of-Embalming).
> 
> Patron of: mummification, and the dead on their path through the underworld.
> 
> Appearance: A man with the head of a jackal-like animal. Unlike a real jackal, Anubis' head is black, representing his position as a god of the dead. He is rarely shown fully-human, but he is depicted so in the Temple of Abydos of Rameses II. There is a beautiful statue of him as a full jackal in the tomb of Tutankhamun.
> 
> Description: Anubis is an incredibly ancient god, and was the original god of the dead before Osiris "took over" the position. After that point, Anubis was changed to be one of the many sons of Osiris and the psychopomp (conductor of souls) of the underworld. His totem of the jackal is probably due to the fact that jackals would hunt at the edges of the desert, near the necropolis and cemeteries throughout Egypt.
> ...






*The Egyptian god Anubis* 






> The big statue, 26 tons of jackal-headed deity, will spend the winter in Landmark Plaza, next to Landmark Center and Rice Park. The statue also was displayed before the exhibit's opening in Atlanta, New York City, London, Toronto and Vienna.
> http://www.minnpost.com/politicalage...ian_god_anubis








Anubis Statue Installed at Denver International Airport
2010 06 03







> *Hermanubis*
> 
> A combination of the Greek god Hermes and Anubis. As their functions as psychopomps were similar, they were combined by the Greeks into a single form. Hermanubis also appears in alchemical and hermetical literature of the Middle Ages and the Renaissance.
> 
> http://www.touregypt.net/godsofegypt/anubis.htm





*Statue of Hermanubis, Vatican Museums* 










*Hermes/Mercury*







*"Medicine", sculpture by Alonzo Victor Lewis, 1922. North face of Miller Hall, University of Washington, Seattle, Washington, USA.*







*Baphomet*









*Caduceus in Heraldy*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ca...us_in_heraldry







*The Sumerian deity, Ningizzida, is accompanied by two gryphons; it is the oldest known image of two snakes coiling around an axial rod, dating from before 2000 BCE.*










*Gorgon*







*Caduceus Statue of Quetzalcoatl with entwined snakes around a rod*






*Bourdon, Sébastien - Moses and the Brazen Serpent*














*The Bishop of Londons crosier*

----------


## ftil

> *Dionysus*(Bacchus) was the god of the grape harvest, winemaking and wine, of ritual madness and ecstasy in Greek mythology.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysus






> DIONYSUS, the youthful, beautiful, but effeminate god of wine. His attributes included the thyrsos (a pine-cone tipped staff), drinking cup, leopard and fruiting vine. He was usually accompanied by a troop of Satyrs and maenads (female devotees or nymphs).
> 
> According to the common tradition, Dionysus was the son of Zeus and Semele, the daughter of Cadmus of Thebes (Hom. Hymn. vi. 56; Eurip. Bacch. init.; Apollod. iii. 4. § 3); whereas others describe him as a son of Zeus by Demeter, Io, Dione, or Arge. (Diod. iii. 62, 74; Schol.ad Pind. Pyth. iii. 177; Plut. de Flum. 16.)
> 
> Several ancient poets and writers attempted to arrange the mythology of Dionysus into a tidy chronological narrative. However, these were artificial constructs--the stories were, for the most part, a loose collection of highly localized, unrelated cult myths.
> The mythographer Apollodorus provides us with the neatest of these narratives.
> 
> *I. THE BIRTH OF DIONYSUS*
> 
> ...





*Gustave Moreau, Jupiter and Semele*





*THE BIRTH OF DIONYSUS*

Museo Nazionale Archeologico di Taranto, Taranto, Italy 
Date: ca 405 - 385 BC
Period: Late Classical

*SUMMARY*

Detail of the central figures from a painting depicting the birth of Dionysos. The new born god emerges from the thigh of Zeus. He is depicted wearing a wreath of vine-leaves, and stretches out his arms, either to ward of or embrace the goddess about to grab him. Zeus reclines on a hill, holding his royal sceptre in hand. 






*THE BIRTH OF DIONYSUS*

Museum of Fine Arts, Boston, Massachusetts, USA 
Date: ca 470 - 460 BC
Period: Early Classical

*SUMMARY*

Zeus, seated on a rock, gives birth to the god Dionysus from his thigh. Hermes stands by holding the royal sceptre of his father in one hand, and in his other, his own herald's wand. He is also shown with winged boots and petasos (traveller's cap).







> *II. NURSED BY INO & THE Nymphs of Mount*
> *Pseudo-Apollodorus, Bibliotheca 3. 29 - 30* :
> "Zeus loosened the stitches and gave birth to Dionysus, whom he entrusted to Hermes. Hermes took him to Ino and Athamas, and persuaded them to bring him up as a girl. Incensed, Hera inflicted madness on them. As for Zeus, he escaped Hera's anger by changing Dionysus into a baby goat. Hermes took him to the Nymph of Asian Nysa, whom Zeus in later times places among the stars and named the Hyades."
> http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/DionysosMyths.html






*SILENUS NURSING DIONYSUS*

Museo Archeologico Nazionale di Napoli, Naples, Italy 
Period: Imperial Roman

*SUMMARY*

The old god Silenus plays with the infant Dionysus. Beside him sits a Nysias Nymph holding a bunch of grapes out for the child. The goat-legged Pan, and Hermes with winged cap, sandals and lyre, sit to one side.







*HERMES "OF OLYMPIA "*

Museum Collection: Archaeological Museum, Olympia, Greece 
Date: C4th BC 
Period: Classical

SUMMARY

Hermes holds the infant god Dionysus in his draped arm.






*SILENUS & INFANT DIONYSOS*

Museum Collection: State Hermitage Museum, St Petersburg, Russia 
Date: C1st - C2nd AD 
Period: Imperial Roman

*SUMMARY*

Silenus nurses the infant god Dionysos in his arms. He is crowned with a wreath of berries.





*INFANT DIONYSUS RIDING TIGER*

Museum Collection: El Djem (in situ), Tunisia 
Period: Imperial Roman

SUMMARY

The infant Dionysus, wearing a leopard-skin cloak and holding a thyrsos staff, rides on the back of a tiger.






*Bacchus, Caravaggio*






*Drinking Bacchus, Guido Reni*

----------


## ftil

Let's continue with Dionysus.





> The earliest images of the god were mere Hermae with the phallus (Paus. ix. 12. § 3), or his head only was represented. (Eustath. ad Hom. p. 1964.) In later works of art he appears in four different forms:
> 
> 1. As an infant handed over by Hermes to his nurses, or fondled and played with by satyrs and Bacchante.
> 
> 2. As a manly god with a beard, commonly called the Indian Bacchus. He there appears in the character of a wise and dignified oriental monarch; his features are expressive of sublime tranquility and mildness; his beard is long and soft, and his Lydian robes (bassara) are long and richly folded. His hair sometimes floats down in locks, and is sometimes neatly wound around the head, and a diadem often adorns his forehead.
> http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Dionysos.html







*DIONYSUS & HIS RETINUE*

Museum Collection: Harvard University Art Museums, Cambridge, 
Date: ca 440 - 430 BC
Period: Classical

*SUMMARY*

Dionysos stands attended by a Satyros and Mainas. The god is bearded, and crowned with a wreath of ivy. He holds a drinking cup in one hand and a double-thyrsos (pine-cone tipped staff) in the other. The Mainas beats a tambourine and the Satyros plays a flute.







*DIONYSUS & SATYR*

Museum Collection: Antikenmuseen, Berlin, Germany 
Date: ca 490 - 480 BC
Period: Late Archaic

*SUMMARY*

Tondo: Dionysos crowned with a wreath of ivy, and holding a fruiting grape vine in one hand, and thyrsos (pine-cone tipped staff) in the other. He is accompanied by a flute-playing Satyros.







*José de Ribera, Dionysus*







> 3. The youthful or so-called Theban Bacchus, was carried to ideal beauty by Praxiteles. The form of his body is manly and with strong outlines, but still approaches to the female form by its softness and roundness. The expression of the countenance is languid, and shows a kind of dreamy longing; the head, with a diadem, or a wreath of vine or ivy, leans somewhat on one side; his attitude is never sublime, but easy, like that of a man who is absorbed in sweet thoughts, or slightly intoxicated. He is often seen leaning on his companions, or riding on a panther, ***, tiger, or lion. The finest statue of this kind is in the villa Ludovisi.
> 
> 
> *Euripides, Bacchae* 90 ff (trans. Buckley) (Greek tragedy C5th B.C.) :
> "[Dionysus] the bull-horned god, and he [Zeus] crowned him with crowns of snakes."
> 
> *Ovid, Metamorphoses* *3*. 664 ff :
> "[The Tyrrhenian pirates] discovered on this lonely spot, a boy [Dionysus], as pretty as a girl. He seemed to reel, half-dazed with wine and sleep, and almost failed to follow along. I gazed at his attire, his face, his bearing; everything I saw seemed more than mortal. I felt sure of it . . . 
> 
> ...






*DIONYSUS*

Museum Collection: Harvard University Art Museums, Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA 
Date: ca 410 - 400 BC
Period: Classical

*SUMMARY*

Detail of Dionysos from a painting depicting the god and his retinue. He is shown here as a pretty youth with long wavy hair. He holds his thyrsos (pine-cone tipped staff) in one hand, and beside him llies a baby panther.






*DIONYSUS RIDING PANTHER*

Museum Collection: Pella Archaeological Museum, Pella, Macedonia, Greece
Date: ca 400 - 360 BC
Period: Hellenistic Greek

*SUMMARY*

The youthful god Dionysos rides side-saddle on the back of a panther with a ribboned thyrsos (pine-cone tipped staff) in his hand. He is crowned with a wreath of ivy or vine-leaves.






*DIONYSUS & CHARIOT OF CENTAURS*

Museum Collection: Bardo Museum, Tunis, Tunisia 
Period: Late Roman

*SUMMARY*

The god Dionysos, with wine cup and thyrsos rod, rides in a chariot drawn by two Centaurs






*DIONYSUS & SATYR*

Museum Collection: Antakya Museum, Antakya, Turkey 
Date: C4th AD
Period: Imperial Roman

*SUMMARY*

The drunken god Dionysos walks supported by a Satyros. He spills his cup of wine, which is lapped up by a panther cub. The god has long hair and is crowned with a wreath of ivy. The Satyr is named Skyrtos in a similar mosaic.






*DIONYSUS & PAN*

Museum Collection: Shahba Museum, Shahba, Syria
Date: C4th AD 
Period: Imperial Roman

*SUMMARY*

Dionysos stands haloed and holding a drining cup and thyrsos rod beside the goat-legged god Pan.







*Bacchus, Michelangelo*







*2nd century Roman statue of Dionysus.*







*Midas and Bacchus, Nicolas Poussin*





> 4. Bacchus with horns, either those of a ram or of a bull. This representation occurs chiefly on coins, but never in statues.
> http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Dionysos.html



But I haven't found yet coins that depict him with horns. 




Gold phaler (ornament worn by horses), one of a pair, representing Dionysus. Syria, 3rd century BC.






Head of bearded Dionysus crowned with ivy.
Date: ca. between 461 and 450 BC






Thrace, Maroneia. Circa 189/8-49/5 BC.
AR Tetradrachm (16.57 g, 1h).
Wreathed head of young Dionysos right.

----------


## ftil

Let's continue with Dionysus.





> *DRIVEN MAD BY HERA, WANDERS EGYPT & SYRIA*
> 
> *Pseudo-Apollodorus, Bibliotheca 3. 32* :
> "After Hera inflicted madness upon him, he wandered over Aigyptos (Egypt) and Syria. The Aigyptian king Proteus first welcomed him."
> 
> This story was probably invented to explain his connection between Dionysus, the Egyptian Osiris and the Phoenician god of wine.
> 
> *TAUGHT THE ORGIES BY RHEA-KYBELE IN PHRYGIA*
> 
> ...





> Dionysus and the host of Pans, Satyrs, and Bacchic women, by whom he was accompanied, conquered his enemies, taught the Indians the cultivation of the vine and of various fruits, and the worship of the gods; he also founded towns among them, gave them laws, and left behind him pillars and monuments in the happy land which he had thus conquered and civilized, and the inhabitants worshipped him as a god. (Comp. Strab. xi. p. 505; Arrian, Ind. 5; Diod. ii. 38; Philostr. Vit. Apollon. ii. 9; Virg. Aen. vi. 805.)
> http://www.mythindex.com/greek-mytho.../Dionysus.html





*DIONYSUS & THE INDIANS*

Museo Nazionale Romano, Rome, Italy

Period: Imperial Roman

*SUMMARY*

Dionysos accomanied by a Mainas Nymphe and the old god Seilenos, battles an Indian warrior.





> *GOD OF DRUNKENNESS*
> 
> *Hesiod, Catalogues of Women Fragment 87* (from Athenaeus 10. 428) (trans. Evelyn-White) (Greek epic C8th or 7th B.C.) :
> "Such gifts as Dionysus gave to men, a joy and a sorrow both. Who ever drinks to fullness, in him wine becomes violent and binds together his hands and feet, his tongue also and his wits with fetters unspeakable: and soft sleep embraces him."
> 
> *Athenaeus, Deipnosophistae 2. 38e :*
> "From the condition produced by wine they liken Dionysos to a bull of panther, because they who have indulged too freely are prone to violence . . . There are some drinkers who become full of rage like a bull . . . Some, also, become like wild beasts in their desire to fight, whence the likeness to a panther."
> 
> *Plato, Laws 665b :*
> ...






*Marcantonio Raimondi, Bacchic scene (a drunk Dionysos leans over a satyr)*




> *GOD OF MADNESS, PHANTOMS & HALLUCINATION*
> 
> *Ovid, Metamorphoses 3. 572* ff (trans. Melville) (Roman epic C1st B.C. to C1st A.D.) :
> "Bacchus [Dionysus] himself, grape-bunches garlanding his brow, brandished a spear that vine-leaves twined, and at his feet fierce spotted panthers lay, tigers and lynxes too, in phantom forms."
> 
> *GOD OF CROSS-DRESSING & EFFEMINACY*
> 
> *Euripides, Bacchae 350 ff* (trans. Buckley) (Greek tragedy C5th B.C.) :
> "[Pentheus:] This effeminate stranger [Dionysus]."
> ...






*Giovanni Francesco Romanelli, Dionysus*





*Dionysus, Archaeological Museum, Athens - Photo by Giovanni Dall'Orto*





*Dionysus (detail) Archaeological Museum, Athens - Photo by Giovanni Dall'Orto*





*Sebastiano Ricci, Bacchus und Ariadne*







*Louis Le Nain, Dionysus and Ariadne*




> *GOD OF REINCARNATION & THE AFTERLIFE*
> 
> *Herodotus, Histories 2. 123* (trans. Godley) (Greek historian C5th B.C.) :
> "The Egyptians say that Demeter [Isis] and Dionysus [Osiris] are the rulers of the lower world. The Egyptians were the first who maintained the following doctrine, too, that the human soul is immortal, and at the death of the body enters into some other living thing then coming to birth; and after passing through all creatures of land, sea, and air, it enters once more into a human body at birth, a cycle which it completes in three thousand years. There are Greeks who have used this doctrine [the Orphics], some earlier and some later, as if it were their own; I know their names, but do not record them."
> http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Dionysos.html





> In the earliest times the Graces, or Charites, were the companions of Dionysus (Pind.Ol. xiii. 20; Plut. Quaest. Gr. 36; Apollon. Rhod. iv. 424), and at Olympia he and the Charites had an altar in common. (Schol. ad Pind. Ol. v. 10 ; Paus. v. 14 in fin.) This circumstance is of great interest, and points out the great change which took place in the course of time in the mode of his worship, for afterwards we find him accompanied in his expeditions and travels by Bacchantic women. called Lenae, Maenad, Thyiades, Mimallones, Clodones, Bassarae or Bassarides, all of whom are represented in works of art as raging with madness or enthusiasm, in vehement motions, their heads thrown backwards, with disheveled hair, and carrying in their hands thyrsus-staffs (entwined with ivy, and headed with pine-cones), cymbals, swords, or serpents. Sileni, Pans, satyrs, centaurs, and other beings of a like kind, are also the constant companions of the god. (Strab. x. p. 468; Diod. iv. 4. &c.; Catull. 64. 258 ; Athen i. p. 33; Paus. i. 2. § 7.)
> http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Dionysos.html





*Roman relief showing a dancing maenad holding a thyrsus.*
Date between 120 and 140 AD






*Jean-Simon Berthélemy, Bacchante Playing The Cymbals* 









*Etty William, Bacchante Playing the Tambourine*








*Victor Meirelles, Bacchante*









*Giorgio Sommer & Edmond Behles, A Maenad*








*Bernhard Rode, Bacchante*









*Annibale Carracci, Bacchante*

----------


## ftil

*DIONYSUS IDENTIFIED WITH FOREIGN GODS*

Dionysus was identified with the Thraco-Phrygian god Sabazios, Egyptian Osiris, Phoenician Tammuz and the Roman god Liber, amongst others.




> Sabazios is the nomadic horseman and sky father god of the Phrygians and Thracians. In Indo-European languages, such as Phrygian, the -zios element in his name derives from dyeus, the common precursor of Latin deus ('god') and Greek Zeus. Though the Greeks interpreted Phrygian Sabazios with both Zeus and Dionysus, representations of him, even into Roman times, show him always on horseback, as a nomadic horseman god, wielding his characteristic staff of power.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabazios





> *SABAZIOS (THRACO-PHRYGIAN GOD)*
> 
> *Herodotus, Histories 5. 7* (trans. Godley) (Greek historian C5th B.C.) :
> "They [the Thrakians] worship no gods but Ares, Dionysus [Sabazios], and Artemis [Bendis]. Their princes, however, unlike the rest of their countrymen, worship Hermes [Zalmoxis] above all gods and swear only by him, claiming him for their ancestor."
> 
> *Cicero, De Natura Deorum 3. 21- 23* (trans. Rackham) (Roman rhetorician C1st B.C.) :
> "The [god identified with Dionysus] father of the third [Phrygian Sabazios] is Cabirus; it is stated that he was king over Asia, and the Sabazia were instituted in his honor. The fourth [the Thraco-Orphic god Sabazios] is the son of Jupiter [Thrakian sky-god] and Luna [Bendis]; the Orphic rites are believed to be celebrated in his honor."
> http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Dionysos.html







> *Thracian/Phrygian Sabazios*
> 
> It seems likely that the migrating Phrygians brought Sabazios with them when they settled in Anatolia (ca. 1200 BC?) and that the god's origins are to be looked for in Macedonia and western Thrace. The Macedonians were noted horseman, horse-breeders and horse-worshippers into the time of Philip II.
> 
> *Transformation to Sabazios*
> 
> The naturally syncretic approach of Greek religion blurred distinctions. Later Greek writers, like Strabo, 1st century AD, linked Sabazios with Zagreos, among Phrygian ministers and attendants of the sacred rites of Rhea and Dionysus. (Strabo, 10.3.15). Strabo's Sicilian contemporary, Diodorus Siculus, conflates Sabazios with the secret 'second' Dionysus, born of Zeus and Persephone (Diodorus Siculus, 4.4.1). The Clement of Alexandria had been informed that the secret mysteries of Sabazios, as practiced among the Romans, involved a serpent, a chthonic creature unconnected with the mounted skygod of Phrygia: "God in the bosom is a countersign of the mysteries of Sabazios to the adepts, " Clement reports (Protrepticus, 1, 2, 16). "This is a snake, passed through the bosom of the initiates.
> 
> Much later, the Greek encyclopedia, Sudas (10th century?), flatly states "Sabazios... is the same as Dionysus. He acquired this form of address from the rite pertaining to him; for the barbarians call the bacchic cry 'sabazein'. Hence some of the Greeks too follow suit and call the cry 'sabasmos'; thereby Dionysus [becomes] Sabazios. They also used to call 'saboi' those places that had been dedicated to him and his Bacchantes
> http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Mythology/Sabazios.html







> *Sabazios*
> 
> The god was represented on a horseback battling the chthonic serpent or he was often sitting on a throne holding his staff of power.
> His appearance was a majestic one, another time a soft and an effeminate one because a part of his myth and cult was his self-castration, including the god´s annual death and revival. Sabazios was often surrounded by the goddess Cybele or (especially in Greek iconography) by Demeter and Persephone. His cult (similarly, like the one of Cybele or Dionysus) was also accompanied by some musicians and ecstatic dancers who were keeping the small snakes with heads raised up. Sometimes we can even observe a snake twisting near the god´s throne. The chthonic animals (including a horned snake, a frog, a tortoise, a lizard), as well as the triple Hecate, the bust of Mercury and the caduceus, the symbols of the sun and the moon, the zodiac symbols, and even a head of a ram on an altar, as a pine cone and some Greek inscriptions, appeared around the god on some representations. These attributes often decorated the reliefs and small votive hands which are associated with the cult of Sabazios in the Roman sites. 
> http://www.anistor.gr/english/enback...nistoriton.pdf






Bronze hand used in the worship of Sabazios (British Museum). Roman 1st-2nd century CE. Hands decorated with religious symbols were designed to stand in sanctuaries or, like this one, were attached to poles for processional use.





> Early conflict between Sabazios and his followers and the indigenous Mother Goddess of Phrygia (Cybele) is reflected in Homer's brief reference to the youthful feats of Priam, who aided the Phrygians in their battles with Amazons.
> http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Mythology/Sabazios.html







> *Thracian horseman* is the conventional term for a recurring motif from the iconography of Paleo-Balkanic mythology during the Roman era.
> The tradition is attested from Thrace to Moesia and Scythia Minor, also known as the "Thracian Heros", at Odessos (Varna) attested by a Thracian name as Heros Karabazmos, a god of the underworld usually depicted on funeral statues as a horseman slaying a beast with a spear.
> 
> Sabazios, the Thracian reflex of Indo-European Dyeus, identified with Heros Karabazmos, the "Thracian horseman". He gained a widespread importance especially after the Roman conquest. After Christianity was adopted, the symbolism of Heros continued as representations of Saint George slaying the dragon (compare Uastyrdzhi/Tetri Giorgi in the Caucasus).
> 
> http://www.answers.com/topic/thracian-horseman





> Heros /hero/  a Thracian god of hunting, fertility, life and death, all-knowing and all-hearing god  all-god.
> The cult of the Thracian horseman was widely spread during the Roman Age, which indicates a renaissance of the Thracian religion at that time  something unknown for the other peoples under Roman domination. Its figure is well known thanks to the numerous historical records from the Roman Age, 1st-4th century AD  young horseman with a spear and shield or with killed game in his hands, followed by a servant, dog and a lion. As an all-knowing and all-hearing god he was portrayed with two or three faces. Due to the mixture of various religions the Thracian horseman was often depicted as a Greek god  Apollo, Asclepius, Zeus, Dionysus, etc., and as the Old Iranian god Mithra, as well as with some of their attributes  lyre (Apollo), single snake staff (Asclepius), impressive beard (Zeus), Phrygian cap (conical cap with its top pulled forward  Mithra), etc. The image of the Thracian horseman served as a base for Christian Saint George.
> http://ancient-treasure.info/ancient...-horseman.html





*"Thracian horseman" relief with Latin inscription at Philippi.*








*A "Thracian rider" relied from the collection of the Burgas Archaeological Museum. 2nd century AD*




*Romanian National History Museum Thracian horseman*






*Thracian horseman in National Historical Museum Bulgaria* 






*Raffaello Sanzio, Saint George and the Dragon*







*Saint George, Gustave Moreau.*








*Vitale da Bologna, St. George 's Battle with the Dragon*




*Paolo Uccello*




*Paolo Uccello* 








*Hans von Aachen "St. George slaying the dragon"*








*St. George and the Dragon, Edward Burne-Jones*







*Saint George and the Dragon at Casa Amatller*







* St. George in the New Church St. Margaret, Munich-Sendling, early 16th century.*







*Liberty Monument (St George slaying the dragon) in Tbilisi*

----------


## YesNo

> [B]
> 
> 
> 
> *Raffaello Sanzio, Saint George and the Dragon*


I enjoyed all the knight-maiden-dragon images especially the one by Raffaello Sanzio. The trees seem so peaceful and orderly.

For some reason my idea of how dragons should look have them a bit larger than they are pictured in these images. I guess I am used to people riding them in the movies.

----------


## ftil

> For some reason my idea of how dragons should look have them a bit larger than they are pictured in these images. I guess I am used to people riding them in the movies.


Perhaps, the inspiration comes from mythology.  :Wink5: 







> *Zahhāk or Zohhāk* an evil figure in Iranian mythology, evident in ancient Iranian folklore as Ai Dahāka, the name by which he also appears in the texts of the Avesta. In Middle Persian he is called Dahāg or Bēvar-Asp, the latter meaning "[he who has] 10,000 horses".
> Ai is the Avestan word for "serpent" or "dragon." It is cognate to the Vedic Sanskrit word ahi, "snake," and without a sinister implication. Azi and Ahi are distantly related to Greek ophis, Latin anguis, Russian and Old Bulgarian уж (grass-snake), all meaning "snake".
> Ai Dahāka is the most significant and long-lasting of the ais of the Avesta, the earliest religious texts of Zoroastrianism. He is described as a monster with three mouths, six eyes, and three heads (presumably meaning three heads with one mouth and two eyes each), cunning, strong and demonic. But in other respects Ai Dahāka has human qualities, and is never a mere animal.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zahhak







*THE FLIGHT OF MEDEA*

Museum Collection: Cleveland Museum of Art, Cleveland, Ohio, USA 
Date: ca 400 BC
Period: Late Classical

*SUMMARY*

Medea flees Korinthos in a flying chariot drawn by a pair of serpent Drakones and encircled by the aureole of the sun. Her children lie dead, slain on the altar, to be discovered by their father Jason (left). A pair of winged Poinai (Retributions personified) oversee the entire scene.









*THE FLIGHT OF MEDEA*

Museum Collection: Heraclea Museum, Naples, Italy 
Period: Late Classical

*SUMMARY*

Detail of Medea fleeing from Korinthos in a flying, serpent-drawn chariot. Jason (not shown) grieves for his murdered children.





*THE FLIGHT OF MEDEA*

Museum Collection: Antikensammlungen, Munich, Germany 
Date: ca 330 - 310 BC
Period: Late Classical / Early Hellenistic

*SUMMARY*

Medea avenges herself on Jason by slaying her own children upon the altar, and destroying Kreon and Glauke by fire in the palace (not shown). Triptolemos arrives on the scene with a flying, serpent-drawn chariot to assist Medea in her escape.

----------


## YesNo

So they did ride dragons in the good old days. I thought this was something the movies came up with. I wonder if dragons originated in Zoroastrianism.

----------


## stlukesguild

Dragons vary across art history... and certainly they vary between cultures. Japanese and Chinese dragons tend to appear far more formidable. They tend to be snake-like with long, twisting bodies and small arms and legs, and they can be found in the clouds, in the mountains, in the ocean, etc...









The European dragon tends to be smaller. It should be remembered that the European artists concept of animals did not include lions or elephants. Perhaps the largest beast of prey they would have been familiar with would have been the Wolf and the Bear... and even then, the larger bear, such as the Grizzly and the Brown Bear would not have been known to most of Europe. Many of the image prior to the late Renaissance or even the Baroque (1600s) suggest little knowledge even of a creature such as the lion:



It should also be recognized that the dragon, in many cases, simply represented Satan. St. George's defeat of the dragon was interpreted as St. George/Christianity defeating Satan and paganism. It has even been interpreted as the British defeat of the pagan Irish/Celts. The dragon, after all, was quite a common creature in pre-Christian literature and remained a common motif in Celtic/Anglo/Scandinavian art... his snake-like body often hidden... woven through the ornate twisting, decorative details of illuminated manuscripts...





even abstracted into pure interwoven knots:



and also found in architectural details:





As the dragon represented Satan, scale was irrelevant to the danger of this beast:



He might certainly take a larger size if he so wished... as he does in a number of images of the dragon as the Anti-Christ... or the Beast (Θηρίον) from the Book of Revelations:





William Blake makes the link between the dragon/the beast/Satan more obvious:





A good many medieval paintings and sculpture present a sizable image of the dragon/Satan devouring an entire slew of sinners:











I'm especially fond of these medieval representations of the Dragon... but perhaps my favorite painting of a dragon has to be that by the Italian Mannerist, Giovanni Antonio Bazzi, known as Il Sodoma:



Il Sodoma's St. George and the Dragon is an absurdly and deliciously over-the-top representation of the St. George narrative worthy of a ridiculously funny comic opera. St. George charges the pathetically puny dragon that is as twisted upon itself as any Celtic knot with his candy-cane lance that's hardly big enough for the dragon to use as a toothpick to clean his teeth of the remains of his horrific dinner (the remains of which... heads and arms... lie strewn around). George's buck-toothed steed appears far more dangerous than the dragon or George's lance. Standing to the side of the action, the poor "damsel in distress" warbles deliciously as any good comic operatic diva should. The painting is pure, unadulterated camp. Every time I see it I cannot help but think of the scene of the killer rabbit from Montey Python's Holy Grail.

Il Sodoma was a master of camp. Reputedly so open with regard to his homosexual behavior that it earned him his pseudonym, the artist is also well-known for his equally campy St. Sebastian which essentially established the motif as a Sado-Masochistic, Homo-erotic icon:



Sebastian's tear-filled big eyes looking to the heavens above is worthy of a slew of Victorian paintings of tearful pre-pubescent female saints and Madonnas.

----------


## ftil

> *DIONYSUS IDENTIFIED WITH FOREIGN GODS*
> 
> Dionysus was identified with the Thraco-Phrygian god Sabazios, Egyptian Osiris, Phoenician Tammuz and the Roman god Liber, amongst others.
> 
> 
> Sabazios is the nomadic horseman and sky father god of the Phrygians and Thracians. In Indo-European languages, such as Phrygian, the -zios element in his name derives from dyeus, the common precursor of Latin deus ('god') and Greek Zeus. Though the Greeks interpreted Phrygian Sabazios with both Zeus and Dionysus, representations of him, even into Roman times, show him always on horseback, as a nomadic horseman god, wielding his characteristic staff of power.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabazios
> 
> *SABAZIOS (THRACO-PHRYGIAN GOD)*
> ...





Lets go back to Dionysus, Sabazios and his mother Cybele. There is much more about Dionysus. 

From post # 101



> *TAUGHT THE ORGIES BY RHEA-KYBELE IN PHRYGIA*
> 
> *Pseudo-Apollodorus, Bibliotheca 3. 33 :*
> "He [the young god Dionysus] went to Cybela in Phrygia. There he was purified by Rhea (Cybela) and taught the mystic rites of initiation, after which he received from her his gear and set out eagerly through Thrake [where he introduced the orgiastic cult]."
> http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Dionysos.html







> The Phrygian goddess *Cybele was the mother of Sabazios* (the Phrygian equivalent of Dionysus). The Greeks adapted this tradition by describing Mother Rhea as the nurse and mentor of Dionysus. The Orgia (Orgiastic Cult) of Dionysus-Sabazios was derived from that of the Phrygian Meter Theon.
> CYBELE was the great Phrygian mother of the gods, a goddess of fertility, motherhood and the mountain wilds. Her orgiastic cult dominated the central and north-western districts of Asia Minor, and was introduced into Greece via the island of Samothrake and the Boiotian town of Thebes.
> Cybele was closely associated with a number of Greek goddesses, firstly Rhea, the Greek mother of the gods (Meter Theon), but sometimes also Demeter (especially in the Samothrakian cult), Aphrodite (on Mt Ida) and Artemis (in Karia).
> Cybele was portrayed in classical sculpture as a matronly woman with a turret-crown, enthroned and flanked by lions.
> The Orgia (Orgiastic festivals) of the Meter Theon were introduced into Greece from Phrygia via the island of Samothrake. They were closely related to those of Dionysus, whose Phrygian form, Sabazios, was named as a son of the goddess.
> http://www.theoi.com/Cult/KybeleCult.html




*RHEA-CYBELE* 


*SUMMARY*

Rhea-Kybele, the mother of the gods, with turret crown, enthroned and flanked by lions.






*RHEA-CYBELE*

Museum Collection: The J. Paul Getty Museum, Malibu, California, USA 
Date: ca 50 AD 
Period: Imperial Roman

*SUMMARY*

Rhea-Kybele, the mother of the gods, with turret crown, enthroned, holding a bouquet of wheat and poppy heads and flanked by a fruit-brimming cornucopia (horn of plenty), rudder and small lion. (NB Most of these attributes are similar to those of Demeter and Tykhe).






> The Thracians conceived the chief divinity of the Samothracian and Lemnian mysteries as Rhea-Hecate, while some of them who had settled in Asia Minor, became there acquainted with still stranger beings, and one especially who was worshipped with wild and enthusiastic solemnities, was found to resemble Rhea. In like manner the Greeks who afterwards settled in Asia identified the Asiatic goddess with Rhea, with whose worship they had long been familiar (Strab. x. p. 471; Hom. Hymn. 13, 31). In Phrygia, where Rhea became identified with Cybele, she is said to have purified Dionysus, and to have taught him the mysteries (Apollod. iii. 5. § 1), and thus a Dionysian element became amalgamated with the worship of Rhea. Demeter, moreover, the daughter of Rhea, is sometimes mentioned with all the attributes belonging to Rhea. (Eurip. Helen. 1304.) The confusion then became so great that the worship of the Cretan Rhea was confounded with that of the Phrygian mother of the gods, and that the orgies of Dionysus became interwoven with those of Cybele. Strangers from Asia, who must be looked upon as jugglers, introduced a variety of novel rites, which were fondly received, especially by the populace (Strab. 1. c.; Athen. xii. p. 553 ; Demosth. de Coron. p. 313). Both the name and the connection of Rhea with Demeter suggest that she was in early times revered as goddess of the earth . . .
> http://www.theoi.com/Phrygios/Kybele.html







> The Phrygian Orgia were overseen by eunuch priests called Gallai, who led devotees in nocturnal mountain rites involving much drinking, and frantic dancing accompanied by the music of rattles, kettledrums, flutes and castanets and the ritual cry 'evoe saboe,' 'hyes attes, attes hyes'. Young men armed with shield and sword also performed the high-footed, shield-clashing Korybantic dance (which Greek legend described as the dance of the Kourete-protectors of the infant Zeus). The rites also involved ritual mutilation, ranging from flagellation to the act of self-castration performed by the Gallai priests.
> 
> *Greek Lyric V Anonymous, Fragments 1030* (from Hephaestion, Handbook on Metres) (trans. Campbell) (Greek lyric B.C.) : 
> "Gallai [eunuch priests] of the Meter Oreias (Mountain Mother), thyrsus-loving, racing, by whom instruments and bronze cymbals are clashed."
> 
> "Socrates: The Korybantian revellers [of the Meter Theon] when they dance are not in their right mind ... by divine inspiration and by possession; just as the Korybantian revellers too have a quick perception of that strain only which is appropriated to the god by whom they are possessed, and have plenty of dances and words for that, but take no heed of any other." - Plato, Ion
> 
> *Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica 1*. 1076 ff (trans. Rieu) (Greek epic C3rd B.C.) :
> "[The Argonauts celebrate the orgies of the Meter Theon on Mt Didymnos near Kyzikos in Mysia :] Standing in the woods, there was an ancient vine with a massive trunk withered to the roots. They cut this down to make a sacred image of the Mountain Goddess; and when Argos had skillfully shaped it, they set it up on a rocky eminence under the shelter some tall oaks, the highest trees that grow, and made an altar of small stones near by. Then, crowned with oak-leaved, they began the sacrificial rites, invoking the Meter Dindymene (Mother of Mt Dindymos), most worshipful, who dwells in Phrygia; and with her, Titias and Kyllenos. For these two are singled out as dispensers of doom and assessors to the Meter Idaia (Mother of Mt Ida) . . . 
> ...

----------


## JBI

The idea of an Eastern dragon is a misconception - the mythological dragon of the West and the mythological dragon of the east have little in common other than the fact that they have scales (usually). It's a useful name as translation, but doesn't actually define the beast.

