# Reading > Philosophical Literature >  What is your ultimate goal in life?

## coberst

What is your ultimate goal in life?

I can remember two times in my life when I seriously asked my self the question What are my plans for the future?

The first time occurred about a year after high school when I decided I wanted to be an electrical engineer. I had been working as an apprentice electrician for many months and had several contacts with an engineer and this impression led me to decide to be an engineer.

I planned several proximate goals that were necessary to reach my goal of becoming an engineer. I had to go into the army so that I could go to school on the GI Bill and then I had to complete my college engineering education.

The second time that I seriously thought about a proximate goal occurred about 15 years into my career when I pondered just what I wanted for a long term goal for my self.

Life is filled with proximate goals and the decision of just what means is best followed to achieve those particular goals. Now I am pondering what my ultimate goal is. I suspect that I have always had some kind of unconscious ultimate goal but it was one that I had not consciously and seriously thought about nor consciously desired. 

What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but suffer the loss of his soul? 

I was raised as a Catholic and taught by nuns; this question was often in the fore front of much of what the nuns taught me. I suspect that this was pretty much what most Christians, Jews, and Muslims were taught. It appears that the three major religions, and perhaps most all religions, taught that the ultimate goal for all men, women, and children must be save your soul above all else.

Have we mixed a very dangerous cocktail here because we have developed a technology that places great power into the hands of ordinary people; many, if not most, of whom have as their ultimate goal the saving of their soul rather than the saving of life on this planet?

Isnt it easy to see why many people find that their ultimate goal in life, i.e. to save their soul, fits quite satisfactorily with the ultimate desire for eternal life? Isnt it easy to see how such individuals might find that using WMDs is not the worst thing they might do if it will help them save their soul and have eternal life?

Can our species last much longer when we have such a dangerous cocktail ready mixed for instant drinking?

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## billl

A generous and interesting post Coberst. Of course, you've also been concerned with how people's minds are vulnerable to influence via technology, as well, and how such dangerous cocktails can be handed out more easily than ever, perhaps (or is that a spin I'm always compelled to put on it?  :Smile: ). Your promotion of increased CT "education" seems to be a much-needed counter-force to the more exploitative meme-spreaders.

For me, a key idea is that a respect for individuals (for oneself, and for others) is necessary if we are to promote life without _surrendering_ our "souls". I think other issues are connected to this, but I have mentioned in other threads started by you that I think that the "evolution" of technology should include a consideration of and a respect for individuals whose strengths and preferences are less-suited to any particular technological development. I think CT should include a consideration of others, even those who aren't particularly good at CT.

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## coberst

bill 

Fairmindedness is a basic aspect of CT.

To be fair-minded one must be vigilant (consciousness plus intention) of the need to treat all viewpoints alike. This demands that we adhere to intellectual standards such as accuracy and sound reasoning, which are unaffected by self-interest.

A contrast with fair-mindedness is intellectual self-centeredness.

*Fair-mindedness is a challenging task that demands a family of character traits: intellectual humility, courage, empathy, honesty, perseverance, and a confidence in the value of reason.

Our culture places maximum value not on fair-mindedness but upon self-interest, and maximizing production, and consumption.* 

_Intellectual humility_ begins with the recognition that absolute certainty regarding any matter of fact is beyond human capacity. There exists no mind-independent reality that we have the capacity to know. We can know only that which is “colored” by our experiences and historical perspective.

Our common sense views, coupled with philosophical tradition and religious dogma, all teach us that such is not the case, that we can find absolute certainty. This cultural tradition works aggressively against our goal of intellectual humility thus demanding that we must become more intellectually sophisticated in order to gain the level of intellectual humility required.

_Intellectual courage_ is a difficult assignment. We all tend to place great value on our own opinion, which is more often than not just something that we grabbed as it flew by. But this is even more of a problem when we are “wedded” to something that we have a strong commitment to, for what ever reason. Our political affiliation is one example.

Intellectual courage is especially difficult, and even dangerous to our well being when we hold ideas that society considers them to be dangerous; even though we are confident that they are rationally grounded. Society often punishes severely all forms of nonconformity; the execution of Socrates by the citizens of Athens might serve as a good example. 

