# Reading > General Literature >  Russian literature

## Pantelej

What do you think about Russian literature?

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## Pensive

I have heard that Crime and Punishment is a great piece of Russian Literature but I have not experienced it yet.

I know some people who think that Russian Literature is absolutely stunning.

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## swapnil

Yes, the Russian literature is among the greatest, whether it be Pushkin or Tolstoy!!!

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## Pantelej

I'm reading War and peace right now
But i have already read Crime and punishment

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## Pensive

> I'm reading War and peace right now
> But i have already read Crime and punishment


Cool, How was "Crime and Punishment"?

People have told me that it is a complex read.

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## Pantelej

well it's quite complex, the most i figuerd out 
first after reading it, it was absolutly stunning

Has anyone read "The silent Don"?

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## Logos

I wish I could read Russian lit in _Russian_ instead of relying on translations  :Confused:

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## Pantelej

yes, it would be much nicer to be able
to read every book in it's original language
But especialy Russian books, Russian
is a very diferent language, compared
to other languages, i think.

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## Pensive

I was reading a Japenese translation today and I wished a lot that somehow I would have known Japanese.

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## Koa

Russian Literature is one of the main reasons why I studied Russian at University. I am absolutely not at the level of reading Dostoevsky and co. in original, but I am reading a novel by a contemporary (is this the word?well he died in 1990) author and I am coping better than I would have ever expected.

Most Russian classics are absolutely huge, it's funny to see how much these guys could write  :Wink:  But they're mostly incredibly interesting... like Crime & Punishment, the first time I read it I just swallowed it in like 4 days... The second time took me longer and it was somehow heavier, I guess I was trying to look deeper... 
I plan on re-reading Master and Margarita as soon as I've finished my current read (still Russian.. Everything Flows by Vasilij Grossman), cos I havent appreciated that much years ago and I might enjoy it more now that I have a nuch richer historical and cultural background.
Thinking about it, probably a good 70% of what I've read in the past 5 years was Russian...

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## Pantelej

I can't find anything by Vasilij Grossman anywhere

I'm living on the countryside, there aren't so many bookstores around here.

Have you read anything by Michail Sholokhov

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## simona

I like very much russian literature. I have just finished to read some short stories by Chekhov.They were very funny and well written.I have also read "The idiot" by Dostoievsky.It is a complex novel where the autor presents some of his experiences and thoughts.I would like to know more about Russia and now I am trying to learn this language( I hope I will succeed).

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## Pantelej

Russia is very exciting, huge and endless,
sometime i will go there.
Even though it,s cold.

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## Koa

Well pantelej, you're from Sweden, it's cold there too...so you might not suffer too much if you go to Russia  :Wink: 
Or just go in the summer... I went to Moscow last August and it wasn't cold at all, just the opposite for a couple of weeks... then it got fresher but still i've never suffered from cold there.

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## Pantelej

Has anyone read " Doctor Zjivago" ?

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## Koa

Yep I did...if you search the forums, there must be at least one topic about it.
And I remember at least 2 threads about War and Peace.

edit: here you can find something about Zhivago
http://www.online-literature.com/for...ead.php?t=4342

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## Pantelej

Actualy it's only realy cold in northern Sweden.
But you maybe find it cold, i only know that it's colder in 
Russia.
But you're right, i heard it's -70 - +50 in some places.

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## Koa

I think -70 is impossible... if that's celsius...

Siberia is cold, like it can get to -40 I think, but in the summer they have +20 ore even +30.

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## Pantelej

Maybe the climate affects the writing

actualy, in Jakutsk they got - 70 deegrees celsius.

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## Koa

> Maybe the climate affects the writing


LOL maybe that's why they write long stuff...they can't go out and spend the time writing  :Wink: 

Actually, one thing that is said to have greatly affected Russian culture and therefore literature is the SPACE. Russia is HUGE, and the distances are immense, even hard to imagine for us European packed in (relatively) small countries. Moscow is impressive, everything is incredibly big and everything is so distant, even by metro, which is very fast, you can take one hour to get to a place... And a lot of the space in Russia is empty...sure Moscow is crowded, but there is a lot of empty countryside, I've seen kilometres of green from the plane while I was getting there...

So all that is part of the mystery of the Russian culture: the extreme distances and the extreme temperatures some places get...

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## Pantelej

I agree with you

It is very interesting to see how
climate and space affects the writting.

What do you think is the most interesting with Russian literature?

I think it's the details and the characters

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## EAP

Crime and Punishment: Possibly the most boring book I have read. I gave this book multiple chances but it never ceased to be anything more than a tremendous yawn-fest. Organic Chemistry textbooks are more interesting and I have had more fun reading laundry bills. 

War and Peace: Did these guys get paid by words? Soap Opera at it's worst. 

The Brothers K...: Some more of the above. I just don't get this Dostoevsky loving. He, along with Shakespeare and Joyce, has to be the most overrated fiction author in any language. 

Doctor Zhivago: Did I say boring before? 

Master and Margarita: Brilliant concept, excellent execution and some of the wittiest dialogue ever penned in speculative literature. Easily the most 'flowing' translation I have ever come across, in any language. 

We: The predecessor of works like 'Brave New World' and 'Slaughterhouse Five', it is considered the first modern sci-fi dystopia and a huge influence on Orwell's seminal '1984'. I consider it better than just about any dystopian novel I have read with the exception of Philip K. Dick's 'Do Andriod's Dream of Electric Sheep' and Orwell's 'Animal Farm.' 

Russian non-fiction, on the other hand, I have found to be almost uniformly entertaining and thought-provoking, be it spine-tingling accounts of escape from Gulag's, descriptions of German seiges, memoirs of deserter soldiers, political shifts within the Communist Party or tales of manned exploration and taming the frosty siberian whiteness.

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## Pantelej

what exactly do you like

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## EAP

Does Not Compute.

Error: Insufficent parameters to come up with a tangible hypothesis. Please try again in a few years.

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## Koa

> War and Peace: Did these guys get paid by words? Soap Opera at it's worst.


I actually agree on this: I found it terribly similar to a soap opera, and though I endured the whole thing, I appreciated let's say 20% of it. However I'm glad of having done that and having seen with my eyes what's it all about, especially being a student of Russian I couldnt really miss this part of its culture... Appreciating, well, that's another thing.
I did like Anna Karenina though, it's possibly less soap-opera, and I was particularly surprised of how well Anna's feeling were described, even by a male writer.

Crime and Punishment, well, I've already claimed my love for it... What actually got me into Russian Lit. is actually another novel by Dostoevsky, The Demons, which I adored. I havent tried the Karamazov Brothers yet, possibly soon next year.

Funnily enough, what EAP liked, ie Master & Margarita, was the one I liked less...too much fantasy, too many people flying... but as I said I'll give it another chance soon.

I'm also looking forward to reading We, I'm surprised it's so famous cos when we were meant to read it for an exam, it was impossible to find it, book shops didnt even know about its existance, and a copy was finally found at a library of an obscure village where one of my course mates lived. However I didnt get to read it and I bought a copy in Moscow, which is waiting in line to be my next Russian original read, though I suppose it's going to be extremely challenging...

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## Pantelej

well whatever, you like what you like and i like what i like.
Can we agree to these terms?

The lines above are mentioned for EAP.

I can't tell if war and peace is to much of a soap opera 
since i'm still reading it.
But the Russian aristocracy was much like a soap opera.

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## Jekaterina

I was born in the USSR, so I can read all the Russian Classics in Russian.
I LOVE Russian Literature!
Bulgakov and Dostoevsky are amongst my absolute favourites!

I've started reading Dostoevsky when I was 11. It was a little early, but even then I liked it. Of course now and then I reread some of his work and suddenly see more than I used to. It's great.
I had the Brothers Karamazov as one my finals' books at high school and it was amazing to have the task to dive into a novel that deep. 
At the beginning it was hard (over 1200 pages!) to find something to start with, but then everything, every sentence, every word fitted, everything had a meaning.

Of course, there are many, many other great Russian novellists.

I absolutely adore: Puschkin, Lermontow, Gogol, Turgenew and Tschechov
and if you count him as a Russian too: One of my absolute favourites is also Nabokov! Now, he's really great.

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## Pantelej

What do you think about Sholokhov,Gorki and Tolstoy?
I'm reading War and peace right now.
It's a bit like a soap, but, on the other hand
the Russian aristocracy was much like a soap.
feasts, silly secrets, overwelming wealth while the
porr starve

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## Jekaterina

> What do you think about Sholokhov,Gorki and Tolstoy?
> I'm reading War and peace right now.
> It's a bit like a soap, but, on the other hand
> the Russian aristocracy was much like a soap.
> feasts, silly secrets, overwelming wealth while the
> porr starve


War and Peace isn't that great because of the plot, but because it's written wonderfully. At least, that's what I think.
I've read War and Peace, Anna Karenina, Resurrection and The Kreutzer Sonata. I must say, the Kreutzer Sonata had the biggest impact on me, it was the one novel, that was nearest to the reader, but of course, that's because the plot is set in a train and mostly there's just one person talking.

Gorki didn't write bad, but there's that slight shadow of the communistic propaganda writing over his work... 
Until now, I've never read Sholokhov. Is he good?

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## Pantelej

Actualy i agree with you, In War and Peace it's more the writing than
the plot that effects me.

I think i read something about Gorki being forced by the Soviet regim
to write comunist-friendly.

Sholokhov is very interesting, He dosen't write so much like Dostoyevsky,
more like Tolstoy, though not realy as good ,but still good.
The characters are very interesting. In "The silent Don" the characters 
change with the time, wich is very interesting.
The content is a bit different to, becouse most of his books are about the 
Don-Cosacks. The inviorment is different to, sience the Cosacks were 
living on the stepp. They also had their own laws, not caring to much
about the higher authorities. In most of Sholokhovs books you
can also see the changes each generation brings with it.

What exactly do you think makes Russian literature so special?
I think it's mostly the details and the characters.
Everything is always described so beautifully and the characters
are always very interesting and realistic.
Another thing , i think, is the fact that most Russian writers 
make great things out of pretty simple plots.

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## caspian

Russian literature is too realistic. I think that makes it so special. Not just literature, Russian culture in general is realistic: even a naked woman body or an erotic scene in Russian movie is quite different  I mean quite realistic -than what we get use to see in Hollywood production.
Chehkov , Lermontov is my favorites. Nothing can be compared with Gogol's works. 
I gave up read Dostoyevsky at all after reading (actually I couldnt finish it) one of his longest boring story. Ive already listed Master and Margerita among my boring books. 
I advise to read Anatoly Ribakov and Valentin Rasputin.

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## Pantelej

I think Dostoyevky is very interesting, he describes the characters
so well, he did know things in the human nature long before any 
scientist. He dives deep into the minds of the characters and
describes their feelings and emotions on a hole new level.

It's true, Russian literature is very realistic.Mostly there are no
heroes, more the anti-hero.

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## Aurora Ariel

I plan to read Dostoyevsky before the end of the year, after receiving quite a few recommendations.Formerly, I had only read Tolstoy's War and Peace, and Anna Karenina.Has anyone read all of his works?

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## byquist

Heavy, serious and emotional stuff. But I know a 2-yr. old adopted girl from the Motherland, and she is light as a feather, happy-go-lucky.

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## BSturdy

There are some extremely interesting opinions and suggestions here. (Note to self: read Bulgakov or Nabokov soon) . 

Woah, War and Peace needs to be read together with readers notes - a list of characters (and all their alternative names) and who they are - it's so confusing. I am still 'reading' it as I moved house, mid-read, and (hoped) thought I'd lost it. I will start again/continue though, as I remember really enjoying it. Soap opera? If only Eastenders was written by Tolstoy.

Have read some Dostoevsky, very enjoyable, but find the important bits (the religious philosophy) a bit heavy going. 

I thoroughly recommend - 'The First Circle' by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn: The depiction of a paranoid Stalin is just great. Also (EAP is probably referring to) 'A day in the life of Ivan Denisovich' by same Author. I'm actually reading 'Victory Parades' by him at the moment! I think he is the only modern Russian author I've read.

Thanks forumkins

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## Raven Kaj

I've seen alot of references on here for War and Peace and some of the other well knowns. But, unless I missed it somewhere scrolling through the postings, has anyone read, "Petersburg" by Andrei Bely??? Just curious if anyone has any remarks on that work.

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## Anna Seis

Hi, I like russian literature too, and I'd also rather read in the original lenguage instead of translations, but russian... it's too much for me. The last russian book I have read is Moscú-Petuchki; English translation must be Moscow to the end of the line. It's author is Venedict Erofeiev, and the subject is the last travel of an always drunk man -Vénitchka Erofeiev- who reachs the Kursk station every time he tries to find the Kremlim.
I am triying to get material to write an essay about Samizdat; suggestions will be gratefully accepted.

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## Koa

> Hi, I like russian literature too, and I'd also rather read in the original lenguage instead of translations, but russian... it's too much for me. The last russian book I have read is Moscú-Petuchki; English translation must be Moscow to the end of the line. It's author is Venedict Erofeiev, and the subject is the last travel of an always drunk man -Vénitchka Erofeiev- who reachs the Kursk station every time he tries to find the Kremlim.
> I am triying to get material to write an essay about Samizdat; suggestions will be gratefully accepted.



I have just written my graduation thesis about Samizdat!!! 

The best material I can give you is this brilliant article
http://www.slis.ualberta.ca/issues/sbalazs/samizdat.htm
It compares samizdat to the Internet and provides a good summary of some main aspects of Samizdat...using it as a source gave a great touch of originality to my work.

Then, my main sources were books that you probably don't have available since they are written in Italian and are probably not translated anywhere (I suppose you're Spanish, by how you wrote Moscù...), the main one was written in 1976 by Jurij Mal'cev and it's called L'altra letteratura ("the other literature")... 
You can find an interview to this guy here, it's in Italian but if you are Spanish as I think, you might get the idea of what it says...
http://www.instoria.it/home/MalcevI.htm 

I suggest you also look for books about 'dissidents' and Russian emigration, they may give you some small idea..