----------


## ftil

> The idea of an Eastern dragon is a misconception - the mythological dragon of the West and the mythological dragon of the east have little in common other than the fact that they have scales (usually). It's a useful name as translation, but doesn't actually define the beast.


Thank you for your feedback. But let me finish with Dionysus. I will look at dragons later as it seems an interesting subject.  :Wink5:

----------


## JBI

> Thank you for your feedback. But let me finish with Dionysus. I will look at dragons later as it seems an interesting subject.


It was intended as a reply to St. Lukes, who mentions how dragons vary between countries; my point was to illustrate how often what we call variance is a case of two completely different entities with similar physical appearance.

----------


## ftil

> It was intended as a reply to St. Lukes, who mentions how dragons vary between countries; my point was to illustrate how often what we call variance is a case of two completely different entities with similar physical appearance.


I understand that you replied to St. Lukes post. I ask you let me finish because I like continuity of the thread. I understand that a few members are fascinated with dragons. I would rather focus on Goddess and Gods.  :Brow:  But I will look at dragons later.

----------


## stlukesguild

Be wary, JBI... ftil has something of a pathological need to control the development of any conversation. You will notice she quoted her own thread... complete with a couple dozen images... immediately following my posting... just in case someone missed it the first time and might actually end up responding to my posting, which was woefully "off topic". :Out: 

Perhaps I should do the same thing and quote my entire post so that I might post it again. :Ciappa:

----------


## ftil

> Be wary, JBI... ftil has something of a pathological need to control the development of any conversation. You will notice she quoted her own thread... complete with a couple dozen images... immediately following my posting... just in case someone missed it the first time and might actually end up responding to my posting, which was woefully "off topic".
> 
> Perhaps I should do the same thing and quote my entire post so that I might post it again.


Thank you for your honesty. But you are making assumptions again and you are wrong. We had recently discussion about it and I am tired of repeating myself.  :Yikes: 

You got it right that I quoted my post. I did on purpose to continue about Sabazios and Cybele. There are so many gods and it makes easer to do this way. Secondly, I wrote several times that you and I have a very different approach to art. I dont like influence people what I think, therefore I have opened my tread. I explained in detail my position here and on your art tread. Why dont we respect difference? 

You have your Ovid and Metamorphosis tread. Sadly, it is dead for a longer while. You may enjoy posting your way and I may continue my way that is very different than yours. As adults, we should respect others needs, shouldnt we? 

Finally, I am not very fond of dragons and it is nothing wrong about that. I have already posted about Chimers, Griffin, and Harpies to name a few and I want to keep some balance.

So, who is controlling?  :Biggrinjester:

----------


## ftil

> The iconic image of St. George on horseback trampling the serpent-dragon beneath him is considered to be similar to these pre-Christian representations of Sabazios, the mounted god of Phrygia and Thrace.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_G...and_the_Dragon





> *Sabazios*, the Thracian reflex of Indo-European Dyeus, identified with Heros Karabazmos, the "Thracian horseman". He gained a widespread importance especially after the Roman conquest. After Christianity was adopted, the symbolism of Heros continued as representations of Saint George slaying the dragon (compare Uastyrdzhi/Tetri Giorgi in the Caucasus).
> 
> http://www.answers.com/topic/thracian-horseman



Lets look at St. George again since he got lots of attention in art.






> *Saint George* (ca. 275/281  23 April 303) was, according to tradition, a Roman soldier from Syria Palaestina and a priest in the Guard of Diocletian, who is venerated as a Christian martyr. 
> 
> The episode of Saint George and the Dragon appended to the hagiography of Saint George was Eastern in origin, brought back with the Crusaders and retold with the courtly appurtenances belonging to the genre of Romance. The earliest known depictions of the motif are from tenth- or eleventh-century Cappadocia and eleventh-century Georgia; previously, in the iconography of Eastern Orthodoxy, George had been depicted as a soldier since at least the seventh century. The earliest known surviving narrative of the dragon episode is an eleventh-century Georgian text.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_George








> According to the Golden Legend the narrative episode of Saint George and the Dragon took place in a place he called "Silene," in Libya; the Golden Legend is the first to place this legend in Libya as a sufficiently exotic locale, where a dragon might be imagined. In the tenth-century Georgian narrative, the place is the fictional city of Lasia, and it is the godless Emperor who is Selinus. 
> The town had a pond, as large as a lake, where aplague-bearing dragon dwelled that envenomed all the countryside. To appease the dragon, the people of Silene used to feed it two sheep every day, and when the sheep failed, they fed it their children, chosen by lottery. It happened that the lot fell on the king's daughter, who is in some versions of the story called Sabra. The king, distraught with grief, told the people they could have all his gold and silver and half of his kingdom if his daughter were spared; the people refused. The daughter was sent out to the lake, decked out as a bride, to be fed to the dragon.
> Saint George by chance rode past the lake. The princess, trembling, sought to send him away, but George vowed to remain. The dragon reared out of the lake while they were conversing. Saint George fortified himself with the Sign of the Cross, charged it on horseback with his lance and gave it a grievous 
> wound. Then he called to the princess to throw him her girdle, and he put it around the dragon's neck. When she did so, the dragon followed the girl like a meek beast on a leash.
> She and Saint George led the dragon back to the city of Silene, where it terrified the people at its approach. But Saint George called out to them, saying that if they consented to become Christians and be baptized, he would slay the dragon before them. The king and the people of Silene converted to Christianity, George slew the dragon, and the body was carted out of the city on four ox-carts. "Fifteen thousand men baptized, without women and children." On the site where the dragon died, the king built a church to the Blessed Virgin Mary and Saint George, and from its altar a spring arose whose waters cured all disease.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_G...and_the_Dragon



Other researchers have proposed a different interpretation of St George and the Dragon origin.





> According to Christopher Booker it is more likely, however, that the *"George and the Dragon" story is a medieval adaptation of the ancient Greek myth of Perseus and Andromeda*evidence for which can be seen in the similarity of events and locale in both stories. In this connection, the Perseus and Andromeda myth was known throughout the Middle Ages from the influence of Ovid. In imagery, other Greek myths also played a role. "Medieval artists used the Greco-Roman image of* Bellerophon and the Chimaera* as the template for representations of Saint George and the Dragon."
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_G...and_the_Dragon








*Edward Burne-Jones, Perseus Cycle 7: The Doom Fulfilled*








*Titian, Perseus and Andromeda*






* Paul Véronese, Perseus and Andromeda* 





*Bellerophon on Pegasus spears the Chimera, on an Attic red-figure epinetron, 425420 BC*






> These myths in turn may derive from an earlier Hittite myth concerning the battle between the Storm God Tarhun and the dragon Illuyankas. Such stories also have counterparts in other Indo-European mythologies: the slaying of the serpent Vritra by Indra in Vedic religion, the battle between Thor and Jörmungandr in the Norse story of Ragnarok, the *Greek account of the defeat of the Titan Typhon by Zeus.*
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_G...and_the_Dragon






*Zeus and Typhon*







> Parallels also exist outside of Indo-European mythology, for example *the Babylonian myths of Marduk slaying the dragon Tiamat*. The book of Job 41:21 speaks of a creature whose "breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth."
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_G...and_the_Dragon







*Marduk and the Dragon
Marduk, chief god of Babylon, with his thunderbolts destroys Tiamat the dragon of primeval chaos.*

----------


## ftil

Before I learned about Sabazios, I associated St. George and the Dragon with Apollo slaying the Python.




> PYTHON was a monstrous serpent which Gaia (Mother Earth) appointed to guard the oracle at Delphi. The beast was sometimes said to have been born from the rotting slime left behind after the great Deluge. When Apollo laid claim to the shrine, he slew the dragon with his arrows. The oracle and festival of the god were then named Pytho and Pythian from the rotting (pythô) corpse of the beast. 
> 
> *Seneca, Hercules Furens 453* ff (trans. Miller) (Roman tragedy C1st A.D.) :
> "Did Phoebus [Apollo] encounter savage monsters or wild beasts? A draco (dragon) was the first to stain Phoebus shafts."
> 
> *Pseudo-Apollodorus, Bibliotheca* 1. 22 (trans. Aldrich) (Greek mythographer C2nd A.D.) :
> "[Apollo] made his way to Delphi, where Themis gave the oracles at that time. When the serpent Python, which guarded the oracle, moved to prevent Apollo from approaching the oracular opening, he slew it and thus took command of the oracle."
> http://www.theoi.com/Ther/DrakainaPython.html




*APOLLO & PYTHON*

Museum Collection: Musée du Louvre, Paris, France 
Date: ca 470 BC
Period: Archaic

*SUMMARY*

Apollon, seated on the omphalos stone of Delphoi, and beside the Delphic tripod, shoots arrows at the monster Python, the old guardian of the shrine. The beast is depicted with a woman's head and breast, matching the peot Hesiod's description of Ekhidna.







> Other closely related she-dragons included the Argive Ekhidna and Poine, the Tartarean Campe, and the Phokian Sybaris or Lamia.
> EKHIDNA (or Echidna) was a monstrous she-dragon (drakaina) with the head and breast of a woman. She probably represented or presided over the corruptions of the earth : rot, slime, fetid waters, illness and disease.
> She was often equated with Python (the rotting one), a dragon born of the fetid slime left behind by the great Deluge. 
> http://www.theoi.com/Ther/DrakainaEkhidna1.html






*Apollo Slays Python, Eugene Delacroix*






*Apollo Slaying the Python*




Let's go back to Dionysus.

Dionysus was identified with Tammuz.




> *Herodotus, Histories 2. 49* (trans. Godley) (Greek historian C5th B.C.) :
> "Melampos [a mythical seer] was the one who taught the Greeks the name of Dionysus and the way of sacrificing to him . . . I [Herodotus] believe that Melampos learned the worship of Dionysus chiefly from Kadmos of Tyre [the mythical Phoenician grandfather of Dionysus] and those who came with Kadmos from Phoinikia to the land now called Boiotia."
> http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Dionysos.html






> Tammuz, Akkadian Dumuzi, in Mesopotamian religion, god of fertility embodying the powers for new life in nature in the spring. The earliest known mention of Tammuz is in texts dating to the early part of the Early Dynastic III period (c. 2600c. 2334 BC), but his cult probably was much older.
> http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/582039/Tammuz






*Tammuz*




> In Babylonia, the month Tammuz was established in honor of the eponymous god Tammuz, who originated as a Sumerian shepherd-god, Dumuzid or Dumuzi, the consort of Inanna and, in his Akkadian form, the parallel consort of Ishtar. The Levantine Adonis ("lord"), who was drawn into the Greek pantheon, was considered by Joseph Campbell among others to be another counterpart of Tammuz, son and consort. 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammuz_(deity)







Famous relief from the Old Babylonian period (now in the British museum) called the "Burney relief" or "Queen of the Night relief". The depicted figure could be an aspect of the goddess Ishtar, Mesopotamian goddess of sexual love and war. However, her bird-feet and accompanying owls have suggested to some a connection with Lilitu (called Lilith in the Bible), though seemingly not the usual demonic Lilitu.






> When the cult of Tammuz spread to Assyria in the 2nd and 1st millennia BC, the character of the god seems to have changed from that of a pastoral to that of an agricultural deity. The texts suggest that, in Assyria (and later among the Sabaeans), Tammuz was basically viewed as the power in the grain, dying when the grain was milled.
> The cult of Tammuz centred around two yearly festivals, one celebrating his marriage to the goddess Inanna, the other lamenting his death at the hands of demons from the netherworld.
> During the 3rd Dynasty of Ur (c. 2112c. 2004 BC) in the city of Umma (modern Tell Jokha), the marriage of the god was dramatically celebrated in FebruaryMarch, Ummas Month of the Festival of Tammuz.
> The celebrations in MarchApril that marked the death of the god also seem to have been dramatically performed. Many of the laments for the occasion have as a setting a procession out into the desert to the fold of the slain god. In Assyria, however, in the 7th century BC, the ritual took place in JuneJuly
> Eventually a variety of originally independent fertility gods seem to have become identified with Tammuz. Tammuz of the cattle herders, whose main distinction from Tammuz the Shepherd was that his mother was the goddess Ninsun, Lady Wild Cow, and that he himself was imagined as a cattle herder, may have been an original aspect of the god.
> http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/582039/Tammuz





> After the Old Babylonian period, Dumuzi appears only rarely in Mesopotamian.
> Thorkild Jacobsen, in The Treasures of Darkness (Yale University Press, 1976, New Haven and London) says that "the cult of Dumuzi the Shepherd (Uruk, fourth millennium BC) "comprises both happy celebration of the marriage of the god with Inanna (who, originally, it seems, was the goddess of the communal storehouse) and bitter laments when he dies as the dry heat of summer yellows the pastures and lambing, calving, and milking come to an end. Thus, "as the farmer, he helps to make the fields fertile, as the shepherd, he helps to make the sheepfolds multiply, under his reign there is vegetation, under his reign, there is rich grain" (from - "The Courtship of Inanna and Dumuzi")
> http://www.gatewaystobabylon.com/god...lordumuzi.html








Dumuzi, left, bound in hands and feet, before a god(dess) flanked by snakes. A storm god (right) stands atop a dragon 




The Mushhushshu two-horned serpent-dragon beast which supports on its back a bearded god (not identified by McCall) with mace in hand and wearing a horned crown. The Mushhushshu was associated with several different gods over a long period of time, Ninazu ("Lord Healer'), father of Ningishzida, who was also identified with the beast, possibly Dumuzi, to the degree Langdon has noted that *Ningshzida is an aspect of Dumuzi*, later Marduk and even Asshur were also identified with the serpent-dragon. The beast's tail appears similar to the quadruped in the Dumuzi seal above. Another horned god presents a human petitioner carrying an offering, perhaps a goat ? (cf. p. 53. H. McCall. Mesopotamian Myths. 1990, 1993)

----------


## ftil

Let's look at Ningishzida again.




> Ningishzida is a Mesopotamian deity of the underworld. His name in Sumerian is translated as "lord of the good tree" by Thorkild Jacobsen.
> In Sumerian mythology, he appears in Adapa's myth as one of the two guardians of Anu's celestial palace, alongside Dumuzi. He was sometimes depicted as a serpent with a human head.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ningishzida





The "libation vase of Gudea", dedicated to Ningishzida (21st century BC short chronology). The caduceus is interpreted as depicting the god himself.









Ningishzida with serpent dragon heads on his shoulder presenting King Gudaea of Samaria. Note dragon later known as the god Marduk on the left.



I have also found the caduceus at Naga stone worship at Hampi.





Let's go back to Dionysus.

Dionysus was identified with Egyptian god Osiris.




> *Herodotus, Histories 2. 42* (trans. Godley) (Greek historian C5th B.C.) :
> "No gods are worshipped by all Egyptians in common except Isis and Osiris, who they say is Dionysus; these are worshipped by all alike."
> 
> *Herodotus, Histories 2. 144 :*
> "Before men, they said, the rulers of Egypt were gods . . . the last of them to rule the country was Osiris' son Horus, whom the Greeks call Apollo; he deposed Typhon [Set], and was the last divine king of Egypt. Osiris is, in the Greek language, Dionysus."
> 
> *Herodotus, Histories 2. 156 :*
> "Apollo [Horus] and Artemis [Bastet] were (they say) children of Dionysus [Osiris] and Isis, and Leto [Buto]was made their nurse and preserver; in Egyptian, Apollo is Horus, Demeter Isis, Artemis Bubastis."
> 
> ...







> *Osiris* - ( Egyptian. Isir or Iszir ) in Egyptian mythology, the god of death and reborn life , the Great Judge of the dead. Son of the goddess Nut and the god Geb , brother Seth , Isis and Nephthys . He was married to Isis , was the ruler of the earth, the underworld and the dead ( Fields Jar ). He had two sons: Anubis of Nephthys and Horus with Isis.
> http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozyrys






Facsimile of a vignette from the Book of the Dead of Ani. The deceased Ani kneels before Osiris, judge of the dead. Behind Osiris stand his sisters Isis and Nephthys, and in front of him is a lotus on which stand the four sons of Horus.
Data	
Original artwork created c. 1300 BC










Lady Meresimen, Singer of God Amon, giving presents to Osiris and the "Four Sons of Horus", Louvre Museum









The god Osiris receiving offerings.









Book of the Dead papyrus of Pinedjem II, 21st dynasty, circa 990-969 BC. Originally from the Deir el-Bahri royal cache. This scene depicts Pinedjem II in his role of High Priest making an offering to the god Osiris. 








A triumphant Hunefer, having passed the weighing of the heart, is presented by falcon-headed Horus to the shrine of the green-skinned Osiris, god of the underworld and the dead, accompanied by Isis and Nephthys.









Weighing of the heart scene, with en:Ammit sitting, from the book of the dead of Hunefer. From the source: "The judgement, from the papyrus of the scribe Hunefer. 19th Dynasty. Hunefer is conducted to the balance by jackal-headed Anubis. The monster Ammut crouches beneath the balance so as to swallow the heart should a life of wickedness be indicated. EA9901." Anubis conducts the weighing on the scale of Maat, against the feather of truth. The ibis-headed Thoth, scribe of the gods, records the result. If his heart is lighter than the feather, Hunefer is allowed to pass into the afterlife. If not, he is eaten by the waiting chimeric devouring creature Ammit, which is composed of the deadly crocodile, lion, and hippopotamus. In the next panel, showing the scene after the weighing, a triumphant Hunefer, having passed the test, is presented by falcon-headed Horus to the shrine of the green-skinned Osiris, god of the underworld and the dead, accompanied by Isis and Nephthys. The 14 gods of Egypt are shown seated above, in the order of judges.









Part of the Book of the Dead of the scribe Nebqed, under the reign of Amenophis III (1391-1353 BC), 18th dynasty. Followed by his mother Amenemheb and his wife Meryt, Nebqed meets the Egyptian god of the dead, Osiris.









A view of the well preserved and beautifully painted Tomb TT3 from Deir el-Medina on the West Bank of Luxor. This scene depicts the god Osiris with the Mountains of the West behind him. It belonged to Pashedu who served as an Ancient Egyptian artist and foreman at Deir el-Medina under pharaoh Seti I.










Osiris, Anubis, Horus, Osiris Pharaoh XVIII dynasties and Isis.







 

Valley of the Kings, Luxor, Egypt
















Osiris, Isis, and Horus








Osiris, Louvre Museum

----------


## ftil

Dionysus identified with UNKNOWN (INDIAN GOD)




> *Philostratus, Life of Apollonius of Tyana 2. 2* (trans. Conybeare) (Greek biography C1st to 2nd A.D.) :
> 
> "Dionysus is called Nysios (Nysian) by the Indians and by all the Oriental races from Nysa in India."
> 
> *Philostratus, Life of Apollonius of Tyana 2. 6 - 10* :
> "They [The legendary prophet Apollonios of Tyana C1st A.D. and his companions] were now in land subject to the king [of India], in which the mountain of Nysa rises covered to its very top with plantations, like the mountain of Tmolos in Lydia; and you can ascend it, because paths have been made by the cultivators. They say then that when they had ascended it, they found the shrine of Dionysus, which it is said Dionysus founded in honor of himself, planting round it a circle of laurel trees which encloses just as much ground as suffices to contain a moderate sized temple.
> 
> *Ovid, Metamorphoses 4. 605* ff (trans. Melville) (Roman epic C1st B.C. to C1st A.D.) :
> "[Dionysus], conqueror of India, worshipped in the new-built shrines of Greece . . . was placed among the gods of heaven."
> ...





I will have to do more study to find connection of Dionysus with Hindu gods.




> Alain Danielou draws attention to the close similarities between the two deities and concludes that the 'Indian Bacchus' of the Greeks was none other than Skanda. Cultural anthropologist Agehananda Bharati earlier made the specific observation that Kataragama Skanda is a "Dionysian god"
> http://xlweb.com/heritage/skanda/dionysus.htm



John Lash postules Hindu-Maya-Egyptian correlation and Krishna and Osiris correlation as well as Krisha and Dionysus correlation. I have to look at Joseph Campbell's writtings as I have found his interpretations too farfetched.  :Biggrinjester: 


Lets look at *Dionysian Mysteries*






> The Dionysian Mysteries largely remain just that, a mystery. The secrecy surrounding them has been even more successful than that around the Rites of Eleusis.
> 
> The place of origin of the Hellenic Dionysian Mysteries is unknown. The first large scale cult worship of Dionysus in Greece seems to have begun in Thebes in around 1500 BC, around a thousand years before the development of the Athenian Mysteries.
> 
> The Dionysian Mysteries are believed to have consisted of two sets of rites, the outer public rites, or Dionysia, and the secret rites of initiation, presumably into the Inner Mysteries, that occurred during these Dionysia.
> 
> The basic principle beneath the original initiations, other than the seasonal death-rebirth theme supposedly common to all vegetation cults (such as the Osirian, which closely parallels the Dionysian), was one of spirit possession and atavism. This in turn was closely associated with the effects of the wine. The spirit possession involved the invocation of spirits by means of the bull roarer, followed by communal dancing to drum and pipe, with characteristic movements (such as the backward head flick) found in all trance inducing cults (represented most famously today by African Voodoo and its relatives). As in Vodoun rites, certain drum rhythms were associated with the trance state, and these rhythms are allegedly found preserved in Greek prose, particularly the Bacchae of Euripides One classical source describes what had become of these ancient rites in the Greek countryside, where they were held high in the mountains to which ritual processions were made on certain feast days:
> 
> Following the torches as they dipped and swayed in the darkness, they climbed mountain paths with head thrown back and eyes glazed, dancing to the beat of the drum which stirred their blood. In the state of ekstasis or enqousiasmos, they abandoned themselves, dancing wildly. and calling 'Euoi!' At that moment of intense rapture they became identified with the god himself. They became filled with his spirit and acquired divine powers". Peter Hoyle, Delphi (London: 1967), p. 76.
> ...



Fortunately we do have more insight into mystery rites through the preserved murals on the Bacchic Villa of the Mysteries in Pompeii.

Here a series of murals painted on the walls of an initiation chamber have been almost perfectly preserved, though there remains controversy as to whether the entire process is shown.


http://www.art-and-archaeology.com/t...mysteries.html

*Scene 1*

The action of the rite begins with the initiate or bride crossing the threshold as the preparations for the rites to begin. Her wrist is cocked against her hip. Is she removing her scarf? Is she listening to the boy read from the scroll? Is she pregnant?
The nudity of the boy may signify that he is divine. Is he reading rules of the rite? He wears actor's boots, perhaps indicating the dramatic aspect of the rites. The officiating priestess (behind the boy) holds another scroll in her left hand and a stylus in her right hand. Is she prepared to add the initiate's name to a list of successful initiates?





The initiate, now more lightly clad, carries an offering tray of sacramental cake. She wears a myrtle wreath. In her right hand she holds a laurel sprig.




*Scene 2*

A priestess (center), wearing a head covering and a wreath of myrtle removes a covering from a ceremonial basket held by a female attendant. Speculations about the contents of the basket include: more laurel, a snake, or flower petals. A second female attendant wearing a wreath, pours purifying water into a basin in which the priestess is about to dip a sprig of laurel.
Mythological characters and music are introduced into the narrative. An aging Silenus plays a ten-string lyre resting on a column.




> The second mural depicts another priestess and her assistants preparing the Liknon basket, at her feet are mysterious mushroom shaped objects, which some find suggestive. 
> http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/LX/Dio...Mysteries.html









*Scene 3*


A young male satyr plays pan pipes, while a nymph suckles a goat. The initiate is being made aware of her close connection with nature. This move from human to nature represents a shift away from the conscious human world to our preconscious animal state. In many rituals, this regression, assisted by music, is requisite to achieving a psychological state necessary for rebirth and regeneration.
The startled initiate has a glimpse of what awaits her in the inner sanctuary where the katabasis will take place. This is her last chance to save herself by running away. Perhaps some initiates did just that. The next scene provides hints about what both frightens and awaits the initiate.




> Some scholars think a katabasis occurs now, others disagree.
> http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/LX/Dio...Mysteries.html








*Scene 4*


The Silenus looks disapprovingly at the startled initiate as he holds up an empty silver bowl. A young satyr gazes into the bowl, as if mesmerized. Another young satyr holds a theatrical mask (resembling the Silenus) aloft and looks off to his left. Some speculate that the mask rather than the satyr's face is reflected in the silver bowl. So, looking into the vessel is an act of divination: the young satyr sees himself in the future, a dead satyr. The young satyr and the young initiate are coming to terms with their own deaths. In this case the death of childhood and innocence. The bowl may have held Kykeon, the intoxicating drink of participants in Orphic-Dionysian mysteries, intended for the frightened initiate.







*Scene 5*

This scene is at the center of both the room and the ritual. Dionysus sprawls in the arms of his mother Semele. Dionysus wears a wreath of ivy, his thyrsus tied with a yellow ribbon lies across his body, and one sandal is off his foot. Even though the fresco is badly damaged, we can see that Semele sits on a throne with Dionysus leaning on her. Semele, the queen, the great mother is supreme.








*Scene 6*




> The next mural sees the initiate returning, perhaps from a successful ordeal, she now carries a staff and wears a cap. She kneels before the priestess and then appears to be whipped by a winged female figure. Flagellation being one of the many trance inducing techniques used in the Bacchic rites. Next to her is a dancing figure, a Maenad or Thyiade. 
> http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/LX/Dio...Mysteries.html


The initiate, carrying a staff and wearing a cap, returns from the night journey. What has happened is a mystery to us. But in similar rituals the confused, and sometimes drugged initiate emerges like an infant at birth, from a dark place to a lighted place. She reaches for a covered object sitting in a winnowing basket, the liknon. The covered object is taken by many to be a phallus, or a herm.




To the right is a winged divinity, perhaps Aidos. Her raised hand is rejecting or warding off something. She is looking to the left and is prepared to strike with a whip.

Standing behind the initiate are two figures of women, unfortunately badly damaged. One woman (far left) holds a plate with what appear to be pine needles above the initiate's head. The apprehensive second figure is drawing back.



*Scene 7*

The two themes of this scene are torture and transfiguration, the evocative climax of the rite. Notice the complete abandonment to agony on the face of the initiate and the lash across her back. She is consoled by a woman identified as a nurse. To the right a nude women clashes celebratory cymbals and another woman is about to give to the initiate a thyrsus, symbolizing the successful completion of the rite.








*Scene 8*

This scene represents an event after the completion of the ritual drama. The transformed initiate or bride prepares, with the help of an attendant, for marriage. A young Eros figure holds a mirror which reflects the image of the bride. Both the bride and her reflected image stare out inquiringly at us, the observers.







*Scene 9*

The figure above has been identified as: the mother of the bride, the mistress of the villa, or the bride herself. Notice that she does wear a ring on her finger. If she is the same female who began the dramatic ritual as a headstrong girl, she has certainly matured psychologically.







*Scene 10*

Eros, a son of Chronos or Saturn, god of Love, is the final figure in the narrative.












> The evolution of the Dionysian Cult continued in the Roman Empire, where the Bacchic Mysteries, as they were known here after their arrival in 200 BC, were banned for a time in Rome and forced underground, following rumours of their "corrupt" and "subversive" behavior. They were revived under Julius Caesar around 50 BC, and remained in existence, along with the Bacchanalian street procession, at least until the time of Augustine (A.D. 354-430))
> http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/LX/Dio...Mysteries.html






> We may, however, remark at once, that all traditions which have reference to a mystic worship of Dionysus, are of a comparatively late origin. The orgiastic worship of Dionysus seems to have been first established in Thrace, and to have thence spread southward to mounts Helicon and Parnassus, to Thebes, Naxos, and throughout Greece, Sicily, and Italy, though some writers derived it from Egypt. (Paus. i. 2. § 4; Diod. i. 97.)
> http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Dionysos.html

----------


## ftil

Dionysus got lot's of attention. Time to change a subject.  :Wink5: 





> *IRIS* was the goddess of the rainbow, the messenger of the Olympian gods. She was often represented as the handmaiden and personal messenger of Hera. Iris was a goddess of sea and sky--her father Thaumas "the wondrous" was a marine-god, and her mother Elektra "the amber" a cloud-nymph. 
> 
> In the Homeric poems she appears as the minister of the Olympian gods, who carries messages from Ida to Olympus, from gods to gods, and from gods to men. (Il. xv. 144, xxiv. 78, 95, ii. 787, xviii. 168,Hymn. in Apoll. Del. 102, &c.)
> ]http://www.theoi.com/Pontios/Iris.html]







*IRIS*

Museum Collection: Museum of Art, Rhode Island School of Design, New York City, USA 

Date: ca 480 BC
Period: Late Archaic

*SUMMARY*

Detail of Iris from a painting depicting her in the attendance of Hera. Iris appears as a winged goddess, whose hair is wrapped in a sakkos scarf. She holds an oinochoe jug and kerykeion (herald's wand) in her hands.







*IRIS AT ALTAR*

Museum Collection: (last known) Sotheby's, London, UK 

*SUMMARY*

Iris, the winged messenger of the gods, stands at an altar holding her kerykeion or herald's wand.









> Some poets describe Iris actually as the rainbow itself, but Servius (ad Aen v. 610) states that the rainbow is only the road on which Iris travels, and which therefore appears whenever the goddess wants it, and vanishes when it is no longer needed:
> 
> *Hesiod, Theogony 265* ff (trans. Evelyn-White) (Greek epic C8th or C7th B.C.) :
> "Now Thaumas married a daughter of deep-running Oceanus, Electra, and she bore him swift-footed Iris, the rainbow."
> http://www.theoi.com/Pontios/Iris.html





> *Pseudo-Apollodorus, Bibliotheca 1. 10* (trans. Aldrich) (Greek mythographer C2nd A.D.) :
> "Thaumas and Elektra (Electra) had [children] Iris and the Harpyiai (Harpies) named Aello and Okypete."
> 
> http://www.theoi.com/Pontios/Iris.html






*Johan Pasch*






*William Blake, Hell_XIII*





> With regard to her functions, which we have above briefly described, we may further observe, that the Odyssey never mentions Iris, but only Hermes as the messenger of the gods: in the Iliad, on the other hand, she appears most frequently, and on the most different occasions. She is principally engaged in the service of Zeus, but also in that of Hera, and even serves Achilles in calling the winds to his assistance. (Il. xxiii. 199.)
> 
> 
> *Statius, Silvae 3. 3. 80* ff (trans. Mozley) (Roman poetry C1st A.D.) :
> "The winged Arcadian [Hermes] is the messenger of supreme Jove [Zeus]; Juno [Hera] hath power over the rain-bringing Thaumantian [Iris the rainbow].
> 
> 
> *Plato, Cratylus 400d & 408c* ff (trans. Lamb) (Greek philosopher C4th B.C.) :
> "[Plato invents philosophical etymologies to explain the names of the gods:]
> ...






*IRIS & THE INFANT HERMES*

Museum Collection: Antiken-sammlungen, Munich, Germany 
Date: ca 500 - 450 BC 
Period: Classical

SUMMARY

The winged goddess Iris, messenger of the gods, nurses the infant Hermes on her breast. She is depicted with a tiara-crown and a kerykeion (herald's wand) in her hand.





*Spranger, Bartholomäus, Hermes and Athena*






Punishment of Ixion: in the center Mercury holding the caduceus, on the right the throning Juno, behind her Iris. On the left Vulcanus with Ixion already tied to the wheel. At Mercuries feet sitting Nephele. Roman fresco from the eastern wall of the triclinium in the Casa dei Vettii (VI 15,1) in Pompeii.






*Wenzel Hollar* 






Venus, supported by Iris, complaining to Mars, exhibited in 1820 at the RA "to acclaim" (in the Ceiling of the Ante Library Chatsworth House)  Winner of the Royal Academy Painting of the Year in 1823







*Iris and Jupiter, Michel Corneille the Younger, Palace of Versailles, Versailles
*






*Morpheus and Iris, Baron Pierre-Narcisse Guérin* 








> *Nonnus, Dionysiaca 31. 103* ff (trans. Rouse) (Greek epic C5th A.D.) :
> "Hera made her way brooding to the waters of Khremetes [Chremetes, a river of North Africa] in the west . . . and she sought out the wife of jealous Zephyros (West-Wind), Iris (Rainbow), the messenger of Zeus when he is in a hurry--for she wished to send her swift as the wind from heaven with a message for shadowy Hypnos (Sleep). She called Iris then, and coaxed her with friendly words: Iris, goldenwing bride of plantnourishing Zephyros, happy mother of Eros (Love) [i.e. Pothos]! Hasten with stormshod foot to the home of gloomy Hypnos in the west. Seek also about seagirt Lemnos, and if you find him tell him to charm the eyes of Zeus uncharmable for one day, that I may help the Indians. But change your shape, take the ugly form of Hypnos' mother the blackgirdled goddess Nyx (Night); take a false name and become darkness . . . Promise him Pasithea for his bride, and let him do my need from desire of her beauty. I need not tell you that one lovesick will do anything for hope.
> At these words, Iris goldenwing flew away peering through the air . . . seeking the wandering track of vagrant Hypnos (Sleep). She found him on the slopes of nuptial Orkhomenos . . . Then Iris changed her shape, and all unseen she put on the look of dark Nyx unrecognisable. She came near to Hypnos, weaving guile; and in his mothers guise uttered her deceitful speech in cajoling whispers . . . Iris begged him to fasten Kronion with slumber for the course of one day only . . . Then goddess Iris returned flying at speed and hastened to deliver her welcome message to her queen."
> http://www.theoi.com/Pontios/Iris.html





Iris visits the Sleep. Engraving by Virgil Solis for Ovid's Metamorphoses Book XI, 








*Iris, goddess of the Rainbow, Howard D. Johnson*







> In the earlier poets, and even in Theocritus (xvii. 134) and Virgil (Aen. v. 610) Iris appears as a virgin goddess; but according to later writers, she was married to Zephyrus, and became by him the mother of Eros. (Eustath. ad Hom. pp. 391, 555; Plut. Amat. 20.)
> 
> *Nonnus, Dionysiaca 31. 103* ff (trans. Rouse) (Greek epic C5th A.D.) :
> "The wife of Zephyros (West-Wind), Iris (Rainbow), the messenger of Zeus . . . Iris, goldenwing bride of plantnourishing Zephyros, happy mother of Eros (Love) [i.e. the eros Pothos]."
> 
> http://www.theoi.com/Pontios/Iris.html

----------


## ftil

Let's look at rainbow symbolism.





> The rainbow, a natural phenomenon noted for its beauty and inexplicability, has been a favorite component of mythology throughout history.
> Whether as bridge, messenger, archers bow, or serpent, the rainbow has been pressed into symbolic service for millennia.
> In Judeo-Christian traditions signs it as a covenant with God not to destroy the world by means of floodwater. 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbows_in_mythology







Noah's Thanks offering by Joseph Anton Koch. Noah builds an altar to the Lord after being delivered from the Flood; God sends the rainbow as a sign of his covenant (Genesis 8-9).







> In Norse mythology, Bifröst or Bilröst is a burning rainbow bridge that reaches between Midgard (the world) and Asgard, the realm of the gods. The bridge is attested as Bilröst in the Poetic Edda; compiled in the 13th century from earlier traditional sources, and as Bifröst in the Prose Edda; written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson, and in the poetry of skalds. Both the Poetic Edda and the Prose Edda alternately refer to the bridge as Asbrú (Old Norse "Æsir's bridge").
> 
> John Lindow points to a parallel between Bifröst, which he notes is "a bridge between earth and heaven, or earth and the world of the gods", and the bridge Gjallarbrú, "a bridge between earth and the underworld, or earth and the world of the dead." Several scholars have proposed that Bifröst may represent the Milky Way.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifrost






The god Heimdallr stands before the rainbow bridge while blowing a horn by Emil Doepler.