By developing this character trait of intellectual courage we will often be ostracized from a group or even a large community. Such an experience will give us incentive to recognize that most people live their lives in such a manner as to be secure in the middle of the approval of those about us.

Intellectual courage ain’t for sissies!

_Intellectual empathy_ is a consciousness that one must engage the imagination in an effort to intellectually place your self into the shoes of another so as to comprehend that other person as well as possible. To accomplish this transaction we must try to learn as much as possible about the other person’s situation so as to reconstruct that person’s assumptions, premises, and ideas.

Many of these ideas were gleaned from the book _Critical Thinking: Tools for Taking Charge of Your Professional and Personal Life_ by Richard Paul and Linda Elder

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## billl

> _Intellectual empathy_ is a consciousness that one must engage the imagination in an effort to intellectually place your self into the shoes of another so as to comprehend that other person as well as possible. To accomplish this transaction we must try to learn as much as possible about the other person’s situation so as to reconstruct that person’s assumptions, premises, and ideas.


Well, without stalking I assume.  :Smile:  (Or aggressive, unethical data-mining.)

I think your latest words about CT are all good points, and intellectual empathy is a good technique to employ in discussion and thought. I think your defense of non-conformity is a strong enough defense of individual rights, but I just wanted to make the quick point that we can navigate well enough without knowing absolutely everything about others. One of the important things to be careful about--if we want to value individuality--is a right to privacy. I think an important measure of CT's effectiveness would be its ability to respect others in the face of a lack of information.

It is intellectual empathy that leads me to be concerned about "techno-fetishism" and hyper-intellectualism. The human experience is far richer than our interface with the technologies and metaphysics that sometimes entertain, enrich, and even endanger us. I'd really like to see a limit on the necessity for people to engage with these issues. Community and relationships are in many ways sustained by simple pleasures. At some point, even at the price of efficiency, I think we should allow people to retain some level of continuity in their lives, so that they can turn their attention to an inter-personal development with a lover and/or friends, or a hobby, or art, etc. I think that it is incumbent on those who take a concern in the "higher" concerns to protect the less-interested or less-informed from any mess that might subsequently be created.

Despite the loaded, somewhat hideous nomenclature, I think that the idea of an "elite" is a good one, and I think we already have it. I applaud your concern that everyone become more capable (via CT) of understanding and evaluating (and choosing who to empower among) the members of such an "elite".

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## islandclimber

I don't worry too much about it.. i just want to see the sun rise in the west someday  :Tongue:

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## coberst

> Well, without stalking I assume.  (Or aggressive, unethical data-mining.)
> 
> Despite the loaded, somewhat hideous nomenclature, I think that the idea of an "elite" is a good one, and I think we already have it. I applaud your concern that everyone become more capable (via CT) of understanding and evaluating (and choosing who to empower among) the members of such an "elite".



Our culture is very anti-intellectual. I suspect that this is so because the controlling oligarchy wants us to detest independent thinking. They, the oligarchy, have made the word elite nasty upon the tongue of the muddled masses.

What is meant by intellectual? I suspect you would get ten different answers from ten different people but I will tell you what it means to me.

Intellectual activity is exploring and enthusiastically utilizing this marvelous brain we were all given at birth. I suspect the normal adult brain is in neutral almost all of his or her life. When we finish schooling most people seem to consider their intellectual search for truth is over. In fact most people do not even examine such an idea.

An intellectual life is a life in which the search for truth and meaning becomes an important hobby. The person with an intellectual life spends as much time trying to understand as s/he spends learning how to hit a golf ball properly.

All of us pass through a schooling system that is designed to fill our heads with the knowledge we need to get a good job. Our schooling prepares us to become strong and industrious workers and voracious consumers. We have been prepared to become maximizers of production and consumption.

An intellectual life is one we must create after schooling so that we can create our value system more in tune with what we are as intellectual beings than what we are as consumers.




> I don't worry too much about it.. i just want to see the sun rise in the west someday



That is called adolescence and will pass with time.

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## billl

I think it might, arguably, be called great wisdom, as well. (Except, one probably shouldn't worry about maybe not seeing the sun rise in the West ever...)

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## kasie

> Well, without stalking I assume.  (Or aggressive, unethical data-mining.)......