You should also have a look at Solzhenytsin "The oak and the lamb" (actually I have no idea of the title in English, the Russian title would literally translated as something like "Tha lamb hit the oak", especially the first chapter when he talks of how he worked to hide his stuff...

And you have to know that just this year in Moscow was published an Anthology of Samizdat, though I dont know if you can find anything about it in languages that are not Russian...
http://antology.igrunov.ru/
http://www.pravda.ru/culture/2005/4/..._samizdat.html

If you need more advice feel free to contact me, my work was a masterpiece  :Wink:  :Wink:  :Wink:

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## Virgil

I too love Russian lit, particularly that of the 19th century. _War and Peace_ is fun for a while, but it does gets too tedious. My favorites: _Anna Karinina_, _Brothers Karamazov_, _Fathers and Sons_. I don't know what makes the 19th century novelists so good. They have this combination of excruciating detail and yet holding a tremendous intensity. Quite unlike the French and English realists of the 19th century. Plus they have ideas, religious and sociatal. One thing that always struck me about the 19th century Russian novelists is that they are carrying medevil conventions and views but forced to confront the modern world. That's what may make them so intense. Plus they are just great writers.

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## Koa

I guess I agree with you Virgil... it's that intensity that can leave you speechless in some parts of the books...

I'm trying to read again Master and Margarita, and just as the other time(s) I just can't concentrate on it. There's something in it that makes my mind wander instead of paying attention to the words (almost like reading War & Peace's historical parts where the same concept is expressed 300 times...almost but not quite like it obviously)... especially in the Pontius Pilatus chapter, It's the 3rd time I read it in my life, and every time I find it kinda tedious... I think I just don't understand Bulgakov...

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## Mark F.

I have read a few novels by Dostoevsky, my favorite is "Crime and Punishment" and "The Idiot" is also very good. Someone mentioned the length of his work and you should all check out his shorter stuff like "White Nights" and especially "Notes From The Underground" which is a true masterpiece.

I've also read quite a few short stories by Gogol, "The Overcoat", "The Nose" and "Diary of a Madman" are all very good pieces of fiction. I want to read a bit more by Dostoevsky and read Tchekovs' plays and short stories.

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## Anna Seis

Hi Koa, te agradezco, je vous remerci, thank you. I'm gonna visit all the sites you put into your message, this weekend. I'll fight italian difficulties. Russian Literature of 20th century is one of my caprices; in facts, all literatures of runaways and castaways and people on the run or writing in secret. I am thinking about relations between Dostoievsky's Man from underground and Moskow-Petouchki, viewing from an bakhtinian point of view. At University they refused the purpose, because they are most interested in Paul Auster, feminist literature, psychoanalysis... but I don't give up and I will keep on trying to write what I want to. Thanks again.
Ps. I must read Solkhenitsin, of course; Evgenia Semionovna Ginzburg I have readed some years ago.

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## Koa

De nada, you're welcome, de rien...  :Wink:  I particularly recommend the samizdat-internet article.

Samizdat is a really interesting topicm shame they're so into feminism at your place  :Wink:  Good luck!

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## delirioussorrow

> I think I just don't understand Bulgakov...



what you have to understand about reading any of Bulgakov and especially Master and Margarita, the man was definitely not sober while writting it and hallucinating for most of it. That might be why it makes the mind wonder, cuz from my experience, whether i read him in russian or english, my mind wanders to places its never been before.

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## Koa

Is that true? Not sober? That would explain some things... :Rolleyes: 
My mind does wander too... just to thoughts that have nothing to do with the book...
It's actually a few days since I last picked it up, I can't say I dislike it but it doesnt make me want to read it so eagerly...

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## michela

i think russian lit. is really fascinating,but also as hard as russian language is.
I've read something of Marina I. cvetaeva apart from her poems(absolutely perfect in form and ideas) a short story whose title was "nights in Florence" which is a collection of hers letter to a man she was in love with.
I also have experienced the huge "Anna Karenina"and it left me speechless, even though i have to say i've had some problems with the names because of the "patronimic forms".

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## Virgil

_Anna Karinina_  is fabulous. Has anyone read some of Tolstoy's short novels? _Master and Man_  or _The Death of Ivan Illich_ come to mind. Both are perfections of the short novel. You can't get better than that.

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## Koa

I liked Anna Karenina, I might have said that already but I was quite surprised at the end when Tolstoy described her feelings so well...

I read The Death of Ivan Ilich and also other short stuff (Chadzhi Murat comes to my mind) by Tolstoy, but I wasn't so impressed...they were ok but I am hardly ever excited about short stories, I guess I prefer novels.

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## rachel

Crime and Punishment shook my soul. I wish like my son Travis I could just decide in a week to learn a language so I could read something. He just does that. Everything from Latin to Hindi, I think he currently is fluent it about ten languages. And to think in grade three his teacher told me he was not going to amount to much.
So he gets to catch those nuances that make the text so rich. He is teaching me proper Hebrew, I love reading it and teaching baby Hasia Hebrew and Greek , Latin and the romance languages at the moment. so when she is talking I have to really pay attention. Of course he is doing that so in my despair I will learn all the same languages so we can converse. swine plan. 
I like Leo Tolstoy very much and smile when I read that he wrote will nilly all over this page and that and left them everywhere in the house. His wife would gather them all up and rewrite and put all in order. What a guy.

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## starrwriter

> I liked Anna Karenina, I might have said that already but I was quite surprised at the end when Tolstoy described her feelings so well...


Bleh. I was relieved when Anna lubricated the railroad tracks with her innards. Compared to Russian writers like Dostoevsky and Turgeneyev, Tolstoy was an old maid writing soap operas over his samovar of tea.

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## Virgil

> I wish like my son Travis I could just decide in a week to learn a language so I could read something. He just does that. Everything from Latin to Hindi, I think he currently is fluent it about ten languages. And to think in grade three his teacher told me he was not going to amount to much.


Wow, that's some son of yours. I wish I could do that too.

From Star



> Compared to Russian writers like Dostoevsky and Turgeneyev, Tolstoy was an old maid writing soap operas over his samovar of tea.


Have you tried his short novels. They are more compact. Try either of the two I mentioned above.

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## Koa

> Bleh. I was relieved when Anna lubricated the railroad tracks with her innards. Compared to Russian writers like Dostoevsky and Turgeneyev, Tolstoy was an old maid writing soap operas over his samovar of tea.


Yes, but I think Anna Karenina is a quite well done soap opera. 

Turgenev is still there waiting to be read by me, but Dostoevsky is like...oh there are no words, it's too deep even to describe... His first book I read was The Demons when I was 18, and that was possibly what made me decide to study Russian Language & Literature (and now, 5 years later, I've just finished to read my first (modern) book entirely in Russian...it took 3 months but it was hugely satisfying. On to the next...). He did have a huge impact on me. I'm going to try the Karamazoff Brothers soon hopefully, and re-live all that Demons/Crime & Punishment feeling.

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## MikeK

A suggestion for some of you on this thread who've objected to Dostoevsky's works as too long or boring, etc. Try reading some of his shorter works. They usually contain the same qualities and themes of his long novels. They reach the same heights, only in shorter form. Three of his best short stories are:

"The Dream of a Ridiculous Man"
"A Meek One"/"A Gentle Creature" (Depending on the translator)
"The Eternal Husband"

I also love Chekhov's short stories. The best I've ever read. I only wish that I could read all of this in Russian, as many of you have said.

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## The Unnamable

> I can't find anything by Vasilij Grossman anywhere


http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...470234-1035833


http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...470234-1035833

The former is fascinating, the latter sublime. The former also contains Grossman's writing about the concentration camps ('The Hell called Treblinka'), used at the Nuremberg Trials. You can download a copy in Word format here:

http://s61.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2...W1EQJHZ6MP9TVH

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## Pantelej

Thanks, nice stuff, very interesting

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## Alex E Art

Whether you read russian fantasy or science-fiction?

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## beer good

Has anyone else read Leonid Tsypkin's "Summer In Baden-Baden"? I just read it a couple of months ago and found it absolutely enthralling... 

It's not easily described, though; It is, at the same time, an account of the life of Dostoyevsky, an account of Tsypkin's life in the Soviet Union (it was written between 1977 and 1980), a meditation on Russian literature in general and a few other things... All told in some sort of homespun stream-of-consciousness where time, perspective and place shifts so subtly you often find yourself wondering if it's 1880 or 1980. 

One point Tsypkin, a Jew, keeps getting stuck on is how Dostoyevsky, the man he considers the greatest and most empathic-to-human-suffering author ever, could also be an outright antisemite. Another is that of identity and nationality; Tsypkin follows Dostoyevsky's travels abroad in his mind while he himself is forced to stay in a Soviet Union where he's not wanted, yet is forbidden to leave. 

Apparently, this is the only thing Tsypkin wrote, and he did so without any thought of being published; he died (in 1982) a week after it was first leaked to a Russian-American magazine. It's one of those books that's just so heartbreakingly beautiful you want to live in it, yet you're glad you don't have to...

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## Pantelej

> Has anyone else read Leonid Tsypkin's "Summer In Baden-Baden"? I just read it a couple of months ago and found it absolutely enthralling... 
> 
> It's not easily described, though; It is, at the same time, an account of the life of Dostoyevsky, an account of Tsypkin's life in the Soviet Union (it was written between 1977 and 1980), a meditation on Russian literature in general and a few other things... All told in some sort of homespun stream-of-consciousness where time, perspective and place shifts so subtly you often find yourself wondering if it's 1880 or 1980. 
> 
> One point Tsypkin, a Jew, keeps getting stuck on is how Dostoyevsky, the man he considers the greatest and most empathic-to-human-suffering author ever, could also be an outright antisemite. Another is that of identity and nationality; Tsypkin follows Dostoyevsky's travels abroad in his mind while he himself is forced to stay in a Soviet Union where he's not wanted, yet is forbidden to leave. 
> 
> Apparently, this is the only thing Tsypkin wrote, and he did so without any thought of being published; he died (in 1982) a week after it was first leaked to a Russian-American magazine. It's one of those books that's just so heartbreakingly beautiful you want to live in it, yet you're glad you don't have to...


Iv'e actually never heard of Tsypkin before...

What about Chekhov? I'm reading "Ward no. 6" right now,
it's just great. He describes good and bad, beautiful and ugly,
gentle and brutal so well, especially the differences and the likeneses
of the mentioned.

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## Taliesin

Russian literature.
Our favourite russian writers are Bulgakov, Pelevin and the Strugatski brothers.
Pelevin writes very thought-provokingly and is very postmodern.
Personally, we think that we can't speak much about the presoviet russian literature, because presoviet Russia, and Soviet and Postsoviet Russia are vastly different.
We have only read MM by Bulgakov and that we liked immensely.
Strugatskis are also interesting - they are so different from angloamerican sci-fi - those are usually very clean about the future - but Strugatskis have maintained the social problems, the dirtyness, the grimness, the decadence and the alcoholism. Plus, of course, the really good plot. 
Pelevin - we have read his short stories, Omon-Ra, P-Generation and Chapajev and Pustota - and they are truly wonderful and thought-and-reality-provoking. "Any thought that occurs in the process of reading this book is subject to copyright. Unauthorized thinking of it is prohibited"

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## Koa

Pelevin seems to be quite popular here, but I haven't tried it yet.

I am posting my plea here too: someone please explain me what's so wonderful about Master And Margarita. I had to struggle to read it and I've enjoyed just some bits of it.

I have started today "We" by Zamjatin. I was impressed by the style of writing, I loved the first chapter. I hope the rest won't disappoint me after such a good start.

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## Molko

I'm absolutely in love with Russian Literature, especially a lot of the Classics from Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Pushkin etc etc. Russian literature is very passionate, honest, raw... it delves well into the complexities of life. Furthermore, I like it how there are often traces of despondency and gloom hehehe




> Pelevin seems to be quite popular here, but I haven't tried it yet.
> 
> I am posting my plea here too: someone please explain me what's so wonderful about Master And Margarita. I had to struggle to read it and I've enjoyed just some bits of it.
> 
> I have started today "We" by Zamjatin. I was impressed by the style of writing, I loved the first chapter. I hope the rest won't disappoint me after such a good start.


Ooooh I've always wanted to read "We"!!! But I havent been able to find it anywhere *pouts*

----------


## Koa

> Ooooh I've always wanted to read "We"!!! But I havent been able to find it anywhere *pouts*


It's hard to find here too, I bought it in Russia... it's damn hard to read but so beautifully written...

----------


## Molko

Ohhh you're so lucky Koa *pouts* heheh looks like I may have to buy it on e-bay! Lol

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## LastBandit

> I was born in the USSR, so I can read all the Russian Classics in Russian.
> I LOVE Russian Literature!
> Bulgakov and Dostoevsky are amongst my absolute favourites!
> 
> I've started reading Dostoevsky when I was 11. It was a little early, but even then I liked it. Of course now and then I reread some of his work and suddenly see more than I used to. It's great.
> I had the Brothers Karamazov as one my finals' books at high school and it was amazing to have the task to dive into a novel that deep. 
> At the beginning it was hard (over 1200 pages!) to find something to start with, but then everything, every sentence, every word fitted, everything had a meaning.
> 
> Of course, there are many, many other great Russian novellists.
> ...



I am quite enjoying "Despair", which I picked up at the library yesterday. Just about 50 pages left...and I have "Lolita" lying on my desk to start afterwards!

Started "The Master & Margarita" recently, and i'm finding it to be a compelling read!