> In 1866, Constantino Brumidi's oil on canvas Apotheosis of George Washington "Americas founding father wears a [calm] expression as he is propelled heavenward on a rainbow... Surrounded by thirteen maidens, Washington serenely supervises an armed Lady Liberty beneath him as she tramples out the powers of kings and tyrants." The Victorians of Brumidis age were merely "inheritors of a long tradition of exploiting the rainbows powerful visual symbolism," perpetuated by thousands of years of human communication. 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbows_in_mythology






*Constantino Brumidi, Apotheosis of Washington*


Details of Apotheosis of Washington




"Agriculture": Ceres, the goddess of agriculture, is shown with a wreath of wheat and a cornucopia, seated on a McCormick reaper. Young America in a liberty cap holds the reins of the horses, while Flora gathers flowers in the foreground.







"Commerce": Mercury, god of commerce, with his winged cap and sandals and caduceus, hands a bag of gold to en:Robert Morris, financier of the Revolutionary War. On the left, men move a box on a dolly; on the right, the anchor and sailors lead into the next scene, "Marine."







"Marine": Neptune, god of the sea, holding his trident and crowned with seaweed, rides in a shell chariot drawn by sea horses. Venus, goddess of love born from the sea, helps lay the transatlantic cable. In the background is a form of iron-clad ship with smokestacks.







"Mechanics": Vulcan, god of the forge, stands at his anvil with his foot on a cannon, near a pile of cannon balls and with a steam engine in the background. The man at the forge is thought to represent Charles Thomas, who was in charge of the ironwork of the Capitol dome.








"Science": Minerva, goddess of wisdom and the arts of civilization, with helmet and spear, points to an electric generator creating power stored in batteries, next to a printing press, while inventors Benjamin Franklin, Samuel F. B. Morse, and Robert Fulton watch. At the left, a teacher demonstrates the use of dividers.







"War": Armored Freedom, sword raised and cape flying, with a helmet and shield reminiscent of those on the Statue of Freedom, tramples Tyranny and Kingly Power; she is assisted by a fierce eagle carrying arrows and a thunderbolt.








> Sumerian mythology
> The Epic of Gilgamesh, who was an ancient Sumerian king (ca.3000 BC), is our first detailed written evidence of human civilization. In a Victorian translation of a Gilgamesh variant, Leonidas Le Cenci Hamilton's Epic of Ishtar and Izdubar, King Izdubar sees "a mass of colors like the rainbows hues" that are "linked to divine sanction for war." Later in the epic, Izdubar sees the "glistening colors of the rainbow rise" in the fountain of life next to Elams Tree of Immortality.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbows_in_mythology








> In Australian Aboriginal mythology, the rainbow snake is the Creator (Kurreah, Andrenjinyi, Yingarna, Ngalyod and others) in the Dreaming, which is the infinite period of time that "began with the world's creation and that has no end. People, animals, and Eternal Beings like the Rainbow Serpent are all part of the Dreaming, and everyday life is affected by the Dreaming's immortals," in almost every Australian Aborigine tribe. In these tribes, of which there are over 50, actual rainbows are gigantic, often malevolent, serpents who inhabit the sky or ground. This snake has different names in different tribes, and has both different and similar traits from tribe to tribe.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbows_in_mythology





Australian Aboriginal rock painting of "The Rainbow Serpent".


And we have The Wizard of Oz.  :Biggrin5:

----------


## Des Essientes

It should be remembered that the European artists concept of animals did not include lions or elephants. Perhaps the largest beast of prey they would have been familiar with would have been the Wolf and the Bear... and even then, the larger bear, such as the Grizzly and the Brown Bear would not have been known to most of Europe. Many of the image prior to the late Renaissance or even the Baroque (1600s) suggest little knowledge even of a creature such as the lion:

[/QUOTE]
Lions had been indigenous to Europe as is well demonstrated by the verses of the Iliad in which Homer frequently compares the heros to lions, and these beasts had not been forgotten by Europeans, hence the title of the crusader king Richard "the Lion Hearted", and even if the lion were somewhat forgotten in Europe, just as in the case of the dragon, whose form is gotten from enlarging that of a lizard, the lion, save for the mane, can be extrapolated from the smaller cats that are indigenous to Europe. Lions had never been found, or were made extinct long ago, in South-East Asia but that area having been in good part converted to Buddhism, an originally Indian religion which made much use of the lion in its literature, Buddhist monks bred the Pekinese dog to have a mane and feline features thus approximating the appearance of the lion.

----------


## stlukesguild

Lions had been indigenous to Europe as is well demonstrated by the verses of the Iliad in which Homer frequently compares the heros to lions, and these beasts had not been forgotten by Europeans, hence the title of the crusader king Richard "the Lion Hearted"...

OK... I should clarify this. Lions and elephants were known in Europe... certainly to the Romans. The Greeks may have known of them through trade with Africa. Elephants would have been known to the Romans as employed by the Carthaginians. Such animals were not, however, known to the majority of Europeans from the fall of Rome until at least the late Renaissance in the sense that they had any real grasp as to how these animals looked as opposed to the wolf, bear, and other animals that were native to the region. Most of the portrayals of Lions and Elephants and other non-native beasts are rather comic... and based solely upon hearsay and written descriptions:







These artists almost certainly never saw a real lion. There representations were probably based upon myth, legend, written descriptions... and if they were lucky... an image from an antique text illustrating the animal.

As we move later into the Middle-Ages and Renaissance there are records of carnivals and zoos and the private collections of the wealthy having lions, tigers and other wild beasts. These images suggest a passing familiarity with the actual animals:







As we move into the later Renaissance and the Baroque, it becomes clear that artists have now had time to make serious studies as to anatomy of the Lion:


-Albrecht Durer


-Peter Paul Rubens

Both Durer and Rubens would have been among the most sophisticated, educated, and well-traveled artists and so they would have had far more opportunity to see a lion or tiger or elephant in captivity. The majority of the population would have only known of such through representations in art... and as most art was reserved for the wealthy, it would have only been through the art in the church or in folk art and commercial prints. 

Well into the 19th and 20th centuries our concepts of Asia, the Middle-East, and Africa were limited to their representations in art as well.

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## ftil

Interesting theme. I love lions. Goddess also liked lions. 

We have to talk about Sphinx too. I will explore that subject later. I am not done with Greek mythology, yet.






) The mother-goddess standing upon a lioness (which is her Sekhet form): she is wearing her girdle, and upon her head is the moon and the cow's horns, conventionalized so as to simulate the crescent moon. Her hair is represented in the conventional form which is sometimes used as Hathor's symbol. In her hands are the serpent and the lotus, which again are merely forms of the goddess herself.

(b) Another picture of Astarte (from Roscher's "Lexikon") holding the papyrus sceptre which at times is regarded as an animate form of the mother-goddess herself and as such a thunder weapon.

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## ftil

Let's go back to Iris, goddess of rainbow. 




> In the earlier poets, and even in Theocritus (xvii. 134) and Virgil (Aen. v. 610) Iris appears as a virgin goddess; but according to later writers, she was married to Zephyrus, and became by him the mother of Eros. (Eustath. ad Hom. pp. 391, 555; Plut. Amat. 20.)
> 
> *Nonnus, Dionysiaca 31. 103* ff (trans. Rouse) (Greek epic C5th A.D.) :
> "The wife of Zephyros (West-Wind), Iris (Rainbow), the messenger of Zeus . . . Iris, goldenwing bride of plant nourishing Zephyrus, happy mother of Eros (Love) [i.e. the eros Pothos]."
> http://www.theoi.com/Pontios/Iris.html







> *Zephyrus* was the god of the west wind, one of the four directional Anemoi (Wind-Gods). He was also the god of spring, husband of Chloris (Flora), and father of Karpos (Fruit).
> 
> *Pseudo-Hyginus, Preface* (trans. Grant) (Roman mythographer C2nd A.D.) :
> "From Astraeus and Aurora [Eos] : Zephyrus, Boreas, Notus, Favonius ."
> Zephyrus' most famous myth told the story of his rivalry with *the god Apollo* *for the love of Hyacinthus* . One day he spied the pair playing a game of quoits in a meadow, and in a jealous rage, struck the disc with a gust of wind, causing it to veer off course and strike the boy in the head, killing him instantly. Apollo in his grief, then transformed the dying boy into a larkspur flower.
> http://www.theoi.com/Titan/AnemosZephyros.html





> *Nonnus, Dionysiaca 29. 95* ff : 
> "Apollo bemoaned Hyacinthus, struck by the quoit which brought him quick death, and reproached the blast of Zephyrus (the West Winds) jealous gale."
> 
> *Ovid, Fasti 5. 223* ff (trans.Boyle) (Roman poetry C1st B.C. to C1st A.D.) :
> "I [Chloris] first made a flower from Therapnean blood [of Hyacinthus, the love of Zephyrus], and its petal still inscribes the lament."
> http://www.theoi.com/Titan/AnemosZephyros.html







*Zephyrus & Hyacinthus*

Museum Collection: Museum of Fine Arts, Boston, Massachusetts, USA 

Date: ca 490 - 480 BC
Period: Late Archaic

*SUMMARY*

Two figures representing either Zephyrus, the winged god of the west wind, holding his lover Hyacinthus in a close embrace; or an allegorical depiction of Love (Eros) desiring and seizing the beauty of youth.







> Zephyrus became the father of the horses Xanthus and Balius, which belonged to Achilles (Hom. Il. xvi. 150, &c.); but he was married to Chloris, whom he had carried off by force, and by whom he had a son Carpus. (Ov. Fast. v. 197; Serv. ad Virg. Eclog. v. 48.)
> 
> 
> *Ovid, Fasti 5. 197* ff (trans.Boyle) (Roman poetry C1st B.C. to C1st A.D.) :
> "I [the Roman goddess Flora] was Chloris (Flower), nymph of the happy fields [Elysion], the homes of the blessed (you hear) in earlier times. To describe my beauty would mar my modesty: it found my mother a son-in law god. It was spring, I wandered; Zephyrus (the West Wind) saw me, I left. He pursues, I run : he was the stronger; and Boreas gave his brother full rights of rape by robbing Erechtheus house of its prize [Oreithyia]. But he makes good the rape by naming me his bride, and I have no complaints about my marriage. I enjoy perpetual spring: the year always shines, trees are leafing, the soild always fodders. I have a fruitful garden in my dowered fields, fanned by breezes, fed by limpid fountains. My husband filled it with well-bred flowers, saying : `Have jurisdiction of the flower, goddess.'"
> http://www.theoi.com/Titan/AnemosZephyros.html





*The wedding of Zephyrus and Chloris. Ancient Roman fresco (54-68 d.C.), Pompeii, Italy.*








*William-Adolphe Bouguereau, Flora And Zephyr*










*John William Waterhouse, Flora and the Zephyrs*










*Sandro Botticelli, Primavera*








*Sandro Botticelli*









*Antoine Watteau*









*Frederic Schall, Zephyr Crowning Flora*









*Flora and Zephyrus*









*Warsaw, Lazienki*










*Zephyrus by Antonio Bonazza, Upper Gardens of Peterhof.*

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## ftil

A few discussions encouraged me to look at the history of Greece.

from http://www.ancientgreece.com/s/Culture/

*NEOLITHIC PERIOD OD (6000 - 2900 BC)*

According to historians and archeological findings, the Neolithic Age in Greece lasted from 6800 to 3200 BC. The most domesticated settlements were in Near East of Greece.

*EARLY BRONZE AGE (2900 - 2000BC)*

The Greek Bronze Age or the Early Helladic Era started around 2800 BC and lasted till 1050 BC in Crete while in the Aegean islands it started in 3000 BC. 

*Minoan Age(2000 - 1400 BC )*

Bronze Age civilization, centering on the island of Crete. It was named after the legendary king Minos. It is divided into three periods: the early Minoan period (c.3000-2200 B.C.), the Middle Minoan period (c.2200-1500 B.C.) and the Late Minoan period (c.1500-1000 B.C.).





> The Minoans seem to have worshipped primarily goddesses, which has sometimes been described as a "matriarchal religion". Although there is some evidence of male gods, depictions of Minoan goddesses vastly outnumber depictions of anything that could be considered a Minoan god. While some of these depictions of women are speculated to be images of worshippers and priestesses officiating at religious ceremonies, as opposed to the deity herself, there still seem to be several goddesses including a Mother Goddess of fertility, a Mistress of the Animals, a protectress of cities, the household, the harvest, and the underworld, and more. Some have argued that these are all aspects of a single Great Goddess. They are often represented byserpents, birds, poppies, and a somewhat vague shape of an animal upon the head.
> 
> A major festive celebration was exemplified in the famous athletic Minoan bull dance, represented at large in the frescoes of Knossos and inscribed in miniature seals.
> 
> The Minoan horn-topped altars, since Evans' time conventionally called "Horns of Consecration" are represented in seal impressions, and survive in examples as far afield as Cyprus.
> 
> Minoan sacred symbols include the bull and its horns of consecration, the labrys (double-headed axe), the pillar, the serpent, the sun-disk, and the tree. However, recently a completely different interpretation of these symbols, focusing on apiculture instead of religious significance, has been suggested.
> 
> Evidence that suggests the Minoans may have performed human sacrifice has been found at three sites: (1) Anemospilia, in a MMII building near Mt. Juktas, interpreted as a temple, (2) an EMII sanctuary complex at Fournou Korifi in south central Crete, and (3) Knossos, in an LMIB building known as the "North House. (explanation of abbreviations)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sn...ete_1600BC.jpg


from http://www.ancientgreece.com/s/Culture/

*Mycenaean Age (600 - 1100 BC)* 

The Mycenaean Age dates from around 1600 BC to 1100 BC, during the Bronze Age. 

*Religion*

Little is known about the religious practices of the Mycenaeans. Only a few texts depict the name of Gods. A popular deity was Poseidon, (at the time probably associated with earthquakes). Other important Gods included the Lady of the Labyrinth and Diwia (Sea Goddess). Other members of the pantheon of which evidence has been found include Zeus-Hera, Ares, Hermes, Athena, Artemis, Dionysus and Erinya.
There are very few temples or shrines that have been found where religious practices might have been exercised: So we can assume all rituals took place on open ground or in peak sanctuaries. Some shrines that are found have a tripartite structural design.
Minoans had a strong influence on most of the religious practices and rituals practised by the Mycenaeans.

*The Dark Ages (1100 - 750 BC)*

The period between the fall of the Mycenean civilizations and the readoption of writing in the eigth or seventh century BC. After the Trojan Wars the Mycenaeans went through a period of civil war, the country was weak and a tribe called the Dorians took over. Some speculate that Dorian invaders from the north with iron weapons laid waste the Mycenaean culture. Others look to internal dissent, uprising and rebellion, or perhaps some combination.


*Archaic Period (750 - 500 BC)*

The Archaic Period in Greece refers to the years between 750 and 480 B.C., more particularly from 620 to 480 B.C. The age is defined through the development of art at this time, specifically through the style of pottery and sculpture, showing the specific characteristics that would later be developed into the more naturalistic style of the Classical period. The Archaic is one of five periods that Ancient Greek history can be divided into; it was preceded by the Dark Ages and followed by the Classical period. The Archaic period saw advancements in political theory, especially the beginnings of democracy, as well as in culture and art. The knowledge and use of written language which was lost in the Dark Ages was re-established.

*Classical Period (500-336 BC)*

Classical period of ancient Greek history, is fixed between about 500 B. C., when the Greeks began to come into conflict with the kingdom of Persia to the east, and the death of the Macedonian king and conqueror Alexander the Great in 323 B.C. In this period Athens reached its greatest political and cultural heights: the full development of the democratic system of government under the Athenian statesman Pericles; the building of the Parthenon on the Acropolis; the creation of the tragedies of Sophocles, Aeschylus and Euripides; and the founding of the philosophical schools of Socrates and Plato.

*Hellenistic Period (336-146 BC)*

Hellenistic Period between the conquest of the Persian Empire by Alexander the Great and the establishment of Roman supremacy, in which Greek culture and learning were pre-eminent in the Mediterranean and Asia Minor. It is called Hellenistic (Greek, Hellas, "Greece") to distinguish it from the Hellenic culture of classical Greece.





> Oligarchies and tyrannies, meaning "ruled by a few, ruled in this way until Ancient Greek democracy emerged around the 6'th century B. C. But democracy began as an expanded version of the original oligarchy as all women, slaves and foreigners were excluded from democracy. This new political system required a complex set of laws in order to keep this complicated social structure organized. The birth of Western philosophy occurred in Miletus with the philosopher and thinker Thales, and early literary output, such as the Homeric epics and the poetry of Hesiod, began in Ionia. Archaic Period brought about the solidification of the Greeks' religion, mythology and founding history.
> http://www.ancientgreece.com/s/ArchaicPeriod/


from http://www.ancientgreece.com/s/Culture/

*Government*

*c.800 BC*
The majority of Greek states were governed by groups of rich landowners, called aristocrats; this word is derived from 'aristoi', meaning best people. This was a system known as 'oligarchy' the rule by the few.

*c.750 BC*
Athenian power in the Archaic Period was controlled by Aeropagus, or council. Their policies were delivered through three magistrates called Archons.

*c.500 BC*
Democracy was introduced by an aristocrat, Cleisthenes. Who was from family of the Alcmaeonids in 508 BC, after 2 years of civil war, they used the help of Spartans to secure power.


*Ancient Greek Theatre*

The Greek theatre history began with festivals honoring their gods. A god, Dionysus, was honored with a festival called by "City Dionysia". In Athens, during this festival, men used to perform songs to welcome Dionysus. Plays were only presented at City Dionysia festival.
Athens was the main center for these theatrical traditions. Athenians spread these festivals to its numerous allies in order to promote a common identity.
The cast of a Greek play in the Dionysia was comprised of amateurs, not professionals (all male).

*Ancient Greek Everyday Life*

Men if they were not training in military, or discussing politics went to the Theatre for entertainment. To watch dramas that they could relate to, including tragedies and comedies. These often involved current politics and gods in some form. It is thought that women were not allowed to watch theatre or perform at the theatre, although male actors did play women roles.
Lives of Women in Ancient Greece were closely tied to domestic work, spinning, weaving and other domestic duties. They were not involved in public life or in politics. The live were normally quite confined to the house although one public duty was acting as a priestess at a temple.

*Ancient Greek Games*
Greek boys played games like hockey, which were not part of the Olympic Games. The Ancient Greek boys usually played games naked, so girls were forbidden to watch. 

* Olympics*
The Greeks invented athletic contests and held them in honour of their gods. The Isthmos game were staged every two years at the Isthmos of Corinth. The Pythian games took place every four years near Delphi. The most famous games held at Olympia, South- West of Greece, which took place every four years. The ancient Olympics seem to have begun in the early 700 BC, in honour of Zeus. No women were allowed to watch the games and only Greek nationals could participate. One of the ancient wonders was a statue of Zeus at Olympia, made of gold and ivory by a Greek sculptor Pheidias. This was placed inside a Temple, although it was a towering 42 feet high.
The games at Olympia were greatly expanded from a one-day festival of athletics and wrestling to, in 472 BC, five days with many events. The order of the events is not precisely known, but the first day of the festival was devoted to sacrifices. On the Middle Day of the festival 100 oxen were sacrificed in honor of a God. Athletes also often prayed and made small sacrifices themselves..
On the second day, the foot-race, the main event of the games, took place in the stadium, an oblong area enclosed by sloping banks of earth.
At Olympia there were 4 different types of races; The first was stadion, the oldest event of the Games, where runners sprinted for 1 stade, the length of the stadium(192m). The other races were a 2-stade race (384 m.), and a long-distance run which ranged from 7 to 24 stades (1,344 m. to 4,608 m.).The fourth type of race involved runners wearing full amor, which was 2-4 stade race (384 m. to 768 m.), used to build up speed and stamina for military purposes.
On other days, wrestling, boxing, and the pancratium, a combination of the two, were held. In wrestling, the aim was to throw the opponent to the ground three times, on either his hip, back or shoulder. In ancient Greek wrestling biting and genital holds were illegal.

Boxing became more and more brutal; at first the pugilists wound straps of soft leather over their fingers as a means of deadening the blows, but in later times hard leather, sometimes weighted with metal, was used. In the pancratium, the most rigorous of the sports, the contest continued until one or the other of the participants acknowledged defeat.

Horse-racing, in which each entrant owned his horse, was confined to the wealthy but was nevertheless a popular attraction. The course was 6 laps of the track, with separate races for whereupon the rider would have no stirrups. It was only wealthy people that could pay for such training, equipment, and feed of both the rider and the horses. So whichever horse won it was not the rider who was awarded the Olive wreath but the owner. There were also Chariot races, that consisted of both 2-horse and 4-horse chariot races, with separate races for chariots drawn by foals. There was also a race was between carts drawn by a team of 2 mules, which was 12 laps of the stadium track.

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## ftil

> As god of the dead (Yama) and snarling monster Avalokiteshvara also holds the wheel of life in his claws, which is in truth a death wheel (a sign of rebirth) in Buddhism. Among the twelve fundamental evils etched into the rim of the wheel which make an earthly/human existence appear worthless can be found sexual love, pregnancy and birth.
> 
> This information is incorrect. Yama is not the wrathful incarnation of Avolokiteshvara. It is Mahalkala. (Scroll down the link below)
> 
> http://www.exoticindiaart.com/article/mahakala/
> 
> The site you have referenced has an agenda against HH The Dalai Lama, and it looks like Tibetan Buddhism in paticular. For example - 
> 
> Among the twelve fundamental evils etched into the rim of the wheel which make an earthly/human existence appear worthless can be found sexual love, pregnancy and birth.
> ...



I went back to your post and to do more reading.
On website you have posted it is said that in the the Gelukpa order of Tibetan Buddhism manifestation Mahakala is considered to be the fierce and powerful emanation of Avalokiteshvara, the bodhisattva of compassion.

But Avalokitasvara has 33 different manifestations, including female manifestations, all to suit the minds of various beings. These are found in the Lotus Sūtra chapter 25.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avalokite%C5%9Bvara

It is more complex if we consider that we have Hinayana Buddhism, Mahayana Buddhism, and Tantric Buddhism. The author was talking about tantric doctrine.





> In the face of this splendor of light it is all too easy to forget that Avalokiteshvara also has his shady side. Every Buddha and every Bodhisattva  tantric doctrine says  can appear in a peaceful and a terrible form. This is also true for the Bodhisattva of supreme compassion. Among his eleven heads can be found the terrifying head of Yama, the god of the dead. He and Avalokiteshvara form a unit. Hence, as the king of all demons (one ofYamas epithets), the light god also reigns over the various Buddhist hells.
> 
> Yama is depicted on Tibetan thangkas as a horned demon with a crown of human skulls and an aroused penis. Usually he is dancing wildly upon a bull beneath the weight of which a woman, with whom the animal is copulating, is being crushed. Fokke Sierksma and others see in this scene an attack on a pre-Buddhist (possibly matriarchal) fertility rite (Sierksma, 1966, p. 215).
> 
> As god of the dead (Yama) and snarling monster Avalokiteshvara also holds the wheel of life in his claws, which is in truth a death wheel (a sign of rebirth) in Buddhism. Among the twelve fundamental evils etched into the rim of the wheel which make an earthly/human existence appear worthless can be found sexual love, pregnancy and birth.
> http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/so.../Part-2-01.htm



I was more interested in the fact that Avalokiteshvaras portrait displayed the feminine traits. The androgyny or hermaphrodite is pervasive in Greek mythology.

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## paulanderson114

Awesome, I haven't seen ever before like this collection under one place, I was just scrolling my mouse to see where is the end of this page. I like this thread. Interesting indeed to watch as well as read. Nice one.

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## ftil

> Awesome, I haven't seen ever before like this collection under one place, I was just scrolling my mouse to see where is the end of this page. I like this thread. Interesting indeed to watch as well as read. Nice one.


LOL! I hear you.but I love art so much so that I couldnt resist posting the paintings Can you image how this tread would look like if I knew all painters?  :Ihih: 

I have found more entertaining and pleasurable to learn about mythology and religion using art than a dry reading.

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## Paulclem

> I went back to your post and to do more reading.
> On website you have posted it is said that in the the Gelukpa order of Tibetan Buddhism manifestation Mahakala is considered to be the fierce and powerful emanation of Avalokiteshvara, the bodhisattva of compassion.
> 
> But Avalokitasvara has 33 different manifestations, including female manifestations, all to suit the minds of various beings. These are found in the Lotus Sūtra chapter 25.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avalokite%C5%9Bvara
> 
> It is more complex if we consider that we have Hinayana Buddhism, Mahayana Buddhism, and Tantric Buddhism. The author was talking about tantric doctrine.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks - you brought the link forward. I hadn't seen that you had done this when I was replying to you on the other thread. 

Avalokitasvara has 33 different manifestations

Yes true, but then I didn't say otherwise. My point was that Avolokitesvara is not Yama the Lord of death and rules over the hells. It was actually this that alerted my suspicions about the book/site. It is such a basic mistake - if that is what it is - that I looked further into it. I concluded that it was not a mistake, but an intentional detail. 

What is difficult is that the wrathful forms of Buddhas like Mahakala are still motivated by compassion for all living beings. It's just that it is a different expression of compassion. In the pictures of hells, you see the wrathful forms - scary and powerful, but appropriate to a realm where beings are reborn due to the execution of hateful karma. You need a different aspect to deal with such situations and beings. 

In terms of personal practice, the wrathful forms make use of those negative aspects of the human and turn them into the path. 

It is more complex if we consider that we have Hinayana Buddhism, Mahayana Buddhism, and Tantric Buddhism. The author was talking about tantric doctrine.

I won't repeat what I put about this. Just to add that a Buddha is motivated by compassion - Bodhicitta - an endless wish to liberate all beings from suffering by whatever skillful means at their disposal. This includes the Wrathful manifestations. The quote 

In the face of this splendor of light it is all too easy to forget that Avalokiteshvara also has his shady side.

makes no sense in the light of a Buddha's boundless compassion. Buddhas don't have shady sides, though to a person who is familiar with Christian iconography, but no Buddhist knowledge, it is easy to assume so as they appear to be Demons. The original Christian Missionaries to Lhasa thought that the Tibetans were Demon worshippers. It makes sense given their own views, but it betrays a complete misunderstanding of Buddhist iconography. The site does this too, though I don't think the motives are so innocent. 

I was more interested in the fact that Avalokiteshvaras portrait displayed the feminine traits. The androgyny or hermaphrodite is pervasive in Greek mythology.

The Chinese version of Avolokiteshvara is Quan Yin - a female. 

I'll have another look at the book and see what I can find.

I have to say that it is difficult for me to read this site - it is so vehemently anti-Tibetan Buddhist. The most disturbing thing about it is the almost truths it is peddling, and the horrible implications.

Therefore Dharma is of the shape of a zero; and as the sun is also of the shape of a zero, Dharma is identified with the sun. Moreover, Dharma moves in the void, and void is the sky, and the sun moves in the sky and hence the sun is Dharma

The zero shape is associated with Emptiness, but this has nothing to do with a sun cult. The sun itself is subject to Emptiness and has no inherent existence. The sun is often used as an analogy for the Dharma, as has been said, but the analogy is intended to convey the positive nature of, and non-discriminating nature of the Dharma.

The column of fire is both a symbol for the axis of the world and for the human spine up which the Kundalini ascends. It further has a clear phallic character.

I have seen Kundalini referred to in Hindu texts but not Buddhist. It is not a phallic symbol in the Buddhist texts, but represents the channels through which the inner winds flow. The phallic image is associated with Hindu iconography.

This close relation of the Buddha figure to fire has induced such discriminating authors as the Indian religious studies scholar, Ananda Coomaraswamy, to see in Shakyamuni an incarnation of Agni, the Indian god of fire (Coomaraswamy, 1979, p. 65).

We can criticise this quote by Ananda Coomaraswamybecause he is combining Hinduism and equating it with Buddhism. From a brief reading of his biography, I suspect that his understanding of art and iconography - whilst being sincere, was not informed by insights into practice. Incidentally, he may havebeen influenced by the assertions of Hindus that Buddhism is merely a branch of Hinduism, which it is not.

It is the all-consuming, flaming power, the inner blaze which overwhelms everything, which has filled the religious life of the people in its thrall since the awakening of Indian thought: the power of the Tapas ... Here, Tapas is the creative principle, which functions in both the material and the spiritual [domains] ... It is 'enthusiasm', in its most lowly form a straw fire fed by blind emotion, in its highest, the flame of inspiration nourished by unmediated perception. Both have the nature of fire (Govinda, 1991, p. 188). With this citation Govinda leaves us with no doubt that Tantric Buddhism represents a universal fire cult. [1]

This is a very misleading paragraph. 

It is 'enthusiasm', in its most lowly form a straw fire fed by blind emotion, in its highest, the flame of inspiration nourished by unmediated perception. Both have the nature of fire

This refers directly to the utilisation of negative emotions - anger etc - by the Tantric Practitioner via the inner winds. It is a misinterpretation and has nothing to do with a fire cult.

the Fourteenth Dalai Lama writes in a commentary upon the Kalachakra Tantra, practitioners of which especially should keep the pledge of restraining from, or abandoning, the bliss of emission, even though making use of a consort

Again, this is a quotation ut of context. Tantric Practice does involve a consort - but not a physical one. This is where the misapprehension of the meaning has arisen in modern references to tantra. It is part of a meditational practice, but the quote, taken out of context as it is, implies that it woud be a physical one.

After their deaths, upright Buddhists are reborn here from out of a lotus flower. They all move through this hereafter in a golden body. Women, however, are unwelcome. If they have earned great merit during their earthly existence, then they are granted the right to change their sex and they are permitted to enter Amitabhas land after they have been incarnated as men.

There cetainly has been a patriarchal attitude to women in Buddhism, but there is a female Buddha - Tara, who is revered by Tibetans. The Buddha also established Nuns, though cultural norms often intrude upon how males and females are regarded.

In the light of his qualities as fire god, lord of the West, and patron of science, Amitabha could indeed be regarded as the regent of our modern age, then the last two hundred years of western civilization and technological development have been predominantly dominated by the element of fire: electricity, light, explosions, and the modern art of war count as part of this just as much as the greenhouse effect and worldwide desertification. The great inventions  the steam engine, dynamite, the automobile, the airplane, rockets, and finally the atomic bomb  are also the handiwork of fire. The fiery element rules the world as never before in history.

This is a scandalous paragraph. It seems to imply that Amitabha - Buddha of Light's influence has resulted in all the faults of this and the last century. Buddhas don't rule the world, but are dedicated to the relief of beings in it. You remember you said there are consequences for peddling untruths? Tell the author of this.

I haven't finished page one of this. Can you see why I take issue with this book?

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## ftil

I want to keep this tread as it was my original purpose to open it. I have moved art from Ovid and Metamorphosis tread that was a discussion tread not to have .... discussion tread.  :Wink5:  One of the reasons for doing it is the fact that mythology and religion is a huge subject and I dont think that I will ever be comfortable to discuss it. Scholars who studied that subject in depth pointed out many contradictions depending what historian they take into consideration. For example, some historians believed that Venus was born in sea-foam from the castrated genitals of the sky-god Uranus whereas others believed that she was born out of egg. Similarly, Eros was a son of Venus in one myth in another a son of Iris. 
I am more interested in finding the common themes or archetypes in all religions. Joseph Campbell who spent his entire career came to that conclusion. I have come to the same conclusion and I want it to be a focus of my explorations.

Secondly, I don't like influence people what I think. I prefer to ask questions than to look for the answer since when we accept a belief we close our minds for alternative explanations.

Finally, I have asked the moderators on Picture/Images How to tread to clarify about posting art. Some members interpreted the new rules as not posting art on the discussion treads. They continue posting art but I prefer to wait for the clarification. 
My intentions was not to have a discussion tread and it would be sad this tread to end.  :Cryin:

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## Paulclem

I posted my comments above with sincerity. I hope you take them in that spirit, though I'm not asking you to agree with them, just consider them.

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## ftil

> I posted my comments above with sincerity. I hope you take them in that spirit, though I'm not asking you to agree with them, just consider them.


I appreciate your effort to answer it. It was a purpose of this tread to bring information so that if somebody is interested he or she may explore it further. If people are interested in Buddhism they may also look at references based on which the book was written, and perhaps, read some of the work to make own conclusions. Therefore, I always post a link.

----------


## cacian

I have always wondered at the way mythology and gods are portrayed in pictures.
My question is:

why are all gods/goddesses/angels are portrayed naked/without clothes on?

----------


## cafolini

> I have always wondered at the way mythology and gods are portrayed in pictures.
> My question is:
> 
> why are all gods/goddesses/angels are portrayed naked/without clothes on?


Epicurus would probably say that it is because people want to make sure that they have no dirty body.

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## Varenne Rodin

I love those lions by Rubens, stlukesguild! Amazing. Thank you for posting that.

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## cacian

> Epicurus would probably say that it is because people want to make sure that they have no dirty body.


Good thinking there cafolini.

----------


## ftil

Hm……..I was alone here for a long time…….all of sudden this tread attracted members who have never been here.  :Brow: 

I guess you have missed my post. For your convenience, I re- post it. Please respect it. 
If you have suddenly awakened interest in mythology, there is a discussion tread with art called *Poetry Discussion Group: Ovid's Metamorposes* 

http://www.online-literature.com/for...ad.php?t=62195





> I want to keep this tread as it was my original purpose to open it. *I have moved art from Ovid and Metamorphosis tread that was a discussion tread not to have .... discussion tread.* One of the reasons for doing it is the fact that mythology and religion is a huge subject and I don’t think that I will ever be comfortable to discuss it. Scholars who studied that subject in depth pointed out many contradictions depending what historian they take into consideration. For example, some historians believed that Venus was born in sea-foam from the castrated genitals of the sky-god Uranus whereas others believed that she was born out of egg. Similarly, Eros was a son of Venus in one myth in another a son of Iris.
> I am more interested in finding the common themes or archetypes in all religions. Joseph Campbell who spent his entire career came to that conclusion. I have come to the same conclusion and I want it to be a focus of my explorations.
> 
> Secondly, I don't like influence people what I think. I prefer to ask questions than to look for the answer since when we accept a belief we close our minds for alternative explanations.
> 
> Finally, I have asked the moderators on Picture/Images How to tread to clarify about posting art. Some members interpreted the new rules as not posting art on the discussion treads. They continue posting art but I prefer to wait for the clarification.
> *My intentions was not to have a discussion tread* and it would be sad this tread to end.

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## cafolini

They did not transact with the flesh. So they needed no clothes to undo.

----------


## billl

LitNet has a free blogging feature, which might be better if discussion isn't wanted.

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## ftil

Oh, Cafolini I have just asked politely to respect that it is not a discussion.
tread. Is that difficult to respect others wishes? This tread attracted a number of visitors. You not only don't respect my request....  :Yikes:  

Or you do your best ...to kill this tread.  :Reddevil: 


*Without feelings of respect, what is there to distinguish men from beasts?
Confucius* 

Just for you.  :Biggrin: 




> Hm..I was alone here for a long time.all of sudden this tread attracted members who have never been here. 
> 
> I guess you have missed my post. For your convenience, I re- post it. Please respect it. 
> If you have suddenly awakened interest in mythology, there is a discussion tread with art called *Poetry Discussion Group: Ovid's Metamorposes* 
> 
> http://www.online-literature.com/for...ad.php?t=62195
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Let's go back to mythology and religion.