Perhaps coberst did not have such a sinister process in mind, billl! I wonder if he was thinking of what I have long thought of as a 'leap in imagination' where one changes places in imagination with the person with whom one is debating/aguing/in conflict with and asks oneself 'How does this look from his/her point of view?' or 'If this were happening to me how would I feel about it?' It often helps to take a step back at certain points of a relationship and try to see it from the other person's perspective.

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## Scheherazade

"Live and let live" is a good goal, I believe.

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## billl

@kasie, I'm (pretty) sure you're right about coberst's intentions  :Smile: . My post was caution-wrapped-in-silliness.

But I couldn't help but double-check that particular point, because technology is a big part of the discussion, including its misuse. Since he ignored it, I guess we can assume that, yes, coberst is anti-stalking, and pro-privacy-rights-protection.

I think Scheherezade's post was right-on-time, something that I could easily waste a page trying to explain...

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## AuntShecky

To answer your question, yours truly has lived sufficiently long enough (perhaps too long!) to come to the realization that setting goals for oneself often leads to bitter disappointment. Of course, "criticial thinking" would offer the reminder that one should only set "realistic" (i.e. achievable goals) for oneself. But when one finds it frustrating even to achieve small goals, even after hard work and determination, that's where the frustration sets in. I'm speaking about those of us who may have had the misfortune of starting life already with two strikes against us: born in poverty, or orphaned at an early age, or beset with some kind of physical or psychological impediment, or suffering cricumstances beyond their control which forbid them somehow from self-actualization. It doesn't help to be saturated by the media, who ignore the rule and tout the exceptions (with the prominent examples of Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor, President Obama and similar famous rags-to-riches stories.) It may be a matter of luck -- and woe to those who brag that they "make their own luck!" especially when we life hands one such an enormous basket of lemons that he or she cannot even begin to make the proverbial lemonade. Yet, like the remaining item in Pandora's box, we cling to hope.

Those who preach and practice the philosophy of Buddhism try to teach us that not to desire anything, that life is mere illusion. (Why the rich and powerful have more comfortable "illusions" we aren't told!) The Judeo-Christian disdain for "things of this world" is part of this. For centuries, the rank-and-file ordinary Joes have been told by the Church to forget about this life and worry about the next, where after a seemingly "moral" and upright existence, one will be --finally, I guess, rewarded. This "pie in the sky" tradition, I guess, is like a celestial version of the old "layaway" plans department stores use to have in the days before credit cards: pay little-by-little and brink your purchase home later. 

This is why the priests and nuns told us that living to insure "salvation for your immortal soul" should be one's ultimate goal. But the big danger of that is that the day-to-day problems besetting both individuals and society as a whole gets placed on the back burner. An example of this comes when the environmental movement began in the late 60s and 70s when the religious right had the mindset of "why should we try to save this world for future generations if Jesus is coming back to destroy it anyway?"

On the other hand, a spiritual or religious philosophy of life that gives one's existence meaning may indeed be more important than setting "goals."

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## islandclimber

> That is called adolescence and will pass with time.


I might suggest it is called the realization that planning for the future, having ultimate goals and working towards them, well it makes day to day life tedious and somewhat futile.Unless those dreams and goals are impossible ones, well then things get interesting. 

I much prefer living my life day by day, without a care about things like saving for retirement, a steady career, doing things that benefit this world, raising a family, getting rich, etc. etc. I'm 25, I support myself, I live spontaneously and randomly, I enjoy myself, and I don't infringe upon anyone else's right to do the same... If this is adolescence, and it probably is, I hope I remain the eternal adolescent...  :Biggrin:

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## billl

well, it's fun to make other people happy too, once in a while.  :Smile:  maybe you just left it out to be extra-honest about self-interest or something.

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## AuntShecky

I have a question for you, Coberst, as well as for your devoted disciples (among whom you can count yours truly).

When one lives in a relatively affluent society, a phenomenon that could be called a "sense of entitlement" often evolves. In the case of the U.S., there is a basis for it in the documented phrase "the pursuit of happiness." That's all well and good, "positive," as the educationists like to say, and hopeful.