----------


## caspian

> Turgenev is still there waiting to be read by me


you'll like him for sure. you'll probably start with 'fathers and sons', that's his most famoes work, 'dim' (smoke) is good as well

----------


## rachel

> Has anyone else read Leonid Tsypkin's "Summer In Baden-Baden"? I just read it a couple of months ago and found it absolutely enthralling... 
> 
> It's not easily described, though; It is, at the same time, an account of the life of Dostoyevsky, an account of Tsypkin's life in the Soviet Union (it was written between 1977 and 1980), a meditation on Russian literature in general and a few other things... All told in some sort of homespun stream-of-consciousness where time, perspective and place shifts so subtly you often find yourself wondering if it's 1880 or 1980. 
> 
> One point Tsypkin, a Jew, keeps getting stuck on is how Dostoyevsky, the man he considers the greatest and most empathic-to-human-suffering author ever, could also be an outright antisemite. Another is that of identity and nationality; Tsypkin follows Dostoyevsky's travels abroad in his mind while he himself is forced to stay in a Soviet Union where he's not wanted, yet is forbidden to leave. 
> 
> Apparently, this is the only thing Tsypkin wrote, and he did so without any thought of being published; he died (in 1982) a week after it was first leaked to a Russian-American magazine. It's one of those books that's just so heartbreakingly beautiful you want to live in it, yet you're glad you don't have to...


I absolutely love Dostoyevsky and am a Jewess so I intend to read this book. I have never heard of it before but just your description is riveting.thankyou for mentioning it.

----------


## Mark F.

Has anyone read Dostoevsky's "The House of the Dead"? I'm thinking of picking it up before reading "The Possessed" this Summer which is a bit too long as I have other stuff to do for Uni. I was just wondering you guys recommend it.

----------


## Koa

Yes I read that book, though the title would be a bit different... well it's definitely worth reading though I remember it being a bit 'hard', like I don't have many clear memories of it (it was ages ago, some 5 years I think) apart from it being a clear example of 'concentration camp' literature, possibly the first one... If I remember correctly, there is no clear plot, just a lot of scenes from the life in the camp... Anyway I don't see why you shouldn't give it a try.

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## Mark F.

I've been through "Crime & Punishment", "The Idiot", "White Nights" and "Notes From The Underground" and liked all of them. Just looking for some more of his stuff before reading "Brothers Karamzov".

----------


## Kashkin

I've noticed a few people picked The Brothers Karamazov. Good luck to you. It doesn't strike me as being of the same standard of his other works. It's exceedingly religious (yes, more so than the others), slow moving and frankly, I don't know which character to empathise with. So I gave up, for now.

Crime and Punishment... can only be disliked by the culturally devoid.
I am soon going to start Pushkin's Eugene Onegin. Any one read it? Or other Pushkin?

----------


## The Unnamable

If you often find yourself wondering about being here and in particular the question, 'what the hell does it all mean?', it's worth reading for the two chapters, Rebellion and The Grand Inquisitor, if nothing else. 

Is empathy necessary? Anyway, what about Ivan and Alyosha?

----------


## blp

> I've been through "Crime & Punishment", "The Idiot", "White Nights" and "Notes From The Underground" and liked all of them. Just looking for some more of his stuff before reading "Brothers Karamzov".


The Double by Dostoyevsky is short and great. It's tone is remarkably similar to Kafka.

----------


## Mark F.

Thanks, I liked Metamorphosis by Kafka so I'll check out as well.

----------


## caspian

> I
> I am soon going to start Pushkin's Eugene Onegin. Any one read it? Or other Pushkin?


I haven't read any poems of Pushkin. though Eugene Onegin was in my school program. in exam I just used my sister's old essay of that poem.  :Wink:  and I've seen cartoons of other poems. 
I just love Pushkin's stories. I've read all of them. "the captain's Daughter", "Stories of Belkin", "dubrovski" etc. all of them are excellent. Easy reading, very interesting. his discription is so well that you feel like u're watching movie. I'm interested in his last -uncompleted work- "The Negro of Peter the Great" more. you'll probably find it interesting too: 

" Pushkin's story is set in the early 1700s when his maternal great grandfather, Abram (or Ibrahim) Hannibal, a black man of African descent, was brought from Europe to Russia by the Tsar (Peter the Great) and eventually given his freedom in exchange for a commitment of lifetime service. Pushkin's African heritage was widely known during his time, and Pushkin himself was very interested in his family background. 
Pushkins "The Negro of Peter the Great" is a fictionalized biography of Ibrahim Hannibal, Pushkins great grandfather. The story covers Hannibals stay in France and the initial period after his return to Russia. Although its scope clearly suggests a work of major proportions, it remained largely uncompleted at Pushkin's death. None of the completed segments were published in his lifetime. It is significant that Pushkin chose a biographical theme for his first attempt at prose fiction. This work represented one of the earliest depictions of the Negro as a hero in world literature. Regardless of the storys shortcomings, it was a strikingly bold characterization for its time. In two completed segments, Hannibal comes through as a strong positive figure who has an affair with a countess in France. His first marriage to a Russian woman of noble birth is central to the remaining fragment. That this black character even existed in 1827 is remarkable; that he fares well is more so.
Note the passage from Hannibals farewell to his lover before leaving Paris: 

"Think: ought I to expose you any longer to such agitations and dangers? Why should I endeavor to unite the fate of such a tender, beautiful creature to the miserable fate of a Negro, of a pitiable creature, scare worthy of the name of man?"
Hannibals self-denigration reflects Pushkins attempt to show the prevailing attitudes toward Blacks. However, he portrays Hannibal himself as accomplished and likable, without any real hints of inferiority. Keep in mind that Pushkin was experimenting with forms of literary expression totally new to Russian literature and that he was expanding the literary language to new dimensions."- 
c\p http://www.ksu.ru/eng/ahern/493/mod1-pushkin.htm

----------


## non sum

although i thoroughly enjoyed most of pushkin's works, both poetic and literary, and found myself enthralled by dostoyevsky's morbidly pessimistic sense of reality, i must say that many of the english translations do not do the works justice. the passion is absent in the flat monotone of the translated versions. i attempted to read mikhail bulgakov's the master and margarita, and was sorely disappointed to find that it reads like a paperback novel...there was simply something missing. it may just be my own twisted perception, or the fact that i've actually read several of the works in their original tongue, but i'm curious to see whether or not anyone else has felt the loss

----------


## Koa

non sum, the loss is the very essence of translation... Moreso in Russian, which has different ways to express things than English does. I am reading Zamjatin's "We" in Russian, confronting it with a translation in Italian, my native tongue (the Russian by itself is too hard  :Frown: ). It's so noticeable how the translation has to jump to try and make justice of things...
I didn't appreciate Master&Margarita at all, though I've never tried the original... I loved and found Dostoevskij so deep even in translation, I just can't imagine the beauty of the original...

As for Pushkin, I read The Captain's Daughter and some of the Belkin's stories, but I'm not so excited about him... it's ok for me, but not my favourite thing...

----------


## alv417

*I have been having some trouble reading Alexander Pushkins Eugene Onegin. 

The famous ending of Eugen Onegin has evoked countless discussions. Is it just? Is it tragic? Is it realistic? Summarize Puskhin's conclusion and comment on the motives and morality of the novel's two principal characters.

Discuss Onegin as a potential date, or boyfriend, or suitor, or husband. What would attract you about him? What would repel you? Try to weigh his virtues and his vices.*

I would appreciate any help from anyone. Even if it is a website that could help me.

----------


## Evergreenleaf

I just finished reading "We" for a global science fiction class. It was pretty good, I thought. Sometimes it was a little hard to follow, and all the commentary about "the ancients" and how confused and wrong they were could be either amusing or irritating. More often than not I found it irritating, even though I knew it was supposed to be kind of satirical on Zamyatin's part, and I usually love satire.

----------


## genoveva

> I've noticed a few people picked The Brothers Karamazov. Good luck to you. It doesn't strike me as being of the same standard of his other works. It's exceedingly religious (yes, more so than the others), slow moving and frankly, I don't know which character to empathise with. So I gave up, for now.


Try again! One of my faves and I am a huge fan of Russian literature! It may seem religious in that it questions religion, but I don't think it means to push one religion. I think not knowing which character to empathise with is part of the experience of the book. Perhaps we can empathise with them all?

As mentioned earlier, at least read The Grand Inquisitor chapter.

I just read this whole thread, and thank you all so much for all the suggested reading!!  :Idea:

----------


## Pantelej

I just started reading "the possesed" by Dostoyevsky, 
I couldn't get my hands on it before.
So far it's very interesting(i've only come to the second chapter)
What i know is that it was ment as a study of nihilism.

----------


## Koa

> I just finished reading "We" for a global science fiction class. It was pretty good, I thought. Sometimes it was a little hard to follow, and all the commentary about "the ancients" and how confused and wrong they were could be either amusing or irritating. More often than not I found it irritating, even though I knew it was supposed to be kind of satirical on Zamyatin's part, and I usually love satire.


I'm finding it amusing instead  :Smile:  I'm loving that book, the style is so wonderful, even if really hard at times. One of the best books ever, even if I'm only at 1/3 of it.

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## Pantelej

There's one thing about many storys written by russians: many of them are full of french quotes. And if you can't speak french you'll have to check them up in the end 
of the books, if there is such thing as a index of french quotes used in the book at all.

----------


## Vedrana

I've read Evgeny Onegin, and I did enjoy it. The ending is pretty good, even if it isn't all that happy. I don't know if I like the translation I have, but since I don't read Russian, I'll have to content myself with what I have. The film is okay as well, although I do think you ought to read the poem as well.

----------


## beer good

Andrei Volos' "Hurramabad" was indeed an interesting book. I guess it qualifies as Russian literature, since it's written by an ethnic Russian from Tajikistan and deals with the whole issue of national/ethnic/cultural identity in a multi-cultural society that was once kept together by an iron fist, and what happens when that fist is removed... covers the whole 20th century, from the Russians who move there when the Soviet Union is in its infancy, to their children who make their home there, to their grandchildren who suddenly find themselves to be outsiders and forced to return to a "mother country" they've never even been to... all told in classic hyper-realistic prose where you can almost smell what's happening, short-story-like installments that interweave over time... very nice. Recommended.

----------


## pearl

Am new on this forum,stumble on the discussion of Russian literature,so I thought I should say one or two things on it.I'm presently reading Brother Kamarazov by Dostoyevsky.Am having a hard time at it,it doesnt just compare with the feelings I had when I was reading Crime and Punishment,or War and Peace by Tostoi.
Am also reading some Chekhov short stories online.
I've heard Anna Karenina is so fantastic,it should be my next target.

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## Boris239

Ok, I'm originally from Russia and I've graduated from Russian high school, so I've read a lot of Russian authors:

Pushkin- it will be difficult to read and fully appreciate hime not in Russian. He is famous not only because of his poems and stories, but as more or less the founder of the modern Russian language. I'd recommend "Captain's daughter", "Povesti Belkina", "Queen of Spades".

Dostoevsky- "Crime and Punishment", "Idiot", "Brothers Karamazov" and "Possessed(Devils)" are all masterpieces(especially the first three). "Brothers Karamazovs" can be a bit difficult because of bunch of Orthodox stuff put into it, but there are parts that I consider among the best I've ever read - like Ivan's story about Chtist and Great Inquisitor.

Tolstoy- to my great shame I haven't read "Anna Karenina", but I enjoyed "war and Peace"(though the ending about the role of individuals in history was tough), "Resurrection", short stories like "Death of Ivan Iliich", "hadgi murat", "after ball", etc.

Other interesting Russian authors of 19th century are Lermontov, Gogol(especially "Dead souls" and "Overcoat"), Chekhov(plays amd short stories), Turgenev(especially "Fathers and sons"), Saltikov-Schedrin and Griboyedov.

Among 20th century writers my favorite is probably Bulgakov. To appreciate "Master and Margarita" you have to know a lot about Soviet life during 30ths and even then the translation is far from perfect(I've read it both in russian and english). But "M&M" is not the only Bulgakov's great book- "Heart of a dog" and "White guard" are among my favorites.

Pasternak "Doctor Zhivago", sholohov "Quiet Don", Grossman "Life and Destiny", Ribakov "Children of Arbat" and "Heavy sand", Voynovich's "Adventures of soldgier Chonkin", Strugazkiy's brothers "It's difficult to be a God" are books among 20th century russian literature that I'd especially recommend to try.

Sorry for the long message

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## Koa

> Dostoevsky- "Crime and Punishment", "Idiot", "Brothers Karamazov" and "Possessed(Devils)" are all masterpieces(especially the first three).


I adored "Devils". Possibly even more than Crime & Punishment (I haven't read the other two yet). It's part of the reason why I decided to study Russian..

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## ZATISHYA

Hello! Would you be so kind, accept me for yours Forum.

Dear, read Mikhail Bulgakov "The Master and Margarita". You shall unforgettable pleasure!


I think, that russian literature is thrilling, fascination, exquisite in all planet "Earth"...

I will with delight listen Your opinion.

Little bit of novel I attached.

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## Koa

You needed to look on the thread which was exactly under yours...
Or click here:

http://www.online-literature.com/for...ad.php?t=14658

Welcome to the forum anyway! I'll soon be in your country for a while, that's funny...
So do you speak mainly Russian or Ukrainian?  :Smile:

----------


## Virgil

> Hello! Would you be so kind, accept me for yours Forum.
> 
> Do you read Russian literature? My modest question.. :-)
> 
> 
> I think, that russian literature is thrilling, fascination, exquisite in all planet "Earth"...
> 
> I will with delight listen Your opinion.


Yes welcome Zatishya. I too hope you enjoy our forum. We do discuss Russian literature here, but probably not enough. Hopefully you can start a topic.

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## Boris239

"Devils" is a great book, but I enjoyed it a bit less than the other three. Koa, do u know that it wasn't studied in USSR?

----------


## beer good

> "Devils" is a great book, but I enjoyed it a bit less than the other three. Koa, do u know that it wasn't studied in USSR?


I'm not surprised, it's not exactly pro-socialism. I wonder, were all his other books encouraged in the USSR, or was he controversial? 

I wish someone would pay me to just read Dostoyevsky. Every time I read something of his I want to re-read all the others as well.

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## Boris239

> I'm not surprised, it's not exactly pro-socialism. I wonder, were all his other books encouraged in the USSR, or was he controversial?