> Ardhanarishvara, is a composite androgynous form of the Hindu god Shiva and his consort Parvati (also known as Devi, Shakti and Uma in this icon). Ardhanarishvara is depicted as half male and half female, split down the middle. The right half is usually the male Shiva, illustrating his traditional attributes.
> 
> The origin of Ardhanarishvara lies in hermaphrodite figures in ancient Hindu and Greek cultures. The earliest Ardhanarishvara images are dated to the Kushan period, starting from the first century CE. Its iconography evolved and was perfected in the Gupta era. The Puranas and various iconographic treatises write about the mythology and iconography of Ardhanarishvara. While Ardhanarishvara remains a popular iconographic form found in most Shiva temples throughout India, very few temples are dedicated to this deity.
> The conception of Ardhanarishvara may have been inspired by Vedic literature's composite figure of Yama-Yami, the Vedic descriptions of the primordial Creator Vishvarupa or Prajapati and the fire-god Agni as "bull who is also a cow," the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad's Atman ("soul") in the form of the androgynous cosmic man Purusha[7][10] and the androgynous myths of the Greek Hermaphroditus and Phrygian Agdistis.
> 
> The concept of Ardhanarishvara originated in Kushan and Greek cultures simultaneously; the iconography evolved in the Kushan era (30375 CE), but was perfected in the Gupta era (320-600 CE). A mid-first century Kushan era stela in the Mathura Museum has a half-male, half-female image, along with three other figures identified with Vishnu, Gaja Lakshmi and Kubera.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardhanarishvara




Interestingly enough, Benjamin Walker in his book Gnosticism Its History and Influence cited a scholar who found Gnostic influences upon Hindu and Buddhist religion. I have to go back to Walkers book to find the reference. It would be interesting to learn about how Gnosticism influenced Eastern religions. 

I will have to explore further when the concept of androgyny began in Greek mythology.

----------


## ftil

Yesterday, I learned that members can only post images in original size on game treads. On other treads, however, we can only post a "thumbnail" size. Interestingly enough, I could post images from internet but I cant do it today as I have tried to post art on another forum. The only option left to continue this tread is to post a link with an image. Very strange things are happening. I may start believing in ghostsor demons. LOL!




> During the 16th century, it was believed that each demon had more strength to accomplish his mission during a special month of the year. In this way, he and his assistants' powers would work better during that month.
> Belial in January
> Leviathan in February
> Satan in March
> Belphegor in April
> Lucifer in May
> Berith in June
> Beelzebub in July
> Astaroth in August
> ...


*An 18th century illustration of the Canaanite deity Moloch*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Moloch_the_god.gif


Or, Bifrons? He teaches arts......I guess it must be Bifrons.  :Devil: 





> In demonology, Bifrons was a demon, Earl of Hell, with six legions of demons (twenty-six for other authors) under his command. He teaches sciences and arts, the virtues of the gems and woods, herbs, and changes corpses from their original grave into other places, sometimes putting magick lights on the graves that seem candles. He appears as a monster, but then changes his shape into that of a man.
> The origin of the name is the Roman god Janus (mythology) (Janus).
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janus_(mythology)



* Bust of the god Janus, Vatican museum, Vatican City.*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Janus-Vatican.JPG

----------


## ftil

I have seen From darkness to light: The Mystery religions of Ancient Greece by Joseph Campbell. He said that the pine cone in Vatican was removed from Roman Field of god Mars. The Campus Martius (Latin for the "Field of Mars", Italian Campo Marzio). 




> Pigna is the name of rione IX of Rome. The name means "pine cone" in Italian, and the symbol for the rione is *the colossal bronze pine cone, the Pigna, which decorated a fountain in Ancient Rome next to a vast Temple of Isis.* There water flowed copiously from the top of the pinecone. The Pigna was moved first to the old basilica of St. Peter's, where Dante saw it and employed it in the Commedia as a simile for the giant proportions of the face of Nimrod. In the 15th century it was moved to its current location, the upper end of Bramante's Cortile del Belvedere, which is now usually called in its honour the Cortile della Pigna, linking the Vatican and the Palazzo del Belvedere.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigna_%28rione_of_Rome%29


*The Pigna in Cortile Belvedere, Vatican*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Co...e_mountain.jpg



So, pine cone was located next to the temple of Egyptian Isis. However, I have found that it was a temple of both Isis and Serapis.




> Serapis was an anthropomorphic god created by the Greek pharaoh Ptolemy I. Ptolemy I chose Serapis to be the official god of Egypt and Greece. He hoped a common religious base would unify the two peoples and ease tension in the country. Serapis' attributes were both Egyptian and Hellenistic. Serapis became very popular and his cult quickly spread from its center in Alexandria.
> A Roman historian insisted that the god was originally from Asia Minor. However, Egypt probably provided the essential attributes of Serapis. Serapis' Egyptian nature can be seen in his roots, which were drawn from the cults of Osiris and the Apis bull. These cults had been combined prior to the reign of Ptolemy I. At that time, a sacred bull of Memphis called Osorapis was worshipped after its death. Osorapis was an agricultural god whose cult emphasized the Egyptian principles of life after death. The early Greek pharaohs seemed to have been drawn to Osorapis as a god who seemed to fuse the myriad of Egyptian deities and possessed aspects that were easily fusible with the gods of the Greeks.
> http://www.egyptianmyths.net/serapis.htm


*The Hellenistic-Egyptian god Serapis and his attributes.
*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Se...ellenistic.jpg




> With his (i.e. Osiris's) wife Isis, and their son Horus (in the form of Harpocrates), Serapis won an important place in the Greek world, reaching Ancient Rome, with Anubis being identified as Cerberus. In Rome, Serapis was worshiped in the Iseum Campense, the sanctuary of the goddess Isis located in the Campus Martius and built during the Second Triumvirate.
> According to Plutarch, Ptolemy stole the cult statue from Sinope, having been instructed in a dream by the "unknown god" to bring the statue to Alexandria, where the statue was pronounced to be Serapis by two religious experts. One of the experts was of the Eumolpidae, the ancient family from whose members the hierophant of the Eleusinian Mysteries had been chosen since before history, and the other was the scholarly Egyptian priest Manetho, which gave weight to the judgement both for the Egyptians and the Greeks.
> Plutarch may not be correct, however, as some Egyptologists allege that the Sinope in the tale is really the hill of Sinopeion, a name given to the site of the already existing Serapeum at Memphis. Also, according to Tacitus, Serapis (i.e., Apis explicitly identified as Osiris in full) had been the god of the village of Rhakotis before it expanded into the great capital of Alexandria.
> Serapis with a basket/grain-measure, on his head, a Greek symbol for the land of the dead
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kopf_des_Serapis.jpg





Interestingly enough, I have found a pine cone in the basket of Cybele. I talked about Cybele and her connections with Dionysus. 





> Cybele) was the great Phrygian Mother of the Gods, a primal nature goddess worshipped with orgiastic rites in the mountains of central and western Anatolia. The Greeks closely identified her with their own mother of the gods, the goddess Rhea.
> http://www.theoi.com/Phrygios/Kybele.html


*Cybele*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...7.AA.19_n2.jpg


*Detail Cybele with basket and pine cone*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...7.AA.19_n4.jpg


I have also found that pine cone was a talisman.





> The Pine Cone, the symbol of Cybele the goddess of abundant benefits, was worn by her votaries for Health, Wealth, and Power, and all good and necessary things which flow in abundance without ceasing from her influence. She had many names, and was called by the Greeks, Pasithea, signifying Mother, as she was the great mother of all the gods. Her priests were famous for their magical powers, and it was customary to fix her symbol, the Pine Cone, on a pole in the vineyards, to protect them from blight and witchcraft, a practice still to be seen in Italy at the present time, and presumably this was the origin of the Pine Cones which surmount the gateways at the entrances of some of the carriage drives of old country seats (see Illustration No. 117, Plate VIII); it also survives as an ornament to the spikes of iron railings enclosing the grounds of old-fashioned houses on the outskirts of many of our provincial towns.
> 	http://chestofbooks.com/new-age/spir...And-Roman.html




In Joseph Campbell s interpretation the pine cone is not important but the seeds of pine cone as seeds represent consciousness. He argued that New Adam is realized after the old Adam died. I dont agree with his interpretation considering the fact that pine cone has been found in ancient world from India to North America as I have posted. Those ancient gods were blood thirsty, demanding human and animal sacrifices that is documented in all religions. They didnt care about New Adam. LOL!

Well, we can make own interpretations.

----------


## ftil

Lets go back to my previous post.

I havent noticed before on Entruscan, Greek and Oriental talismans a talisman no 118 and no 106. Interestingly enough, this link doesn't work here but if you copy and paste a link on Google you will find it.

http://chestofbooks.com/new-age/spir...And-Roman.html

Lets start with no 118 horn of plenty 




> The cornucopia (in Latin also cornu copiae) or horn of plenty is a symbol of abundance and nourishment, commonly a large horn-shaped container overflowing with produce.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornucopia


Cornucopia  horn of plenty

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo...thago_Nova.jpg

We can find horn of plenty as a symbol of goddess Fortuna. 




> Fortuna ( Greek Tyche) was widely worshipped as the guardian spirit of a city's good fortune. TYCHE was the goddess or spirit of fortune, chance, providence and fate. She was usually honoured in a more favourable light as Eutykhia, goddess of good fortune, luck, success and prosperity. As such she was usually depicted crowned with the turrets of a city-wall and holding a cornucopia (horn of plenty) brimming with the fruits of the earth. 
> In most of her representations she is barely distinguishable from Demeter: the crown, cornucopia and Ploutos-child being common attributes of both goddesses. Indeed Tyche (Lady Fortune) often appears to be merely an aspect of the goddess Demeter.
> http://www.theoi.com/Cult/TykheCult.html


Demeter (or perhaps Tyche) with turrent crown, plough-shaft, and a corncopia (horn of plenty) brimming with fruit. And pine cone.

http://www.theoi.com/image/S3.2Demeter.jpg

We can find horn of plenty with pine cone with Isis son, Harpocrates.

2nd century statuette of the Hellenistic god Harpocrates, son of Isis, in Dion's Archaeological Museum

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...s_Dion649a.jpg

We can find horn of plenty with pine cone and fleur de lis on Coat of arms of Pope Innocent X Pamphilj, from the Fontana dei Quattro Fiumi (1651) in Rome

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...X_Pamphilj.jpg

And at Sistine chapel

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ignudo_03.jpg


Hades, god underworld has it too.
http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil:NAM...Cornucopia.JPG

Pine cone can be found with Nisroch. 


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nisroch.gif




> Nisroch is the Assyrian god of agriculture,[verification needed] in whose temple Sennacherib was worshipping when he was assassinated (2 Kings 19:37; Isa. 37:38). Josephus calls him Dagon.
> According to the etymology, the name would signify eagle.[verification needed] Among the ancient Arabs, also, the eagle occurs as an idol.
> 
> His identification as a god in Mesopotamia is unclear. Some suggest he could be the same as Nusku.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nisroch



Lets look at talisman no 106.

http://chestofbooks.com/new-age/spir...And-Roman.html

This reminds me about Aztec calendar you can see at post no 36. What Entruscan, Greek and Oriental talismans has to do with Aztecs?  :Biggrinjester: 

http://www.online-literature.com/for...t=62728&page=3

----------


## ftil

Lets look again at* Etruscan, Greek, and Roman talismans*. I havent noticed that a caduceus has a pine cone located on the top. I have noticed the pine cone on many sculptures of caduceus but not on a talisman.




> A talisman (from Arabic طلسم Tilasm, ultimately from Greek telesma or from the Greek word "telein" which means "to initiate into the mysteries") is an amulet or other object considered to possess supernatural or magical powers.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talisman


Lets start with the caduceus.




> The Gnostics had great faith in the efficacy of sacred names and sigils when engraved on stones as Talismans; also in magical symbols derived principally from the Cabala.
> 
> The origin of Talismans and Amulets is lost in the obscurity of the ages, In the writing of the philosophers and Alchemists of the Middle Ages directions are given that these Talismans should be made, or commenced, under favorable aspects, so that the Work may receive the vitalizing rays proceeding from the planet represented.
> 
> From The Evil Eye, by Frederick Thomas Elworthy





> The Caduceus, The Wand Of Mercury (Illustration No. 105, Plate VIII), was considered an extremely efficient Talisman, being worn to render its possessor wise and persuasive, to attract Health and Youthfulness, as well as to protect from the Evil Eye.
> In its composition the Pine Cone, which surmounts the staff, was credited with great health-giving powers; is a symbol of Apollo, or the Sun; the wings are emblematic of the flight of thoughts in the minds of men, the two serpents in amity signifying love prototypes of Aescu-lapius and Hygiea who influence the health-giving attributes of the Sun and Moon respectively, both deities being associated with serpents because by their aid maladies are sloughed off and vigour renewed, just as serpents were believed to renew their lives each year by casting their skins.
> http://chestofbooks.com/new-age/spir...And-Roman.html


According to the author, pine cone is a symbol of Apollo or the Sun. It is another explanation and different explanation than of Joseph Campbell. It is really a symbol of Apollo? 




> He was depicted as a handsome, beardless youth with long hair and various attributes including:--a wreath and branch of laurel; bow and quiver; raven; and lyre.
> http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Apollon.html


Apollo was depicted with a snake.

*Apollo rests his arm on a pillar coiled with a snake. Louvre.*

http://www.theoi.com/Gallery/S5.5.html 


*Apollo Belvedere statue in Museo Pio-Clementino.*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...elvedere_5.jpg

I have found only found a pine cone and Apollo at: *Apollo, Poetry and Music by Aimé Millet (ca. 18601869), viewed from the boulevard de l'Opéra. Roof of the Palais Garnier, Paris.*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...Garnier_n3.jpg


http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...9_Millet_1.jpg




> In the British Museum may be seen a life-sized hand in bronze in the form assumed in the Benediction of the Christian Church, the third and fourth fingers being closed, with thumb and first two fingers extended; this form has its efficacy as a Talisman against the Evil Eye increased by numerous other symbols (already dealt with), a pine cone being balanced on the finger-tips, a serpent running along the whole length of the back of the hand and towering above the third finger; and, amongst others, the *Asp, Lizard, Caduceus, Frog, and Scales* may be seen, all probably connected with the worship of Isis and Serapis. This form, known as Mano Pantea, and the life-sized hands were kept in the house as Talismans to protect it against every evil influence of magic and of the Evil Eye, whilst small replicas were worn as Amulets for personal protection.
> http://chestofbooks.com/new-age/spir...And-Roman.html


*Mano Pantea*

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/mano-pantea


We have seen a bronze hand used in the worship of Sabazios (British Museum). Roman 1st-2nd century CE. Post # 107

http://www.online-literature.com/for...t=62728&page=8


*Pompei, Mano Pantea*

http://www.archart.us/galleries/exhi...e-msanm22.html




> *The Lizard* And The Tortoise were symbols of Mercury, and the Caduceus is frequently depicted placed between them on ancient Talismans. The Lizard is also to be found engraved on many of the old Roman rings, and was used as charm against weak eyesight, the brilliant green of its body, like the Emerald, causing it to be held in high esteem, both spiritually and physically.
> http://chestofbooks.com/new-age/spir...And-Roman.html


*Apollo rests his arm on a pillar with a lizard. Date: C1st - C2nd AD, Louvre*

http://www.theoi.com/Gallery/S5.2.html




> The Spider, like the Lizard, was sacred to Mercury and was considered a most fortunate symbol engraved on precious stones, its remarkable quickness of sight recommending it as a Talisman for shrewdness in business matters and foresight generally; and according to an old writer, prognostications were made from the manner of weaving spiders' webs, and it was deemed a sign that a man would receive money if a little spider fell upon his clothes. http://chestofbooks.com/new-age/spir...And-Roman.html



Lets look at spider structure by Louise Joséphine Bourgeois.





> Louise Joséphine Bourgeois (French pronunciation: 25 December 1911  31 May 2010), was a renowned French-American artist and sculptor, best known for her contributions to both modern and contemporary art, and for her spider structures, titled Maman.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Bourgeois



*Spider. Guggenheim Museum, Bilbao*

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...%2C_Bilbao.JPG

*Ottawa*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NGC_Maman.JPG

*Notre Dame Cathedral in Ottawa*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...an_July_05.jpg

*Cast of the bronze spider sculpture "Maman" by Louise Bourgeois, Bundesplatz, Bern, Switzerland. In the background, the Swiss Parliament Building.*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...platz_Bern.jpg


*Geneva*
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...PICT3813BW.JPG

*Geneva*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...2_PICT3793.JPG

*Paris*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi..._Tuileries.jpg

Lets look at other talismans.

We have Anubis talisman. (# 107)




> Anubis is symbolized as a Jackal-headed god who, in the Egyptian religion, is depicted in the Judgment as weighing the souls of the dead; he is the Guardian of Souls in the under-world.
> http://chestofbooks.com/new-age/spir...And-Roman.html


Another mystery resolved as we have seen a big statue of Anubis post # 98.




> The big statue, 26 tons of jackal-headed deity, will spend the winter in Landmark Plaza, next to Landmark Center and Rice Park. The statue also was displayed before the exhibit's opening in Atlanta, New York City, London, Toronto and Vienna.
> http://www.minnpost.com/politicalage...ian_god_anubis


http://www.online-literature.com/for...t=62728&page=7

A nice connection: Anubis - Hermanubis, caduceus..and a pine cone.  :FRlol:

----------


## ftil

Lets go back to ETRUSCAN, GREEK, ROMAN, AND ORIENTAL TALISMANS




> The symbol of the Bull's Head (see Illustration No. 108, Plate VIII) was commonly worn as earrings, for success in love and friendship, and as the god of Hades could lengthen or shorten men's lives as he thought fit, the Bull's Head was also worn by men for Strength and Long Life.


My oh my.even bull head is a talisman. We have Egyptian goddess Hathor as a cow.

*Hathor with sacred eye in papyrus.*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ha...in_papyrus.JPG


We have in Egyptian mythology, Apis or Hapis (alternatively spelled Hapi-ankh), was a bull-deity worshipped in the Memphis region.





> Apis was the most important of all the sacred animals in Egypt, and, as with the others, its importance increased as time went on. Greek and Roman authors have much to say about Apis, the marks by which the black bull-calf was recognized, the manner of his conception by a ray from heaven, his house at Memphis with court for disporting himself, the mode of prognostication from his actions, the mourning at his death, his costly burial, and the rejoicings throughout the country when a new Apis was found.
> Mariette's excavation of the Serapeum at Memphis revealed the tombs of over sixty animals, ranging from the time of Amenophis III to that of Ptolemy Alexander. At first each animal was buried in a separate tomb with a chapel built above it. Khamuis, the priestly son of Ramesses II (c. 1300 B.C.), excavated a great gallery to be lined with the tomb chambers; another similar gallery was added by Psammetichus I.
> 
> The cult of the Apis bull started at the very beginning of Egyptian history, probably as a fertility god connected to grain and the herds. In a funerary context, the Apis was a protector of the deceased, and linked to the pharaoh. This animal was chosen because it symbolized the kings courageous heart, great strength, virility, and fighting spirit. The Apis bull was considered to be a manifestation of the pharaoh, as bulls were symbols of strength and fertility, qualities which are closely linked with kingship ("strong bull of his mother Hathor" was a common title for gods and pharaohs).
> 
> Occasionally, the Apis bull was pictured with her sun-disk between his horns, being one of few deities associated with her symbol.
> When Osiris absorbed the identity of Ptah, becoming Ptah-Seker-Osiris, the Apis bull became considered an aspect of Osiris rather than Ptah. Since Osiris was lord of the dead, the Apis then became known as the living deceased one. As he now represented Osiris, when the Apis bull reached the age of twenty-eight, the age when Osiris was said to have been killed by Set, symbolic of the lunar month, and the new moon, the bull was put to death with a great sacrificial ceremony.
> 
> There is evidence that parts of the body of the Apis bull were eaten by the pharaoh and the priests to absorb the Apis's great strength. Sometimes the body of the bull was mummified and fixed in a standing position on a foundation made of wooden planks. Bulls' horns embellish some of the tombs of ancient pharaohs, and the Apis bull was often depicted on private coffins as a powerful protector. As a form of Osiris, lord of the dead, it was believed that to be under the protection of the Apis bull would give the person control over the four winds in the afterlife.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apis_%28god%29



*The sacred Apis bull shown on a Twenty-first dynasty Egyptian coffin.*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi..._on_coffin.jpg

*Statue of Apis, 30th Dynasty, Louvre*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lo...s-p1020068.jpg

*The Myth of the Bull Apis Fresco Borgia Apartments, Hall of the Saints*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...rtment_010.jpg


*Stele dedicated by the doorman of Horudja temple to the God-bull Apis. We see winged sun disk- symbol of Horus.*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...7-mp3h8842.jpg





> The Greeks had little respect for animal-headed figures, and so a Greek statue was chosen as the idol, and proclaimed as anthropomorphic equivalent of the highly popular Apis. It was named Aser-hapi (i.e. Osiris-Apis), which became Serapis, and was said to be Osiris in full, rather than just his Ka.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apis_%28god%29


*Bust of the Hellenistic-Egyptian god Serapis, Roman copy of an original by Bryaxis which stood at the Serapeion of Alexandria, Vatican Museums*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Se..._Inv689_n2.jpg

We have seen Zeus as a bull, St. Luke also has a bull. 


Lets look at Crescent Moon tlalisman.




> The most common *symbol of Isis was a Crescent Moon*, which was worn by Roman women upon their shoes as a safeguard from witchcraft and to prevent the evil spirits of the moon from afflicting them with delusions, hysteria, or lunacy; also to attract the good-will of Isis that they might be successful in love, happy in motherhood, and fortunate in life. From this Crescent symbol (Illustration No. 113, Plate VIII) the Horseshoe undoubtedly became regarded as a Talisman, and as such was used by the Greeks and Romans, who nailed it with the horns upward as a charm against the Plague.


*Jewel by the name of king Osorkon II, featuring the family of Osiris
874 - 850 BCE (22nd dynasty) (Isis right) Louvre*

http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...20090702200647

*Isis breast feeding Horus*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...JPG?uselang=pl


http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...png?uselang=pl

We have goddess Astrate depicted with crescent moon. 




> Astarte's name was first recorded about 1478 BC, but her cult was firmly established by then. The cult spread westward from Phoenicia into Greece, Rome, and as far as the British Isles.* Prophets of the Old Testament condemned her worship because it included sexual rituals, and sacrifices of firstborn children and newborn animals to her.*
> 
> Her other counterparts are *Isis, Hathor of Egypt, Kali of India, and Aphrodite and Demeter of Greece.*
> http://www.themystica.com/mythical-f...s/astarte.html


*Astrate*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:St...re_AO20127.jpg


*Tanit was a Phoenician lunar goddess. Stele with Tanit's symbol in Carthage's Tophet, including a crescent moon over the figure
*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tophet_Carthage.2.jpg

We have seen goddess Diana and goddess of Hecate depicted with Crescent Moon.


But we also have Virgin of Guadalupe depicted with Crescent Moon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vi...guadalupe1.jpg


http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...aGpe.Repro.jpg






> *THE FISH Talisman* (Illustrations Nos. 96, 97, Plate VII) is a symbol of Hathor (who controlled the rising of the Nile), as well as an Amulet under the influence of Isis and Horus. It typified the primeval Creative principle and was worn for domestic felicity, Abundance, and general Prosperity.






> *Hellenistic religion*
> 
> Magic was practiced widely, and these too, were a continuation from earlier times. Throughout the Hellenistic world, people would consult oracles, and use charms and figurines to deter misfortune or to cast spells. Also developed in this era was the complex system of astrology, which sought to determine a person's character and future in the movements of the sun, moon, and planets. The systems of Hellenistic philosophy, such as Stoicism and Epicureanism, offered an alternative to traditional religion, even if their impact was largely limited to the educated elite.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenistic_religion






> By the late Egyptian historical period, after the occupations by the Greeks and the Romans, *Isis became the most important and most powerful deity of the Egyptian pantheon because of her magical skills*. Magic is central to the entire mythology of Isis, arguably more so than any other Egyptian deity.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isis
> In 1888, the Isis-Urania Temple was founded in London, where the rituals decoded from the cipher manuscripts were developed and practiced. We have connection with Crowley. 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeti...he_Golden_Dawn







> Kemetic Wicca is a variation of Gardnerian Wicca that follows an Egyptian pantheon. SomeKemetic groups focus on the trinity of Isis, Orsiris and Horus and utilize prayers and spells found the ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead.
> http://paganwiccan.about.com/od/gods...ses/p/Isis.htm






> Today she is the second name in an energy chant sometimes used in Wicca: "Isis, Astarte, Diana, Hecate, Demeter, Kali, Inanna."
> http://www.egyptiandreams.co.uk/astarte.php





> *Neopaganism*
> 
> In 1933, the Egyptologist Margaret Murray published the book, The God of the Witches, in which she theorised that Pan was merely one form of a horned god who was worshipped across Europe by a witch-cult.[38] This theory influenced the Neopagannotion of the Horned God, as an archetype of male virility and sexuality. In Wicca, the archetype of the Horned God is highly important, as represented by such deities as the Celtic Cernunnos, Indian Pashupati and Greek Pan.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_%28god%29

----------


## ftil

Let's look again at rainbow symbolism.

Post # 119
http://www.online-literature.com/for...t=62728&page=8

*Reconstruction of the banner of the Inca emperors.*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ba...nca_Empire.svg


Inca State, founded in the twelfth century , was expanded in a vast empire in less than 200 years before the discovery of America by Europeans. State of the Incas, the Kingdom of the Incas, the Inca Empire ( Empire of the Four Parts, Part Four States - see the map of administrative division) - the historical state in the western part of South America , during its heyday covering the areas of present-day Peru , Ecuador and part of Bolivia , Chile , Colombia and Argentina.



Lets look at L. Frank Baum, the author of Wizard of Oz. 




> Later, he and his wife, encouraged by Matilda Joslyn Gage, became Theosophists, in 1897. He wrote 17 of Oz books. One is titled The Emerld city of Oz. 
> In 1900, Baum and Denslow (with whom he shared the copyright) published The Wonderful Wizard of Oz to much critical acclaim and financial success.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Frank_Baum


It reminds me The Emerald tablets of Hermes.




> The Emerald Tablet, also known as Smaragdine Table, Tabula Smaragdina, or The Secret of Hermes, is a text purporting to reveal the secret of the primordial substance and its transmutations. It claims to be the work of Hermes Trismegistus ("Hermes the Thrice-Greatest"), a legendary Hellenistic[1] combination of the Greek god Hermes and the Egyptian god Thoth.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Tablet



We also have Order of the Rainbow Girls.





> *Order of the Rainbow Girls* - Founded in 1922 , the American organization associated with Freemasonry . It brings together girls aged 11-20 years that are usually daughters of Freemasons. Local groups were generally supported and sponsored by local Masonic lodge . The symbol of the Order is a rainbow 
> 
> The order came into existence in 1922,[1] when the Reverend W. Mark Sexson, a Freemason, was asked to make an address before South McAlester Chapter #149, Order of the Eastern Star, in McAlester, Oklahoma. As the Order of DeMolay had come under his close study during his Masonic activities, he suggested that a similar order for girls would be beneficial. The first Initiation consisted of a class of 171 girls on April 6, 1922, in the auditorium of the Scottish Rite Temple in McAlester. The original name was "Order of the Rainbow for Girls".[2
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...nbow_for_Girls




*Franz von Stuck* *The angel of the court*
http://www.canvaz.com/gallery/14002.htm



*Evelyn Pickering De Morgan : Death of a Butterfly*

http://www.artflakes.com/en/products...of-a-butterfly

*Evelyn Pickering De Morgan, An Angel Piping to the Souls in Hell*

http://www.paintinghere.com/painting...ell_23745.html

*Evelyn de Morgan S.O.S*

http://www.paintinghere.com/painting/S.O.S._23763.html




> Evelyn de Morgan
> Sophia Frend De Morgan (1809-1892), hightened her awareness of the spiritual potential within herself. The book From Matter to Spirit was published by her mother-in-law in 1863 and it became a standard work on the subject of Spiritualism. As such it is likely to have had a profound effect on Evelyn in the later development of her notions of the correspondences between the natural and supernatural realms, spiritual survival and evolution, and a strong belief in the afterlife.
> At about the time of their marriage, Evelyn and William embarked upon a long-term collaborative experiment with automatic writing. The result was a series of transcripts having a highly metaphorical nature and expressing various spiritual truths derived from such classical sources as Ovid, Plato, St Augustine, Shakespeare, Bunyan and the Bible. The collection was eventually published anonymously in 1909 under the title The Result of an Experiment.
> http://www.mezzo-mondo.com/arts/mm/p...de_morgan.html

----------


## ftil

> *PROMETHEUS* is sometimes called a Titan, though in reality he did not belong to the Titans, but was only a son of the Titan Iapetus (whence he is designated by the patronymic Iapetionidês, Hes. Theog. 528; Apollon Rhod. iii. 1087), by Clymene, so that he was a brother of Atlas, Menoetius, and Epimetheus (Hes. Theog. 507). His name signifies "forethought," as that of his brother Epimetheus denotes "afterthought." Others call Prometheus a son of Themis (Aeschyl. Prom. 18), or of Uranus and Clymene, or of the Titan Eurymedon and Hera (Potter, Comment. ad Lyc. Cass. 1283; Eustath. ad Hom. p. 987).
> 
> The following is an outline of the legends related of him by the ancients. Once in the reign of Zeus, when gods and men were disputing with one another at Mecone (afterwards Sicyon, Schol. ad Pind. Nem. ix. 123), Prometheus, with a view to deceive Zeus and rival him in prudence, cut up a bull and divided it into two parts : he wrapped up the best parts and the intestines in the skin, and at the top he placed the stomach, which is one of the worst parts, while the second heap consisted of the bones covered with fat. When Zeus pointed out to him how badly he had made the division, Prometheus desired him to choose, but Zeus, in his anger, and seeing through the stratagem of Prometheus, chose the heap of bones covered with the fat. The father of the gods avenged himself by withholding fire from mortals, but Prometheus stole it in a hollow tube (ferula, narthêx, Aeschyl. Prom. 110). Zeus now, in order to punish men, caused Hephaestus to mold a virgin, Pandora, of earth, whom Athena adorned with all the charms calculated to entice mortals; Prometheus himself was put in chains, and fastened to a pillar, where an eagle sent by Zeus consumed in the daytime his liver, which, in every succeeding night, was restored again. Prometheus was thus exposed to perpetual torture, but Heracles killed the eagle and delivered the sufferer, with the consent of Zeus, who thus had an opportunity of allowing his son to gain immortal fame (Hes. Theog. 521, &c., Op. et Dies, 47, &c. ; Hygin. Poet. Astr. ii. 15; Apollod. ii. 5. § 11). Prometheus had cautioned his brother Epimetheus against accepting any present from Zeus, but Epimetheus, disregarding the advice, accepted Pandora, who was sent to him by Zeus, through the mediation of Hermes. Pandora then lifted the lid of the vessel in which the foresight of Prometheus had concealed all the evils which might torment mortals in life. Diseases and sufferings of every kind now issued forth, but deceitful hope alone remained behind (Hes. Op. et Dies, 83, &c.; comp. Horat. Carm. i. 3. 25, &c.). This is an outline of the legend about Prometheus, as contained in the poems of Hesiod.
> http://www.theoi.com/Titan/TitanPrometheus.html 
> 
> Aeschylus, in his trilogy Prometheus, added various new features to it, for, according to him, Prometheus himself is an immortal god, the friend of the human race, the giver of fire, the inventor of the useful arts, an omniscient seer, an heroic sufferer, who is overcome by the superior power of Zeus, but will not bend his inflexible mind. Although he himself belonged to the Titans, he is nevertheless represented as having assisted Zeus against the Titans (Prom. 218), and he is further said to have opened the head of Zeus when the latter gave birth to Athena (Apollod. i. 3. § 6). But when Zeus succeeded to the kingdom of heaven, and wanted to extirpate the whole race of man, the place of which he proposed to give to quite a new race of beings, Prometheus prevented the execution of the scheme, and saved the human race from destruction (Prom. 228, 233). *He deprived them of their knowledge of the future, and gave them hope instead (248, &c.).* He further taught them the use of fire, made them acquainted with architecture, astronomy, mathematics, the art of writing, the treatment of domestic animals, navigation, medicine, the art of prophecy, working in metal, and all the other arts (252, 445, &c., 480, &c.). But, as in all these things he had acted contrary to the will of Zeus, the latter ordered Hephaestus to chain him to a rock in Scythia, which was done in the presence of Cratos and Bia, two ministers of Zeus. In Scythia he was visited by the Oceanides; Io also came to him, and he foretold her the wanderings and sufferings which were yet in store for her, as well as her final relief (703, &c.). Hermes then likewise appears, and desires him to make known a prophecy which was of great importance to Zeus, for Prometheus knew that by a certain woman Zeus would beget a son, who was to dethrone his father, and Zeus wanted to have a more accurate knowledge of this decree of fate. But Prometheus steadfastly refused to reveal the decree of fate, whereupon Zeus, by a thunderbolt, sent Prometheus, together with the rock to which he was chained, into Tartarus (Horat. Carm. ii. 18, 35). After the lapse of a long time Prometheus returned to the upper world, to endure a fresh course of suffering, for he was now fastened to mount Caucasus, and tormented by an eagle, which every day, or every third day, devoured his liver, which was restored again in the night (Apollon. Rhod. ii. 1247, &c. iii. 853; Strab. xv. p. 688 ; Philostr. Vit. Apoll. ii. 3; Hygin. Poet. Astr. ii. 15; Aeschyl. Prom. 1015, &c.). This state of suffering was to last until some other god, of his own accord, should take his place, and descend into Tartarus for him (Prom. 1025). This came to pass when Charon, who had been incurably wounded by an arrow of Heracles, desired to go into Hades; and Zeus allowed him to supply the place of Prometheus (Apollod. ii. 5. § 4; comp. Cheiron). According to others, however, Zeus himself delivered Prometheus, when at length the Titan was prevailed upon to reveal to Zeus the decree of fate, that, if he should become by Thetis the either of a son, that son should deprive him of the sovereignty. (Serv. ad Virg. Eclog. vi. 42 ; Apollod. iii. 13. § 5; Hygin. Fab. 54; comp. Aeschyl. Prom. 167, &c. 376.)
> http://www.theoi.com/Titan/TitanPrometheus.html


*George Frederic Watts, Hope*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:As...rt_Project.jpg

*Cossiers, Jan, Prometheus Carrying Fire*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...rying_Fire.jpg

*George Frederick Watts, Prometheus*

http://www.mystudios.com/artgallery/...eus,-1904.html





> There was also an account, stating that Prometheus had created men out of earth and water, at the very beginning of the human race, or after the flood of Deucalion, when Zeus is said to have ordered him and Athena to make men out of the mud, and the winds to breathe life into them (Apollod. i. 7. § 1; Ov. Met. i. 81; Etym. Mag. s. v. Promêtheus). Prometheus is said to have given to men something of all the qualities possessed by the other animals (Horat Carm. i. 16. 13).
> http://www.theoi.com/Titan/TitanPrometheus.htm


*Otto Greiner. Prometheus. 
*
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...Prometheus.jpg




> *Sappho, Fragment 207* (from Servius on Virgil) (trans. Campbell, Vol. Greek Lyric I) (Greek lyric C6th B.C.) :
> "After creating men Prometheus is said to have stolen fire and revealed it to men."
> 
> *Ovid, Metamorphoses 1. 363 ff :*
> "[Deukalion speaks aloud, after the Great Deluge has wiped out all of mankind:] O for my father's [Prometheus'] magic to restore mankind again and in the moulded clay breathe life and so repopulate the world!"
> http://www.theoi.com/Titan/TitanPrometheus.html




*After Prometheus has created man out of mud, Athena breathes life into him, imparting reason and understanding. Part of a cycle on the myth of Prometheus by Christian Griepenkerl.*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...rch_Athena.jpg






> *Aesop, Fables 535* (from Life of Aesop 94) :
> "Zeus once ordered Prometheus to show mankind the two ways: one the way of freedom and the other the way of slavery. Prometheus made the way of freedom rough at the beginning, impassable and steep, with no water anywhere to drink, full of brambles, and beset with dangers on all sides at first. Eventually, however, it became a smooth plain, lined with paths and filled with groves of fruit trees and waterways. Thus the distressing experience ended in repose for those who breath the air of freedom. The way of slavery, however, started out as a smooth plain at the beginning, full of flowers, pleasant to look at and quite luxurious, but in the end it became impassable, steep and insurmountable on all sides." [N.B. In another text, Prometheus is replaced by Tykhe (Fortune).
> http://www.theoi.com/Titan/TitanPrometheus.html


*P. Rubens, Prometheus*
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...Rubens_032.jpg





> *Aesop, Fables 517* (from Phaedrus 4.16) :
> "Someone asked Aesop why lesbians and effeminates had been created, and old Aesop explained, The answer lies once again with Prometheus, the original creator of our common clay. All day long, Prometheus had been separately shaping those natural members which modesty conceals beneath our clothes, and when he was about to apply these private parts to the appropriate bodies Liber [Dionysos] unexpectedly invited him to dinner. Prometheus came home late, unsteady on his feet and with a good deal of heavenly nectar flowing through his veins. With his wits half asleep in a drunken haze he stuck the female genitalia on male bodies and male members on the ladies. This is why modern lust revels in perverted pleasures."http://www.theoi.com/Titan/TitanPrometheus.html


*PROMETHEUS*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:12orozco2.jpg




> *Aesop, Fables 515* (from Chambry 322) :
> "Following Zeus's orders, Prometheus fashioned humans and animals. When Zeus saw that the animals far outnumbered the humans, he ordered Prometheus to reduce the number of the animals by turning them into people. Prometheus did as he was told, and as a result those people who were originally animals have a human body but the soul of an animal."http://www.theoi.com/Titan/TitanPrometheus.html


Prometheus at Rockefeller Center by David Shankbone

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi..._Shankbone.jpg


Let's look at King Louis XIV




> Louis XIV chose the sun for his emblem. The sun was Apollo, god of Peace and the Arts; it was also the heavenly body giving life to all things, the embodiment of regularity, which rises and sets each day. Like the Sun God, Louis XIV, the warrior hero, brought peace to his people; he protected the arts and dispensed all the graces. Through the regularity of his work, his public levers and couchers (morning rising and evening retiring ceremonies), he insisted on the resemblance, carved in stone: the decor of Versailles was filled with the depictions and attributes of the god (laurels, lyre, tripod) on all the royal portraits and emblems. 
> http://en.chateauversailles.fr/histo...-by-divine-law






> Nec pluribus impar (literally: "Not unequal to many") is a Latin motto adopted by Louis XIV of France from 1658. It was often inscribed together with the symbol of the "Sun King": a head within rays of sunlight.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nec_pluribus_impar


*The Nec pluribus impar motto and the sun-king emblem, on a de Vallière gun, 1745*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ne...ibus_Impar.jpg

*The "S" letter (for Sun) with the motto Nec pluribus impar. Dictionnaire de l'Académie Française, 1694.*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:16...ibus_Impar.jpg




> Grand appartement du roi
> Le Vaus plan called for an enfilade of seven rooms, each dedicated to one of the then known planets and their associated titular Roman deity. Le Vaus plan was bold as he designed a heliocentric system that centred on the Salon of Apollo. The salon dApollon originally was designed as the kings bedchamber, but served as a throne room. During the reign of Louis XIV (until 1689), a solid silver throne stood on a Persian carpet covered dais on the south wall of this room (Berger, 1986; Dangeau, 18541860; Josephson, 1926; 1930; Verlet, 1985).
> The original arrangement of the enfilade of rooms was:
> 
> *Salon de Diane* (Diana, Roman goddess of the hunt; associated with the Moon)
> 
> *Salon de Mars* (Mars, Roman god of war; associated with the planet Mars)
> 
> *Salon de Mercure* (Mercury, Roman god of trade, commerce, and the Liberal Arts; associated with the planet Mercury)
> ...