Yet there is a downside to this. Among our many cultural myths, perhaps the most dangerous are the ones that inspire false hope, for instance, the pervasive belief that "anyone can grow up to be President" ( or an NBA star or a Cy Young award-winning pitcher or a Pop star or what have you.) When we see pedestrian examples of folks with ordinary (and often less-than-ordinary) talent rise to the top, that gives credence to this horribly misleading lie. "YOU too! can be the next Shaquile O'Neal or Britney Spears or what have you."

Beware unrealistic expectations!

Contemporary "culture" (I use the term ironically) has proven Andy Warhol's oft-quoted prediction that "In the future everyone will be famous for fifteen minutes." Part of this is the malady which I call the "American Idol Syndrome" in which a young person has vaulting ambition which exceeds far beyond the limits of his or her talent, if such a talent even exists at all.

So here's my question: 

How can a individual set a realistic achievable goal without necessarily limiting herself or himself in the first place -- and how can a person regain hope after a lifetime of disappoihtment?

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## haraf_ish

Carpe diem! Don't let others live for you...live your life. Explore and experiment...

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## blazeofglory

In fact I have so many goals of life at the same time.

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## hoope

To make a change in the life of kids 
I wanna volunteer in poor war countries where they need doctors and nurses
and help the needy.. coz its by helping other that i can be happy..
giving them hope,,, and life 

I see the future in kids.. and i guess we have to do soemthing to do this right 
Everyday .. we hear millions of kids dying .. either from hunger , poverty or abuse

My goal in life is to make a difference in the life of a child

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## blazeofglory

In fact the real goal of life is to be what I am, not the masked one, the essence of what man is. 

We are in fact a bunch of masks, ideas, and live conditioned by what we read or hear in society that buries or cover up what we really are. 

We tend to behave rationally whereas I want to behave instinctively, listening to the subconscious within me

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## Delta40

to dispel rather than quell anger as it arises throughout my life

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## billl

> We tend to behave rationally whereas I want to behave instinctively, listening to the subconscious within me


Humans are unlike other animals in that we have a highly developed language, and the ability to reflect and think rationally. Should we say that language, reflection, and rationality are all mistakes? Is it better to act on instinct all of the time? If we did that, we would be like other animals: innocent, and perhaps easier to train.

For me, I see the problem being the fact that rationality and reflection have made matters more complicated, and people prefer simple understanding. Really, I think we should use rationality, thought, reflection, etc. as best as we can, and maintain our ability to rely on instinct when it is appropriate.

One of many challenges we face is deciding/learning how and when to act on instinct _or instead_ to act according to rationality--how to value the both of them, and apply them properly.

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## mal4mac

My ultimate goal is to read the next book. This was going well until I tried to read the Bible! So I now allow myself to skip unreadable books. Back on track!

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## coberst

> In fact I have so many goals of life at the same time.


You have more than one ultimate goal? That sounds strange. It is like having more than one ultimate value upon which all other values are subserviant.

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## blazeofglory

> You have more than one ultimate goal? That sounds strange. It is like having more than one ultimate value upon which all other values are subserviant.


In fact we are kind of trying to focus on one goal but in practice we cannot go without taking too many goals.

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## coberst

> In fact we are kind of trying to focus on one goal but in practice we cannot go without taking too many goals.


I would call most goals as being proximate goals rather than ultimate goals. Our ultimate goal becomes our North Star.

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## blazeofglory

> I would call most goals as being proximate goals rather than ultimate goals. Our ultimate goal becomes our North Star.


No goal can be ultimate. Once you summit a height another bigger emerges before you.

The peak is an illusion. There is nothing called peak.

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## grotto

> No goal can be ultimate. Once you summit a height another bigger emerges before you.
> 
> The peak is an illusion. There is nothing called peak.


What Blaze said!

My ultimate goal is to have no goal, that in it self is a goal so I haven't reached it yet. To be as is without judgment or definition and to see what is as it is with no attachment.

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## coberst

> No goal can be ultimate. Once you summit a height another bigger emerges before you.
> 
> The peak is an illusion. There is nothing called peak.


The ultimate goal for many people is to go to heaven. My ultimate goal is to prevent the destruction of life on this planet. One can change ultimate goals just as some people can change from belief in theism to belief in anti-theism.




> What Blaze said!
> 
> My ultimate goal is to have no goal, that in it self is a goal so I haven't reached it yet. To be as is without judgment or definition and to see what is as it is with no attachment.