The other three were studied if I'm not mistaken. I guess "Brothers Karamazov" a bit less than "Crime and Punishment" and "Idiot". And there are popular Soviet movies based on the books.

In "Idiot" one of the topics is that it's very sad that a man like Prince Myishkin(have no idea how to spell it, read the book in Russian) is considered an idiot. For soviet propaganda it's very convenient to portray the bourgeois society as the one that doesn't understand and accept REAL people

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## ZATISHYA

> So do you speak mainly Russian or Ukrainian?


Ukraine speak usually on Russian. On Ukrainian speak, probably, only patriots.



```
Welcome to the forum anyway! I'll soon be in your country for a while, that's funny...
```



```
Yes welcome Zatishya. I too hope you enjoy our forum.
```

Thank You! I was reading Forum long time, but write decided only today.

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## Boris239

Hi Zatishya!
I also enjoy "Master and Margarita" and other Bulgakov's books. 
I want to ask: at school have you mostly studied Russian authors or the emphasis was on the Ukrainian literature?
About the language: from what I know it depends on what part of Ukraine you are from. In Eastern Ukraine almost everybody speaks Russian, but in Western(like Lvov) most people speak Ukrainian. I have a friend from Dnepropetrovsk- she speaks Russian with me, but Ukrainian with her boyfriend who is from Western Ukraine

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## Koa

I think the whole work of Dostoevsky wasn't well considered, even if maybe not all of his books were banned...




> About the language: from what I know it depends on what part of Ukraine you are from. In Eastern Ukraine almost everybody speaks Russian, but in Western(like Lvov) most people speak Ukrainian. I have a friend from Dnepropetrovsk- she speaks Russian with me, but Ukrainian with her boyfriend who is from Western Ukraine


Yeah, I've been asking around for ages and especially now, and I always get that kind of answer  :Smile:

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## emily655321

Welcome, Zatishya!  :Wave: 

It's funny, my boyfriend was just telling me today about "Master and Margarita" and how much he liked it. He used it as an example of the work of two famously good translators, but now I forget their names. Oh, well.  :Biggrin:  Anyway, he has the book, so I should ask to borrow it from him.  :Nod:

----------


## Scheherazade

> Hello! Would you be so kind, accept me for yours Forum.
> 
> Dear, read Mikhail Bulgakov "The Master and Margarita". You shall unforgettable pleasure!


Welcome to the Forum, Zatisha!  :Smile: 

I read _Master and Margarita_ last year and I can easily say that it is one of the best books I have ever read.

Another discussion thread on it: http://www.online-literature.com/for...ster+margarita

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## SleepyWitch

ПРИВЕТ, КАК ДЕЛА?
Я ОЧЕНЬ РАДА ТЕБЯ УВИДЕТ

or something like that at any rate  :Smile: 
hi Zatishya, welcome to the forum

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## ZATISHYA

Ladies and gentlemen, thank You very much for greeting! ;-)

My favourite words of novel is "Manuscripts don't burn." ... but what, this words proudly sounding on Russian lang.. You should hear!




> I want to ask: at school have you mostly studied Russian authors or the emphasis was on the Ukrainian literature?


Yes, in school emphasis was on the Ukrainian literature, but in our literature too much struggle for independence of Ukraine. But Russian literature another thing...

----------


## Taliesin

> Pasternak "Doctor Zhivago", sholohov "Quiet Don", Grossman "Life and Destiny", Ribakov "Children of Arbat" and "Heavy sand", Voynovich's "Adventures of soldgier Chonkin",* Strugazkiy's brothers "It's difficult to be a God"* are books among 20th century russian literature that I'd especially recommend to try.
> 
> Sorry for the long message


*emphasis ours*

Finally we meet someone here who has read Strugatskis! 

Personally, we prefer the Maksim Kammerer trilogy, especially "Waves put out the Wind", since they are not _so_ bleakly pessimistic, but "Hard to be God" is definitely a very good work too.

----------


## Boris239

I like a lot of Strugatskiys' books. "Monday starts on Saturday" is very good, "A doomed city" is one of the best antiutopias I've read. "Hard to be God" is just my favorite. Unfortunately the old soviet movie was horrible.

----------


## Koa

> *emphasis mine*


Ehm... shouldn't this have been "emphasis ours"?  :Wink:

----------


## Taliesin

Drat!
We will now edit the post and say that this had never happened.

This never happened!

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## Koa

*forgets it ever happened*

----------


## zwag

Hey,
Have you ever read the Russian book with the peom called the poem of the grand inquisiter? I haven't read the book but I've read the exerpt from it on the web just recently where it says that a man kisses his brother Ivan sitently on the lips. I think this is a beautiful greeting if it can be done betwen men as nothing more than that, especially if the men are flesh and blood brothers. Does anyone know if men in the Russian Orthadox church greet like that in Russia? If so, is anyone here from Russia and do you go to that church and do that?

----------


## Mark F.

> I adored "Devils". Possibly even more than Crime & Punishment (I haven't read the other two yet). It's part of the reason why I decided to study Russian..


I just finished reading "The Possessed" yesterday, I enjoyed it as much as "The Idiot" but not as much as "Crime and Punishment". One you didn't mention is "Notes From the Underground" which is probably my favourite of Dostoevsky's books.

----------


## zwag

Hey,
Does anyone know aout the book called the Karamazov brothers?" I want to meet a man who has a brother he kisses on hte lips as a greeting like the nice man that does the kissing in that Russian literature book.

----------


## bazarov

> Hey,
> Have you ever read the Russian book with the peom called the poem of the grand inquisiter? I haven't read the book but I've read the exerpt from it on the web just recently where it says that a man kisses his brother Ivan sitently on the lips. I think this is a beautiful greeting if it can be done betwen men as nothing more than that, especially if the men are flesh and blood brothers. Does anyone know if men in the Russian Orthadox church greet like that in Russia? If so, is anyone here from Russia and do you go to that church and do that?


It's Brothers Karamazov from Fyodor Dostoevsky, and no, they don't do that regulary in Orthodox church. Why are you so interested about that???

----------


## Behemoth

Hello!! First post!! My favourite Russian work at present would have to be the Master and Margarita by Mikhail Bulgakov (hence the screen name  :Nod:  ) I think it's a brilliant work of satire and it defies the conventions of its time. I also love ANYTHING by Pushkin, specifically Evgeny Onegin and The Queen of Spades.

----------


## pleb17

I am looking for a good wartime romance novel. I particularly love reading about the Russian wars. Any suggestions would be appreciated

----------


## Idril

Well, there's always _War and Peace_ by Tolstoy which takes place during the war of 1812. Then you could go with _Quiet Flows the Don_ by Sholohkov which features, amoung other things, the romance of Gregor and Aksinia along with the Russian Revolution and the Civil War that followed. _Quiet Flows the Don_ is written from the Cossacks point of view and for the most part, they fought with the Whites, if you want to look at that struggle from the Red point of view, you could go with the Fedin Trilogy, _Early Joy_, _No Ordinary Summer_ and _The Bonfire_ which is also called, _The Conflagration_. There's also _Doctor Zhivago_ by Pasternak...again about the Revolution and the time afterwards. Those are the books that first spring to mind but I'm sure I'll come up with more after a bit.  :Smile:

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## Nick Rubashov

I find it unfortunate that it took me so long to get into Russian literature. The first novel I ever picked up from a Russian author was Darkness At Noon by Arthur Koestler a couple of months ago. I'm hooked. The book just knocked the breath out of me, it was so different than the American and English literature I was reading at the time. I can't wait to dive deeper into Russian lit. Wish I knew the language!

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## Yelena

I love Russian literature and I'm fortunate that I don't have to look for any translations. The originals are always better. I love the poetry of Zvetaeva and Akhmatova, and the prose by so many authors I cant even think of!

----------


## Eagleheart

You can try "How the steel was tempered" by Ostrovski...It features the The Great Patritioc war...If you are willing to shun the radiance of the "socialistic idealism" you may well detect the merits of the work, despite the colourful images of the now discredited communism.

----------


## Kenny_Shovel

I have quite a fondness for Russian literature. My review of Summer in Baden-Baden by Leonid Tsypkin can be found here:

http://www.online-literature.com/for...&postcount=327

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## Whifflingpin

"I find it unfortunate that it took me so long to get into Russian literature. The first novel I ever picked up from a Russian author was Darkness At Noon by Arthur Koestler a couple of months ago."

Great book indeed.

But Koestler was not Russian - He was of Hungarian-Jewish origin, and from the early 1940s he lived in England.

http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/koestler.htm

----------


## Boris239

I'd also recommend "Life and Destiny" by Vassily Grossman

----------


## Yelena

If anyone is interested in psychology and philosophy, you might want to read Valery Sinelnikov's works...He has his PhD and he's still practising. The books are truelly interesting because of his extraordinary views and interesting stories from his own practise.

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## rocket_pilot

Russian Lit has got to be the best i've ever read. It doesn't compare to English lit, although I enjoy it very much, and I also agree, it's ashame I can't read russian because I bet the books are much more interesting. (O_O)y

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## Sucdi

I'm reading Crime and Punishment now and I find it to be very interesting. But to understand it I have to go back and reread chapters because it feels like I'm missing some points or key events. All in all, I believe that Crime and Punishment is really good.

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## Elpis

It's very interesting to read all your "remarks" about Russian literature :Smile: 
The topic I'd like to discuss is "Master & Margarita". I'm re-reading it right now (in Russian).

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## Logos

Hello Elpis

Below is a link to a discussion of _Master and Margarita_,
I guess if you're not finished it though you might want to
be careful reading it in case of spoilers  :Smile: 

http://www.online-literature.com/for...ster+margarita

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## Elpis

Thanks, but it seems to be "of 2d freshness" :Smile: 
Anyway, I'll try it.

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## olichka

Russian literature is my favourite literature, as well. I think the reason a lot of people like it is because Russian writers describe their characters with so much sympathy, insight and love. There is a lot of warmth and humanity in most Russian works--particularly the 19th century ones---be it in the character development, in the description of scenes and nature, or the philosophizing which makes you feel as if you're reading about real life and living it in the moment that it's happening, rather than post-factum, "remembered" descriptions.

Tolstoy is a great master of this technique, and it's also interesting that while being very realistic in his descriptions and character development, he's also great at poeticizing the situations which imbibe them with more importance and meaning. That, I think, is also a characteristic of most Russian works---the simplest event or character is presented as very unique or special and, in turn, memorable.

This particular technique is what makes a big difference between works like "Anna Karenina" and "Madame Bovary". Although the intrigue and the situations are similar, the character of Anna Karenina creates the impression of a multi-dimensional, flesh-and-blood individual, whereas Emma Bovary lacks to a great degree individuality and uniqueness. The whole work of "Anna Kareinina" sparkles, despite the tragedy of its heroine, whereas " Madame Bovary" , although detailed and insightful, is a somewhat dull and pessimistic work.

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## Demona

A tough question: what do you think about Russian lit? 
I think it is great on the one hand and terrible on the other. Just as any other. There're its heroes and those who have failed. It's just a matter of taste. I enjoy reading in Russian once in a while, but I confess I read the old stuff...so, if anyone's willing to recommend works of contemporary authors--please do!

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## Moira

Among Russian classics i love Dostoievsky and Lermontov's poems. Dostoievsky is the best ever, one can almost say he is contemporary. I wolud be interested to read something modern though, so if someone has some recommandations that would be much appreciated.

Bye

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## .closed.

I can unreservedly say that 19th century is the finest for literature. However Tolstoy, Turgenev, Pushkin, Gogol, Dostoevsky, Chekhov, Goncharov et al excelled in creating timeless themes and characters. Russian novels and novellas of this period were social and political commentaries for people who wanted to express their ideas and thoughts.

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## olichka

> I can unreservedly say that 19th century is the finest for literature. However Tolstoy, Turgenev, Pushkin, Gogol, Dostoevsky, Chekhov, Goncharov et al excelled in creating timeless themes and characters. Russian novels and novellas of this period were social and political commentaries for people who wanted to express their ideas and thoughts.


 
I fully agree with you ! I think that Russian writers created a wonderful world of flesh-and-blood characters. They're so real that one can even speculate about their further growth once the book is finished. I take it from your user name that you really like Prince Andrei ( is that the Bolkonsky one ? ). Now, there's a character that captures the imagination !

What do you think his life would have been like if he didn't die at that particular place in the book ?

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## Robert Jordan

The Russians were obsessed with delving into human interaction and the psyche. They probably did it better than anyone. Just read a book like The Idiot by Dostoevsky or Ward.9 and other stories by Chekov or Fathers and Sons by Turgenev. Russian stories are bleak and very psychological. They are also some of the most well crafted as far as characterization and dialogue goes. This is just my opinion, but I really believe that Russia produced the best and most abundant authors of the 19th century.

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## Spiros

I believe that the Russian literature, specifically in Dostoyevskys work, has made unrivalled the effort to underline the reactions of human souls who are under pressure. The heroes are almost between options of morality or religious issues that make them feel unstable. That creates a state of isolation and misery for them and thanks to Russian authors we are able to see those people of the 19th century to strive for a better life under Tsar government.
Anyway, the point is what one likes to read and help him feel nice or live him in a soul-searching situation. 

Has anyone read Greek literature?

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## .closed.

Olichka

Prince Andrei Bolonsky was my favourite character from Tolstoy's masterpiece War and Peace. If Tolstoy did not kill off Andrei in a valiant but rather slow and painful death I think he would have lived an unhappy life, growing old and cynical. Andrei was searching for the meaning of life and found peace and maybe happiness in the last few days alive. 

A part from War and Peace, which still touches me deeply, is scene between the eccentric Prince and his daughter Maria Bolkonskaya. The Old Prince calls for his daughter when he is dieing to try and explain that he may have seemed like an overbearing father but it was because he loved her. Just thinking about this makes me emotional.