Let's look at Mercury/Hermes Salon

*Hermes/Mercury*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...S_SCIENCES.jpg

*Hermes*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Herm%C3%A8s1.jpg


*Holly Family*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...TE_FAMILLE.jpg

*Last Supper*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...R_A_EMMAUS.jpg





> HERMES was the great Olympian god of herds, travel, trade, heraldry, language, athletics and thievery. This page describes his divine roles and privileges including:--
> 1. Hermes God of Animal Husbandry
> 2. Hermes God of Heralds
> 3. Hermes God of Birds of Omen
> 4. Hermes God of Thieves & Trickery
> 5. Hermes God of Trade & Merchants
> 6. Hermes God of Language & Crafty Wiles
> 7. Hermes God of Roads, Travelers & Hospitality
> 8. Hermes God of Feasts & Banquets
> ...

----------


## ftil

Let's look at religion in ancient Rome.

From the beginning of the Roman Republic to the end of the empire, people ruled by Rome didn’t have freedom of choice what deities they wanted to worship as well as what rituals they wanted to be a part of. To proper functioning of Roman state depended on a strict supervision of religion by Roman authorities. In fact, new deities and cults couldn’t function without being approved by the senate or the emperor and senate decided what was acceptable or not in religious worship. Control of religion was perceived to be necessary in order to have a full control over people. Since politics and religion were inextricably linked, roman religion did adapt itself to political changes. (Cowley, 2008, p. 2-3). 

* Cesare Maccari, Representation of a sitting of the Roman Senate: Cicero attacks tCatilina, from a 19th century fresco*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maccari-Cicero.jpg


Religious power was dived among *pontifices, augures, and decimviri* and priests occupied a critical position in Roman political life. The power of pontifices rested in meditating between the senate and the citizens. The leading member of the College of Pontiffs was the Pontifex Maximus. (Cowley, 2008, p.8-9)





> The Collegium Pontificum was the most important priesthood of ancient Rome. The foundation of this sacred college and the office of Pontifex Maximus is attributed to the second king of Rome, Numa Pompilius. 
> 
> In the Roman Republic, the Pontifex Maximus was the highest office in the state religion of ancient Rome and directed the College of Pontiffs. According to Livy, after the overthrow of the monarchy, the Romans created the priesthood of the rex sacrorum, or "king of sacred rites," to carry out certain religious duties and rituals previously performed by the king. The rex sacrorum was explicitly deprived of military and political power, but the pontifices were permitted to hold both magistracies and military commands.]
> The official residence of the Pontifex Maximus was the Domus Publica ("State House") which stood between the House of the Vestal Virgins and the Via Sacra, in the Roman Forum.
> 
> The Pontifex was not simply a priest. He had both political and religious authority. It is not clear which of the two came first or had the most importance. In practice, particularly during the late Republic, the office of Pontifex Maximus was generally held by a member of a politically prominent family. It was a coveted position mainly for the great prestige it conferred on the holder; Julius Cesar became pontifex in 73 BC and pontifex maximus in 63 BC.
> 
> Later, the word "pontifex” become a term used by Catholic bishops and and the title of "Pontifex Maximus" was applied within the Roman Catholic Church to the pope as a chief bishop.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontifex_Maximus



The pontifical collage, a religious expert, supervised both religion and religious officials that included the vestals, rex sacrorum, and flamines, (Cowley, 2008, p.8)

*Portrait of a flamen. Marble, ca 250-260 AD.*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fl...uvre_Ma431.jpg


*The augurs,* on the other hand, mediated between men and god. The main role of augurs was to interpret the will of the gods by studying the flight of birds. This was known as "taking the auspices” Romans inherited predicting the future through studying birds from the Etruscan who were masters of this art. Cicero was a member of this collage. The importance of the tradition of taking the auspices was emphasized by Cicero as he stated that "No public business was conducted without taking the auspices first” The interpretation of omen was used as an excuse to suspend a session that was not going the way they wanted or stopped the legislation. (Cowley, 2008, p. 9 -10).

*An augur holding a lituus the curved wand often used as a symbol of augury on Roman coins*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Au...familjebok.png

*A lituus (reverse, right, over the patera) as cult instrument, in this coin celebrating the pietas of the Roman Emperor Herennius Etruscus.*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RSC_0004a.6.jpg




> A crosier (crozier, pastoral staff, paterissa, pósokh) is the stylized staff of office (pastoral staff) carried by high-ranking Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, and some Lutheran and Pentecostal prelates. 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crozier


*Western crosier of Archbishop Heinrich of Finstingen*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cr...Finstingen.jpg

More croziers

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Croziers


Finally, t*he quindecimviri sacris faciundis*, priests of sacred matters, were the fifteen (quindecim) members of a college with priestly duties. Most notably they guarded *the Sibylline Books*, scriptures which they consulted and interpreted at the request of the Senate. This collegium also oversaw the worship of any foreign gods which were introduced to Rome. Romans believed that Tarquinius Priscus, was the legendary fifth King of Rome brought the Sibylline books from the Cumaean Sibyl and place them in the care of quindecimviri sacris faciundis to be consulted only at the command of the senate when state was facing a disaster or prodigies. (Cowley, 2008, p. 10-11).

According to Wikipedia, The Sibylline Books should not be confused with the so-called Sibylline Oracles, twelve books of prophecies thought to be of Judaeo-Christian origin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibylline_Books

First, Lucius Tarquinius Priscus was a king between 616 BC to 579 BC. 
Second, those books were vital components in legitimating change in the state religion since the books were understood as being very old, yet recommended introducing new deities and rituals. (Cowley, 2008, p 11). Those books couldn’t be of Judeo-Christian religion.

*Michelangelo, Cumaean Sibyl, the Sistine Chapel, Vatican
*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cu...chelangelo.jpg


It is important to mention the order of Aruspices.




> The order of Aruspices was made up of twelve priests although towards the end of the Republic they were increased to something closer to 20. The name itself comes from "ab aris aspiciendis" - looking upon the altars.
> http://www.mariamilani.com/ancient_r...cient_rome.htm





> A soothsayer (from Latin ara, altar, and Inspicio, examined), Haruspex transcribes Latin, Etruscan soothsayer was examining the entrails of a sacrificial animal for omens for the future.
> The soothsayers of Etruria were consulted privately throughout the Roman Empire .The Roman Senate had to "Etruscan discipline" in high regard and consulting soothsayers before making a decision. The Emperor Claudius studied the Etruscan language. , learned to read, and created a "college" of 60 haruspices which existed until the 408 . They offered their services to Pompeian, prefect of Rome, to save the city from the assault of the Goths , the Christian bishop Innocent, but reluctantly agreed to this proposal provided that the rites remain secret. As is known, the practice had little effect on invasions. It lasted, therefore, throughout the six century. 
> http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ar%C3%BAspice


Let’s look at foreign cults in Rome.

Isis had reached Italy through Italian merchants who carried her cult from Delos to Compania some time during the Republic. The goddess Isis was the Egyptian throne personified and deified and her son Horus was thus the god with whom the king of Egypt became identified, the living manifestation of his divinity (Lesko, 1999, p. 190). In fact, The epithet of Horus “the Great God” appeared with the names of the kings in the Fourth and fifth Dynasties – Snefru, Khufu ( Cheops), and Sahure. Even Pepi I was called on his coffin,”the Great God, Lord of the Horizon” and “Horus of the Horizon, Lord of Heaven”( Frankfort, 1978, p. 39).

The embodiment of the king of gods promoted in ancient Egypt probably served as a validation of their claim of absolute power, providing them with more effective mechanism of political control. Likewise, Roman emperors clearly saw the benefit of employing the idea of divine kingship always associated with Egypt’s pharaohs as many favored a cult of Isis and Serapis. Emperors easily assimilated Egyptian features. For example, Caesars were portrayed in the traditional nemes headdress and short kilt of Egypt's kings or Caligula who claimed divinity, brought an obelisk from the Egypt and built a temple for her at Campus Martius. (Lesko, 1999, p.190 -193).

*Vatican obelisk*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vatican_obelisk.jpg


In 59, 58, 53, 50, and 48 BC, the senate took action against the cult of Isis and Sarapis primarily for political reasons. The suppression of Isis and serapis was an attempt to regain political power as it occurred in times when senate was weak. In times of Julius Cesar anti Egyptian attitudes intensified and were exacerbated after Decius Mondus, the Roman Knight, masqueraded as god Anubis raped a noble woman in Isis temple. After closing the temple the cult of Isis appeared again, proving that the cult was popular to be ignored. However, the cult was prohibited again in 28BC that signified Octavian’s victory over Antony and Cleopatra. (Lesko, 1999, p. 193).


*Lawrence Alma-Tadema, Anthony and Cleopatra*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:La..._Cleopatra.JPG

As the cults of Isis reappeared again in Rome in 21 BC, Agrippa took action against them to protect Augustus policy and as such his authority. Isis’ devotees were forbidden to move freely. and were banned within one mile of the city. The repercussion reflected the anxiety of those in power about large groups and its potential to disrupt that those in power disliked the most.

Finally, Isis and Serapis found a place in roman pantheon under Flavian patronage in an attempt to restore the inner order of the empire. To accomplish this required re-establishing pax deorum ( peace with gods). Since Egypt provided economic stability, Isis and Serapis had to be appeased. Even though some emperors were actively involved in suppression of the cult of Isis and Serapis, their desire for autocratic power led to their association and imitation of Egyptian rulers. (Cowley, 2008, p.28).


Reference
Cowley, A. (2008). Religious Toleration and Political Power in the Roman World. 

Frankfort, H.( 1978) Kingship and the gods.

Lesko, B. (1999). The Great Goddesses of Egypt.

----------


## ftil

Madonna and Super Bowl inspired me to look at sphinx. (photos # 3) 

An interesting title, Did Madonna put on the greatest show on Earth? Lots of ancient Egyptian themes. We even find Apollos lyre.  :FRlol: 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...l-slip-up.html





> *SPHINX*, a monstrous being of Greek mythology, is said to have been a daughter of Orthus and Chimera, born in the country of the Arimi (Hes. Theog. 326), or of Typhon and Echidna (Apollod. iii. 5. § 8; Schol. ad Eurip. Phoen. 46), or lastly of Typhon and Chimera (Schol. ad Hes. and Eurip. l. .c.).
> 
> According to some she had been sent into Boeotia by Hera, who was angry with the Thebans for not having punished Lains, who had carried off Chrysippus from Pisa. She is said to have come from the most distant part of Ethiopia (Apollod. l. c. ; Schol. ad Eurip. Phoen. 1760); according to others she was sent by Ares, who wanted to take revenge because Cadmus had slain his son, the dragon (Argum. ad Eurip. Phoen.), or by Dionysus (Schol. ad Hes. Theog. 326), or by Hades (Eurip. Phoen. 810), and some lastly say that she was one on the women who, together with the daughters of Cadmus, were thrown into madness, and was metamorphosed into the monstrous figure. (Schol. ad Eurip. Phoen. 45.)
> 
> THE SPHINX was a female monster with the body of a lion, the breast and head of a woman, eagle's wings and, according to some, a serpent-headed tail.
> 
> She was sent by the gods to plague the town of Thebes as punishment for some ancient crime. There she preyed on the youths of the land, devouring all those who failed to solve her riddle.
> http://www.theoi.com/Ther/Sphinx.html


*Summary*
Detail of the winged, lion-bodied Sphinx seated on a plinth and presenting her riddle to Oidipous. Her hair is held back with a head-band. ca 450 - 440 BC

http://www.theoi.com/Gallery/M18.3B.html





> *Hesiod, Theogony 326 ff* (trans. Evelyn-White) (Greek epic C8th or C7th B.C.) :
> "But she [Chimera] also, in love with Orthos, mothered the deadly Sphinx, the bane of the Cadmeians." 
> 
> *Lasus, Fragment 706A* (from Natale Conti, Mythology) (trans. Campbell, Vol. Greek Lyric III) (Greek lyric C6th B.C.) :
> "The Sphinx was daughter of Echidna and Typhon, according to Lasus of Hermione."http://www.theoi.com/Ther/Sphinx.html





> In Greek mythology, *Echidna* was half woman half snake, known as the *"Mother of All Monsters"* because most of the monsters in Greek myth were mothered by her. In Theogony, Hesiod described her as:
> [...] the goddess fierce Echidna who is half a nymph with glancing eyes and fair cheeks, and half again a huge snake, great and awful, with speckled skin, eating raw flesh beneath the secret parts of the holy earth. And there she has a cave deep down under a hollow rock far from the deathless gods and mortal men. There, then, did the gods appoint her a glorious house to dwell in: and she keeps guard in Arima beneath the earth, grim Echidna, a nymph who dies not nor grows old all her days.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echidna_%28mythology%29



*Summary*
Apollo, seated on the omphalos stone of Delphi, and beside the Delphic tripod, shoots arrows at the monster Python, the old guardian of the shrine. The beast is depicted with a woman's head and breast, matching the poet Hesiod's description of Echidna. ca 470 BC

http://www.theoi.com/Gallery/K5.12.html





> *Typhon* also Typhoeus, Typhaon or Typhos was the last son of Gaia, fathered by Tartarus, and the most deadly monster of Greek mythology. He was known as the "Father of all monsters"; his wife Echidna was likewise the "Mother of All Monsters."
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhon


*Summary*

Detail of the winged, serpent-legged giant Typhon.

http://www.theoi.com/Gallery/M10.1.html





> *Aeschylus, Fragment 129 Sphinx* (from Aristophanes, Frogs 1287 with Scholiast) (trans. Weir Smyth) (Greek tragedy C5th B.C.) :
> "The Sphinx, the watch-dog that presideth over evil days."
> 
> *Pseudo-Apollodorus, Bibliotheca 3. 52 - 55* (trans. Aldrich) (Greek mythographer C2nd A.D.) :
> "While he [Kreon] was king, quite a scourge held Thebes in suppression, for Hera sent upon them the Sphinx, whose parents were Echidna and Typhon. She had a woman's face, the breast, feet, and tail of a lion, and bird wings. She had learned a riddle form the Mousai, and now sat on Mount Phikion where she kept challenging the Thebans with it. The riddle was: what is it that has one voice, and is four-footed and two-footed and three-footed? An oracle existed for the Thebans to the effect that they would be free of the Sphinx when they guessed her riddle, so they often convened to search for the meaning, but whenever they came up with the wrong answer, she would seize one of them, and eat him up. When many had died, including most recently Kreon's own son Haimon, Kreon announced publicly that he would give both the kingdom and the widow of Laios to the man who solved the riddle. Oedipus heard and solved it, stating that he answer to the Sphinx's question was man. As a baby he crawls on all fours, as an adult he is two-footed, and as he grows old he gains a third foot in the form of a cane. At this the Sphinx threw herself from the acropolis."
> http://www.theoi.com/Ther/Sphinx.html


*Summary*

Oedipus ponders the riddle of the Sphinx. The woman-headed, winged lion sits poised on a plinth. Oedipus stands wearing a travelers cloak and a petasos cap hanging over his shoulder. ca 450 - 440 BC

http://www.theoi.com/Gallery/M18.3.html





> *Herodotus, Histories 4. 79. 1* (trans. Godley) (Greek historian C5th B.C.) :
> "In the city of the Borysthenites [in Asia Minor] a spacious house, grand and costly . . . all surrounded by Sphinxes and Grypes (Griffins) worked in white marble."
> 
> 
> *Aelian, On Animals 12. 38 :* 
> "Every painter and every sculptor who devotes himself and has been trained to the practise of his art figures the Sphinx as winged."



The Sphinx, Athenian red figure amphora, C5th B.C., Museum of Fine Arts, Boston

http://www.theoi.com/Ther/Sphinx.html 


Sphinx received lots of attention through centuries.


*Spain, mid-18th century*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:La...so_Sfinx01.jpg

*A sphinx at the entrance of the Upper Belvedere, in Belvedere Palace, Vienna, Austria*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wi...e_DSC03014.JPG


*Potsdam, Sphinx in Park Sanssouci* 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bu..._Sanssouci.jpg


*Belgium, right Greek sphinx on the northern perron of the « Empain » castle*.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Enghien_CHSph1JPG.jpg

*Female sphinx on the tower of the Town Hall of Paris.*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pa...le_2497_07.jpg


*Sphinx guarding the entrance of Parque Guinle, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.
*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sphinx_guinle_1.JPG

*London*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...l_2_London.jpg


*Sphinx, Thames_Embankment, London*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...nt,_London.jpg


*The sphinx in the Blickling Hall gardens was supplied to Lady Lothian by Austin & Seeley in 1877.*
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi..._Blickling.JPG

*Gardens of Harewood House in Harewood, West Yorkshire, United Kingdom*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...t_Harewood.jpg


*One of a pair of sphinxes, circa 1700 by John Nost, flanking steps on the north east side of the terrace at Trent Park House, Trent Park, Enfield.*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi..._Enfield_2.jpg

*Sphinx adopted as an emblem in Masonic architecture*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sp...mple,_Utah.JPG



*Sphinx in Germany*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ca...xes_in_Germany

*Sphinx in France*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ca...nxes_in_France

*More sculpture of sphinx.*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Sphinxes


Sphinx also received lots of attention in paintings.  :Biggrin: 


*Gustave Moreau, Oedipus and the Sphinx*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gu...Moreau_005.jpg


*Fernand Khnopff, The Sphinx*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...hnopff_002.jpg


*Oedipus and the Sphinx, Francois Xavier Fabre*

http://0.tqn.com/d/arthistory/1/0/V/...tz_2010_08.jpg



*Franz von Stuck, The Kiss of the Sphinx
*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Th...the_Sphinx.jpg


*Michael Parkes Sphinx* 

http://redux.com/stream/item/1875859...-Parkes-Sphinx


*Micheal Parkes Sphinx*

http://www.artbrokerage.com/artist/M...w-Sphinx-19580


*Micheal Parkes, the Sphinx*

http://www.wallcoo.net/paint/Michael...he_Sphinx.html


*Helene Knoop, Sphinx*

http://figurativeartlivingmasters.fi...02/sphinx1.jpg



*The Sphinx of the Seashore, Elihu Vedder*

http://www.the-athenaeum.org/art/full.php?ID=20056

----------


## ftil

I was looking at Lucifer origin. Lets look at Eosphorus and Hesperus myth.





> *Hesiod, Theogony 378 ff* (trans. Evelyn-White) (Greek epic C8th or C7th B.C.) :
> 
> "And Eos (Dawn) bare to Astraios (the Starry) the strong-hearted Winds, brightening Zephyrus (West Wind), and Boreas (North Wind), headlong in his course, and Notus (South Wind),--a goddess mating in love with a god. And after these Erigenia (the Early-Born) bare the star Eosphorus (Dawn-bringer) [the planet Venus], and the gleaming stars with which heaven is crowned."
> 
> *Homer, Iliad 23. 226 ff* (trans. Lattimore) (Greek epic C8th B.C.) :
> "At that time when Eosphorus (Dawn Star) passes across earth, harbinger of light, and after him Eos (Dawn) of the saffron mantle is scattered across the sea."
> 
> 
> Phosphorus (Greek Φωσφόρος Phōsphoros), a name meaning "Light-Bringer", is the Morning Star, the planet Venus in its morning appearance. Φαοσφόρος (Phaosphoros) and Φαεσφόρος (Phaesphoros) are forms of the same name in some Greek dialects.
> ...


So, the Greek term Φωσφόρος (Phōsphoros) means in Latin Lucifer that is Phosphorus, Morning Star, the planet Venus. But it gets a little bit tricky as we read Ibycus that Eosphorus (Dawn-Bringer) and Hesperus (Evening-star) were the same. But myths had been changing through centuries.





> *Ibycus, Fragment 331* (from Scholiast on Basil, Genesis) (trans. Campbell, Vol. Greek Lyric III) (Greek lyric C6th B.C.) :
> "Eosphorus (Dawn-Bringer) and Hesperus (Evening-star) are one and the same, although in ancient times they were thought to be different. Ibycus of Rhegium was the first to equate the titles."






*Hesperus as Personification of the Evening by Anton Raphael Mengs*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Me...des_Abends.jpg



*Phosphorus and Hesperus, Evelyn De Morgan*

http://www.illusionsgallery.com/Phos...-Hesperus.html



The Lucifer name showed up in Cicero *1BC*, Ovid, *43BC-AD* and Pseudo-Hyginus *2 AD.*





> *Cicero, De Natura Deorum 3. 19* (trans. Rackham) (Roman rhetorician C1st B.C.) :
> "If Luna [Selene the moon] is a goddess, then Lucifer (the Morning Star) also and the rest of the Wandering Stars (Stellae Errantes) will have to be counted gods as well."
> 
> *Cicero, De Natura Deorum 2. 20* (trans. Rackham) (Roman rhetorician C1st B.C.) :
> "The star of Venus, called in Greek Phosphoros (the light-bringer) and in Latin Lucifer when it precedes the sun, but when it follows it Hesperos."
> 
> *Ovid, Metamorphoses 2. 273 ff :* (43 BC  AD)
> "As Lucifer (the morning star) more brilliant shines than all the stars, or as golden Phoebe (the Moon) outshines Lucifer (the morning star)."
> 
> ...



Lets look at the Excerpt from *The Secret Doctrine by H. P. Blavatsky  Vol. 2*





> *VOL. 2, PAGE 233 HOLY SATAN.*
> 
> The true esoteric view about Satan, the opinion held on this subject by the whole philosophic antiquity, is admirably brought out in an appendix, entitled The Secret of Satan, to the second edition of Dr. A. Kingsfords Perfect Way. No better and clearer indication of the truth could be offered to the intelligent reader, and it is therefore quoted here at some length: 
> 
> 1. And on the seventh day (seventh creation of the Hindus),* there went forth from the presence of God a mighty Angel, full of wrath and consuming, and God gave him the dominion of the outermost sphere.
> 
> 2. Eternity brought forth Time; the Boundless gave birth to Limit; Being descended into generation.
> 
> 4. Among the Gods is none like unto him, into whose hands are committed the kingdoms, the power and the glory of the worlds:
> ...


So, occultists believe that Satan is the only god.

Let's look at the Bible.






> Use of the name "Lucifer" for the Devil stems from applying to the Devil what Isaiah 14:320 says of a king of Babylon whom it calls Helel (הֵילֵל, Shining One), a Hebrew word that refers to the Day Star or Morning Star (the Latin term for which is lucifer) In 2 Peter 1:19 and elsewhere, the same Latin word lucifer is used to refer to the Morning Star, with no relation to the Devil. In Revelation 22:16, Jesus himself is called the Morning Star, but not "Lucifer", even in Latin.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer






> How art thou fallen from heaven, *O Lucifer, son of the morning!* how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
> Isaiah 14: 12
> ( from King James Version)
> 
> How you have fallen from heaven, *O morning star, son of the dawn!*
> You have been cast down to the earth,
> you who once laid low the nations!
> Isaiah 14: 12
> ( New International Version, 1984)
> ...


So, New International Version, Standard Version, or New Living Translation removed Lucifer. I am wondering why.......

Let's look at 2 Peter 1: 19





> 19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
> 
> 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
> 2 Peter 1: 19-21
> (from King James Version)
> 
> We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.
> 20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophets own interpretation of things.
> 
> ...



Wikipedia in not accurate. There is no Lucifer at 2 Peter but "morning star".



For now, we know that in Greek mythology Morning Star and Evening Star were one and the same.
In the Bible Lucifer was a Morning Star.

We also have Diana Lucifera.




> Artemis (Diana ) was a dawn-goddess, the bringer of light, and crop-destroying frost. This role was later devolved to Eos (the dawn personified, a goddess developed in Homeric epic).
> 
> 
> *Callimachus, Hymn 3 to Artemis 10 ff* (trans. Mair) (Greek poet C3rd B.C.) :
> "[The child Artemis asks Zeus for divine privileges:] But give me to be Phaesphoria (Bringer of Light)."
> 
> *Callimachus, Hymn 3 to Artemis 188 ff :*
> "[Artemis], O queen, fairfaced Bringer of Light."http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Artemis.html

----------


## ftil

Let's look at heart symbolism





> Human sacrifice was a religious practice characteristic of pre-Columbian Aztec civilization, as well as of other mesoamerican civilizations such as the Maya and the Zapote.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_s..._Aztec_culture .



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Co...cropped%29.jpg

*Human sacrifice as shown in the Codex Magliabechiano.*

In ancient Egypt.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:We...the_heart3.jpg

*Anubis weighing the heart of Hunefer*

We have Egyptian heart talismans.




> The Heart was believed to be the seat of the Soul, and Illustrations Nos. 67, 68, 69, Plate V, are examples of these Talismans worn to prevent black magicians from bewitching the Soul out of the body. The importance of these charms will be realized from the belief that if the Soul left the Heart, the Body would quickly fade away and die. According to Egyptian lore at the judgment of the dead the Heart is weighed, when if found perfect, it is returned to its owner, who immediately recovers his powers of locomotion and becomes his own master, with strength in his limbs and everlasting felicity in his soul.
> http://chestofbooks.com/new-age/spir...er-Part-4.html



We have in Catholic church.






> Marguerite Marie Alacoque or Saint Margaret Mary Alacoque (22 July 1647, Verosvres  17 October 1690) was a French Roman Catholic nun and mystic, who promoted devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus in its modern form.
> She had visions of Jesus Christ, which she thought were a normal part of human experience and continued to practise austerity. However, in response to a vision of Christ, crucified but alive, that reproached her for forgetfulness of him, claiming his Heart was filled with love for her due to her promise, she entered, when almost 24 years of age, the Visitation Convent at Paray-le-Monial on 25 May 1671, intending to become a nun.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marguerite_Marie_Alacoque



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:St...t_of_Jesus.png

*St Margaret Mary Alacoque Contemplating the Sacred Heart of Jesus*


Veneration of the Heart of Mary is analogous to worship of the Sacred Heart of Jesus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bl...irgin_Mary.jpg



I watched an interesting interpretation of heart symbolism and Fibonacci number. 


*Golden spiral.*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FakeRealLogSprial.svg

If we add numbers we have number 33 that is 9. Let's look at the heart. We have two 9 or 2 spirals.


http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...syd%C3%A4n.png



http://philip.greenspun.com/images/p...ircase-4.4.jpg

*Vatican Museum staircase*



http://chevalfineart.com/gallery/sense/b/23

*Cavalier of Flitting Past, Micheal Cheval*

----------


## ftil

> Ziggurats were built by the Sumerians, Babylonians, Elamites, Akkadians, and Assyrians for local religions. Each ziggurat was part of a temple complex which included other buildings. The precursors of the ziggurat were raised platforms that date from the Ubaid period during the fourth millennium BC. The earliest ziggurats began near the end of the Early Dynastic Period. The latest Mesopotamian ziggurats date from the 6th century BC. Built in receding tiers upon a rectangular, oval, or square platform, the ziggurat was a pyramidal structure with a flat top. Sun-baked bricks made up the core of the ziggurat with facings of fired bricks on the outside. The facings were often glazed in different colors and may have had astrological significance. Kings sometimes had their names engraved on these glazed bricks. The number of tiers ranged from two to seven.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggurat



*The reconstructed facade of the Neo-Sumerian Great Ziggurat of Ur, near Nasiriyah, Iraq*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:An..._Iraq_2005.jpg

Ziggurat at Ur (called by the Sumerians Etemennigur) - built around 2100 BC It was a sacred tower dedicated to the moon god Nanna

*Ziggurat of Ur, Reconstruction*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...urat_of_ur.jpg




> According to Herodotus, at the top of each ziggurat was a shrine, although none of these shrines has survived. One practical function of the ziggurats was a high place on which the priests could escape rising water that annually inundated lowlands and occasionally flooded for hundreds of miles, as for example the 1967 flood. Another practical function of the ziggurat was for security. Since the shrine was accessible only by way of three stairways, a small number of guards could prevent non-priests from spying on the rituals at the shrine on top of the ziggurat, such as cooking of sacrificial food and burning of carcasses of sacrificial animals. Each ziggurat was part of a temple complex that included a courtyard, storage rooms, bathrooms, and living quarters, around which a city was built.







> E-temenanki ( "The house foundation / base of heaven and earth" ) - the temple in the form of ziggurat , located in Babylon , in the immediate vicinity of the Processional Way, according to popular opinion dedicated to the god Marduk , one of the most important sanctuaries of the State of Babylon . According to some researchers, this building was the inspiration for the biblical story of the Tower of Babel .



*Model of Etemenanki. Pergamonmuseum (Berlin)*


http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...nki_Berlin.jpg


*The Babylonian tower Etemenanki,* 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...323.tif&page=1


*Choqa Zanbil, Ziggurat, Dur Untash, 13th century BC*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...a_Zanbil_2.jpg


*Modern buildings.*

*The Ziggurat in West Sacramento,*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...amento,_CA.jpg


*Chet Holifield Federal Building, Laguna Niguel, California*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...l_Building.jpg


*University of East Anglia*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...ast_Anglia.jpg


*Ziggurat in Budapest, Hungary. A free look-out tower in front of the Palace of Arts, next to the National Theater, with an exhibition room inside.*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...t_budapest.jpg


*MI6 Building*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi..._-_1138780.jpg


*Hodges Library, UT Knoxville*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi..._Southeast.jpg






> Step pyramids are structures which characterized several cultures throughout history, in several locations throughout the world. These pyramids typically are large and made of several layers of stone. The term refers to pyramids of similar design that emerged separately from one another, as there are no firmly established connections between the different civilizations that built them.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Step_pyramid


*El Castillo, Chichen Itza, Mexico*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ch...l_Castillo.jpg


*The Pyramid of Djoser in Saqqara, Egypt.*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Py...joser_2010.jpg


*Candi Sukuh in eastern Central Java.*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Candi_Sukuh_2007.JPG


*Borobudur temple view from northeast plateau, Central Java, Indonesia.*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bo...hwest-view.jpg

More step pyramids.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ca...:Step_pyramids

----------


## ftil

> The House of Medici or Famiglia de' Medici was a political dynasty, banking family and later royal house that first began to gather prominence under Cosimo de' Medici in the Republic of Florence during the late 14th century. The family originated in the Mugello region of the Tuscan countryside, gradually rising until they were able to found the Medici Bank. The bank was the largest in Europe during the 15th century, seeing the Medici gain political power in Florence — though officially they remained simply citizens rather than monarchs.
> 
> *The Medici produced four Popes of the Catholic Church—Pope Leo X (1513–1521),Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), Pope Pius IV (1559–1565), and Pope Leo XI (1605); two regent queens of France—Catherine de' Medici (1547–1559) and Marie de' Medici(1600–1610)*; and, in 1531, the family became hereditary Dukes of Florence. In 1569, the duchy was elevated to a grand duchy after territorial expansion.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Medici







> *Pope Leo X* (11 December 1475 – 1 December 1521), born Giovanni di Lorenzo de' Medici, was the Pope from 1513 to his death in 1521. He was the last non-priest (only a deacon) to be elected Pope. He is known for granting indulgences for those who donated to reconstruct St. Peter's Basilica and his challenging of Martin Luther's 95 Theses. He was the second son of Lorenzo de' Medici, the most famous ruler of the Florentine Republic, and Clarice Orsini. His cousin, Giulio di Giuliano de' Medici, would later succeed him as Pope Clement VII (1523–34).
> 
> Several modern historians have concluded that Leo was homosexual. Contemporary tracts and accounts such as that of Francesco Guicciardini have been found to allude to active same-sex relations – alleging Count Ludovico Rangone and Galeotto Malatesta among his lovers.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Leo_X






> *Clement VII* (26 May 1478 – 25 September 1534), born Giulio di Giuliano de' Medici, was a cardinal from 1513 to 1523 and was Pope from 1523 to 1534. He was born in Florence one month after his father's death. His father, Giuliano de' Medici, had been assassinated. Although his parents had not had a formal marriage, a canon law loophole allowing for the parents to have been betrothed per sponsalia de presenti meant that Giulio was considered legitimate. He was thus the nephew of Lorenzo the Magnificent, who educated him in his youth. Clement's mother, Fioretta Gorini, also died leaving him an orphan.
> 
> Giulio was made a Knight of Rhodes and Grand Prior of Capua, and, upon the election of his cousin Giovanni de' Medici to the pontificate as Leo X (1513–21), he soon became a powerful figure in Rome. Upon his cousin's accession to the papacy, Giulio became his principal minister and confidant, especially in the maintenance of the Medici interest at Florence as archbishop of that city. On 23 September 1513, he was made cardinal and he was consecrated on 29 September. He had the credit of being the main director of papal policy during the whole of Leo X's pontificate, especially as cardinal protector of England. He was also the titular Bishop of Worcester in the county of Worcestershire in England as Administrator or the See of Worcester.
> 
> As for the arts, Clement VII is remembered for having ordered, just a few days before his death, Michelangelo's painting of The Last Judgment in the Sistine Chapel.
> Pope Clement VII - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






> *Pius IV* (31 March 1499 – 9 December 1565), born Giovanni Angelo Medici, was Popefrom 1559 to 1565. He is notable for presiding over the culmination of the Council of Trent.
> 
> Under his reign Michelangelo re-built the basilica of Santa Maria degli Angeli (in the Diocletian's Baths) and the eponymous Villa Pia, now known as Casina Pio IV and headquarters of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, was designed by Pirro Ligorio in the Vatican Gardens.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Pius_IV





> *Pope Leo XI* (2 June 1535 – 27 April 1605), born Alessandro Ottaviano de' Medici, was Pope from 1 April 1605 to 27 April of the same year. He was born in Florence: his mother, Francesca Salviati, was a daughter of Jacopo Salviati and Lucrezia de' Medici, a sister of Leo X, Pietro Aldobrandini, the leader of the Italian party among the cardinals, allied with the French cardinals and brought about the election of Alessandro against the express wish of King Philip III of Spain. King Henry IV of France is said to have spent 300,000 écus in the promotion of Alessandro's candidacy. On 1 April 1605, Alessandro ascended the papal throne with the name Leo XI after his uncle Pope Leo X, being then almost seventy years of age, but was taken ill immediately after his coronation and died within the month.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Leo_XI





> *Pietro Aldobrandini* (31 March 1571 – 10 February 1621) was an Italian Cardinal and patron of the arts.
> *He was made a cardinal in 1593 by his uncle, Pope Clement VIII.* He took over the duchy of Ferrara in 1598 when it fell to the Papal States. He became archbishop of Ravenna in 1604.
> He bought the Palazzo Doria Pamphilj,] and spent large sums on this and other buildings such as the Villa Aldobrandini. He was a patron of Torquato Tasso, and of Girolamo Frescobaldi.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pietro_Aldobrandini



Cardinal Pietro Aldobrandini was fascinated with Greek mythology. Centaur, Faun (god Pan), Atlas, and Polyphemus in delle Acque.  :Reddevil: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ni...dobrandini.JPG

*Villa Aldrobandini - Teatro delle Acque
*

Another family.