I suspect that many people have no conscious ultimate goal but this is, I suspect, because they have not yet become critically self-conscious.

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## grotto

It's always wise to suspect.

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## billl

"All I want in life is to walk along the beach, holding my lover's hand."

Michelle Bachelet, current president of Chile.

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## MANICHAEAN

There are those that are billed to death,
Those that are bored to death,
And those that are quite simply worried to death.

Life.
Get the financial bit behind you first of all.
The end of ambition comes as a great relief when you attain it.
Keep the body going as long as you can within its limits.
Always stretch the brain & the imagination.

Enjoy the basics of life: good food, sleep, wine & the love of a woman, your family & your friends.

Slide into the grave sideways totally worn out.
Help your kids but dont leave them everything.
The aim is to spend all you have earned before you die.
The last cheque should be for the undertaker and that should bounce.

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## Drkshadow03

My ultimate goal is to be happy. Not some sort of pleasure-filled hedonism, although there may be some days when one splurges. Rather a general contentment with life where I can wake up and be excited about the day, come home from work and be excited to see my loved ones, go to work and be excited.

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## blazeofglory

Man's goal change. When you scale a height and once you are there you visualize greater heights or peaks. Goal is not static and we cannot stick to goal.

I had so many goals in life. At one time I wanted to be a poet and suddenly it changed and I chose to be a prose writer later on, and now actually I am a banker and want to be promoted to higher ranks or have positions. Maybe I can be satisfied with that as much as I could with poetry.

Nothing is static and everything is in flux in this world. Values change, our interest change and faiths too.

Then how can I say I have a goal and I live up to it throughout my life.

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## caddy_caddy

I used to think of ultimate goals which put too much weight on my shoulders. Now I think of minor goals so that I can reach it and get the feeling that I achieved sth in my life.

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## r0land

Worrying to much about reaching the one big goal in life will probably lead to not reaching anything at all.

I try to live a happy life and most times there's more than one way to achieve that ..

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## DanielBenoit

I don't have any particular _goal_ besides to love and be loved.

That said, I've always found this quote to be quite a summation of my perception of life, it's from Godard's first film _Breathless_, the character who says it is responding to the same question:

"To become immortal and then to die."

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## The Comedian

My ultimate goal is. . . . .to keep on searchin' brother. Just never stop lookin'.

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## Hurricane

Don't suck.

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## eric.bell

My goal in life is to continually be spiraling out intellectually, as well as physically (i.e. to always be challenging myself in some way; to push my mind and body to their limits). But in the end, my goal is to be able to close my eyes at the end of the day (maybe even for the last time) with a satisfied mind. I love this world oh so dearly - but, when I go, I want a grin on my face and peace in my mind.

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## JacobF

> My ultimate goal is to be happy. Not some sort of pleasure-filled hedonism, although there may be some days when one splurges. Rather a general contentment with life where I can wake up and be excited about the day, come home from work and be excited to see my loved ones, go to work and be excited.


I have many practical goals but as an 'ultimate' goal this sums it up for me. I want to focus on my own happiness, but I do not want to be in a constant state of want. I want to be satisfied with my life and my work, regardless of whether I have wealth or extravagance.

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## dizzydoll

Our goals change, or rather should change throughout our lives. My father wanted me to do modelling, I was more interested in the other side of the camera.. but never got down to it. And so, your thread gives birth to a new goal. Photography. I shall add it to my list. lol.  :Hurray: 

But on a more serious note, my spiritual goal is to learn to give more than what I ask, and thats no easy task. Giving covers a lot a ground which I peg as I slowly go. 'Giving' means giving up a lot of habits too, like pride. Giving benefit of the doubt.

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## blazeofglory

I liken goals to cups of coffees and we want change in tastes and the same taste does not appetize us all the time. I wanted to be something and now I am that with this I am more bored, borer than when I was none of it

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## JuniperWoolf

> My ultimate goal is. . . . .to keep on searchin' brother. Just never stop lookin'.


That's a very good answer.