> I fully agree with you ! I think that Russian writers created a wonderful world of flesh-and-blood characters. They're so real that one can even speculate about their further growth once the book is finished. I take it from your user name that you really like Prince Andrei ( is that the Bolkonsky one ? ). Now, there's a character that captures the imagination !
> 
> What do you think his life would have been like if he didn't die at that particular place in the book ?


Olichka

Prince Andrei Bolonsky was my favourite character from Tolstoy's masterpiece War and Peace. If Tolstoy did not kill off Andrei in a valiant but rather slow and painful death I think he would have lived an unhappy life, growing old and cynical. Andrei was searching for the meaning of life and found peace and maybe happiness in the last few days alive. 

A part from War and Peace, which still touches me deeply, is scene between the eccentric Prince and his daughter Maria Bolkonskaya. The Old Prince calls for his daughter when he is dieing to try and explain that he may have seemed like an overbearing father but it was because he loved her. Just thinking about this makes me emotional.

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## rielgenius1688

If you are going to read Russian, you have to read The Brothers Karamazov by Dostoevsky. It is by far the best book I have ever read.

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## Simao

I have been checking these forums for quite some time now but I never really posted anything. I want some advise from people who are interested in reading Russina Litrature in the old days (Dostoevskey and Tolstoy's days) I have read War and Peace and Anna karanina for Tostloy and Crime and Punishment and The Brothers karmazov for Dostoevesky but I was wondering if there are any other famous novels/novelists from that era and I really would appreciate if anyone would suggest a few for me.
Thank you in advance  :Yawnb:

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## Etienne

There's already a topic on this but here's some...

Gogol - Petersburg Tales, Dead Souls, The Revizor
Gontcharov - Oblomov
Dostoevsky - The Idiot, Notes from the Underground, The Possessed, The Gambler
Tolstoy - Resurrection, The Death of Ivan Illitch, The Cossacks
Lermontov - A Hero of Our Time
Turgenev - Fathers and Sons
Chekhov - Short Stories and Plays
Pushkin - Eugene Onegin, Short Stories

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## bazarov

Adding:
Dostoevsky - Notes from Dead House, Injured and Insulted, Adolescent, The Double
Tolstoy - Childhood, Boyhood, Youth


Pushkin isn't from their time but Boris Godunov, Captain's daughter, Mozart and Salieri are also some of his famous works.

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## Nico87

This thread can probably be of some help; 

http://www.online-literature.com/for...ad.php?t=29370

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## Etienne

Pushkin (and Lermontov as well) is still 19th century, and he didn't mention any specific generation.

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## grace86

Thanks for starting the thread, and thanks Nico for adding the link. Reminding me of my love for Russian literature

I very highly recommend Crime and Punishment. I think it actually took me a whole summer to get through, which is unusual, but it is so worth it. At times it is a little depressing, but after completing it and looking at the novel as a whole, it is so wonderful to have read it.

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## Simao

Thanks guys for the suggestions ^^ and the link. I am trying right now to find translations for the novels mentioned especially Dead Souls. I hope I can find any here.




> I very highly recommend Crime and Punishment. I think it actually took me a whole summer to get through, which is unusual, but it is so worth it. At times it is a little depressing, but after completing it and looking at the novel as a whole, it is so wonderful to have read it.


I read Crime and Punishment already and it was really good and intense at some points and yeah it was kindda depressing but that's how I like them lol.

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## bazarov

> I want some advise from people who are interested in reading Russina Litrature in the old days *(Dostoevskey and Tolstoy's days)*


He did specify, a little bit.

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## Nico87

Simao, if you like hardcovers, I suggest you get those russian books you want from Everyman's Library. They never seem to fail with their translations. 

Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky has translated most of the classic russian books published by Everyman's Library, _Dead Souls_ too.

You can find most of Everyman's Library's books on www.amazon.co.uk and www.amazon.com for a decent price.

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## mansoor alam

hi simao, i am from pakistan.i appreciate your in interest in tolstoy and dostovesky.keeping in mind your interest i would advise you a short novel of tolstoy.it is none than ''the death of ivan illych''.though i have not read tolstoy's other novels,but i till you that after reading the above novel i went berserk. i remember i wrote this after reading it for the first time '' THERE IS NO NEED TO READ OTHER NOVELS''

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## Simao

I am looking for arabic translations everywhere for some of Dostoevsky's work but can't find any except the ones I already read  :Flare:  .. Do they by any chance sell books translated to other languages in Amazon or ebay etc? I only saw english transaltions but if anyone saw or bought please tell me. 
Thank you.

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## Nico87

I'm afraid the books on amazon are in English language only.

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## Etienne

> though i have not read tolstoy's other novels,but i till you that after reading the above novel i went berserk. i remember i wrote this after reading it for the first time '' THERE IS NO NEED TO READ OTHER NOVELS''


"There is no need to read other novels"... what the hell... even after admitting yourself that you haven't read any other by Tolstoy. I'd add this in a list of ridiculous quotes if I held one..

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## Nico87

Haha, well said, Etienne!

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## JBI

Correction, Pushkin and Lermontov are 19th century.

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## Etienne

> Correction, Pushkin and Lermontov are 19th century.


Yes sorry, that's what I meant, it's corrected.

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## mS_?

Nikolai Gogol's _Dead Souls_ is one of the better books I've read.

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## B-Mental

> "There is no need to read other novels"... what the hell... even after admitting yourself that you haven't read any other by Tolstoy. I'd add this in a list of ridiculous quotes if I held one..


Mansoor was merely stating that the book was masterfully written. The Death of Ivan Illych is an incredible book and you either get it or you don't. I believe that Mansoor gets it. Nothing ridiculous about the quote, that book is overwhelming.

Of course I'll recommend it to you, you'll read it, and then you'll complain because you don't get it, and I'll be to blame. Thats when my signature comes in handy.

----------


## Simao

I guess I could try reading an english version but I was wondering if they have the old english language like saying for example the "thou" "art" words because I don't think I'll get that lol.

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## bazarov

> Correction, Pushkin and Lermontov are 19th century.


But they are not realism, they are romantism.

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## Etienne

> Of course I'll recommend it to you, you'll read it, and then you'll complain because you don't get it, and I'll be to blame. Thats when my signature comes in handy.


But I have read it and I loved it.

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## Nico87

> I guess I could try reading an english version but I was wondering if they have the old english language like saying for example the "thou" "art" words because I don't think I'll get that lol.


Most of the books are translated into what we call modern english, e.g "you are" instead of "thou art".

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## Dori

Can anyone recommend some Russian Literature? My current collection is comprised of the following:

*Chekhov* ~ Selected Stories
*Dostoevsky* ~ The Idiot ~ Crime and Punishment ~ The Brothers Karamazov ~ The Double ~ Notes from Underground ~ The House of the Dead ~ The Meek One ~ Poor Folk ~ White Nights
*Tolstoy* ~ Anna Karenina ~ War and Peace ~ The Death of Ivan Ilych 
*Boris Pasternak* ~ Dr. Zhivago

My collection could probably use some Pushkin and Gogol, but what else should I add?\

P.S.: Also, if you have a translation preference, please mention it.

----------


## bazarov

Dostoevsky - The Possessed (must have), The Gambler
Pushkin - Eugene Onegin (must have)
Turgenev - Fathers and Sons
Bulgakov- Master and Margarita
Gogol - Dead Souls, The Cloak
Nabokov (maybe he is considered as an American writer) - Lolita, Ada
Lermontov - The Hero of Our Times

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## Dori

I forgot to mention I had Fathers and Sons by Turgenev. Thanks for the other recommendations.

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## Idril

I would add Mikhail Sholokhov's _Quiet Flows the Don_ and Gogol's _Taras Bulba_ to Baz's list and then I think you'd be good for awhile.  :Wink:

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## Etienne

Gontcharov's Oblomov is a must as well.

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## Old Crow

> Can anyone recommend some Russian Literature? My current collection is comprised of the following:
> 
> *Chekhov* ~ Selected Stories
> *Dostoevsky* ~ The Idiot ~ Crime and Punishment ~ The Brothers Karamazov ~ The Double ~ Notes from Underground ~ The House of the Dead ~ The Meek One ~ Poor Folk ~ White Nights
> *Tolstoy* ~ Anna Karenina ~ War and Peace ~ The Death of Ivan Ilych 
> *Boris Pasternak* ~ Dr. Zhivago
> 
> My collection could probably use some Pushkin and Gogol, but what else should I add?\
> 
> P.S.: Also, if you have a translation preference, please mention it.


The short stories of Isaac Babel. Cannot reccomend these enough.

Some of the major works of Solzhenytsin (I always have trouble spelling his name.): One day in the life of Ivan Denisovich is probably his most digestable work, but personally, I find some of his speeches on Western culture (after he moved to America) more interesting.

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## Dori

Thanks Idril, Etienne, and Old Crow for your suggestions. I'll be on the look out for them  :Smile:  .

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## MGegishov

I think you have a wonderful collection so far. I would certainly add Lermontov's A Hero of Our Time and possibly The Romance of Leonardo de Vinci by Merejkowski. There is also Chandler's Russian Short Stories. And, of course, one mustn't forget, although you can if you like, Dr. Zhavago.

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## Etienne

> I think you have a wonderful collection so far. I would certainly add Lermontov's A Hero of Our Time and possibly The Romance of Leonardo de Vinci by Merejkowski. There is also Chandler's Russian Short Stories. And, of course, one mustn't forget, although you can if you like, Dr. Zhavago.


I started reading The Birth of Gods (or Tuthakanmun) by Merejkovsky and I don't think it's that great. It's not bad by any stretch of imagination, but I was expecting something better. Petersburg by Biely is supposed, according to Nabokov, to be be great, I'm still on the look for it as it's really hard to get (in french, in english it's easier) and the only edition of it is expensive (it's not pocket format) but I'm going to order it this week.

The russian symbolists are quite hard to get our hands on in the west, but I'm trying to.

----------


## ex ponto

> Maybe the climate affects the writing
> 
> actualy, in Jakutsk they got - 70 deegrees celsius.


Well, that's just not possible.

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## Dori

> Has anyone read " Doctor Zjivago" ?


I'm not sure if you still visit this forum, Pantelej, but I am currently reading this book. 




> There's one thing about many storys written by russians: many of them are full of french quotes. And if you can't speak french you'll have to check them up in the end 
> of the books, if there is such thing as a index of french quotes used in the book at all.


Personally, I like having the French phrases not translated for me. It's the one part of the book I can read in the original.  :Tongue: 




> I started reading The Birth of Gods (or Tuthakanmun) by Merejkovsky and I don't think it's that great. It's not bad by any stretch of imagination, but I was expecting something better. Petersburg by Biely is supposed, according to Nabokov, to be be great, I'm still on the look for it as it's really hard to get (in french, in english it's easier) and the only edition of it is expensive (it's not pocket format) but I'm going to order it this week.
> 
> The russian symbolists are quite hard to get our hands on in the west, but I'm trying to.


Forgive my ignorance, but who exactly are the "Russian symbolists"?

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## bazarov

> Well, that's just not possible.


It is.

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## Etienne

> Forgive my ignorance, but who exactly are the "Russian symbolists"?


Symbolism is an artistic movement, in France such poets as Baudelaire or Mallarm&#233; were symbolists, but in Russia, the movement became strong in the early 20th century with writers such as Sologlub, Merejkovsky, Blok, Bely, etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Symbolism




> It is.


Indeed, the lowest temperature recorded is -89C in Antarctic. So -70 is very possible.

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## Dorian Gray

I'll be reading War and Peace this year. It's been gathering dust in my house so far but I will persevere!

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## *Classic*Charm*

Perfect timing for this thread! I've decided to make 2008 the year of the Russian authors for myself. I've The Master and Margarita. So far, I'm loving it but I'm not far in as I've just started school again.

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## Kafka's Crow

When I started reading, one of the earliest books that my father bought me was 'Russian Folk Tales', wonderful, wonderful book. It was printed in Moscow by the Publishing House for Foreign Languages. Absolutely fascinating stuff, The Bear and the Ploughman, Nakita the Tanner, Elia of Mooram, the dragons, the girl who rode a hare wearing a fishing net. Everything is etched on my brain. I haven't even seen the book in almost three decades. Then I moved on to 'grown up' Russian books in my Dad's library, starting with 'A Hero of Our Time' I was hardly 10 years old then. 'Taras Bulba' and 'Hadji Murad' followed. Then there was a long gap and I went back to Russian Literature in my late teens starting with no other book than the greatest, the most rewarding novel ever, 'The Brothers Karamazov' followed by all other Dostoevskian novels and moved on to 'War and Peace', 'Anna Karenina', 'Redemption', 'The Death of Ivan Illyich'. Then I read 'Fathers and Sons' and short stories by Turgenev, Read 'Overcoat', 'Doctor Zhivago', started reading 'And Quiet Flows the Dawn' but at that time things happened and I had to give up everything. Have been out of touch with the good old Russian literature for over a decade now and would love to go back. Somebody mentioned the French phrases in these books, well the memories of these lines in A Hero of Our Time led me to eventually learn the French language and I consider this a result of inspiration from the Russian novels, specially Lermontov's book. I would love to go back to these books. I have copies of 'The Master and the Margarita' and 'The Gulag Archipelago' waiting to be read and I think this is where I should make my comeback.

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## bazarov

> started reading 'And Quiet Flows the Dawn'


It's Don, not Dawn (Dawn is something else on English :Smile: ). Impressive list, really!  :Thumbs Up:

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## Kafka's Crow

> It's Don, not Dawn (Dawn is something else on English). Impressive list, really!


Thanks for the correction. It's been 12 years since I last saw my beloved four volume set of Sholokhov's masterpiece. It was a Soviet publication, published by the excellent Foreign Language Publishing House in Moscow. It had pictures and a very sturdy binding. They produced such excellent books. You could break somebody's head with those books, the binding used to be so strong.

----------


## hellsapoppin

I mentioned the following link on another thread but it is worth repeating:

http://www.sovlit.com/


This contains a great many examples of some of the very best literature created during Soviet times. Much of it features anti-Soviet writings.