> *Della Rovere* is a noble family of Italy. Coming from modest beginnings in Savona, Liguria, *the family rose to prominence through nepotism and ambitious marriages arranged by two Della Rovere popes, Francesco della Rovere, who ruled as Pope Sixtus IV (1471-1484) and his nephew Giuliano (Pope Julius II, 1503-1513).* Pope Sixtus IV is known for having built the Sistine Chapel, which is named for him. The Basilica San Pietro in Vincoli in Rome is the family church of the della Rovere.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_della_Rovere





> *Pope Julius II* (5 December 1443 – 21 February 1513), nicknamed "The Fearsome Pope" (Il Papa Terribile)[1] and "The Warrior Pope" (Il Papa Guerriero),[2] born Giuliano della Rovere, was Pope from 1503 to 1513. His papacy was marked by an active foreign policy, ambitious building projects, and patronage for the arts.
> 
> He was promoted to cardinal, taking the same title formerly held by his uncle, Cardinal of San Pietro in Vincula. With his uncle as Pope, he obtained great influence, and he held no fewer than eight bishoprics, including Lausanne from 1472, and Coutances from 1476, along with the archbishopric of Avignon.
> 
> In the capacity of papal legate he was sent to France in 1480, where he remained four years, and acquitted himself with such ability that he soon acquired a paramount influence in the College of Cardinals, an influence which increased rather than diminished during the pontificate of Pope Innocent VIII. Shortly after in 1483 an illegitimate daughter was born, Felice della Rovere.
> 
> Julius was not the first pope to have fathered children before being elevated to the Chair of St Peter. His only known daughter to survive to adulthood, Felice della Rovere, was born in 1483. Pompeo Litta mistakenly ascribed Felice's two daughters, Giulia and Clarice to Julius. Felice's mother was Lucrezia Normanni, the daughter of an old Roman family. Shortly after Felice was born, Julius II arranged for Lucrezia to marry Bernardino de Cupis. Bernardino was maestro di casa of Julius' cousin, Cardinal Girolamo Basso della Rovere.
> 
> Despite an illegitimate daughter, rumors also surrounded Julius about his sexuality. Casting himself in the role of a warrior inevitably created enemies for Julius—many of whom accused him of being a sodomite. This was almost certainly done to discredit him but perhaps, in doing so, accusers were attacking a perceived weak point in their adversary's character. Venetians—who were opposed to the pope's new militaristic policy—were amongst the most vocal, most notably the diarist Giralomo Priuli,[16] and the historian Marino Sanudo. The reputation survived him, and the accusation was used without reservation by Protestant opponents in their polemics against "papism" and Catholic decadence. Philippe de Mornay while he accused all Italians of being sodomites, added specifically: "This horror is ascribed to good Julius." These Protestant libels certainly lack credibility, just as do the Catholic libels which discussed Calvin's purported conviction for sodomy.
> ...


*Julius II's illegitimate daughter, Felice della Rovere (in black), on the left of the altar, at the top of the steps, portrayed by Raphael in The Mass at Bolsena.*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Raffael_090.jpg

Pope Julius II commissioned Raphael to decorate with frescoes the rooms that are now known as the Stanze di Raffaello, in the Palace of the Vatican.





> *The four Stanze di Raffaello* ("Raphael's rooms") in the Palace of the Vatican form a suite of reception rooms, the public part of the papal apartments. They are famous for their frescoes, painted by Raphael and his workshop. Together with Michelangelo's ceiling frescoes in the Sistine Chapel, they are the grand fresco sequences that mark the High Renaissance in Rome.
> The Stanze, as they are invariably called, were originally intended as a suite of apartments for Pope Julius II.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raphael_Rooms


*Raphael, The Parnassus or Apollo and Muses
*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ra...a,_1511%29.jpg

*Apollo and muses detail*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ra...Apollon%29.jpg

*Sappho*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Raffael_076.jpg






> *Mount Parnassus*, also Parnassos, is a mountain of limestone in central Greece that towers above Delphi, north of the Gulf of Corinth, and offers scenic views of the surrounding olive groves and countryside. According to Greek mythology, this mountain was sacred to Apollo and the Corycian nymphs, and the home of the Muses. The mountain was also favored by the Dorians. There is a theory that Parna- derived from the same root as the word in Luwian meaning House.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Parnassus


*Apollo and The Nine Muses*

http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/gust...ine-muses-1856

As the Oracle of Delphi was sacred to the god Apollo, so did the mountain itself become associated with Apollo.





> Apollo spoke through his oracle: the sibyl or priestess of the oracle at Delphi was known as the Pythia; she had to be an older woman of blameless life chosen from among the peasants of the area. She sat on a tripod seat over an opening in the earth. When Apollo slew Python, its body fell into this fissure, according to legend, and fumes arose from its decomposing body. Intoxicated by the vapors, the sibyl would fall into a trance, allowing Apollo to possess her spirit. In this state she prophesied. It has been postulated that a gas high in ethylene, known to produce violent trances, came out of this opening, though this theory remains debatable.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_of_Delphi#Oracle



*Eugene Delacroix, Apollo Slays Python*

http://www.eugenedelacroix.org/Apoll...hon-large.html


*John Collier - Priestess of Delphi*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jo..._of_Delphi.jpg





> The ageless Cumaean Sibyl was the priestess presiding over the Apollonian oracle at Cumae, a Greek colony located near Naples, Italy.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumaean_Sibyl


*Giovanni Domenico Cerrini, Apollo and the Cumaean Sibyl*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cerrini-apollo.jpg




The Cumaean Sibyl is one of the four sibyls painted by Raphael at Santa Maria della Pace.

*Raphael The Sibyls, Santa Maria della Pace, Rome*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ra...The_Sibyls.jpg



And Cumaean Sibyl at the Sistine Chapel.


*Michelangelo, Cumaean Sibyl* 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cu...chelangelo.jpg


I didn't expect to learn about mythology from Popes.  :FRlol:

----------


## ftil

Looking at Medicis family may explain why popes were fascinated with Roman /Greek mythology.  :Biggrinjester: 





> Marie de Médicis (1575  4 July 1642), Italian Maria de' Medici, was Queen consort of France, as the second wife of King Henry IV of France, of the House of Bourbon. She herself was a member of the wealthy and powerful House of Medici. Following the assassination of her husband in 1610, which occurred the day after her coronation, she acted as regent for her son, King Louis XIII of France, until he came of age.
> The marriage was not a successful one. The queen feuded with Henry's mistresses in language that shocked French courtiers. She quarreled mostly with her husband's leading mistress, Catherine Henriette de Balzac d'Entragues, whom he had promised he would marry following the death of his former "official mistress", Gabrielle d'Estrées. When he failed to do so, and instead married Marie, the result was constant bickering and political intrigues behind the scenes.
> She was noted for her ceaseless political intrigues at the French court and extensive artistic patronage.
> 
> The construction and furnishing of the Palais du Luxembourg, which she referred to as her "Palais Médicis", formed her major artistic project during her regency. The site was purchased in 1612 and construction began in 1615, to designs of Salomon de Brosse. Her court painter was Peter Paul Rubens.
> 
> A series of twenty-four triumphant canvases were commissioned from Peter Paul Rubens.Originally the paintings were hung clockwise in chronological order, decorating the walls of a waiting room expanding from a royal apartment in Marie de' Medici's Luxembourg Palace
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_de%27_Medici


The first painting of the narrative cycle, *The Destiny of Marie de' Medici*, is a twisting composition of the three Fates on clouds beneath the celestial figures of Juno and Jupiter.

http://www.peterpaulrubens.org/The-F...-25-large.html


*The Education of Marie de' Medici.* We see Apollo, Athena, and Hermes.

http://www.peterpaulrubens.org/The-E...-24-large.html



*Henry IV Receives the Portrait*

http://www.peterpaulrubens.org/Henry...ait-large.html




The upper half of the painting shows Marie and Henry as the mythological Roman gods Juno and Jupiter.

*The Meeting of Marie de Medicis and Henri IV at Lyon*

http://www.peterpaulrubens.org/The-M...-25-large.html




Maria depicted as Athena, a goddess of war.

*Marie de Medicis as Bellona*

http://www.peterpaulrubens.org/Marie...-25-large.html




*Paintings for Maria de Medici, Queen of France, scene the government of the queen.*  :Brow: 

http://www.peterpaulrubens.org/Paint...%29-large.html





> *Louis XIII* (27 September 1601  14 May 1643) was a Bourbon monarch who ruled as King of France and of Navarre from 1610 to 1643.
> Louis was only eight years old when he succeeded his father. His mother, Marie de Medici, acted as regent during Louis' minority.
> Louis XIII's paternal grandparents were Antoine de Bourbon, duc de Vendôme and Jeanne d'Albret, Queen of Navarre; his maternal grandparents were Francesco I de' Medici, Grand Duke of Tuscany and Johanna, archduchess of Austria, and Eleonora de' Medici, his maternal aunt, was his godmother.
> Cardinal Richelieu played a major role in Louis XIII's reign from 1624, decisively shaping the destiny of France for the next eighteen years. As a result of Richelieu's work, Louis XIII became one of the first examples of an absolute monarch.
> 
> Louis also worked to reverse the trend of promising French artists leaving for Italy to work and study. He commissioned the painters Nicolas Poussin and Philippe de Champaigne to decorate the Louvre.
> 
> There is no evidence that Louis had mistresses (consequently earning the title of 'Louis the Chaste'), but persistent rumors insinuated that he may have been homosexual or at least bisexual. 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_XIII_of_France







> *Louis XIV ( son of Lous XIII)* (5 September 1638  1 September 1715), known as Louis the Great or the Sun King (French: le Roi-Soleil), was a Bourbon monarch who ruled as King of France and Navarre.[1] He holds the distinction of being the longest-reigning king in European history, reigning for 72 years and 110 days.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_XIV_of_France





> *Louis XIV chose the sun for his emblem.* The sun was Apollo, god of Peace and the Arts; it was also the heavenly body giving life to all things, the embodiment of regularity, which rises and sets each day. Like the Sun God, Louis XIV, the warrior hero, brought peace to his people; he protected the arts and dispensed all the graces. Through the regularity of his work, his public levers and couchers (morning rising and evening retiring ceremonies), he insisted on the resemblance, carved in stone: the decor of Versailles was filled with the depictions and attributes of the god (laurels, lyre, tripod) on all the royal portraits and emblems. 
> http://en.chateauversailles.fr/histo...-by-divine-law






> Nec pluribus impar (literally: "Not unequal to many") is a Latin motto adopted by Louis XIV of France from 1658. It was often inscribed together with the symbol of the "Sun King": a head within rays of sunlight.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palace_of_Versailles


*The Nec pluribus impar motto and the sun-king emblem, on a de Vallière gun, 1745.*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ne...ibus_Impar.jpg



*The "S" letter (for Sun) with the motto Nec pluribus impar. Dictionnaire de l'Académie Française, 1694.*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:16...ibus_Impar.jpg





> *Grand appartement du roi*
> 
> Le Vaus plan called for an enfilade of seven rooms, each dedicated to one of the then known planets and their associated titular Roman deity. Le Vaus plan was bold as he designed a heliocentric system that centred on the Salon of Apollo. The salon dApollon originally was designed as the kings bedchamber, but served as a throne room. During the reign of Louis XIV (until 1689), a solid silver throne stood on a Persian carpet covered dais on the south wall of this room (Berger, 1986; Dangeau, 18541860; Josephson, 1926; 1930; Verlet, 1985).
> The original arrangement of the enfilade of rooms was:
> *Salon de Diane* (Diana, Roman goddess of the hunt; associated with the Moon)*Salon de Mars* (Mars, Roman god of war; associated with the planet Mars)*Salon de Mercure* (Mercury, Roman god of trade, commerce, and the Liberal Arts; associated with the planet Mercury)*Salon dApollon* (Apollo, Roman god of the Fine Arts; associated with the Sun)*Salon de Jupiter* (Jupiter, Roman god of law and order; associated with the planet Jupiter)*Salon de Saturne* (Saturn, Roman god of agriculture and harvest; associated with the planet Saturn)*Salon de Vénus* (Venus, Roman goddess of love and beauty; associated with the planet Venus)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palace_of_Versailles


The Apollo Salon is the main room of the Grand Apartment because it was originally the monarch's state chamber.

*Salon d'Apollo*

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier...Versailles.jpg

*Salon d'Apollo*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...RS_DU_JOUR.jpg

----------


## ftil

I have noticed that The Art Thread is fully alive with paintings. What a great surprise!

http://www.online-literature.com/for...t=64250&page=3




I have been looking at Grand Apartment of Louis XIV,. 

Solon of Mercury. An interesting paintings of Holly Family and god Mercury Greek god Hermes. 





*RAPHAËL*





*Titian*



And Mercury/Hermes







> *HERMES* was the great Olympian God of animal husbandry, roads, travel, hospitality, heralds, diplomacy, trade, thievery, language, writing, persuasion, cunning wiles, athletic contests, gymnasiums, astronomy, and astrology. He was also the personal agent and herald of Zeus, the king of the gods. Hermes was depicted as either a handsome and athletic, beardless youth, or as an older bearded man. His attributes included the herald's wand or kerykeion (Latin caduceus), winged boots, and sometimes a winged travellers cap and chlamys cloak.





*Hermes, messenger of the gods, flies on winged boots. He holds his kerykeion or herald's wand in hand, and wears a petasos (traveller's cap) and chlamys (cloak) ca 500 - 450 BC* 





> *GOD OF DREAMS OF OMEN*
> 
> Dreams of omen were messages sent by the gods and the ghosts of the dead. Hermes presided over these, both in his role as the Herald of the Gods (the agent of all divine messages), the God of Sleep, and as Guide of the Dead, who traversed the paths between the lands of the living and the dead.
> 
> "Dreams (Oneiroi) are beyond our unravelling - who can be sure what tale they tell? Not all that men look for comes to pass. Two gates there are that give passage to fleeting Oneiroi; one is made of horn, one of ivory. The Oneiroi that pass through sawn ivory are deceitful, bearing a message that will not be fulfilled; those that come out through polished horn have truth behind them, to be accomplished for men who see them." - *Homer, Odyssey 19.562*
> 
> "[Hermes] held in his hand the golden rod that he uses to lull mens eyes asleep when he so wills, or again to wake others from their slumber; with this he roused them [the ghosts of the newly dead] and led them on, and they followed him, thinly gibbering ... Hermes led them down through the ways of dankness. They passed the streams of Oceanus, the 'Leukas Petre' (White Rock), the 'Pylai Helion' (Gates of the Sun) and the 'Demos Oneiron' (Land of Dreams), and soon they came to the 'Leimon Asphodelon' (Field of Asphodel) where the Psyche (souls) ... have their habitation." - *Homer, Odyssey 24.1 & 99*
> 
> "She [Maia] bare a son [Hermes] ... a bringer of dreams, a watcher by night." - *Homeric Hymn 4 to Hermes*
> ...





*France*






*Hermes Kriophoros*





"Commerce": Mercury, god of commerce, with his winged cap and sandals and caduceus, hands a bag of gold to en:Robert Morris, financier of the Revolutionary War. On the left, men move a box on a dolly; on the right, the anchor and sailors lead into the next scene, "Marine."





*Jupiter, Mercury and the Virtue, Dosso Dossi*





*Sculpted corbel showing a caduceus. Detail of the façade of a building at 9th Calle de Antonio Maura (street) in Madrid.*






*Russell A. Dixon Building Caduceus (Washington, DC)*







*"Medicine", sculpture by Alonzo Victor Lewis, 1922. North face of Miller Hall, University of Washington, Seattle, Washington, USA. One of many sculptures by Lewis for this building*

----------


## ftil

My joy to post paintings didnt last long. I guess my post on the art thread evoked anxiety.
I dont romanticize nudity but I show as it is and it has become ugly in modern art.
Time for magic. I have realized that I had a limited understanding of magic. I didnt believe in demons. I didnt believe in conjuring demons either until I studied occult books. Well, Paul Coelho was taking about black magicians. Lets look at Giordano Bruno, a renaissance magician and occultist. 




> *On magic*
> 
> As with any other topic, before we begin our treatise On Magic, it is necessary to distinguish the various meanings of the term, for there are as many meanings of magic as there are of magician.
> 
> *First,* the term magician means a wise man; for example, the trismegistes among the Egyptians, the druids among the Gauls, the gymnosophists among the Indians, the cabalists among the Hebrews, the magi among the Persians (who were followers of Zoroaster), the sophists among the Greeks and the wise men among the Latins. 
> 
> *Second,* magician refers to someone who does wondrous things merely by manipulating active and passive powers, as occurs in chemistry, medicine and such ﬁelds; this is commonly called natural magic. 
> 
> *Third,* magic involves circumstances such that the actions of nature or of a higher intelligence occur in such a way as to excite wonderment by their appearances; this type of magic is called prestidigitation. 
> ...


And more about magic.





> The spirit is also bonded through vision, as has been said frequently above, when various forms are observed by the eyes. As a result, active and passive items of interest pass out from the eyes and enter into the eyes. As the adage says, I do not know whose eyes make lambs tender for me. 
> 
> Beautiful sights arouse feelings of love, and contrary sights bring feelings of disgrace and hate. And the emotions of the soul and spirit bring something additional to the body itself, which exists under the control of the soul and the direction of the spirit. There are also other types of feelings which come through the eyes and immediately aﬀect the body for some reason: sad expressions in other people make us sad and compassionate and sorry for obvious reasons.
> 
> There are also worse impressions which enter the soul and the body, but it is not evident how this happens and we are unable to judge the issue. Nevertheless, they act very powerfully through various things which are in us, that is, through a multitude of spirits and souls. Although one soul lives in the whole body, and all the bodys members are controlled by one soul, still the whole body and the whole soul and the parts of the universe are viviﬁed by a certain total spirit.
> 
> Hence, the explanation of many spiritual feelings must be found in something else which lives and is conscious in us, and which is affcted and disturbed by things which do not affect or disturb us. And sometimes we are touched and injured more signiﬁcantly by those things whose assaults we are not aware of than we are by things which we do perceive. As a result, many things which are seen, and forms which are absorbed through the eyes, do not arouse any consciousness in our direct and external sensory powers. Nevertheless, they do penetrate more deeply and lethally, so that the internal spirit is immediately conscious of them, as if it were a foreign sense or living thing. Thus, it would not be easy to refute some of the Platonists and all of the Pythagoreans, who believe that one human person of himself lives in many animals, and when one of these animals dies, even the most important one, the others survive for a long time.
> 
> Hence, it would obviously be stupid to think that we are affcted and injured only by those visible forms which generate clear awareness in the senses and the soul. That would not be much different from someone who thinks that he is injured more or less only by blows of which he is more or less conscious. However, we experience more discomfort and suffering by being pricked by a needle or by a thorn irritating the skin than we do by a sword thrust through from one side of the body to the other, whose eﬀect is later felt a great deal more, but at the time we are unaware of the injury caused by its penetration of parts of the body. 
> ...






> According to Walker, the magic of Ficino used the human spiritus as its medium through which it worked. The spirit was the link between body and soul, and the human functions of sense-perception, imagination, and motor activity were connected to the spiritus. The human spiritus was made up of the four elements, and it formed a corporeal vapor that flowed from the brain, where it had its center, through the nervous system. Furthermore, the human spirit was connected to the spiritus mundi, which mostly consisted of the fifth element quinta essential or ether. Ficino considered music as especially connected to the human spiritus, since it used the same element as its medium - air. But more important than that, the sound consisted of movements where visionary impressions merely transmitted static images. These two reasons caused sound to affect the spirit more effectively than sight, and since it is in the spiritus that magic works, sounds were considered more potent than visual impressions. What the magician saw or felt was thus secondary to what he heard.Ficino used music in his magical workings. He composed hymns or put music to such texts as the Orphic Hymns
> Western Esotericism and Rituals of Initiation by Henrik Bogdan







> Magic action occurs through indirect contact(virtualem seu potetialem) through sound and images which excert their power over the senses of sight and hearing.(Theses de magia XV, vol. III p.466) Pasing through the openings of the senses, they impress on the imagination certain mental states of attraction or aversion, of joy or revulsion (ibid)
> Sounds and images are not chosen at random; they stem from the occult knowledge of the universal spirit. With regard to sounds, the manipulator should know that tragic harmonies give rise to more passions that comic ones, being able to act on souls in doubt.There, too, it is necessary to take account of the subjects personality for, though there are some people easily influenced there are others who react in an unexpected way to the magic of sound.
> 
> All affections are bonds of the will are reduced to two namely aversion and desire or hatred and love.Yet hatred itself is reduced to love, whence it follows that the will only bond is Eros. We see that the goal of Brunos erotic magic is to enable a manipulator to control both individuals and crowds. Everything is defined in relation to Eros, since aversion and hatred merely represents the negative side of the same universal attraction.
> Love, Eros in Renaissance Ioan P. Culianu






> The artist is not a person endowed with free will who seeks his own ends, but one who allows art to realize its purposes through him. As a human being he may have moods and a will and personal aims, but as an artist he is 'man' in a higher sense - he is 'collective man,' a vehicle and moulder of the unconscious psychic life of mankind.
> (Carl Jung, Psychology and Literature, 1930)





> The work of Frances Yates especially influential in anglophone scholarship, argues that Bruno was deeply influenced by the astronomy found in Arab astrology Neo-Platonism and Renaissance Hermeticism.
> The Asclepius and the Corpus Hermeticum are the most important of the Hermetica, writings attributed to Hermes Trismegistus, which survive. During the Renaissance it was accepted that Hermes Trismegistus was a contemporary of Moses, however after Casaubons dating of the Hermetic writings as no earlier than the second or third century CE, the whole of Renaissance Hermeticism collapsed. As to their actual authorship:
> .....they were certainly not written in remotest antiquity by an all wise Egyptian priest, as the Renaissance believed, but by various unknown authors, all probably Greeks, and they contain popular Greek philosophy of the period, a mixture of Platonism and Stoicism, combined with some Jewish and probably some Persian influences.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermes_Trismegistus






> "Though cast in a pseudo-Egyptian framework,these works have been thought by many scholars to contain very few genuine Egyptian elements. they were certainly not written in remotest antiquity by an all-wise Egyptian priest, as the Renaissance believed, but by various unknown authors, all probably Greeks, and they contain popular Greek philosophy of the period, a mixture of Platonism and Stoicism, combined with some Jewish and probably some Persian influences.
> The content of the Hermetic writings fostered the illusion of the Renaissance Magus that he had in them a mysterious and precious account of most ancient Egyptian wisdom, philosophy, and magic. Hermes Trismegistus, a mythical name associated with a certain class of Gnostic philosophical revelations or with magical treatises and recipes, was, for the Renaissance, a real person, an Egyptian priest who had lived in times of remote antiquity and who had himself written all these works.
> 
> It was on excellent authority that the Renaissance accepted Hermes Trismegistus as a real person of great antiquity and as the author of the Hermetic writings, for this was implicitly believed by leading Fathers of the Church, particularly Lactantius and Augustine. "
> Francis Yates, Giordano Bruno and the Hermetic Tradition



Lets look at Vicca and neopagan religion. I was laughing because I learned from where 9 million of burnt witches comes from.

G. Gardner was instrumental in bringing the neopagan religion of Wicca to public attention and wrote some of its definitive religious texts.







> Gerald Brosseau Gardner (1884  1964), also known by the craft name Scire, was an English Wiccan priest, as well as an amateur anthropologist and archaeologist, writer, weaponry expert and occultist.
> In 1910 he was initiated as an Apprentice Freemason into a Lodge of the Irish Constitution (Sphinx Lodge No 107) in Colombo. He took the second and third degrees of Freemasonry within the next month, but this enthusiasm seems also to have waned and he resigned the next year. He joined the Rosicrucian Order Crotona Fellowship, an occult society based upon Rosicrucianism. However, Gardner was quite critical of many of the group's practices; their leader, who went by the name of Aurelius, claimed to be the reincarnation of Pythagoras, Cornelius Agrippa and Francis Bacon.
> 
> He joined the Ancient Druid Order, an organisation that promoted the Neopagan religion of Druidry, as well as a mystical Christian group, the Ancient British Church, who ordained him as a priest. The researcher Philip Heselton also speculated that Gardner may well have met Dion Byngham, the leader of the pagan wing of the Order of Woodcraft Chivalry, whose beliefs and practices, termed Dionisianism after the Greco-Roman god Dionysus, bore many similarities with Gardnerian Wicca.
> 
> On May Day 1947, his friend, the stage magician Arnold Crowther, introduced Gardner to his friend, the Magus Aleister Crowley. Shortly before his death, Crowley elevated Gardner to the VII° of Ordo Templi Orientis[55] (O.T.O.) and issued a charter decreeing that Gardner could perform its preliminary initiation rituals. After Crowley's death on 1 December 1947, Gardner was considered the highest ranking O.T.O. member in Europe.
> 
> He also had several tattoos on his body, depicting magical symbols such as a snake, dragon, anchor and dagger. In his later life he wore a "heavy bronze bracelet... denoting the three degrees... of witchcraft" as well as a "large silver ring with... signs on it, which... represented his witch-name 'Scire', in the letters of the magical Theban alphabet."
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Gardner



Let's see a bigger picture. I need to start with Starhawk, the author of The Spiral Dance: A Rebirth of the Ancient Religion of the Great Goddess (1979), a best-selling introduction to Wiccan teachings and rituals.





> Starhawk (born Miriam Simos on June 17, 1951) is an American writer and activist. Starhawk received a BA in Fine Arts from UCLA. She received an MA in Psychology, with a concentration in feminist therapy, from Antioch University West in 1982.
> 
> Following her years at UCLA, after a failed attempt to become a fiction writer in New York City, Starhawk returned to California. She became active in the Neopagan community in the San Francisco Bay Area, and trained with Victor Anderson, founder of the Feri Tradition of witchcraft, and with Zsuzsanna Budapest, a feminist separatist involved in Dianic Wicca.
> 
> She is well known as a theorist of Paganism.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starhawk


So, she is not a historian....but feminist therapist. Let's see what she says about neopagan religion.





> Starhawk offers a vivid summary of the history of the faith, explaining that witchcraft is "perhaps the oldest religion extant in the West" and that it began "more than thirty-five thousand years ago," during the last Ice Age. The religion's earliest adherents worshiped two deities, one of each sex: "the Mother Goddess, the birthgiver, who brings into existence all life," and the "Horned God," a male hunter who died and was resurrected each year.
> 
> Male shamans "dressed in skins and horns in identification with the God and the herds," but priestesses "presided naked, embodying the fertility of the Goddess." All over prehistoric Europe people made images of the Goddess, sometimes showing her giving birth to the "Divine Childher consort, son, and seed." They knew her as a "triple Goddess"practitioners today usually refer to her as maiden, mother, cronebut fundamentally they saw her as one deity. Each year these prehistoric worshipers celebrated the seasonal cycles, which led to the "eight feasts of the Wheel": the solstices, the equinoxes, and four festivalsImbolc (February 2, now coinciding with the Christian feast of Candlemas), Beltane (May Day), Lammas or Lughnasad (in early August), and Samhain (our Halloween).
> 
> Then came Christianity, which eventually insinuated itself among Europe's ruling elite. Still, the "Old Religion" lived, often in the guise of Christian practices.
> [url]http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2001/01/the-scholars-and-the-goddess/5910/


We need to go back to Gardner.






> Gardner developed his own variant of the Craft that has come to be named after him, Gardnerian Wicca. This combined the teachings he had received from the New Forest coven with ideas taken from a number of other sources, including Freemasonry, ceremonial magic, mediaeval grimoires and the writings of the occultist Aleister Crowley whom Gardner knew personally.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Gardner






> The Rosicrucian Order Crotona Fellowship was a Rosicrucian group founded by George Alexander Sullivan in about 1924.
> Sabina Magliocco, in her examination of the influences of the study of folklore on the development of Wicca, considers it possible that by the late 1930s some members of the Crotona Fellowship were performing Wicca-like rituals based on Co-Masonry, and that this was the group referred to by Gerald Gardner as the 'New Forest Coven'.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Forest_coven







> One night in September 1939 they took him to a large house owned by "Old Dorothy" Clutterbuck, a wealthy local woman, where he was made to strip naked and taken through an initiation ceremony. Halfway through the ceremony, he heard the word "Wica", and he recognized it as an Old English word for witchcraft. He was already acquainted with Margaret Murray's theory of the Witch-cult. This group, he claimed, were the New Forest coven, and he believed them to be one of the few surviving covens of the ancient, pre-Christian Witch-Cult religion.
> 
> In 1954, Gardner published a non-fiction book, Witchcraft Today, containing a preface by Margaret Murray, who had published her theory of a surviving Witch-Cult in her 1921 book, The Witch-Cult in Western Europe. In his book, Gardner not only espoused the survival of the Witch-Cult, but also his theory that a belief in faeries in Europe was due to a secretive pygmy race that lived alongside other communities, and that the Knights Templar had been initiates of the Craft.
> 
> Subsequent research by the likes of Hutton and Heselton has shown that in fact the New Forest coven was probably only formed in the early 20th century, based upon such sources as folk magic and the theories of Margaret Murray.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Gardner



So, he believed that he found pre-Christian Witch-Cult religion.

Let's see what scholars wrote.






> In 1998 Philip G. Davis, a professor of religion at the University of Prince Edward Island, published Goddess Unmasked: The Rise of Neopagan Feminist Spirituality, which argued that Wicca was the creation of an English civil servant and amateur anthropologist named Gerald B. Gardner. Although Gardner claimed to have learned Wiccan lore from a centuries-old coven of witches who also belonged to the Fellowship of Crotona, Davis wrote that no one had been able to locate the coven and that Gardner had invented the rites he trumpeted, borrowing from rituals created early in the twentieth century by the notorious British occultist Aleister Crowley, among others. Wiccans today, by their own admission, have freely adapted and embellished Gardner´s rites.
> 
> In 1999 Ronald Hutton, a well-known historian of pagan British religion who teaches at the University of Bristol, published The Triumph of the Moon. Hutton, like Davis, could find no conclusive evidence of the coven from which Gardner said he had learned the Craft, and argued that the "ancient" religion Gardner claimed to have discovered was a mélange of material from relatively modern sources.
> 
> Gardner seems to have drawn on the work of two people: Charles Godfrey Leland, a nineteenth-century amateur American folklorist who professed to have found a surviving cult of the goddess Diana in Tuscany, and Margaret Alice Murray, a British Egyptologist who herself drew on Leland´s ideas and, beginning in the 1920s, created a detailed framework of ritual and belief. From his own experience Gardner included such Masonic staples as blindfolding, initiation, secrecy, and "degrees" of priesthood. He incorporated various Tarot-like paraphernalia, including wands, chalices, and the five-pointed star, which, enclosed in a circle, is the Wiccan equivalent of the cross.
> http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...-goddess/5910/



Who was Margaret Murray?





> Margaret Alice Murray (13 July 1863 - 13 November 1963), British Egyptologist and anthropologist, known for her work in Egyptology, which was "the core of her academic career," she is also known for her propagation of the Witch-cult hypothesis, the theory that the witch trials in the Early Modern period of Christianized Europe and North America were an attempt to extinguish a surviving pre-Christian, pagan religion devoted to a Horned God. Whilst this theory is today widely disputed and discredited by historians like Norman Cohn, Keith Thomas and Ronald Hutton, it has had a significant effect in the origins of Neopagan religions, primarily Wicca, a faith she supported.
> Murray's best known and most controversial text, The Witch-Cult in Western Europe, was published in 1921.





> Ever since the first publication of Witch Cult in Western Europe 1921, Murray's theory has come under criticism for flaws in its use of evidence, with later historian Ronald Hutton remarking that it consisted of "a few well-known works by Continental demonologists, a few tracts printed in England and quite a number of published records of Scottish witch trials. The much greater amount of unpublished evidence was absolutely ignored." Various critics, including historian Norman Cohn and folklorist Jacqueline Simpson, have highlighted what they see as Murray's "extreme selectivity" in choosing only sources that backed her argument, and ignoring those that did not.
> 
> In a 1922 review of The Witch-Cult in Western Europe in the Folklore journal for instance, W.B. Halliday, an expert on ancient religion, dismissed her theory, and noted that her hypothesis relied upon "documents torn from the background of their own age and divorced from the serious study of their historical antecedents.
> 
> In 1962, Canadian historian Elliot Rose published A Razor for a Goat: A Discussion of Certain Problems in Witchcraft and Diabolism, in which he provided one of the first popular history books to openly criticize Murray's interpretation.
> 
> Jacqueline Simpson blames contemporary historians for doing little to refute Murray's ideas at the time they were written. It has been claimed by Norman Cohn that in the thirties her books led to the founding of Murrayite covens (small circles of witches), one of which taught Gerald Gardner in the 1940s.
> 
> In the 1950s Gardner publicized Wicca, a form of pagan religious witchcraft, which in turn helped to inspire the modern Neopagan movement. The phrase "the Old Religion," used by Wiccans and Neopagans to describe an ancestral pagan religion, derives from Murrays theory. Other Wiccan terms and concepts like coven, esbat, the Wiccan Wheel of the Year, and the Horned God are, it has been suggested, influenced by or derived directly from Murray's works. Her ideas also inspired other writers, ranging from horror authors like H. P. Lovecraft and Dennis Wheatley to Robert Graves. The character of the obsessed academic Rose Lorimer in Angus Wilson's 1956 novel Anglo-Saxon Attitudes is said to have been inspired in part by Murray and Frances Yates.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Murray



And an intelligent way of defending her theory.  :Brow: 






> Murray was also a believer and a practitioner of magic, performing spells such as cursing against those whom she felt deserved it: as Ronald Hutton noted, "Once she carried out a ritual to blast a fellow academic whose promotion she believed to have been undeserved, by mixing up ingredients in a frying pan in the presence of two colleagues. The victim actually did become ill, and had to change jobs. This was only one among a number of such acts of malevolent magic she perpetrates, and which the friend who recorded them assumed (rather nervously) were pranks, with coincidental effects."
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Murray



Lets go back to the Starhawk.