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## blazeofglory

My goal? I have several goals, and they are changing every time. My initial goal was to be a great devotee and I prayed and prayed and prayed but God never heard my prayers and I changed my goal. I wanted to be a good teacher and taught for a few years and got fed up finally that I never could anything new and all I have taught them was already intrinsically in them and I shrank from teaching. I wanted to be a writer thinking that I will enlighten my readers but realized that by already thought by others and I only was an imitator or an unauthorized copier of my predecessors. 

Now what goals should I have? Is there any worthwhile goal? I am contemplating for eternity

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## caesar

Since it won't happen in my life-time, I want to contribute my bit to the advancement of humans whose ultimate goal is to take complete control of their destiny, to become masters of the universe, to become gods or what we make of him/her/it.

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## blazeofglory

> Since it won't happen in my life-time, I want to contribute my bit to the advancement of humans whose ultimate goal is to take complete control of their destiny, to become masters of the universe, to become gods or what we make of him/her/it.


Yes this fantasy has always driven us and this reminds me Marlow's Dr. Faustus he bargained his soul with the devil and of course man has progressed terrifically even at the cost of the environment he is in. Today our world speaking environmentally is a worse place to live in, but technologically we are advancing. We of course there can not be a balance. 

Taking complete control of natural forces, destiny and everything man has been master but in some ways man is weaving a trap that will ambush in a while

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## caesar

> Yes this fantasy has always driven us and this reminds me Marlow's Dr. Faustus he bargained his soul with the devil and of course man has progressed terrifically even at the cost of the environment he is in. Today our world speaking environmentally is a worse place to live in, but technologically we are advancing. We of course there can not be a balance. 
> 
> Taking complete control of natural forces, destiny and everything man has been master but in some ways man is weaving a trap that will ambush in a while


When I say that the goal is to become Gods, it's not just to be omnipotent, but also to have all the virtues we attribute to him/her/it. In any case, why does it matter if we destroy the environment in the process of becoming Gods? What use would we have for environment when we are Gods? We can create a new universe if we want.

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## blazeofglory

> When I say that the goal is to become Gods, it's not just to be omnipotent, but also to have all the virtues we attribute to him/her/it.


All the virtues God has are what constitute God. God is not a piece of flesh or a heap of bones like what we humans are constituted of in point of fact. God is not a fixed state, it is a process, and God is not an idea but a super or supreme reality and our earthbound senses and reasoned or rational mindsets cannot comprehend this mystery. 

Now your goal to have all the virtues, not one or two of God is a far cry, an untenable desire and completely UNATTAINABLE desire. It is a fantasy and fantasizing something though on unrealistic ground is fascinating

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## caesar

> It is a fantasy and fantasizing something though on unrealistic ground is fascinating


That's what people thought about flying.

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## blazeofglory

> That's what people thought about flying.


You are absolutely right.

My goals or desires cannot be earthbound, rules bound and of course system bounds. I am unbound.

Of course one of my goals is to break through social and ethical barriers and I hate limitations whether social, cultural or ethical

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## Satan

> God is not a fixed state, it is a process, and God is not an idea but a super or supreme reality and our earthbound senses and reasoned or rational mindsets cannot comprehend this mystery.


A self-contradictory statement.

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## Cassidy Vitales

My goal in life is to be here and present and to live as best as I could....

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## dizzydoll

> My goal in life is to be here and present and to live as best as I could....


That's it in a nutshell. Nothing else is needed.

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## Dodo25

> You are absolutely right.
> 
> My goals or desires cannot be earthbound, rules bound and of course system bounds. I am unbound.
> 
> Of course one of my goals is to break through social and ethical barriers and I hate limitations whether social, cultural or ethical


Is it possible that you mean 'ethnical barriers' instead of 'ethical barriers'? Because the only way I can imagine someone breaking an ethical barrier is by doing something unethical, and it would be a bit odd if that was your goal in life..

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## blazeofglory

Ethics is a concept not a constant and it changes, an idea that camouflages with respect to time and space. What ethical values we hade esteemed a century ago are discarded today as they lacked luster. I do not stick to set ethical standards. That said I do not mean I will commit a murder. But there are some ethical norms that are baseless and need revision

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## Cunninglinguist

We can never hold all the same properties as God. His throne, as it were, is not upheld by the faith of his followers, whereas the throne of any man is. This is the primary difference, and, according to Milton, Satans inability to make this distinction is what led him to believe his rebellion against god would work and consequently landed him in Hell.