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## JoanS

Since i have read the crime and punishment, i have started dedicating my life to the literature. Above all the Dostoievki's fiction has something magical..

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## Tersely

So far for me it has been Tolstoy's Anna Karenina. I read it before Oprah made it cool. Thats about as far as I've gotten with Russian Literature so I guess I can't say quite yet whether I find it good or not. A.K. was good though.

----------


## ex ponto

> Symbolism is an artistic movement, in France such poets as Baudelaire or Mallarmé were symbolists, but in Russia, the movement became strong in the early 20th century with writers such as Sologlub, Merejkovsky, Blok, Bely, etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Symbolism
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the lowest temperature recorded is -89C in Antarctic. So -70 is very possible.


Maybe I hastened to reply to that statement, but at the time I heard Russians on TV complaining about temperatures which in Siberia riched -55, so -70 seemed preety imposible to me.
Wikipedia mentiones -67, Britannica -68 as the lowest, so if the temperature was -70, it was rather extreme and disastrous.

----------


## Idril

> I mentioned the following link on another thread but it is worth repeating:
> 
> http://www.sovlit.com/
> 
> 
> This contains a great many examples of some of the very best literature created during Soviet times. Much of it features anti-Soviet writings.


That is a great site! I've really gotten into Soviet Lit and am always looking for new authors and new books so I've bookmarked that page and then I can refer to it when I do my book buying. Right now I'm reading _The Foundation Pit_ by Andrey Platonov.

And Kafka's Crow, I love the _Quiet Flows the Don_ series. I too have read all four volumes and count them among my favorites. I don't have the wonderful editions you have but they are cherished tomes nonetheless.

----------


## Simao

> That is a great site! I've really gotten into Soviet Lit and am always looking for new authors and new books so I've bookmarked that page and then I can refer to it when I do my book buying. Right now I'm reading _The Foundation Pit_ by Andrey Platonov.
> 
> And Kafka's Crow, I love the _Quiet Flows the Don_ series. I too have read all four volumes and count them among my favorites. I don't have the wonderful editions you have but they are cherished tomes nonetheless.


I have read few pages of Quite Flows the Don but for someone reason it didn't click with me. For a Dostoyevsky lover and Russian literature in general, do you think that it is worth it to read it? I mean it is a long read after all and a huge commitment lol. Does it have arguments between characters about God, politics and other stuff? I really like novels with a touch of philoshpy here and there and if this one has that then I'll probably read it as well.

----------


## Etienne

And Quiet Flows the Don, is more an attempt to create a WW1 War and peace. It's not even close to doing it, however it's still very good. There is two part, the second is The Don Flows Home to the Sea and while I don't think it's as good as the first, it's still quite good. Don't worry about it being very didactic, it's not. It's also not very much psychological

----------


## Idril

> I have read few pages of Quite Flows the Don but for someone reason it didn't click with me. For a Dostoyevsky lover and Russian literature in general, do you think that it is worth it to read it? I mean it is a long read after all and a huge commitment lol. Does it have arguments between characters about God, politics and other stuff? I really like novels with a touch of philoshpy here and there and if this one has that then I'll probably read it as well.


It's certainly not Dostoevsky but that doesn't mean it's not worthwhile. I do think it's an important book for a fan of Russian Literature to read because of the historical and societal aspect of it. A couple things that struck me about this book, first of all is the almost sensual language of Sholokhov. I'm not talking about sensual as in sexual, just an incredible appreciation of the land of the Don and the culture of the Cossacks. His descriptions are so evocative, along with seeing the scenes, you can almost smell and feel them. The other thing I really liked about it was the balance, the Reds don't come off that well and neither to the Whites. Both sides have their victories and defeats both in terms of war and morality. And Gregor is a wonderfully complex character. I really think it's worth persevering.

And there are actually 2 more books past _The Don Flows Home To The Sea_; _Seeds of Tomorrow_ and _Harvest on the Don_. The last two are about the collectivization of the farms after the Civil War and they aren't as good but still culturally and historically interesting.

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## eyemaker

> I wish I could read Russian lit in _Russian_ instead of relying on translations


Russian Literature is indeed good! I have read some of those Russian novels and I find it interesting! Logos right... 
However beautiful a translation is, it can never capture the original beauty of a manuscript. There is no translation even more than an approximation of the original; but the sound of the original is completely lost and only the sense is preserved. :Wink:  

I wish also I could read Russian stuffs too! :Biggrin:  
But I, myself love to read different Russian novels it's great! 

Good Day everyone!!! :Biggrin:   :Biggrin:   :Biggrin:   :Biggrin:

----------


## Logos

eyemaker, I posted just the other day regarding translations in this topic:
http://www.online-literature.com/for...ad.php?t=31955

I think I will re-post it here  :Smile: 

--

By the efforts of *Constance Clara Garnett* (1861–1946) readers in North America, Europe, etc. were _finally_ able to access Russian literature. She was educated at Cambridge, obtained first class, and qualified for a BA; but as was the Victorian more at the time regarding women not awarded a degree.

She was a distinguished librarian, taught, and was friends with many literary types of the day including Y. B. Yeats, D. H. Lawrence, and Joseph Conrad. She was also friends with Russian journalist Felix Volkhovsky, in exile in England at the time. He was the one who taught her Russian and assisted her in her first translations. She also met many other Russian revolutionary figures and writers and travelled to Russia a few times. 

Her first translations appeared in 1894. She also translated Tolstoy, Goncharov, Chekhov, Gogol, Turgenev, Rudin etc. It was her work on Dostoyevsky, published first in 1912, that brought her much acclaim.

From the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography:

http://www.oxforddnb.com/

"_Constance Garnett's requirements for a good translation were sympathy for the author and a love of words and their meanings. She herself had faults: her dialogues are sometimes stiff; her transliteration of Russian names is illogical and inconsistent; she makes many errors. But the speed at which she worked, which was partly to blame for these, allowed her to maintain stylistic unity. Her descriptive passages are often exquisitely done and she eschews linguistic fads or slang. Conrad, for whom Turgenev was Constance Garnett, compared her to a great musician interpreting a great composer. For Katherine Mansfield, Constance Garnett transformed the lives of younger authors by revealing a new world. Without her translations, H. E. Bates believed, modern English literature itself could not have been what it is_ (Bates, 120)."

--

So, yes, her works have been heavily criticised *since*, but she was a remarkable figure in her devotion to Russian culture and literature, and the first person to translate many works we now have access to today--many of which are still the English standard--most still in print.

--

----------


## Latin

> I do think it's an important book for a fan of Russian Literature to read because of the historical and societal aspect of it.


Of course...Tastes differ...But....what I could tell...When The foreign reader "gets acquainted" with Russian literature, especially, 20 centuries...Sometimes it's hard to accept differing in many respects point of view on succession of events, which were interpreted in The western countries a little in another way..?...What do you think of it?.. :Wink:

----------


## Idril

> Of course...Tastes differ...But....what I could tell...When The foreign reader "gets acquainted" with Russian literature, especially, 20 centuries...Sometimes it's hard to accept differing in many respects point of view on succession of events, which were interpreted in The western countries a little in another way..?...What do you think of it?..


I think that's exactly why it's a good thing to read those accounts, you can't trust the western media to get anything right  :Wink:  , especially when it comes to anything Soviet. As a child of the Cold War, I find it fascinating to see the other side, to get a fuller more balanced picture of events and to be able to see past Stalin and the Red Guard to the average Russian citizen of that time and what their experiences were.

----------


## Latin

> As a child of the Cold War, I find it fascinating to see the other side, to get a fuller more balanced picture of events and to be able to see past Stalin and the Red Guard to the average Russian citizen of that time and what their experiences were.


You at once have understood to what I had a conversation.... :Wink:  
Other mentality... :Wink:  
From this point of view the book undoubtedly is of interest..."The Gulag Archipelago" which was written by Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn... :Thumbs Up: ... I have started to read it at school, but could not promote further 200 pages...It has appeared too hard for me... :Bawling:  
It is too much emotions,...

----------


## Dori

> eyemaker, I posted just the other day regarding translations in this topic:
> http://www.online-literature.com/for...ad.php?t=31955
> 
> I think I will re-post it here 
> 
> --
> 
> By the efforts of *Constance Clara Garnett* (18611946) readers in North America, Europe, etc. were _finally_ able to access Russian literature. She was educated at Cambridge, obtained first class, and qualified for a BA; but as was the Victorian more at the time regarding women not awarded a degree.
> 
> ...


Thanks, *Logos*, for posting this information. Personally, I like Constance Garnett as a translator.  :Smile:

----------


## Idril

> From this point of view the book undoubtedly is of interest..."The Gulag Archipelago" which was written by Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn...... I have started to read it at school, but could not promote further 200 pages...It has appeared too hard for me... 
> It is too much emotions,...


I have read that book and it is very hard to read, very depressing. I certainly knew Stalin was a bad guy but I had no idea of the depth of the devastation. I would sometimes have to take breaks because it would become a little too overwhelming but I did eventually finish it.

----------


## Zeruiah

> Thanks, *Logos*, for posting this information. Personally, I like Constance Garnett as a translator.


I hate to go off topic, but I'd like to ask you a question, Dori, being that you're a Hugoist and all. How do you feel about Charles E. Wilbour's translation of Les Miserables? I hear French is easily translated into English so I suspect not much meaning is lost from the original, but I've seen a lot of criticism on Wilbour (without any evidence to back these claims up, however). What do you think?

----------


## Dori

> I hate to go off topic, but I'd like to ask you a question, Dori, being that you're a Hugoist and all. How do you feel about Charles E. Wilbour's translation of Les Miserables? I hear French is easily translated into English so I suspect not much meaning is lost from the original, but I've seen a lot of criticism on Wilbour (without any evidence to back these claims up, however). What do you think?


I like the Wilbur translation, although I'm hardly an expert on translations.  :Thumbs Up:

----------


## Latin

> There's one thing about many storys written by russians: many of them are full of french quotes.


It concerns to the Russian literature of times of Ekaterina Great and further....
Ekaterina corresponded in French with Diderot and other figures of The Age of Enlightenment...After war of 1812 " Russian have seen Paris " and have closely adjoined to the French culture...
Certainly, it concerned *basically nobility*..To children employed the French governesses... And, when they grew - they knew language in perfection (Pushkin - a good example))...so the majority of readable books, were in French and ...was considered by itself understood in a society to quote in French..
Ideas of the French revolution also have received the development in movement of Decembrists (Here again Pushkin too has distinguished))
In the end 19 - the beginnings of 20 centuries the situation has changed...
Russia has familiarized with Marx's ideas and Engels... During the Soviet authority - already German language was studied at schools...

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## thelastmelon

Since Russia is a part of Euroasia (both Europe and Asia) which of the contintents would Russia be considered as? I'm doing this project this year to read books by authors from every continent, and I have some russian writers on my to-read-list, but under what continent should they be placed?

And, what are the top three Russian writers in your opinion?

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## Idril

> Since Russia is a part of Euroasia (both Europe and Asia) which of the contintents would Russia be considered as? I'm doing this project this year to read books by authors from every continent, and I have some russian writers on my to-read-list, but under what continent should they be placed?
> 
> And, what are the top three Russian writers in your opinion?


Those are darn good questions. I don't know what the official word is on what continent Russia is on but in my own mind, I use the Ural mountains to divide the country, to the west of the Urals, I consider that European, to the east, Asia.

And as for the 3 top Russian authors...that's really tough, there are so many. I guess it would depend on what era you want to go with, 19th century, Soviet, post Soviet. Maybe you would want to pick one author from each, I don't know. As for my opinion, for 19th Century, I would go with the 3 giants, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy and Turgenev...although that would leave out Pushkin and Gogol and that's almost blasphemous. For Soviet writers, I would go with Bulgakov, Solzhenitsyn, Sholokov...but then there's also Pasternak and Zamyatin, again, important writers it seems wrong to forget. Post Soviet is an era I haven't explored all that much yet, Pelevin is probably the author I've read the most of so that's really all I have for that era. I don't think I helped you at all but at least there are a few names to pick from.  :FRlol:

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## thelastmelon

> And as for the 3 top Russian authors...that's really tough, there are so many. I guess it would depend on what era you want to go with, 19th century, Soviet, post Soviet. Maybe you would want to pick one author from each, I don't know. As for my opinion, for 19th Century, I would go with the 3 giants, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy and Turgenev...although that would leave out Pushkin and Gogol and that's almost blasphemous. For Soviet writers, I would go with Bulgakov, Solzhenitsyn, Sholokov...but then there's also Pasternak and Zamyatin, again, important writers it seems wrong to forget. Post Soviet is an era I haven't explored all that much yet, Pelevin is probably the author I've read the most of so that's really all I have for that era. I don't think I helped you at all but at least there are a few names to pick from.


Haha, thanks for all the names!  :Smile:  
I have plans to read _The Master and Margarita_ by Mikhail Bulgakov and _Anna Karenina_ by Leo Tolstoy. I've heard a lot of good things about them, but have never gotten around to actually read these books.

Are there any famous or good Russian female authors that anyone knows of? I can only think of male authors.

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## Idril

> Are there any famous or good Russian female authors that anyone knows of? I can only think of male authors.


The only female Russian author I've read is Olga Grushin and while she was born and raised in Russia, she's a US citizen now so I don't know if she even counts. The book I read, _The Dream Life of Sukhanov_ takes place in Russia so that's at least something but really, I'm afraid I can't help you much with that.  :Frown:  

And the books you've pick so far are good choices.  :Thumbs Up:

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## Boris239

> Haha, thanks for all the names!  
> I have plans to read _The Master and Margarita_ by Mikhail Bulgakov and _Anna Karenina_ by Leo Tolstoy. I've heard a lot of good things about them, but have never gotten around to actually read these books.
> 
> Are there any famous or good Russian female authors that anyone knows of? I can only think of male authors.