> Starhawk offers a vivid summary of the history of the faith, explaining that witchcraft is "perhaps the oldest religion extant in the West" and that it began "more than thirty-five thousand years ago," during the last Ice Age. The religion's earliest adherents worshiped two deities, one of each sex: "the Mother Goddess, the birthgiver, who brings into existence all life," and the "Horned God," a male hunter who died and was resurrected each year.
> 
> In all probability, not a single element of the Wiccan story is true. The evidence is overwhelming that Wicca is a distinctly new religion, a 1950s concoction influenced by such things as Masonic ritual and a late-nineteenth-century fascination with the esoteric and the occult, and that various assumptions informing the Wiccan view of history are deeply flawed. Furthermore, scholars generally agree that there is no indication, either archaeological or in the written record, that any ancient people ever worshipped a single, archetypal goddessa conclusion that strikes at the heart of Wiccan belief.
> http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...-goddess/5910/



For example, the number of gods in Babylon and Assyria exceeded three thousand. The priests cataloged deities. The old gods disappeared, and in their place appeared new. Sometimes, forgotten gods combined several deities in one, or vice versa - with some new one arose.


Let's look at nine million burnt witches. My oh my......I believed that it was true.  :FRlol: 






> During "the Burning Times," Starhawk wrote, some nine million were executed. The Old Religion went more deeply underground, its traditions passed down secretly in families and among trusted friends, until it resurfaced in the twentieth century. Like their ancient forebears, Wiccans revere the Goddess, practice shamanistic magic of a harmless variety, and celebrate the eight feasts, or sabbats, sometimes in the nude.
> 
> Subject to slight variations, this story is the basis of many hugely popular Goddess handbooks. It also informs the writings of numerous secular feministsGloria Steinem, Marilyn French, Barbara Ehrenreich, Deirdre Englishto whom the ascendancy of "the patriarchy" or the systematic terrorization of strong, independent women by means of witchcraft trials are historical givens. Moreover, elements of the story suffuse a broad swath of the intellectual and literary fabric of the past hundred years, from James Frazer's The Golden Bough and Robert Graves's The White Goddess to the novels of D. H. Lawrence, from the writings of William Butler Yeats and T. S. Eliot to Jungian psychology and the widely viewed 1988 public-television series The Power of Myth.
> 
> The figure Starhawk citednine million executed over four centuriesderives from a late-eighteenth-century German historian; it was picked up and disseminated a hundred years later by a British feminist named Matilda Gage and quickly became Wiccan gospel (Gardner himself coined the phrase "the Burning Times"). Most scholars today believe that the actual number of executions is in the neighborhood of 40,000. The most thorough recent study of historical witchcraft is Witches and Neighbors (1996), by Robin Briggs, a historian at Oxford University. Briggs pored over the documents of European witch trials and concluded that most of them took place during a relatively short period, 1550 to 1630, and were largely confined to parts of present-day France, Switzerland, and Germany that were already racked by the religious and political turmoil of the Reformation. The accused witches, far from including a large number of independent-minded women, were mostly poor and unpopular. Their accusers were typically ordinary citizens (often other women), not clerical or secular authorities. In fact, the authorities generally disliked trying witchcraft cases and acquitted more than half of all defendants. Briggs also discovered that none of the accused witches who were found guilty and put to death had been charged specifically with practicing a pagan religion.
> 
> Hutton effectively demolished the notion, held by Wiccans and others, that fundamentally pagan ancient customs existed beneath medieval Christian practices. His research reveals that outside of a handful of traditions, such as decorating with greenery at Yuletide and celebrating May Day with flowers, no pagan practicesmuch less the veneration of pagan godshave survived from antiquity. Hutton found that nearly all the rural seasonal pastimes that folklorists once viewed as "timeless" fertility rituals, including the Maypole dance, actually date from the Middle Ages or even the eighteenth century.
> 
> Hutton has also pointed out a lack of evidence that either the ancient Celts or any other pagan culture celebrated all the "eight feasts of the Wheel" that are central to Wiccan liturgy. "The equinoxes seem to have no native pagan festivals behind them and became significant only to occultists in the nineteenth century," Hutton told me. "There is still no proven pagan feast that stood as ancestor to Easter"a festival that modern pagans celebrate as Ostara, the vernal equinox.
> ...


Who was Matilda Gage?





> Matilda Electa Joslyn Gage (Cicero, New York, March 24, 1826  March 18, 1898 in Chicago) was a suffragist, a Native American activist. She became a Theosophist and encouraged her children and their spouses to do so, some of whom did.
> 
> Her daughter, Maud, initially horrified her mother when she chose to marry The Wonderful Wizard of Oz author L. Frank Baum.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matilda_Joslyn_Gage






> Later, he and his wife, encouraged by Matilda Joslyn Gage, became Theosophists, in 1897. He wrote 17 of Oz books. One is titled The Emerld city of Oz.
> In 1900, Baum and Denslow (with whom he shared the copyright) published The Wonderful Wizard of Oz to much critical acclaim and financial success.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Frank_Baum


A circle of mutual admiration is getting smaller.  :Tongue: 


Let's look at demons and Egyptian Book of Dead.

I have noticed that links don't work. Interesting.

I guess attack from demons.  :Ciappa: 





> Egyptians believed in existence of spirits of deceased humans, deities and supernatural beings whose identities were never precisely defined. Egyptians gave a specific name and attributes to those beings rather than defining them as  demons In fact, no ancient Egyptian term exist that could be translated into demon, distinguishing demons from deities. Lucarelli interprets the demons of the Realm of the Dead as beings made of flesh and blood , as already proposed by Matthieu Heerma van Voss rather than as daimonen in the Greek mythology.





> *THE DAIMONES KHRYSEOI* (Daemones Chrysei) were thirty thousand air-dwelling spirits who watched over the deeds of man and rewarded the just with with agricultural bounty. They were originally the Golden race of man who had lived a lfie of virtue in the time of Kronos (Cronus). After death the whole tribe was transformed into beneficient daimones. The Daimones Khryseoi (Golden Spirits) were superior to the Daimones Argeoi (or Silver Spirits)--the former resided in the air, while the latter dwelt within the earth.
> http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/DaimonesKhryseoi.html




*The Book of the Dead of Hunefer, sheet 7*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Book_of_the_Dead_of_Hunefer_sheet_7.jpg?usela ng=pl



*The Book of the Dead of Hunefer, sheet 5*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Book_of_the_Dead_of_Hunefer_sheet_5.jpg?usela ng=pl




> The existence of demons in Egyptian beliefs can be recognized by comparing demons and deities with respect to their function appearance and status as Egyptians gave names to the supernatural beings defining what those beings do and as such there were categorized as malevolent and benevolent. Consequently, two classes of demons were recognized wonderers and guardians. Wonderers who may act as emissaries for deities or on their own accord bring diseases, nightly terror, and misfortune. On the other hand, guardians who are tied to specific region protect from intrusion and pollution. In Ptolemaic and Roman Periods they were regarded as deities.


*Anubis weighing the heart of Hunefer.*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Weighing_of_the_heart3.jpg?uselang=pl




> Demons being subordinate to gods posses special powers that is limited to a single task or they act under the command of a deity. Postulates that since demons act as emissaries of gods they are creation of gods. The Book of the Dead not only depicts individual demons occurring in isolated spells, but also classes of demons having collective names. Individual demons inhibit the netherworld. For instances, "the Fighters in Helio- polis" who threaten to take away the heart of the deceased in Ch. 28 of the Book of the Dead. Collective demons, on the other hand,inhibit both the netherworld and earth and can be found in the magical texts of the New Kingdom and later, which are concerned with daily magic and the world of the living. In the New Kingdom these demons were considered as having a stronger influence on earth than in the netherworld. There are hundreds of names and epithets of demons in the Book of the Dead. For instance, the"devourers" or "swallowers" are found rather often in the Book of the Dead. The act of devouring of human beings, animals or dead persons was a threat especially employed by demons of the ancient Egyptian netherworld. The most famous creature mentioned in the Book of the Dead that belongs to the devourers is "the devourer of the dead", a hybrid animal form and is said to swallow the deceased's heart. The devourers action is directed only against evil-doers and those who have no knowledge of the mysteries of the netherworld. The deceased faces the demon and his task is to avoid the demon's destructive power.


*Ammut*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:AmmutPapyrus.jpg?uselang=pl




> Disembodied spirits who may show demonic nature are manifestation of deceased humans in netherworld. They acquire supernatural status after transformation generated by death and ritual. In contrast to demons ( mwt) who are always malevolent, those spirits can be benevolent or malevolent.Both demons and spirits of the dead are listed in spells due to the fact that they both can be harmful to humans.
> 
> Demons act on the border of order and chaos. They can manifest as a single entity or in pair or in a group. Wonderers that may travel in groups are under control of Ra or Osiris and act upon the will of gods and bring punishment to the earth or netherworld. In other cases, they act upon own will and bring misfortune or cause chaos. Egyptians believed that the influence of demons can be tempered by the use of magic. Nevertheless, it can not be fully destroyed. Wandering demons can cause certain physical and mental diseases or symptoms. For example, the demon Sahqeq can cause headache. Nightmares were also understood a caused by demons. Egyptians believed that nightmare demons could enter a human body from the outside therefore they were considered as a subcategory of wandering demons.In this sense they can be considered as the Egyptian equivalent of medieval incubi and succubi.
> 
> However, the sexual assault that is characteristic to incubi and succubi is not explicit in Egyptian spells.






> Demonic possession could not only happened during the night but also during awaking . Moreover, wondering demons could enter and haunt houses. In fact, magical spells contain a list of the parts of the house that can be defended against demons. Demons can move between the earth and beyond. When demons act as guardians of gates to the netherworld, they can be benevolent if the deceased possess the magic to face them.
> 
> Both gods and demons are messengers and can act against humankind. Demons may sent death plague by furies goddess Sakhmet and Bastet. The slaughterers"- evil-bringers are mainly related to Sekhmet in her aggressive and potentially destructive aspect The role of the slaughterers in relation to the deceased of the Book of the Dead is a rather terrifying one: he attempts to make them content by praising them.





> An extremely important topic of the ancient Egyptian funerary literature of the New Kingdom, involves the protection of the heart, which indirectly recalls the final judgment, the moment in which destructive forces and dangers in general, as symbolized by demons,reached their apex in the Realm of the Dead and therefore the deceased needed the protection of funerary magic.
> 
> In the Late Period and Ptolemiac and Roman Periods as the astrology gained prominence in Egyptian religious thought a certain astral bodies if Northern constellation were demonized. For instance, a certain astral bodies that were depicted on the astronomical ceiling of temples and tombs corresponded with demonic inhibitants called  mounds of netherworld as were described in Spell 149 of the Book of the Dead.


*Spell 151*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ani_LDM_151.jpg?uselang=pl





> Guardian, on the other hand, can be benevolent toward those who have the secret knowledge of their names as well as the knowledge how to face them. They attached to a specific places like pool, river or mauntain from where they attack the passerby. Similarly, other system of beliefs, for example Hellenistic world recognized the existence of such demons. Their aggressive nature is a result of the need to protect their abode. Thus, they differ from disease demons who attack the human body or places that dont belong to them. They are described in the spells 144-147 of the Book of dead and the book of netherworld. Their dreadful nature made them suitable to protect sacred places and as such they took on the role of temple genni in Late and Ptolemaic Periods. Guardian demons have hybrid human animal appearance. In ancient Egypt teriomorphic traits accentuate most fearful aspects of demons stress those beings otherness Snakes, feline, reptailes, bulls, goats, scorpions, falcons or vultures can be a part of demonic body. This iconography is similar to deities depicted in animal or hybrid forms. Typical of demonic iconography are fantastic animals or monstrous iconographies that combine 2 or 3 animal and humans into one body, for example Ammut crocodile, leo and hippothe devourer of the dead Funerary compositions depict demons with snakes and anthropomorphic legs, multiple heads or wings. Those demons serve as benevolent or malevolent guardians. Gigantic python, Apep, is their prototype. But Apep is not considered as demon due to his cosmic role of being the enemy of Ra.


*Book of the Dead spell 87 and 88 from the Papyrus of Ani
*
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ani_LDM_82_87_88.jpg?uselang=pl



*A minor demon, Qed-Her had the head of a cat from which two serpents emerge and Knife Wielding demons seated before gates of the netherworld.*
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/minorgods.htm



*Atum and Apep*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apep_1.jpg




*Detail from the papyrus of Hunefer; the sun god represented as a cat kills the serpent of darkness with a knife.
*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Papyrus_of_Hunefer,_detail.jpg?uselang=pl




> The guardians of the Book of the Dead are representation of a hybrid creature with human body and animal head. Even though their appearance is not different from gods depicted in hybrid forms, the repertoire of the animals is more varied reptiles, felines, canines, donkeys, baboons, hippopotami, goats, bulls, insects, scorpions, and birds such as falcons and vultures. The role of the guardian-demons is that of opening the gates of the netherworld for Osiris. In fact, the private funerary sphere to which the Book of the Dead spells refer gains an amplified cosmogonical and ritual dimension that concerns the rebirth and power of Osiris in the netherworld.


*Egyptian Book of Dead*

http://www.egyptsbookofthedead.com/cont.php




> Both funerary magic that involves opening the gates of the netherworld and temple ritual where the rituals were performed are based on opening the way through gates and doors that separate different domains (earth/netherworld, pure/impure, sacred/profane).
> 
> The guardian demons become therefore the link among funerary and daily ritual magic. In BD 145 the deceased declares in front of the gates 
> Make way for me, since I know you, I know your name, I know the name of the god who guards you.
> 
> Besides the fantastic creatures, the netherworld was the abode of animals considered as dangerous such as reptiles or insects or impure such as pigs or donkey that belong to the destructive god Seth. A spell s in Pyramid text or coffin text aim at protecting against snakes considered as an enemy of sun god. Magical and ritual objects depict demons being submitted and controlled by anthropomorphic deities who act as protectors. The example is Horus stele or Horus Shed.


*Horus*

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/childgod.htm
Horus shed on snakes





> Encounters with creatures who watch over passages that are represented as gates, portals are described in Book of Dead 144-147. Doors or door watchers of the netherworld can also be found in other ancient Egyptian funerary text such as Book of gate or Book of Night. 
> 
> *Ch. 144-147* show a series of creatures guarding the doors of the netherworld, defined as more than genii, and as demons. They are potentially harmful for whoever is not provided with the appropriate knowledge to face them. They also have a positive function for the sacred place they guard, namely the doors and portals of the netherworld. The doorkeepers of the Book of the Dead are depicted with animal head and human body.
> 
> 
> *144* Lists the names of the creatures serving as keeper, guard, and announcer at each of seven gates. their names are fairly terrifying, for instance "He who lives on snakes", or "Hippopotamus-faced, raging of power". By knowing these gates, the deceased can persuade them to let him through. to the guardians the deceased says:
> 
> O you gates, you who keep the gates because of Osiris, O you who guard them and who report the affairs of the Two Lands to Osiris every day; I know you and I know your names.
> Book of the Dead, spell 144
> ...


*Book of dead Spell 144-145*

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bookofthedead-144145.jpg?uselang=pl




> Demons play a central role in protecting sacred places that are located between earth and netherworld, the role that is confirmed in religions of Mesopotamia, Buddhism or Hinduism. However, the Book of Dead spells is unique in a sense that describes the interaction of deceased with demons.
> Finally, among the demonic beings of the Book of the Dead there are also animals, which also populate the earth. Egyptians considered certain kinds of animals particularly dangerous and therefore associated with demonic forces. In fact, reptiles and some mammals like the pig, the donkey, the dog and the jackal were seen as negative manifestations of Seth.
> Lucarelli, Rita ( 2010), Demons (benevolent and malevolent).


UCLA Encyclopedia of Egyptology
Rita Lucarelli, Leiden, Demons in the Book of the Dead

----------


## ftil

I was talking about occult in my previous post and a few occultists art. 




> Jean Delville (19 January 1867, Leuven  1953) was a Belgian symbolist painter, writer, and occultist. In 1896, he founded the Salon dArt Idealiste, which is considered the Belgian equivalent to the Parisian Rose & Cross Salon.
> In 1895 Delville published his Dialogue entre nous, a text in which he outlined his views on occultism and esoteric philosophy. Brendan Cole discusses this text in his D.Phil. thesis on Delville (Christ Church, Oxford, 2000), pointing out that, though the Dialogue reflects the ideas of a number of occultists, it also reveals a new interest in Theosophy. In the mid or late 1890s, Delville joined the Theosophical Society. In 1896, he founded the Salon dArt Idealiste, which is considered the Belgian equivalent to the Parisian Rose & Cross Salon and the Pre-Raphaelite movement in London. The Salon disbanded in 1898. In 1910 he became the secretary of the Theosophical movement in Belgium. In the same year he added a tower to his house in Forest, a suburb of Brussels. Following the ideas of Jiddu Krishnamurti, Delville painted the meditation room at the top, including the floorboards, entirely in blue. The Theosophical Emblem was placed at the summit of the ceiling.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Delville


*Jean Delville - Belgian Occultist Symbolism I*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54IeQWD7QHI

More Jean Delvilles paintings.
http://jeandelville.org/Paintings/index.htm





> *Félicien Rops* (7 July 1833 - 23 August 1898) was a Belgian artist, and printmaker in etching and aquatint.
> Félicien Rops was a freemason and a member of the Grand Orient of Belgium.


*Félicien Rops*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk8EFu2GakE

More paintings.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ca...%A9licien_Rops






> *Carlos Schwabe* (July 21, 18661926) was a German Symbolist painter and printmaker.
> Schwabe created a colour lithograph for the 1892 Salon de la Rose+Croix, the first of six exhibitions organized by Joséphin Péladan that demonstrated the Rosicrucian tendencies of French Symbolism.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Schwabe



*Carlos Schwabe - Occultist Symbolism II*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_X4dCtMuFY


More Carlos Schwabes paintings.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ca...Carlos_Schwabe




> *Fernand Edmond Jean Marie Khnopff* ( 1858  1921 in Brussels) was a Belgian symbolist painter.
> In 1885, he met the French novelist Joséphin Péladan the future grandmaster of the Rosicrucian "Ordre de la Rose + Croix". In 1892 he exhibited in Paris at the first Salon de la Rose+Croix, encouraged by his new friend, Joséphin Péladan. However, this friendship brought him trouble with The Twenty, some members having little regard for the Rose+Croix.
> http://www.artmagick.com/pictures/ar...ernand-khnopff


*Fernand Khnopff - Belgian Occultist Symbolism III*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b81TYTQva0g


More F. Khnopffs paintings.

http://www.artmagick.com/pictures/ar...khnopff&page=1




> *Emile Fabry Bartelemy* (1865  1966). Belgian painter movement symbolist. The subjects of his paintings are drawn from the writings of Josephin Peladan and theories of the Rose Cross.



*Emile Fabry - Belgian Occultist Symbolism IV and last.*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNnN2PtW1bg

----------


## ftil

I had a conversation on The Art Thread about Franz von Bayros and Félicien Rops, painters whose art reflects a deeply troubled mind. I didn’t expect that discussion about those painters would lead me to eastern religions to find connection of East with West.
http://www.online-literature.com/for...t=64250&page=6

Let's look at Buddhist gurus.




> [O]nce you receive transmission and form the [guru-disciple] bond of samaya, you have committed yourself to the teacher as guru, and from then on, the guru can do no wrong, no matter what. It follows that if you obey the guru in all things, you can do no wrong either. This is the basis of Osel Tendzin’s [Trungpa’s eventual successor] teaching that “if you keep your samaya, you cannot make a mistake.” He was not deviating into his own megalomania when he said this, but repeating the most essential idea of mainstream Vajrayana [i.e., Tantric Buddhism] (Butterfield, 1994).
> 
> Q [student]: What if you feel the necessity for a violent act in order ultimately to do good for a person?
> 
> A [Trungpa]: You just do it (Trungpa, 1973).
> 
> A woman is stripped naked, apparently at Trungpa’s joking command, and hoisted into the air by [his] guards, and passed around—presumably in fun, although the woman does not think so (Marin, 1995).
> 
> We were admonished ... not to talk about our practice. “May I shrivel up instantly and rot,” we vowed, “if I ever discuss these teachings with anyone who has not been initiated into them by a qualified master.” As if this were not enough, Trungpa told us that if we ever tried to leave the Vajrayana, we would suffer unbearable, subtle, continuous anguish, and disasters would pursue us like furies....
> ...


LOL! That’s an enlightened justification…. 





> Trungpa appointed an American acolyte named Thomas Rich, also known as Osel Tendzin, as his successor. Rich, a married father of four, died of AIDS in 1990 amid published reports that he had had unprotected sex with [over a hundred] male and female students without telling them of his illness (Horgan, 2003a). Tendzin had asked Trungpa what he should do if students wanted to have sex with him, and Trungpa’s reply was that as long as he did his Vajrayana purification practices, it did not matter, because they would not get the disease. Tendzin’s answer, in short, was that he had obeyed the instructions of his guru.
> http://www.strippingthegurus.com/stg...rs/trungpa.asp


Interesting, I thoughts that his students looked for enlightenment not a sex with a guru. But sexual exploitation has been a modus operandi fir Buddhist teachers. Vajrayana purification practices didn’t help Trungpa as he died of acute alcoholism in 1987.  :Ihih: 

Let’s at another “guru”.

*Sex Scandals In Religion,
Episode Three: In The Name Of Enlightenment.
Directed by Debi Goodwin.*




> An image of peace, meditation, gentle respect. Not serial sex abuse. But accusations of tawdry sexual exploitation are breaking out all over, threatening the elevated status of this beautiful religion. One of the Dalai Lama’s star protégés Sogyal Rinpoche, the author of one of the most powerful and popular books in the history of Buddhism, and the leader of a global network of holy centers, has left a wake of damaged women. Until now, they have been kept silent. Speaking out for the first time in this documentary, they accuse him of seduction, physical assault and moral deceit. It’s an extraordinary story of sexual aggression, spiritual arrogance and avoidance of moral leadership…to the very top.


*In The Name Of Enlightenment*

http://www.earthbook.tv/religion/cha...ideos/148/678/





> It is not only “avant-garde” lamas who have “bent” the rules which one would otherwise have reasonably assumed were governing their behaviors. Rather, as June Campbell (1996) has noted from her own experience:
> 
> [I]n the 1970s, I traveled throughout Europe and North America as a Tibetan interpreter, providing the link, through language, between my lama-guru [Kalu Rinpoche, 1905 – 1989] and his many students. Subsequently he requested that I become his sexual consort, and take part in secret activities with him, despite the fact that to outsiders he was a very high-ranking yogi-lama of the Kagya lineage who, as abbot of his own monastery, had taken vows of celibacy. Given that he was one of the oldest lamas in exile at that time, had personally spent fourteen years in solitary retreat, and counted amongst his students the highest ranking lamas in Tibet, his own status was unquestioned in the Tibetan community, and his holiness attested to by all....
> 
> [I]t was plainly emphasized that any indiscretion [on my part] in maintaining silence over our affair might lead to madness, trouble, or even death [e.g., via magical curses placed upon the indiscreet one].
> 
> And how did the compassionate, bodhisattva-filled Tibetan Buddhist community react to such allegations?
> 
> [M]any rejected out of hand Campbell’s claims as sheer fabrication coming from somebody eager to gain fame at the expense of a deceased lama (Lehnert, 1998; italics added).
> Geoffrey D. Falk, Stripping the Gurus:Sex, Violence, Abuse and Enlightenment


Secrecy is the modus operandi.  :Eek: 

For more of the inside story on Tibetan Buddhism, consult T*rimondi and Trimondi’s (2003) The Shadow of the Dalai Lama: Sexuality, Magic and Politics in Tibetan Buddhism.*

Let’s look close at Vajrayana.




> To have sexual relations with a prostitute paid by you and not by a third person does not, on the other hand, constitute improper behavior (Lama, 1996).
> Geoffrey D. Falk, Stripping the Gurus:Sex, Violence, Abuse and Enlightenment


So, prostitution is not considered as improper behavior by Dalai Lama. 





> Every type of passion (sexual pleasure, fits of rage, hate and loathing) which is normally considered taboo by Buddhist ethical standards, is activated and nurtured in Vajrayana with the goal of then transforming it into its opposite. The Buddhist monks, who are usually subject to a strict, puritanical-seeming set of rules, cultivate such “breaches of taboo” without restriction, once they have decided to follow the “Diamond Path”.
> 
> Suitably radical instructions can be found in the Hevajra Tantra: “A wise man ... should remove the filth of his mind by filth ... one must rise by that through which one falls”, or, more vividly, “As flatulence is cured by eating beans so that wind may expel wind, as a thorn in the foot can be removed by another thorn, and as a poison can be neutralized by poison, so sin can purge sin” (Walker, 1982, p. 34). For the same reason, the Kalachakra Tantra exhorts its pupils to commit the following: to kill, to lie, to steal, to break the marriage vows, to drink alcohol, to have sexual relations with lower-class girls (Broido, 1988, p. 71). A Tantric is freed from the chains of the wheel of life by precisely that which imprisons a normal person.
> 
> In order to keep hidden from the public all the offensive things which are implicated by the required breaches of taboo, some tantra texts make use of a so-called “twilight language” (samdhya-bhasa).
> 
> For example, one says “lotus” and means “vagina”, or employs the term “enlightenment consciousness” (bodhicitta) for sperm, or the word “sun” (surya) for menstrual blood. Such a list of synonyms can be extended indefinitely.
> 
> Women were regarded as the greatest obstacle along the masculine path to enlightenment. Because the woman represents the feared gateway to rebirth, because she produces the world of illusion, because she steals the forces of the man — the origins of evil lie within her. Accordingly, to touch a woman was also the most serious breach of taboo for a Buddhist from the pre-tantric phase.
> ...


More about Kalachkara rituals *Victor & Victoria Trimondi, The Shadow of the Dalai Lama: Sexuality, Magic and Politics in Tibetan Buddhism.*
http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Contents.htm

Those videos expose a child prostitution in India.


*Temple Prostitution – India*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHfI2...eature=related


*Sexual Slavery and enforced Prostitution in India*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1sTRMJQmho


Well, enough of Buddhist sex. How about some Buddhist violence?




> More specifically, in keeping with such extreme contemporary brutality as is regularly portrayed in tulku Steven Seagal’s movies, it has been whispered that
> 
> in old Tibet ... the lamas were the allies of feudalism and unsmilingly inflicted medieval punishments such as blinding and flogging unto death (Hitchens, 1998).
> Visiting the Lhasa [Tibet] museum, [journalist Alain Jacob] saw “dried and tanned children’s skins, various amputated human limbs, either dried or preserved, and numerous instruments of torture that were in use until a few decades ago”....
> 
> These were the souvenirs and instruments of the vanished lamas, proof, Jacob notes, that under the Buddhist religious rule in Tibet “there survived into the middle of the twentieth century feudal practices which, while serving a well-established purpose, were nonetheless chillingly cruel.”
> The “well-established purpose”? Maintaining social order in a church-state (Clark, 1980).
> 
> The early twentieth-century, Viennese-born explorer Joseph Rock minced even fewer words:
> ...



And something for a desert.




> No discussion of Tibetan Buddhism would be complete without mention of T. Lobsang Rampa (d. 1981).
> Rampa was the author, in the 1950s and ’60s, of more than a dozen popular books concerning his claimed experiences growing up as a lama in Tibet. Among them, we find 1956’s best-selling The Third Eye, concerning an operation allegedly undergone by Rampa to open up his clairvoyant faculties.
> 
> In the midst of that literary success, however, it was discovered that Rampa was in fact none other than a pen name for the Irish “son of a plumber,” Cyril Hoskins (Bharati, 1974).
> Hoskins himself had never been to Tibet. But then, the average Tibetan, in Hoskins’ day at least, had never seen indoor plumbing.
> Geoffrey D. Falk, Stripping the Gurus:Sex, Violence, Abuse and Enlightenment


LOL! I am wondering how many books he sold……..creativity without limits. Sadly, many were fooled.




> As might be expected, radically enlightened practitioners of Tibetan Buddhism counted through the ages and today are as rare as they are on any other path.
> When I asked an old lama from Tibet about whether these ten stages [of awakening to Buddha Nature, i.e., bhumis] are in fact a part of the practice, he said, “Of course they really exist.” But when I inquired who in his tradition had attained them, he replied wistfully, “In these difficult times I cannot name a single lama who has mastered even the second stage” (Kornfield, 2000).
> http://www.strippingthegurus.com/stg...ters/dalai.asp


But many fooled into believing in enlightenment. Hard not to be angry.

G. Falk has brought to our attention Catharine Burroughs, the first female American tulku.




> Further, this is also the very same Penor Rinpoche who, in 1986, recognized one Catharine Burroughs as the first female American tulku, saying that “the very fabric of her mind was the Dharma” (Sherrill, 2000). Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche later confirmed that reincarnation, i.e., of a sixteenth-century Tibetan saint, Genyenma Ahkön Lhamo—co-founder of the Palyul tradition of Tibetan Buddhism within the Nyingma School—as Burroughs. (Khyentse was the Dzogchen teacher of the Dalai Lama. He was also, of course, the same sage who reassured Trungpa’s and Tendzin’s followers that those gurus had given them authentic dharma, after Tendzin had already given some of them AIDS.) Burroughs herself, renamed as Jetsunma Ahkön Norbu Lhamo, went on to accumulate around a hundred followers—well short of the fifteen hundred which Penor Rinpoche had predicted would come. She also founded the largest Tibetan Buddhist monastery in the United States, located outside Washington, DC.
> 
> The great, recognized female tulku had reportedly earlier claimed to be the reincarnation of one of Jesus’ female disciples, entrusted in those earlier times with the passing-down of Gnostic texts. She had further apparently told her future third husband, in channeled sessions, that the two of them had ruled ancient, unrecorded civilizations on Earth. They had also supposedly governed galaxies in previous lifetimes together (Sherrill, 2000).
> http://www.strippingthegurus.com/stg...ters/dalai.asp


East and West meet each. The Johannites believed that Mary Magdalene received a secret teaching form Jesus. I am wondering if Dan Brown and Da Vinci Code was inspired by Johannites.




> *Gnostics*
> The Johannites are a sect of Gnostics who acknowledge John the Baptist as the prophesized [[Messiah that was to come before the greater Messiah, and Jesus Christ as the greater Messiah. The Church itself was founded by St. Bernard. The Church believes that Christ passed down his Gnosis to John the Divine and Mary Magdalene, who some also believe to be the equivalent of Jesus as the Daughter of Sophia and Venus/Aphrodite.
> 
> *Knights Templar*
> The Knights Templar were secret adherents to Johannism when they came upon documents in Solomon's Temple and made Mary Magdalene their patroness.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ps...ard/Johannites


I haven’t read Da Vinci Code but I did some research about falsity of his claims. Interestingly, I have Iearned about King, Harvard professor who has been cracking the codes of early Christianity for more than 20 years. I haven’t read her books yet. Since King has described herself as a feminist, I hope that she doesn’t falsify her research like feminists I posted earlier who have been promoting neopagan religion. 

Let’s go back to American tulku who got the responsibilities in this life times not as impressive as galactic leadership. I have so much fun reading about gurus.




> “The future of Dharma in the West is riding on us,” she told her students (Sherrill, 2000).
> Nor was the Dharma everything to wind up “riding on” the former Brooklyn housewife. For, as her androgynously appealing, strong body of a triathlete, female personal trainer (Teri) was to reportedly discover, in the midst of a “very personal” relationship:
> 
> While Buddhists aren’t really supposed to proselytize, lamas are known to be very crafty, and they use all kinds of techniques—flattery, promises, even lies—to expose a student to the Dharma. And it is thought to be an enormous blessing if a lama chooses to have sex with you (Sherrill, 2000).
> 
> Oral sex and masturbation, out. Lesbian sex, in.
> “Enormous blessings.”
> 
> Thence followed much additional reported financial and personal nonsense—including the forty-plus Jetsunma dropping Teri and instead taking one of her twenty-something male disciples as a “consort.” The latter was, however, himself apparently cut loose a year later. He was further unbelievably talked into becoming a monk in order to “keep the blessing” conferred upon him in having had sex with his lama/guru, by never again sleeping with an “ordinary woman.”
> ...


I didn’t know about Hopi prophecies for 1999. It sounds that they have changed mind and have prophesied 2012 disaster. LOL!

The tulku phenomenon itself has an interesting, and very human, history.




> The system of recognizing reincarnations was established at the beginning of the thirteenth century by the followers of Dusum Khyenpa, the first Karmapa Lama. As the religious influence of Tibet’s lamas came to be adapted for political purposes through the centuries, internally and via influence from China, the process of recognizing new tulkus was rather predictably affected.
> 
> The traditional method of scrutiny whereby the young hopefuls had to identify objects belonging to their past incarnation was often neglected.... It wasn’t at all uncommon to have two or more candidates—each backed by a powerful faction—openly and violently [italics added] challenging one well-known tulku seat (Lehnert, 1998).
> 
> Such intrigues are by no means buried merely in the dim and distant past. For, when it came time to recognize a new (Seventeenth) Karmapa Lama in the 1980s and ’90s.
> 
> Alleged “forgery, deceit, and a looming fight right at the top of the lineage,” with the high-ranking lamas there reportedly displaying “greed, pride, and lust for power”: “People were being intimidated, forced to sign petitions; some had been beaten.” Against that was heard the voice of one (European) Lama Ole Nydahl (Lehnert, 1998).
> 
> Interestingly, Trungpa himself, in 1984, had Osel Tendzin write to Vajradhatu members, warning them against Nydahl. Indeed, in that missive, Nydahl’s teaching style was described as being “contrary to everything we have been taught and have come to recognize as genuine.” Trungpa was further of the opinion that “there is some real perversion of the buddhadharma taking place by Mr. Nydahl” (Rawlinson, 1997).
> http://www.strippingthegurus.com/stg...ters/dalai.asp


I didn’t know about the the Karma Kagyu Lineage conflict that brought fierce controversy since 1992.




> The conflict arose after a young monk, Urgyen Trinley, was falsely proclaimed the 17th Gyalwa Karmapa, head of the Karma Kagyu lineage by Tai Situ Rinpoche. Traditionally, the Karmapas are unique among all incarnate Buddhist lamas in that they leave specific instructions detailing their future rebirth. After the 16th Karmapa, Rangjung Rigpe Dorje died in 1981, the entire Kagyu world anxiously awaited word of his reincarnation. 
> 
> In 1992, Situ Rinpoche, officially the third ranking lama in the lineage presented a letter to fellow Kagyu lamas, which he claimed was the "prediction letter" of the 16th Karmapa. Kunzig Shamar Rinpoche, the second ranking lama in the lineage rejected the authenticity of that letter outright and insisted the document undergo a forensic examination.
> 
> *His demands were totally disregarded, particularly after H.H. the Dalai Lama, against all historic tradition, involved himself in the matter and gave his recognition of the candidate.* The Chinese Communist Government also gave its full backing to Tai Situ Rinpoche's candidate and "officially" proclaimed the boy to be a "living buddha". China's recognition of Urgyen Trinley represented a sudden about face in its policy of not recognizing the reincarnation of any Buddhist lama. Based on the alleged forged letter, the young nomad boy, Urgyen Trinley was enthroned in Tibet/China. The enthronement took place without the seal of approval of Shamar Rinpoche , the active head of the Karma Kagyu lineage. Shamar Rinpoche has repeatedly pointed out to H.H. the Dalai Lama the glaring improprieties in the case and urged him to stay out of what is a strictly Kagyu issue.
> 
> In 1994, Shamar Rinpoche, in accordance with Kagyu tradition, found and recognized Thaye Dorje and proclaimed him the rightful 17th Karmapa. 
> Thaye Dorje is supported by many high ranking lamas of the Karma Kagyu lineage. However, the lineage is presently split into two camps: those following Thaye Dorje and those supporting Urgyen Trinley.
> 
> ...