Im not too sure what saving your soul means. What are you saving your soul from? And what is the soul? The statement saving your soul could warrant a whole plethora of responses, and I dont want to get into the hermeneutics of this statement.

Everyones ultimate goal is to be happy but in order to achieve this we take on proximate goals. In my words I wouldve said we all intend to be happy but take on very different methods in order to actualize this intention. But in order to make these statements carry much meaning the first hurdle we have to jump is defining happiness. I havent got much of an answer for that one. There are some people who say it is a state of desirelessness, and others who say hedonism is synonymous with happiness. I happen to disagree with both of these views. Does anyone want to endeavor to answer this question?

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## Alexander III

To answer the question honestly; to attain Immortality...

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## BasDirks

An answer would have to take into account the contingent nature of our being. I think that many people if they were to compare their "ultimate goal" to their actual lives, would have to re-evaluate their goal if they are not to deceive themselves. I don't deny a possible value in formulating such a goal. 

The closest I could come to an answer to your question would be to say that such a goal continually rolls itself out in front of me, and that I am to become aware of it, the awareness being part of the motion of this goal.

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## BasDirks

> Im not too sure what saving your soul means. What are you saving your soul from? And what is the soul? The statement saving your soul could warrant a whole plethora of responses, and I dont want to get into the hermeneutics of this statement.


I think you know perfectly well the kind of discourse to which "saving your soul" belongs, and that is sufficient for this discussion.

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## caddy_caddy

> Everyone’s ultimate goal is to be happy but in order to achieve this we take on “proximate goals.” In my words I would’ve said we all intend to be happy but take on very different methods in order to actualize this intention. But in order to make these statements carry much meaning the first hurdle we have to jump is defining happiness. I haven’t got much of an answer for that one. There are some people who say it is a state of desirelessness, and others who say hedonism is synonymous with happiness. I happen to disagree with both of these views. Does anyone want to endeavor to answer this question?


Well , after so many years of struggle ,I've reached the conclusion that there is no happiness in this life . These are fleeting moments that can never last . 
I was very sad because I couldn't be happy like the fairy tales " and they lived happy forever ." It's an illusion or rather fiction that has no place in reality .

Now my ultimate goal is " goodness " in every possible way . Goodness can last , as both deed and effect ,and everything else will perish . I am not sad any more . It is not a state of desirelessness but a new consciousness that substitutes what is eternal for what is temporal .

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## mal4mac

> Now my ultimate goal is " goodness " in every possible way . Goodness can last , as both deed and effect ,and everything else will perish . I am not sad any more . It is not a state of desirelessness but a new consciousness that substitutes what is eternal for what is temporal .


This looks like the stoic approach to life, but it depends what you mean by "goodness". 

How can you be good in every possible way? If you work really hard you might become a really good golfer, but you would not have time to become a really good tennis player. What happens if goodness doesn't last as an effect? For instance Christ was good, but it didn't last, just look at the Spanish Inquisition! How do you know if goodness is eternal? As you (might) have only a finite life it's not certain it will be eternal for you.

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## caddy_caddy

Originally Posted by mal4mac 
This looks like the stoic approach to life, but it depends what you mean by "goodness". 

*I don't know about stoicism , this is a decision I made , my new philosophy in life .*

How can you be good in every possible way? If you work really hard you might become a really good golfer, but you would not have time to become a really good tennis player. 

*By every possible way I mean if you're a golfer , try to be a good golfer and do good by being a golfer and that's enough .*

What happens if goodness doesn't last as an effect? For instance Christ was good, but it didn't last, just look at the Spanish Inquisition!
*It last in the hearts of those who trully know him and love him .*

How do you know if goodness is eternal?
*Because goodness is an attribute of God , and God is eternal , then his attribute is eternal .*
As you (might) have only a finite life it's not certain it will be eternal for you.
*God said I'll have one and I do believe Him .* 

__________________

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## mal4mac

> *By every possible way I mean if you're a golfer , try to be a good golfer and do good by being a golfer and that's enough .*


What do you do if you become injured? What do you do in the time you can't spend golfing? Tiger Woods seemed to have a very poor idea of how to spend his downtime. How do you "do good" just by being a golfer? As Tiger Woods showed golf *alone* doesn't seem to very good at inspiring sexual continence or good ways to deal with fame.