Well there are Marina Tsvetaeva and Anna Akhmatova. They are poets though.

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## hellsapoppin

re www.sovlit.com

``That is a great site! I've really gotten into Soviet Lit and am always looking for new authors and new books so I've bookmarked that page and then I can refer to it when I do my book buying.``


I am thrilled to read your reply. Indeed, this is one of the greatest sites in the Internet.

While many people falsely attribute the decline of the Soviets to the West, it should always be noted that it erupted from within. There were many daring people who contributed to this and Tvardovsky is the one who should be greatly credited for starting it. While his name is largely unknown in the West, those of us who have always oppose Sovietism credit him more than anyone else for exposing the truth that led to its ultimate defeat.

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## superunknown

Russian literature is amazing. It was by a million miles the country with the best literary output during the 19th century, but of course there are many Russian lit classics from the 20th century. As someone much earlier said, I'm also studying Russian at university mainly because of its literature. I'm not at the level to start reading it in Russian yet, but hopefully within 2 years or so I will be. I've read:

Pushkin - Eugene Onegin
Dostoevsky - Crime and Punishment, The Brothers Karamazov
Tolstoy - The Death of Ivan Ilyich, War and Peace
Gogol - Collected Short Stories (Pevear & Volokhonsky)
Mikhail Bulgakov - The Heart of a Dog, The Master and Margarita

Loved every one of them.

I've yet to read any Pasternak, Sholokhov, Chekhov, Turgenev, Lermontov, Zamyatin, Gorky, Solzhenitsin, or Akhmatova.

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## Etienne

...and Bely.

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## cyura

(I kept posting this in the wrong place, but I've found you now...)
Here are some Russian historical novels which are hard to put down… 

Jack Vosmerkin – The American (Джек Восьмеркин - Американец) and The Land of the Sun (Государство Солнца), by the late author Nikolai Grigorevich Smirnov (1890-1933). These books are ideal due to their simple to follow styles, yet appealing, well-developed plots. Smirnov allows the reader to re-live Russia’s Soviet era in Jack Vosmerkin, as well as the time of the tsars in Land of the Sun. 

Some very brief summaries, but be sure to look at the free samples for more details:

JACK VOSMERKIN - THE AMERICAN is an epic tale about a Russian boy who travels around the globe by accident during the early Soviet years, returning to Russia to combine Russian and Western culture in a remarkable, never predictable journey.

THE LAND OF THE SUN lets the reader relive life in exile, starting in Kamchatka, during the age of Imperialism, and then takes its narrator, a Russian youth, far beyond Russia's borders, where he and his fellow countrymen must adapt to a life they'd never imagined, but never losing their Russian spirit.

See more information and free samples at:


I look forward to your comments about these books!

All the best,
Clay Juracsik

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## blazeofglory

Reading Russian books is really a matter of joy and they are illuminating immensely. As a matter of fact I like most of Russian writers and all are Russian short stories which are immensely rich in everything. 

Tolstoy is really marvellous and I have always enjoyed reading his books from War and Peace to all his short stories. 

Russian literature has been my all time favorite and I never got tired of reading.

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## mangueken

Count me in the group of those who love Russian Lit. 
You can't go wrong with the classic masters, Pushkin, Chekov, Tolstoy and Dostoevsky. Almost every year I pick one of the novels of Tolstoy or Dostoevsky and put it on top of my "to read" stack. I always find something new with each reading. I haven't read that much by the contemporary Russian writers but some of the posts have piqued my curiosity about them. I'll be heading to the book store soon to see what I can find.

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## Idril

> While many people falsely attribute the decline of the Soviets to the West, it should always be noted that it erupted from within. There were many daring people who contributed to this and Tvardovsky is the one who should be greatly credited for starting it. While his name is largely unknown in the West, those of us who have always oppose Sovietism credit him more than anyone else for exposing the truth that led to its ultimate defeat.


I read a book called _The Anti-Soviet Soviet Union_ by Vladimir Voinovich and he mentioned Tvardovsky a few times. I haven't read any of his works yet but I am interested. I had a look on amazon and they don't have a lot of books by him but I was able to add one to my wish list along with a book or two by Ivan Bunin, he's another Soviet author I've heard a lot about but never read.

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## blazeofglory

Russian literature in point of fact great sources and Russian literature others in many respects. For instance I always admire Tolstoy for his famous book war and peace, for this is really a beautiful novel, and I like this book in all respect. Tolstoy has reached a height in literature few others have reached. He was really a serious man, and he has lived his life by setting an example. We know he was from a very prosperous family background, but he has attuned himself to servitude, and he had to suffer a lot owing to his dispute or clash with his family members, for he was living by the ideal they did not want at all.

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## Melmoth

I just read _Crime and Punishment_ and I was just 'grabbed' by it!!
I strongly recommend it... 

Those of you who know Dostoyevski... which of his books should I read next???

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## Kafka's Crow

> I just read _Crime and Punishment_ and I was just 'grabbed' by it!!
> I strongly recommend it... 
> 
> Those of you who know Dostoyevski... which of his books should I read next???


Just to whet your appetite a bit read _Notes from the Underground._ It is an excellent little book. Read it in one sitting and then go for the big ones. _The Idiot_ is far better than _Crime and Punishment_ but it moves slowly. A very slow but extremely rewarding book. Then you can move on to the Dady of them all, _The Brothers Karamazov._ Only _War and Peace_ comes anywhere near it. _Karamazov_ is a huge book but if you think _Crime and Punishment_ is good, _Karamazov_ would simply sweep you off your feet. Go for it, read Dostoevsky. You will never regret investing time in this one writer.

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## jhonerliz

Hi! I'm a newly English teacher here in Philippines and to be honest I discussed LAMENT by Anton Chekhov. I appreciated his short story and it also reflects to the Filipino values here so I can say that Russian literature is great.... I will also read other Russian lits.....  :Smile:

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## Idril

> I just read _Crime and Punishment_ and I was just 'grabbed' by it!!
> I strongly recommend it... 
> 
> Those of you who know Dostoyevski... which of his books should I read next???


And don't forget _The Possessed_...or _Devils_...or _Demons_, apparently the name had several translations.  :Wink:  It ranks right up there as one of my favorite Dostoevsky books along with _Crime and Punishment_.

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## qspeechc

What about lesser known works of Dostoevsky like "The Gambler"? Anyone read his lesser works? By 'lesser' I mean less well known of course.

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## Idril

I've read several of his short stories and novellas, _The Gambler_ being one of them and it's brilliant.

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## Red-Headed

I think it is best to read Dostoyevsky in more modern translations. The best version of 'Crime & Punishment' in my opinion is David McDuff's.

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## *Classic*Charm*

I find it really difficult to get through the Russians, There have been a few that I've started and not finished. It's not that I'm not interested, as I'm reading for my own pleasure, and it's not that I don't appreciate the work because I will never ever consider myself well-read until I have thoroughly covered the Russians. Any idea why this could be?

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## Kafka's Crow

> I find it really difficult to get through the Russians, There have been a few that I've started and not finished. It's not that I'm not interested, as I'm reading for my own pleasure, and it's not that I don't appreciate the work because I will never ever consider myself well-read until I have thoroughly covered the Russians. Any idea why this could be?


My case is totally different. I have never failed to finish a Russian novel. I can not get through an English novel to save my life. I read some during the course of my student years but could never finish anything for pleasure. I can read American novels, even contemporary English writing but can't read those 'classics' (Dickens, Hardy, the Brontes etc). Start with Lermontov's _A Hero of Our Time_ and work your way up towards Dostoevsky and Tolstoy via Turgenev and Gogol reading short stories by Pushkin and Chekov's plays on your way when you feel tired of reading longer works. 

I am planning to re-read Dostoevsky in near future.

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## Remarkable

Oh,I'm reading the second volume of "War and Peace" right now and I am absolutely loving it...I didn't expect this to happen,since the first half of the first book is not quite attractive,but now I am amazed...Absolutely!

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## Bitterfly

> I find it really difficult to get through the Russians, There have been a few that I've started and not finished. It's not that I'm not interested, as I'm reading for my own pleasure, and it's not that I don't appreciate the work because I will never ever consider myself well-read until I have thoroughly covered the Russians. Any idea why this could be?


They're often difficult, as you said, and I think that's why!! :Smile: 
There are quite a few I didn't finish as well (The Idiot, for instance, or The Brothers Karamazov - but I read Crime and Punishment through to the end, as well as shorter ones by Dostoievsky; and I finished all of Solyenitzin's). I always tell myself I'll have time to take them up again one day, and that maybe I wasn't ready for them at the time...

Have you ever tried the shorter Russian novels? Lermontov, Pushkin, a few of Tolstoi (The Cossacks, The Kreutzer Sonata) and of Dostoievsky (Notes from the Underground...), Gogol (the St Petursberg's stories)... There are lots of those, and I sometimes have the impression they tend to be forgotten, shadowed as they are by the more famous longer works.

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## wilbur lim

Russian literature is the most prominent subject,there are a eclectic of these books being translated.I have hitherto read Russian literature books and they make the biggest portion of my stupendous library.

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## andave_ya

> Russian literature is the most prominent subject,there are a eclectic of these books being translated.I have hitherto read Russian literature books and they make the biggest portion of my stupendous library.


hey wilbur, i just wanted to say that eventually I hope Russian Lit makes a large part of my library too. May I ask who is your favorite Russian author? Having begun reading Russian Literature less than a year ago, I am not very well-versed in it, but Dostoevsky is to me far more interesting than Tolstoy.

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## *Classic*Charm*

> They're often difficult, as you said, and I think that's why!!
> There are quite a few I didn't finish as well (The Idiot, for instance, or The Brothers Karamazov - but I read Crime and Punishment through to the end, as well as shorter ones by Dostoievsky; and I finished all of Solyenitzin's). I always tell myself I'll have time to take them up again one day, and that maybe I wasn't ready for them at the time...
> 
> Have you ever tried the shorter Russian novels? Lermontov, Pushkin, a few of Tolstoi (The Cossacks, The Kreutzer Sonata) and of Dostoievsky (Notes from the Underground...), Gogol (the St Petursberg's stories)... There are lots of those, and I sometimes have the impression they tend to be forgotten, shadowed as they are by the more famous longer works.


I actually ahven't read any of the shorter novels and short stories. I kind of just dove right in, starting with The Master and Margarita, as well as The Brothers Karamazov. Neither worked out particularly well. I'm going to try them again later..It was really disappointing though.

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## Bitterfly

> I actually ahven't read any of the shorter novels and short stories. I kind of just dove right in, starting with The Master and Margarita, as well as The Brothers Karamazov. Neither worked out particularly well. I'm going to try them again later..It was really disappointing though.


It's quite normal: they're practically the hardest you could have chosen!! 

Bulgakov wrote easier novels than The Master and Margarita, which is interesting but quite heavy-going; ditto for Dostoievsky's The Brothers Karamazov. I don't know whether it's a matter of personal taste, but I found Crime and Punishment far more accessible. 
And do try *Notes from the Underground* - I really loved that book. Or *A day in the Life of Ivan Denissovitch*, a good place to start for Solyenitzyn. Or _The Kreutzer Sonata_, a beautiful (long) novella by Tolstoi, ifyou don't feel like starting straight off with Anna Karenina or War and Peace.
There are so many other Russian authors and works... it's really a pity to be disappointed by Russian literature only because you've chosen the "wrong" introductions to it... I know I went through a period when I was fascinated by them.

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## Basil Valentine

I've read pretty much everything Dostoevsky wrote over the last couple of years, and would definitely say that 'Crime & Punishment' is the best book to start off with. It's somehow easier reading than his other 'big' novels, and also more satisfying than his shorter work. If you don't enjoy it then I think it's unlikely that you'll like the heavier, more difficult to read stuff.

I'm now looking to expand my Russian reading as apart from lots of Dostoevsky and some Gogol (and Nabokov, don't know if he counts though...), I haven't read much else in the field. I keep thinking about giving 'War & Peace' a go, but am currently reluctant to commit myself to one big novel for ages... Any thoughts on other 'must read' Russian masters?

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## Idril

> I'm now looking to expand my Russian reading as apart from lots of Dostoevsky and some Gogol (and Nabokov, don't know if he counts though...), I haven't read much else in the field. I keep thinking about giving 'War & Peace' a go, but am currently reluctant to commit myself to one big novel for ages... Any thoughts on other 'must read' Russian masters?


_War and Peace_ is a truly amazing book. I would put it on your list for a rainy day...or 50  :Wink:  but do read, you won't be disappointed.

Are you looking for 19th century Russian or any era? A wonderful 19th Century author is Ivan Turgenev. He writes these short little books but are able to capture that era and society so succinctly and yet they are incredibly astute commentaries on the times. _Fathers and Sons_ is a must read book and another favorite Turgenev book for me was _On The Eve_ although you really can't go wrong with any of his works.

A couple of other worthwhile 19th century novels are _Oblomov_ by Ivan Goncharov, it's a little slow to begin with but stick with it and you will be richly rewarded...and _The Golovlyov Family_ by M.E. Saltykov.

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## Basil Valentine

> _War and Peace_ is a truly amazing book. I would put it on your list for a rainy day...or 50  but do read, you won't be disappointed.
> 
> Are you looking for 19th century Russian or any era? A wonderful 19th Century author is Ivan Turgenev. He writes these short little books but are able to capture that era and society so succinctly and yet they are incredibly astute commentaries on the times. _Fathers and Sons_ is a must read book and another favorite Turgenev book for me was _On The Eve_ although you really can't go wrong with any of his works.
> 
> A couple of other worthwhile 19th century novels are _Oblomov_ by Ivan Goncharov, it's a little slow to begin with but stick with it and you will be richly rewarded...and _The Golovlyov Family_ by M.E. Saltykov.


Great! Thanks a lot for the recommendations (and yes, I was mainly thinking of 19th century authors). I'll admit I was a little put off Turgenev because of Dostoevsky's attitude towards him, and satire of him, in 'Demons', but I still felt 'Fathers and Sons' was something I should really read at some point. I've never even heard of Goncharov or Saltykov, and both the books you mention look very interesting.