Interesting that Dalai Lama didn’t support forensic examination. The conflict would be resolved a long time ago. Well, politics and intrigues. More about Tibetan politics - *Trimondi and Trimondi’s (2003) The Shadow of the Dalai Lama: Sexuality, Magic and Politics in Tibetan Buddhism.*

----------


## ftil

To continue with sex and violence.

Let's look at Hindu gurus.





> *JIDDU KRISHNAMURTI* WAS DISCOVERED as a teenage boy by Charles Leadbeater of the Theosophical Society, on a beach in Madras, India, in 1909.
> 
> The Theosophical Society itself had been founded in New York City by the east-European seer Madame Helena P. Blavatsky (HPB), in 1875. Its membership soon numbered over 100,000; an Asian headquarters was established in Adyar, India, in 1882.
> 
> The Theosophical Society ... was at first enormously successful and attracted converts of the intellectual stature of the inventor Thomas Edison and Darwins friend and collaborator Alfred Russel Wallace (Storr, 1996).
> 
> No less an authority than [Zen scholar] D. T. Suzuki was prepared to say that [Blavatskys] explication of Buddhist teachings in The Voice of Silence ... testified to an initiation into the deeper side of Mahayana doctrine (Oldmeadow, 2004).
> 
> Perhaps. And yet
> ...



Leadbeater made another attempt to bring Great Teacher.




> The Rôle which the Theosophical Society attributes to itself is not limited to announcing the coming of the 'Great Teacher;' it has also to find and prepare...the chosen 'disciple' in which he will incarnate when the time arrives. To tell the truth, the accomplishment of this mission has not been without failures; there was at least a first attempt which failed piteously...It was in London, where a kind of Theosophical community existed in St. John's Wood. There they brought up a young boy, sickly in appearance and not very intelligent, but whose least word was listened to with respect and admiration, because he was no other, it appears, than 'Pythagoras reincarnated.'...Some time later the father of this child, a retired captain in the British Army, suddenly withdrew his son from Mr. Leadbeater's hands, who had been specially charged with his education (Soleil, August 1, 1913). There must have been some threat of scandal about this, for Mr. Leadbeater was in 1906 excluded from the Theosophical Society for reasons concerning which a discreet silence was kept...it was only later that a letter written by Mrs. Besant was made known, in which she speaks of methods, 'worthy of the severest reprobation' (Theosophical Voice, of Chicago, May 1908). Reinstated, however, in 1908, after 'having promised not to repeat these dangerous counsels' (Theosophist, February 1908) previously given to young boys, and reconciled with Mrs. Besant, whose constant collaborator he became in Adyar, Mr. Leadbeater played yet again the principal rôle in the second affair, much better known, and which had almost the same wind-up...
> Christina Stoddard 1930, Light-Bearers of Darkness 
> 
> 
> At any rate, even prior to being discovered by Leadbeater, while still in Indias public school system, Krishnamurtis own education had been a traumatic experience:
> 
> Never one to endear himself to schoolmasters, Krishna was punished brutally for his inadequacies and branded an imbecile (Vernon, 2001).
> 
> He was caned almost every day for being unable to learn his lessons. Half his time at school was spent in tears on the veranda (Lutyens, 1975).
> ...


We saw Krishnamurti in 1926, the year appointed, presented by this society as the "World Teacher" or New Messiah!




> "...for the moment we wish to point out only a few of these auxiliary groups (of the Theosophical Society), and first of all 'The Order of the Rising Sun,' organized at Benares by Mr. Arundale, afterwards converted, January 11, 1911, into the 'Independent Order of the Star in the East,' with Alcyone (Krishnamurti's astrological pseudonym) as nominal chief and Mrs. Besant as 'Protector,' 'in order to group together all those who, whether within or without the Theosophical Society, believed in the coming of the Supreme World Teacher.' 
> 
> "The Order of the Star in the East, which exists for the sole purpose of preparing the way for the Coming, has over 50,000 members throughout the world...The Head of the Order is Krishnamurti, who is now thirty-one years old. The 'Protector' is Mrs. Annie Besant, International President of the Theosophical Society...On December 28, 1911, the first overshadowing of the World Teacher took place at Benares, when the Head, then a boy of sixteen, was giving out some certificates of membership. No words were spoken. 
> 
> At the time of his first visit to Paris (he returned May 1914) Alcyone was sixteen years old; he had already written, or at least they had published under his name, a little book called 'At the Feet of the Master,' for which Theosophists have shown the greatest admiration, although it was scarcely more than a collection of moral precepts without much originality.
> 
> The next public manifestation came when Krishnamurti was thirty years old. On the evening of December 28 of last year he was speaking at the Jubilee Convention of the Theosophical Society at Adyar, in India. This time the World Teacher Himself spoke, although He only said a few sentences. Mr. Krishnamurti was explaining why the Teacher was coming and something of what He would do, when a Voice of penetrating sweetness, speaking in the first person, said these words: 'I come for those who want sympathy, who want happiness; who are longing to be released; who are longing to find happiness in all things; I come to reform not to tear down; not to destroy but to build.'...This same World Teacher will soon come again, speaking through another disciple, as he spoke through Jesus 1,926 years ago...In our view we draw a clear distinction between Jesus and Christ...We know that at the Baptism of Jesus, and again at the Transfiguration, something was added to Jesus that was not there before. That is perfectly explained by this distinction between the disciple Jesus and the Lord Christ...We look upon Krishnamurti as a disciple, whose body will be used by the World Teacher...At first months will separate the public manifestation of the Lord. Later He will speak more frequently, until we hope it will be possible for Christ to stay with us for many years. When He came before, He was only allowed to stay for three brief years doing public work, when He was murdered. As a result of that effort all He left was a little seed of 120 people...If we make it possible for Him to stay then times three years, what harvest will not that seed bring forth? When He came before, John the Baptist alone prepared the way for Him. Today tens of thousands of sincere people are His forerunners...We hope to make it possible for Him to stay many years once the body of His disciple is tempered to stand the strain sufficiently. Will the Christian Churches accept Him?
> 
> Finally, at Ommen 1927, Krishnamurti announced: "My Beloved and I are One." The obsession was completed, *Krishnamurti's own personality was in absolute abeyance!*


And his teachings what freedom means. 




> "The purpose, the manner of attaining this happiness, of gaining this liberation, is in your own hand. It does not lie in the hand of some unknown god, or in temples or in churches, but in your own self. For temples, churches, and religions bind, and you must be beyond all dreams of God in order to attain this Liberation. There is no external God as such who urges us to live nobly, or to live basely; there is but the voice of our own intuition...When that voice is sufficiently strong, when that voice, the result of accumulated experience, is obeyed, and you yourself become that voice, then you are God...So the most important thing is to uncover this God within each one of you. That is the purpose of life; to awaken the dormant God (the unused sex-force, the Kundalini within you) to give life to the speak which exists in each one of us, so that we become a flame (illuminised), and join the eternal flame of the world (the universal life-force or either, as above so below, of Hermes)...In the permanent is established, is seen, the only God in the world, yourself that has been purified."
> Stoddart, 1930, Light-Bearers of Darkness,


An interesting details of camp at Ommen. 




> A correspondent in the "Patriot," August 29, 1929, gives some interesting details as to what went on at this Camp Meeting at Ommen which we give verbatim:
> 
> "I have studied Theosophy and its kindred movements, such as Co-Masonry, the Liberal Catholic Church, and the Star, for some years, and have formed the definite opinion that behind the mask of the innocent study of symbolism, brotherhood, and comparative religion there lies a deep-seated anti-British organization. The link between these movements is Dr. Annie Besant...
> 
> Last year the camp at Ommen was a most astounding place. though the key-note of the Star teaching is 'freedom for all,' *the camp was surrounded by a seven-foot barbed-wire fence; all members had to wear a label which showed clearly their name and number, and without which they were not allowed in or out of the camp; there were endless irritating rules and regulations, all destined to reduce the inmates to the last stage of servility.*
> 
> The table manners of the campers would have disgraced a farmyard, though, of course, Krishnamurti did not feed with the common herd, but in luxury at Eerde Castle, the residence of Baron von Pallandt, a prominent member of the Theosophical Society, who also holds a very high degree in the co-Masonic Order.
> 
> The 1929 camp at Ommen has just ended, and it was apparently there that Krishnamurti publicly announced that the Order of the Star would be dissolved. *What is going to happen to his unfortunate dupes who have followed him slavishly, have given up their own religion, and who have worshipped him blindly is impossible to say. His own words and writings urge them to have no other support but themselves, which in plain English means having no other support but him; he is now casting them away with broken beliefs, no ideals, and no leader or Teacher on whom to rely. He has undermined their faith in God and their country, and now leaves them in a state of utter chaos.* 
> Stoddart, 1930, Light-Bearers of Darkness


What a freedom and a teacher who broke all foundations of his devotees! BTW, he wrote Total Freedom. Well, I read it before I researched who he was. 

But there is more........




> Krishnamurtis contemporary appearance on Earth offered hope to Theosophists for the salvation of mankind. After years of being groomed for his role as their World Teacher, however, Krishnamurtis faith in the protection of Theosophys Masters, and Leadbeaters guiding visions of the same, was shattered in 1925 by the unexpected death of his own younger brother. (Jiddu had previously been assured, in his own believed meetings with the Masters on the astral plane, that his brother would survive the relevant illness.) Thereafter, he viewed those visions, including his own, as being merely personal wish-fulfillments, and considered the occult hierarchy of Masters to be irrelevant (Vernon, 2001).
> 
> That, however, did not imply any rejection of mysticism in general, on Krishnamurtis part:
> 
> By the autumn of 1926 [following an alleged kundalini awakening which began in 1922] Krishna made it clear ... that a metamorphosis had taken place. [The kundalini is a subtle energy believed to reside at the base of the spine. When awakened and directed up the spine into the brain, it produces ecstatic spiritual realization.] His former personality had been stripped away, leaving him in a state of constant and irreversible union with the godhead (Vernon, 2001).
> 
> Or, as Krishnamurti (1969) himself put it, in openly proclaiming his status as World Teacher:
> 
> I have become one with the Beloved. I have been made simple. I have become glorified because of Him.
> ...



Krishnamurti lectured:





> When man becomes aware of the movement of his own consciousness he will see the division between the thinker and the thought, the observer and the observed, the experiencer and the experience. He will discover that this division is an illusion. Then only is there pure observation which is insight without any shadow of the past. This timeless insight brings about a deep radical change in the mind (Krishnamurti, in [Lutyens, 1983]).
> 
> Through that personal realization, Krishnamurti claimed (completely untenably) to be unconditioned by his own upbringing and, indeed, to have (conveniently) forgotten most of his past. Nevertheless, his own teachings have much in common with those of both the Buddha and the Upanishads. Not coincidentally, Jiddu had been intensively schooled in both of those philosophies during his early years at Adyar (Sloss, 2000).
> 
> He taught and practiced the meditative exercise as a movement without any motive, without words and the activity of thought.
> 
> [R]epeating mantras and following gurus were, he said, particularly stupid ways of wasting time (Peat, 1997).
> 
> And the Krinsh, with his krinsh-feet quite warm in Ojai,
> ...


 More about Krishnamurti character.




> [W]hen I interrogated Krishnamurti himself about the whole World Mother affair [i.e., the Theosophical Societys short-lived programme for global spiritual upliftment under a chosen woman after the World Teacher plans for Krishnamurti had fallen through], he blurted out, Oh, that was all cooked u before he caught himself in the realization that he was admitting to a recollection of events in his early life which he later came to deny he possessed (Sloss, 2000).
> 
> [Emily Lutyens] said she knew Krishna was a congenital liar but that she would nevertheless always adore him....
> 
> My mother asked him once why he lied and he replied with astonishing frankness, Because of fear (Sloss, 2000).
> 
> Krinsh was outraged. His voice changed completely from a formal indifference to heated anger. It became almost shrill.
> 
> *I have no ego! he said. Who do you think you are, to talk to me like this?* (Sloss, 2000).
> ...


LOL!!!! Oh, those gurus.

Let's look another famous guru.




> Physicist John S. Hagelin ... has predicted that Maharishis influence on history will be far greater than that of Einstein or Gandhi (Gardner, 1996).
> 
> BORN IN 1918, THE MAHARISHI MAHESH YOGI graduated with a physics degree from the University of Allahabad. Soon thereafter, he received the system of Transcendental Meditation® (TM®) from his Guru Dev, Swami Brahmanand Saraswati, who occupied the northern seat of yoga in India, as one of four yogic popes in the country.
> 
> Transcendental Meditation itself is an instance of mantra yoga.
> The [TM] movement taught that the enlightened man does not have to use critical thought, he lives in tune with the unbounded universal consciousness. He makes no mistakes, his life is error free (Patrick L. Ryan, in [Langone, 1995]). Contemporary followers of the Maharishi have included actress Heather Graham and the Nobel Prize-winning physicist Brian Josephson. Plus Deepak Chopra [see TranceNet, 2004], whose best-selling book Quantum Healing was dedicated to the Maharishi.
> 
> The Beatles disillusionment with the Maharishi during their stay with him in India in 1968 involved allegations that Maharishi had sex with a visiting American student (Anthony, et al., 1987). 
> 
> ...






> In 1973, Maharishi International University (MIU) was established in Santa Barbara, California, moving a year later to its permanent location in Fairfield, Iowa.
> 
> In 1976, the Maharishi discovered the principles which were to lead to the TM Sidhi [sic] Programbased on the siddhis or powers outlined in Patanjalis Yoga Sutras. Those include the technique of Yogic Flying, or levitation ... or hopping down the yogi trail:
> 
> During the first stage of Yogic Flying, the bodymotivated only by the effortless mental impulse of the Sidhi techniquerises up in the air in a series of blissful hops (Maharishi, 1995).
> 
> The Maharishi has also claimed that advanced practitioners can develop powers of invisibility, mind-reading, perfect health and immortality (Epstein, 1995).
> 
> One three-year study done by the National Research Council on improving human performance concluded that TM is ineffectual in improving human performance and that pro-TM researchers were deeply flawed in their methodology (Ross, 2003a).
> ...




Listed below are excerpts from articles, books and *other studies which analyze the problems with research conducted by the TM Organization. These problems include allegations of suppression of negative evidence, of fraud and of "gross scientific incompetence", lack of double-blind controls, refusal to submit raw data, failure to control for set effects, failure to control for expectancy of relief, failure to control for placebo/suggestible-prone subjects, and others.*





> *Study: The Various Implications Arising from the Practice of Transcendental Meditation: An empirical analysis of pathogenic structures as an aid in counseling. Bensheim, Germany: (Institut fur Jugend Und Gesellschaft, Ernst-Ludwig-Strasse 45, 6140.) Institute for Youth and Society, 1980 (188 pgs). 
> *
> Excerpts: 
> 
> "The T.M. movement only reports on positive effects of transcendental meditation, a rather different story has become known through parents and ex-meditators." 
> 
> "Also, medicinal, psychological and sociological research ... is instigated by the 'Maharishi European Research University' (MERU), and is conducted mostly by scientists who themselves belong to the T.M. movement. ...Possible negative effects, are either not mentioned at all in the investigations, or are barely mentioned." 
> 
> "The uncountable investigations, (billed as scientific) which the T.M. movement has instigated or have been conducted by active T.M. meditators, show the determination of the movement to keep up the image of 'the scientifically proven relaxation technique with a high therapeutic success rate', and to deny the general public an insight into the completely different meaning of T.M. for the 'insider'." 
> ...



TranceNet: Independent TM Research Archive
For the first time on the Web, TranceNet presents the entire text of this seminal report in English translation -- with charts. The TM movement attempted to suppress this report in German courts, but its findings were upheld by the German high court (The Federal Republic of Germany: OVG Muenster: 5 A 1152/84, The Bundesverwaltungsgericht: 23.5.87 7 C 2.87, The Bundesverfassungsgericht: 1 BvR 881/89).

Among the subjects studied:

 76% of long-term meditators experience psychological disorders -- including 
26% nervous breakdowns
 63% experience serious physical complaints
 70% recorded a worsening ability to concentrate
 Researchers found a startling drop in honesty among long-term meditators
 Plus a detailed examination of the history, culture, and secret teachings of
the TM movement.
"The Report of Germany's Institute for Youth and Society on TM"





> *Sworn affirmation from Attorney Anthony D. DeNaro , former Professor of Economics and Business Law and Director of Grants Administration at MIU. July 16, 1986. Presented to Judge Gasch of the United States District Court for the District of Columbia as part of Kropinsky civil suit, #85-2848.* 
> 
> Excerpts: 
> 
> "9. The deliberate pattern and practice of fraud, deceit and misrepresentation by knowledgeable, aware, educated and intelligent people, including lawyers, Tarabilda and Druker in tax (IRS) matters, corruption of the curricula, inter alia, is very pertinent and material to understanding and gaining some insight into how and why the practices of the defendants was able to continue without interruption for so long. It also suggests why they are seeking to cover-up a very substantial and injurious pattern of deception, fraud and corruption: 
> 
> "They demonstrate, for example, that: 
> 
> "d) Scienter [informed or guilty knowledge] was clearly present in the frauds, but was justified in the name of a higher ideology, which presumably means they can lie, come into a federal court, and commit perjury; 
> ...



*Yoga and psychotherapy. Part 6
*
First stage is deep breathing and movement. Second stage is screaming meditation. By the time you get to the third stage, you are hardly there. Your mind lives your body. There were glowing reports published giving the credits to Gurus and psychological techniques but neglected to mention thousands of cases of emotional and mental breakdown, insanity, suicides, rape, murders..This dangerous technique of enlightenment were incorporated in psychotherapy, self-help seminars, or even in Catholic and Protestant church (quote from video)

A very interesting documentary movie about Hindu religion. Hindu practices were introduced to western psychotherapy.

*New Age Mind Control Cults Part 6/13
*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzmld...eature=related


It was a tip of the icberg. But I can finish with Osho, Indian mystic, and "sex guru".




> He moved to a property in Koregaon Park, Poona, purchased with the help of Ma Yoga Mukta (Catherine Venizelos), a Greek shipping heiress where he taught from 1974 to 1981. From 1975, after the arrival of several therapists from the Human Potential Movement, the ashram began to complement meditations with a growing number of therapy groups, which became a major source of income for the ashram.
> 
> The Poona ashram was by all accounts an exciting and intense place to be, with an emotionally charged, madhouse-carnival atmosphere.
> 
> To decide which therapies to participate in, visitors either consulted Osho or made selections according to their own preferences. Some of the early therapy groups in the ashram, such as the Encounter group, were experimental, allowing a degree of physical aggression as well as sexual encounters between participants. Conflicting reports of injuries sustained in Encounter group sessions began to appear in the press. 
> 
> Richard Price, at the time a prominent Human Potential Movement therapist and co-founder of the Esalen institute, found the groups encouraged participants to 'be violent' rather than 'play at being violent' (the norm in Encounter groups conducted in the United States), and criticised them for "the worst mistakes of some inexperienced Esalen group leaders". Price is alleged to have exited the Poona ashram with a broken arm following a period of eight hours locked in a room with participants armed with wooden weapons.
> 
> By 1981, Osho's ashram hosted 30,000 visitors per year. Daily discourse audiences were by then predominantly European and American. Many observers noted that Osho's lecture style changed in the late seventies, becoming less focused intellectually and featuring an increasing number of ethnic or dirty jokes intended to shock or amuse his audience.
> ...



Another prophet of world disaster.  :FRlol: 

The Oregon years saw an increased emphasis on Osho's prediction that the world might be destroyed by nuclear war or other disasters sometime in the 1990s.

So, if you dont have 93 Rolls-Royces like Oshoforget about enlightenment.  :Rofl: 

How the East meets the West. Well, Lucyferian Tantra and Sex Magic by Micheal Ford may answer it. Well, I guess a devote of madame Balvatsky.  :Yikes: 

But how low people can fall?????? 

There are more "famous" gurus in *Stripping the Gurus:Sex, Violence, Abuse and Enlightenment by Geoffrey D. Falk*

----------


## billl

Well, I'm glad I checked in on this thread on a slow Sunday.

The last two posts seem like kind of a tangent from what the thread usually is about, but... it was nice to see so much on their subject in one place.

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## ftil

> Well, I'm glad I checked in on this thread on a slow Sunday.
> 
> The last two posts seem like kind of a tangent from what the thread usually is about, but... it was nice to see so much on their subject in one place.


Well, this thread is about mythology and religion. I was inspired by discussion on The Art Thread.
Buddhism and Hindu religion didnt get that much attention here so it deserved two long posts. It was a good opportunity to bring a very sensitive and troublesome subject about Eastern religions. 

Second, since I cant post paintings in the original size, I have to stay more focused. In the end of the day, it is good as I will not get immersed in art, forgetting to do my research. I cant be upset, on the contrary, it helps a lot.  :Ihih:

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## Paulclem

> Well, I'm glad I checked in on this thread on a slow Sunday.
> 
> The last two posts seem like kind of a tangent from what the thread usually is about, but... it was nice to see so much on their subject in one place.


Oddly enough Billl, I posted a support of St Lukes on the art thread Ftil refers to after he came in for some criticism. (I have debated on this thread about the nature and purpose of a website quoted on here). Thus we have this response about Buddhism which is a very skewed view. I think it is aimed at myself. Not to worry.

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## billl

> Buddhism and Hindu religion didnt get that much attention here so it deserved two long posts. It was a good opportunity to bring a very sensitive and troublesome subject about Eastern religions.


I think you're right about it being a sensitive and troublesome subject that deserves attention, I was just looking at the lack of "art" in the posts.

If it's aimed at PaulClem at all, though, that'd be a bit unfortunate, because he isn't really involved in the guru and Vajrayana business, I don't think.

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## Paulclem

> I think you're right about it being a sensitive and troublesome subject that deserves attention, I was just looking at the lack of "art" in the posts.
> 
> If it's aimed at PaulClem at all, though, that'd be a bit unfortunate, because he isn't really involved in the guru and Vajrayana business, I don't think.


My connection is with Tibetan Buddhism and HH The Dalai Lama, though you are right, I'm not a practitioner of Vajrayana. 

The problem I have with some of the references above is that they mix valid criticism - such as Trogyam Trungpa - with websites which are full of willful (in my view), misrepresentation. i have pointed this out previously, so it's an old debate.

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## ftil

> Originally posted by *Paulclem*
> 
> 
> Oddly enough Billl, I posted a support of St Lukes on the art thread Ftil refers to after he came in for some criticism. (I have debated on this thread about the nature and purpose of a website quoted on here). Thus we have this response about Buddhism which is a very skewed view. I think it is aimed at myself. Not to worry.







> My connection is with Tibetan Buddhism and HH The Dalai Lama, though you are right, I'm not a practitioner of Vajrayana. 
> 
> The problem I have with some of the references above is that they mix valid criticism - such as Trogyam Trungpa - with websites which are full of willful (in my view), misrepresentation. i have pointed this out previously, so it's an old debate.



LOL! Dont think that the world is centered around you.  :Yikes:  I was very clear that discussion about a few painters inspired and led me to Buddhist and Hindu religion. Please dont start again. We have had conversation about Buddism and The Shadow of the Dalai Lama: Sexuality, Magic and Politics in Tibetan Buddhism and I am not interesting in repeating it.

You have expressed your opinion about book you haven't read and let others make up thier mind.

Second, you know very well that it is not a discussion thread. We have had also a conversation about it. Nothing has changed.

Anxiety, eh? :Biggrin5:  Don't think that people who read this thread can't see your and Bill attempt to distract......and jump to another page so that others may miss uncomfortable truths. 

As I said, I have been on forums and I have learned all methods to distract, silence or stop members.  :Yikes: 





> Originally posted by *Bill*
> 
> I think you're right about it being a sensitive and troublesome subject that deserves attention, I was just looking at the lack of "art" in the posts.


It would be hard to provide art with that subject. 

Bill, you also know very well that it is not a discussion thread. 

Please respect it as you may see that this thread has a number of visitors who enjoys the format.

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## Paulclem

> LOL! Dont think that the world is centered around you.  I was very clear that discussion about a few painters inspired and led me to Buddhist and Hindu religion. Please dont start again. We have had conversation about Buddism and The Shadow of the Dalai Lama: Sexuality, Magic and Politics in Tibetan Buddhism and I am not interesting in repeating it.
> 
> You have expressed your opinion about book you haven't read and let others make up thier mind.
> 
> Second, you know very well that it is not a discussion thread. We have had also a conversation about it. Nothing has changed.
> 
> Anxiety, eh? Don't think that people who read this thread can't see your and Bill attempt to distract......and jump to another page so that others may miss uncomfortable truths. 
> 
> As I said, I have been on forums and I have learned all methods to distract, silence or stop members. 
> ...


Yes. I am aware that people read posts. 

As I said, I have been on forums and I have learned all methods to distract, silence or stop members.  :Yikes: 

 :Biggrin:  I don't think you need any methods.

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## billl

Look, do a blog if you don't want discussion or comments.

What I think is unfortunate is that those two posts are being distracted from by the absurd notion (coming from what evidence I don't know) that _I_ mean to distract from them. I am most certainly not in cahoots with PaulClem on this... I made a point of mentioning those two posts as worthwhile reading, in my opinion, especially for anyone who might be thinking of getting involved with a teaching that is to be kept secret, and/or that one is to be pressured against giving up. Here's the link to them again:

http://www.online-literature.com/for...74#post1156674

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## Paulclem

> Look, do a blog if you don't want discussion or comments.
> 
> What I think is unfortunate is that those two posts are being distracted from by the absurd notion (coming from what evidence I don't know) that _I_ mean to distract from them. I am most certainly not in cahoots with PaulClem on this... I made a point of mentioning those two posts as worthwhile reading, in my opinion, especially for anyone who might be thinking of getting involved with a teaching that is to be kept secret, and/or that one is to be pressured against giving up. Here's the link to them again:
> 
> http://www.online-literature.com/for...74#post1156674


I agree. There are issues within all religions, and Buddhism is no different. 

There is very clear guidance from valid Buddhist Teachers, including HH The Dalai Lama, that no-one should do anything that even appears to break normal rules and conventions, let alone Buddhist ones. 

There is a great misconception about meeting spiritual guides. These are very special encounters for the person involved, but they are extremely rare - as in rare across a number of lives rather one life. The rarity, and a misunderstanding about this, has been capitalised upon by unscrupulous people who purport to be the real thing. 

HH says:

"When teachers break the precepts, 
behaving in ways that are clearly damaging to themselves and others, 
students must face the situation, 
even though this can be challenging, criticize openly, that's the only way." 
His Holiness the Dalai Lama
http://viewonbuddhism.org/controvers...stionable.html

It's a sad fact for any religion to have people who exploit others good intentions. Goodness knows what karma they will accrue in doing so, but I think the fact that they do it means they really don't understand the consequences. 

There are dodgy teachers around as listed on the link. HH is not one of them.

----------


## ftil

Oh, you have both succeed to move to another page.  :FRlol: 


I made a post on November 28 , 2011 to clarify my intentions for opening this thread. And you know it very well as you can see your post. I understand that your anxiety runs highbut take Valerian to calm your nerves.  :Brow: 

I have been alone here for 8 monthsBudhism and Hindu religion must be a sensitive topic. 






> I want to keep this tread as it was my original purpose to open it.* I have moved art from Ovid and Metamorphosis tread that was a discussion tread not to have .... discussion tread.* One of the reasons for doing it is the fact that mythology and religion is a huge subject and I dont think that I will ever be comfortable to discuss it. Scholars who studied that subject in depth pointed out many contradictions depending what historian they take into consideration. For example, some historians believed that Venus was born in sea-foam from the castrated genitals of the sky-god Uranus whereas others believed that she was born out of egg. Similarly, Eros was a son of Venus in one myth in another a son of Iris.
> I am more interested in finding the common themes or archetypes in all religions. Joseph Campbell who spent his entire career came to that conclusion. I have come to the same conclusion and I want it to be a focus of my explorations.
> 
> *Secondly, I don't like influence people what I think.* I prefer to ask questions than to look for the answer since when we accept a belief we close our minds for alternative explanations.
> 
> Finally, I have asked the moderators on Picture/Images How to tread to clarify about posting art. Some members interpreted the new rules as not posting art on the discussion treads. They continue posting art but I prefer to wait for the clarification.
> My intentions was not to have a discussion tread and it would be sad this tread to end.
> http://www.online-literature.com/for...=62728&page=10




Paulclem, you are on ignore list. since you don't understand what no means.

Hopfully, it will stop you to come here.  :Ciappa:  If you want to talk about Buddhism open your thread and don't destroy mine.....Take Bill with you.....you are so alike...like many masons and occultists I met on other forums.


Scandals, corruptions, violence, or intrigues in Buddhist Zen. I wasnt aware that it is that bad.




> The Zen tradition has a history of famous drunken poets and masters.... Public encouragement for drinking in several communities where the teacher was alcoholic has led many students to follow suit, and certain Buddhist and Hindu communities have needed to start AA groups to begin to deal with their addiction problems....
> Students who enter spiritual communities do not imagine they will encounter these kinds of difficulties (Kornfield, 1993).
> [I]t became known that Maezumi [roshi/guru of the Zen Center in Los Angeles] had had a number of affairs with female students and had also entered a dry-out clinic for alcoholics (Rawlinson, 1997).
> In 1975 and 1979, as well as later in 1982, the Zen Studies Society had been rocked by rumors of Eido Roshis alleged sexual liaisons with female students....
> Nor were the allegations limited to sexual misconduct. They spread to financial mismanagement and incorrect behavior (Tworkov, 1994).
> 
> Zen teachers have an excellent method of dealing with students who start comparing themselves to Buddha or God [after their early enlightenment experiences, says Ken Wilber]. They take the stick and beat the crap out of you. And after five or ten years of that, you finally get over yourself (Horgan, 2003a).
> http://www.strippingthegurus.com/stg...apters/zen.asp




Hm.an interesting way to help students  to get rid of the ego




> That, however, is simply a ludicrously romanticized version of physical abuse meted out in the name of spirituality. In reality, such crap-beating behavior only shows the tempers and tendencies toward violence of individuals who are naïvely viewed by their followers as being spiritually enlightened.
> 
> Richard Rumbold, an English Zen enthusiast, who spent about five months at the Shokokuji, a monastery in Kyoto, describes some savage beatings-up administered by the head monk and his assistant for trifling disciplinary offences (Koestler, 1960).
> 
> Such brutal discipline could, further, easily get completely out of hand. Indeed, as a true story told to Janwillem van de Wetering (1999) during his long-term stay at a Japanese Zen monastery in Kyoto in the early 1970s goes:
> 
> In Tokyo there are some Zen monasteries as well. In one of these monasteries ... there was a Zen monk who happened to be very conceited. He refused to listen to whatever the master was trying to tell him and used the early morning interviews with the master to air all his pet theories. The masters have a special stick for this type of pupil. Our master has one, too, you will have seen it, a short thick stick. One morning the master hit the monk so hard that the monk didnt get up any more. He couldnt, because he was dead....
> The head monk reported the incident to the police, but the master was never charged. Even the police know that there is an extraordinary relationship between master and pupil, a relationship outside the law.
> 
> ...



Well, Socrates also said,  I know that I know nothing but he made a good use of his brain and arrived to that conclusion. He didnt get rid of his ego either. 




> What, then, of the widespread enlightenment which one might idealistically wish to attribute to practitioners of Zen?
> 
> I once asked Katagiri Roshi, with whom I had my first breakthrough ... how many truly great Chan and Zen masters there have historically been. Without hesitating, he said, Maybe one thousand altogether. I asked another Zen master how many truly enlighteneddeeply enlightenedJapanese Zen masters there were alive today, and he said, Not more than a dozen (Wilber, 2000a).
> 
> Thus, we have over a millennium of Zen teachers beating the crap out of their numerous disciples on a regular basis, to generate a scant thousand (i.e., around one per year, globally) enlightened individuals. That, however, would never be a reasonable trade-off, via any calculus of suffering. That is so particularly since such enlightenment primarily benefits only the specific person blessed by it, not the world at large.
> 
> In the Edo Era [1600  1868], Buddhist priests did not marry, but temples were busy places, and the priests in many cases were somewhat worldly. Women began living in the temples, to work and, at times, to love. They did not show their faces because they werent supposed to be there to begin with (Chadwick, 1999; italics added).
> 
> Otori [1814  1904] recognized that a large number of Buddhist priests were already married, in spite of regulations prohibiting it (Victoria, 1997; italics added).
> ...

----------


## Paulclem

The problem seems not to be the religion, but the organisation of it by people. Where there are people there will be problems - as we can see easily. 

If you want to post things that people are interested in, then why should anyone else not comment? You're not the owner, nor the owner of this thread, and the rules you quote mean nothing. Perhaps you should take the valerian.

----------


## ftil

> The problem seems not to be the religion, but the organisation of it by people. Where there are people there will be problems - as we can see easily. 
> 
> If you want to post things that people are interested in, then why should anyone else not comment? You're not the owner, nor the owner of this thread, and the rules you quote mean nothing. Perhaps you should take the valerian.



It is my last response. You time is up as I have zero tolerance for those who dont respect others boundaries. I may repost my last post..you may read a few times if you have reading comprehension.  :Brow: 





> I want to keep this tread as it was my original purpose to open it. *I have moved art from Ovid and Metamorphosis tread that was a discussion tread not to have .... discussion tread.* One of the reasons for doing it is the fact that mythology and religion is a huge subject and I dont think that I will ever be comfortable to discuss it. Scholars who studied that subject in depth pointed out many contradictions depending what historian they take into consideration. For example, some historians believed that Venus was born in sea-foam from the castrated genitals of the sky-god Uranus whereas others believed that she was born out of egg. Similarly, Eros was a son of Venus in one myth in another a son of Iris.
> 
> I am more interested in finding the common themes or archetypes in all religions. Joseph Campbell who spent his entire career came to that conclusion. I have come to the same conclusion and I want it to be a focus of my explorations.
> 
> *Secondly, I don't like influence people what I think*. I prefer to ask questions than to look for the answer since when we accept a belief we close our minds for alternative explanations.
> 
> Finally, I have asked the moderators on Picture/Images How to tread to clarify about posting art. Some members interpreted the new rules as not posting art on the discussion treads. They continue posting art but I prefer to wait for the clarification.
> My intentions was not to have a discussion tread and it would be sad this tread to end.
> http://www.online-literature.com/for...=62728&page=10



If you have forgotten our last conversation, let me remind you.

It may help you.  :FRlol: 





> Originally Posted by *Paulclem* 
> I posted my comments above with sincerity. I hope you take them in that spirit, though I'm not asking you to agree with them, just consider them.
> 
> 
> I appreciate your effort to answer it. It was a purpose of this tread to bring information so that if somebody is interested he or she may explore it further. If people are interested in Buddhism they may also look at references based on which the book was written, and perhaps, read some of the work to make own conclusions. Therefore, I always post a link.
> http://www.online-literature.com/for...t=62728&page=9




You have understood it on Novemeber 28, 2011 that I was not interested having discussion. 

Enjoy LITNET........you will find likeminded people here.  :Biggrin:

----------


## Paulclem

> It is my last response. You time is up as I have zero tolerance for those who dont respect others boundaries. I may repost my last post..you may read a few times if you have reading comprehension. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you have forgotten our last conversation, let me remind you.
> 
> It may help you. 
> ...


I was responding to Billl. I didn't ask you to respond to me. If I want to post here I will - I think you misunderstand what boundaries exist on a forum. This is not your personal space, though I don't wish to disrupt the thread. Are you going to respond now in your peculiarly offensive way, or shall we leave it at that?

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## Scheherazade

*~

This thread will now be closed.

Discussion threads are not any one particular member's personal property on this Forum.

If you do not wish others to contribute or respond your posts, simply refrain from contributing on the boards and consider blogging as an alternative.

~*

----------