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## blazeofglory

My goal in life varies, changes, multiplies and expands and I want to expand cosmically to be God

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## punk sheep

To die alone on a urine-stained mattress.

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## BasDirks

> To die alone on a urine-stained mattress.


win!!

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## blazeofglory

My goal?I want to know the secret of the universe and this is my implicit goal and I always meditate over this question untiringly at least once a day and yet I always failed to arrived at the answer and yet this is my ultimate goal - to know who I am and what this universe is

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## andrewoberg

Hmmm, I'd have to say to _live_ until I die. And to accept my time when it's come.

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## caddy_caddy

> What do you do if you become injured? What do you do in the time you can't spend golfing? Tiger Woods seemed to have a very poor idea of how to spend his downtime. How do you "do good" just by being a golfer? As Tiger Woods showed golf *alone* doesn't seem to very good at inspiring sexual continence or good ways to deal with fame.


 You can always find a way to do good .I can never understand Mr Wood's perspective . However ,goodness is about your intentions too . If you intented to do sth good and couldn't for some reasons still rewarded for your intentions .




> My goal in life varies, changes, multiplies and expands and I want to expand cosmically to be God


You really wish to be God Harold ?????
I can't think of such a thing , just thinking .

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## Scheherazade

> Tiger Woods seemed to have a very poor idea of how to spend his downtime.


I don't think it was his "downtime" that was the cause of his troubles.

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## andrewoberg

> I don't think it was his "downtime" that was the cause of his troubles.


Zing! lol :FRlol:

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## andrewparkin

My ultimate aim in life is to become successful. I need to be successful financially. The reason for it is I need to be able to make a difference in some childrens lives. I need to be able to provide some educational tools to help them to become successful . This will enable them to change the lives of themselves & relatives members. plenty of people are not blessed to benefit from a number of the things that other more blessed kids can. I think that every child ought to have the exact same opportunities irrespective of thier social status. So my final aim is to become successful to help others that are less blessed. :Cool:

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## mal4mac

> My ultimate aim in life is to become successful. I need to be successful financially. The reason for it is I need to be able to make a difference in some childrens lives. I need to be able to provide some educational tools to help them to become successful . This will enable them to change the lives of themselves & relatives members. plenty of people are not blessed to benefit from a number of the things that other more blessed kids can. I think that every child ought to have the exact same opportunities irrespective of thier social status. So my final aim is to become successful to help others that are less blessed.


What happens if you don't become successful? If you do, what if the children "go bad" anyway? What is the measure of success?

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## breathtest

ultimate goal? to make as many friends as possible

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## Kyriakos

I have a number of goals, hm:

1) To be happy. This is probably the most important goal of all for me, since it is a prerequisite for the others as well, as i view it nowdays.

2) To be producing literature that i like, since i am an author.

3) To have a stable basis of my existence, so i can from that travel in the world of thought without any worries or threats. Again i think that this is achieved by feeling happy, having a lot of energy  :Smile:

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## mal4mac

> I have a number of goals, hm:
> 
> 1) To be happy. This is probably the most important goal of all for me, since it is a prerequisite for the others as well, as i view it nowdays.
> 
> 2) To be producing literature that i like, since i am an author.
> 
> 3) To have a stable basis of my existence, so i can from that travel in the world of thought without any worries or threats. Again i think that this is achieved by feeling happy, having a lot of energy


I agree with your first goal. But...

What is happiness? Is it pleasure, that is, a feeling of tranquillity (Epicurus), pursuing virtue (Stoics), union with the Form of the Good (Plato), philosophical contemplation/study (Aristotle), something else?

If your literature gets rejected then will you still feel happy? The literary life doesn't seem very stable - you might have writers block, readers might ignore your work, you might not even get published...

You say that a stable existence comes from feeling happy. How does that work, exactly? 

To me, it seems the other way around - when you get a stable existence then happiness occurs. So, for instance, Epicureans reduce their needs to a minimum and move to a "Garden" to get a stable life, *then* they are happy. Stoics train themselves to pursue virtues continuously to make a stable life for themselves, *then* they are happy...

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