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## Etienne

"A couple of other worthwhile 19th century novels are Oblomov by Ivan Goncharov, it's a little slow to begin with but stick with it and you will be richly rewarded..."

I didn't think it was "slow" to begin, I think the beginning was in fact rather funny.

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## Idril

> Great! Thanks a lot for the recommendations (and yes, I was mainly thinking of 19th century authors). I'll admit I was a little put off Turgenev because of Dostoevsky's attitude towards him, and satire of him, in 'Demons', but I still felt 'Fathers and Sons' was something I should really read at some point. I've never even heard of Goncharov or Saltykov, and both the books you mention look very interesting.


I had the good fortune to read Turgenev before I knew anything of the man or others' opinion of him so I had a very open mind. There is no denying that he was a "Dandy". We was a very "European" Russian and lived his life somewhat extravagantly and I have little problem understanding why Dostoevsky disliked him so, he was, in many ways, the epitome of what Dostoevsky railed against...however, that doesn't take away from his talent. He's a very different writer from Dostoevsky or Tolstoy, he doesn't have the same concerns, he isn't coming from the same place, neither is he looking towards the same place but he still has a lot to say and he says it very well and I think he opens the window to a different aspect of Russian society at that time. 




> I didn't think it was "slow" to begin, I think the beginning was in fact rather funny.


I just had a very hard time connecting with the character of Oblamov, he was such an incredibly superfluous human being and granted, that's kind of the point but it just got old for me quickly. There were certainly some amusing anecdotes but there came to be a time when I was wondering whether this was just going to be one long, clever story about how ridiculous this class of people were or if it was going to go somewhere a little deeper and of course, it went somewhere deeper and then it all fell into place but there were a few chapters where I struggled to keep my interest up.

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## Etienne

Well I had already discussed this in some thread about the book. Oblomov is a caricature, but he is a very good caricature actually. I think from what I got too many people judge him for how he acted rather than for what insight there is in such a caricature and for it's merit as a character.

I thought this book was genius.

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## Idril

I think you miss understand what I'm saying though, I'm not saying I don't like the book, I wouldn't recommend it if I didn't like it. I loved the book and I grew to love the character of Oblomov very much despite being luke warm about him in the beginning. There is much more depth to the character than is originally evident. There is a bigger picture that I didn't see in the beginning and that's a comment I've heard often when discussing this book so I was just pointing out that while it may seem light and fluffy to someone who is used to reading the heavy works of Dostoevsky, if you stick with it, you will be richly rewarded.

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## bazarov

> Bulgakov wrote easier novels than The Master and Margarita, which is interesting but quite heavy-going; ditto for Dostoievsky's The Brothers Karamazov. I don't know whether it's a matter of personal taste, but I found Crime and Punishment far more accessible. 
> And do try *Notes from the Underground* - I really loved that book. Or *A day in the Life of Ivan Denissovitch*, a good place to start for Solyenitzyn. Or _The Kreutzer Sonata_, a beautiful (long) novella by Tolstoi, ifyou don't feel like starting straight off with Anna Karenina or War and Peace.


Notes are probably the hardest to start with, in my opinion; that's not even typical Dostoevsky. You should start with something from realism, and that would exclude Bulgakov and Solzhenitsyn. If you insist on Dostoevsky, start with C&P, and Anna Karenina is not hard; if you want Tolstoy.




> I'm now looking to expand my Russian reading as apart from lots of Dostoevsky and some Gogol (and Nabokov, don't know if he counts though...), I haven't read much else in the field. I keep thinking about giving 'War & Peace' a go, but am currently reluctant to commit myself to one big novel for ages... Any thoughts on other 'must read' Russian masters?


Turgenev - Fathers and Sons 
Pushkin - Eugene Onegin; novel in verse
Tolstoy - Anna Karenina, War and Peace 
Goncharov - Oblomov
Lermontov - Here of our times
Pasternak - Dr Zhivago
Bulgakov - Master and Margarita

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## *Classic*Charm*

Thanks for all the recommendations- I'll try some of the novels you all recommended as being slightly easier and we'll go from there!!

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## Azazel'

Sometimes the reason for not being able to fully understand or accept a piece of Russian literature, unfortunately, is that the reader is not a native Russian. The Russian Literature is very specific, and very often translators just can't transfer some particular notions, an atmosphere of the book to an interpreted text.

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## Dr. Hill

Russian literature is the reason I live.

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## bazarov

> Russian literature is the reason I live.


I think we have the same problem: what to read after reading all Russians? I have no clue. :Frown:

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## Jeremiah Jazzz

I'm dying to read Andrei Bely's Petersburg, but can't find it anywhere!! To the internet!

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## Dr. Hill

> I think we have the same problem: what to read after reading all Russians? I have no clue.


Exactly! Someone with my dilemma.

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## Bumbeli

My problem seems to be, that after reading all of Dostoevsky, some Gogol, Resurrection by Tolstoy and some Turgenev, nowadays it takes a long time until I find a book which matches the tremendous quality these books have. Until recently I kept myself from reading Anna Karenina because I wanted to read it whenthere is nothing to do for university, but I just couldn't wait any longer, and now it's like I'm waiting the whole day to continue reading it. Absolutely amazing novel.

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## Dori

> My problem seems to be, that after reading all of Dostoevsky, some Gogol, Resurrection by Tolstoy and some Turgenev, nowadays it takes a long time until I find a book which matches the tremendous quality these books have. Until recently I kept myself from reading Anna Karenina because I wanted to read it whenthere is nothing to do for university, but I just couldn't wait any longer, and now it's like I'm waiting the whole day to continue reading it. Absolutely amazing novel.


I'm reading _Resurrection_ by Tolstoy right now. What a great book! 

Read some Pushkin! Or perhaps some Chekhov. Pasternak? 
Just throwing names out there.  :Biggrin:

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## semi-fly

Any recommendations on literature relating to or pertaining to the the February and October revolutions of 1917? If not those specific Revolution(s) what about the 1905 Revolution?

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## Dori

> Any recommendations on literature relating to or pertaining to the the February and October revolutions of 1917? If not those specific Revolution(s) what about the 1905 Revolution?


_Doctor Zhivago_ by Boris Pasternak.  :Smile:

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## Emil Miller

> Any recommendations on literature relating to or pertaining to the the February and October revolutions of 1917? If not those specific Revolution(s) what about the 1905 Revolution?


The White Guard by Mikhail Boulgakov is outstanding.

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## semi-fly

For the two books mentioned above (_The White Guard_ by Mikhail Boulgakov & _Doctor Zhivago_ by Boris Pasternak) are there specific translations I should be on the lookout for that are true to the original language?

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## Dori

> For the two books mentioned above (_The White Guard_ by Mikhail Boulgakov & _Doctor Zhivago_ by Boris Pasternak) are there specific translations I should be on the lookout for that are true to the original language?


I'm not sure. I own the Max Hayward / Manya Harari translation. "The Poems of Yurii Zhivago" are translated by Bernard Guilbert Guerney.

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## Saladin

I "found" russian literature for 2 years ago (of course my first insight with russian literature were Mr.Dostoevsky). To be honest i dont even rememeber what i read before that time that were actually extra-ordinary good. There is some few exceptions of good novels and plays i read before entering the "world of russian literature", like for example Hamsun and plays - Ibsen, Shakespeare.

So far after three years i have only read Dostoevsky, some Gogol short stories, and some Pushkins poems. I havent read one single line of Tolstoys works or Turgenev or Bulgakov or Pasternak or Lermontov for that sake, so i am looking forward to do it.

So i dont think i have the same "problem" as some other avid russian literature reader does. I have a long reading list for probably the next decade which is just russian literature.

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## Emil Miller

> For the two books mentioned above (_The White Guard_ by Mikhail Boulgakov & _Doctor Zhivago_ by Boris Pasternak) are there specific translations I should be on the lookout for that are true to the original language?


I cannot speak for English because I came across the book in a French translation when I was in Paris, but if it reads as well in English as it does in French, then it is worth seeking out an English translation.

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## promtbr

> Russian literature is the reason I live.


On a personal aside, after seeing your early posts and more recent ones for a few months now and noticing that you were soaking up literature at such a rate and having such extreme interests (as per your posts referencing Oscar Wilde...) I thought to myself: "when he gets to Big D, Tolstoy and the russians, he's gone...

Welcome to the brotherhood.. :Wink: 

As per the posted recommendations, they are ALL good. IMHO there is not too much in the way of a bad work by D and T, as well as all of Turgenev and Gogol.

I will throw out a Post-Revolution russian author who's work is WORSHIPPED by about any mid twentieth century author you probably admire:

*Isaac Babel*. He wrote a few series of short works, the best known are: _The Red Calvary Stories_ and _The Odessa Stories_. He was executed by Stalin's secret police in 1944 at the age of 44 before he could finish his work.

In several polls of top literary authors listing their favorite and influential authors, Isaac Babel is listed near the top by about 70% of them.

Reading one of his stories will have the cossacks in your living room...

I can't recommend the recent Norton re-issue of Babel's _The Collected Stories of_ enough...

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## semi-fly

How does Arkady and Boris Strugatsky stand up/compare to some of the other authors mentioned in this thread so far? Should they even be compared to the likes of Leo Tolstoy, Fyodor Dostoevsky, etc.?

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## dfloyd

Since then I have read most of his works. Some I have read multiple times, inluding 'The Brothers Karamazov', 'Crime and Punishmewnt', "The Possessed', The Idiot', and the Gambler'. These I have read at least two times, The last Dostoevsky I read was 'A Raw Youth'. I have all of these in my peresonal library in finely bound, printed, and illustrated copies (Limited Editions Club). I have read many other Russian authors, but never 'War and Peace' Last year I watched three movies of 'War and Peace, including the Russian one with subtitles. Then I started reading the unabridged novel in two volumes published by the Folio Society. It wasn't hard to read, just long. Finished it a monthe ago, and I'm glad I finally got thru it.

I read Dr Zhivago in a paper back right after Pasternack won the Nobel prize. Finally got a nice copy 3 years ago, and reread with much pleasure.

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## bazarov

> Any recommendations on literature relating to or pertaining to the the February and October revolutions of 1917? If not those specific Revolution(s) what about the 1905 Revolution?


Dr Zhivago by Pasternak, and maybe And Quiet Flows the Don by Sholokhov.





> So far after three years i have only read Dostoevsky, some Gogol short stories, and some Pushkins poems. I havent read one single line of Tolstoys works or Turgenev or Bulgakov or Pasternak or Lermontov for that sake, so i am looking forward to do it.


You could use 3 years much better.  :Biggrin:

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## Tyler Self

I happened to fall in love with russian literature after reading "The Death of Ivan Ilyich." After that I read Doctor Zhivago (which I absolutely loved as well). I ended up highlighting a lot of passages in that book which had a particular impact on me. For example, when Lara was planning to shoot the guy (i can't remember his name) Pasternak remarked that (paraphrase): "She rediscovered her meaning in life. And was here to call everything by its right name." Not to mention the "A happiness not shared is not happiness at all."

After reading "Doctor Zhivago" I began to read "Anna Karenina" and that is where I am now. I want to pick up a copy of "Family Happiness" but I cannot find it anywhere. I realize it is on the internet but I absolutely cannot sit at my computer and read something like that.

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## semi-fly

> After reading "Doctor Zhivago" I began to read "Anna Karenina" and that is where I am now. I want to pick up a copy of "Family Happiness" but I cannot find it anywhere. I realize it is on the internet but I absolutely cannot sit at my computer and read something like that.


Have you tried Half, Barnes & Noble or Amazon or any number of internet retailers?

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## Tyler Self

^^I have a Barnes and Noble out where I live but cannot get there whenever I like (I am 17 and currently do not have a vehicle). I don't have a credit card either so internet retailers don't work as well.

It's only a matter of time anyway.  :Smile:

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## shud-shee

Dostoevsky and Tolstoi lose something essential in English. Can judge, for I'm from Russia.
Annensky said - we were tortured by Dostoevsky. And his "anguish" doesn't surge in translation.

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## Mag Master 21

Thanks to this thread, I just ordered 16 Russian books...

Yay!

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## promtbr

> Dostoevsky and Tolstoi lose something essential in English. Can judge, for I'm from Russia.
> Annensky said - we were tortured by Dostoevsky. And his "anguish" doesn't surge in translation.


This is very interesting and important to any discussion of literature in translation. In your opinion, is this also true of the recent (newer) translations of Tolstoy and Dostoevsky's works by the much acclaimed team of Richard Pevear and Larrisa Volokhonsky? 

I do not like the older Constance Garnett translations (have read them side by side to see.. )

I have purposely stayed away from Re-reading any Gogol and no longer have any of his books. I have read a paper that illustrated how his works lose MOST of their double meanings and nuances and plays on parts of speech through any current translations! Do you have an opinion on Gogol's translated books?

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## Mag Master 21

And two think I just got two Gogol novels... oh well.

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## shud-shee

The poser is that these languages are way too different, so my recommendation is to learn Russian. Besides, there's a mystery that is called Russian soul. Regarding Gogol, it depends on a work, but my general opinion is that he is more "translatable". This is also applicable to Tolstoi.

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## shud-shee

concerning Richard Pevear and Larrisa Volokhonsky, I'm afraid I can't tell you.

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## Tsuyoiko

> Dostoevsky and Tolstoi lose something essential in English. Can judge, for I'm from Russia.
> Annensky said - we were tortured by Dostoevsky. And his "anguish" doesn't surge in translation.


I often wondered if that was the case. I've read most of Dostoevsky, but was most aware of his anguish in _Notes from Underground_. I wonder if that was down to the translator, or if this work shows his anguish more than the others?




> I want to pick up a copy of "Family Happiness" but I cannot find it anywhere. I realize it is on the internet but I absolutely cannot sit at my computer and read something like that.


I would definitely recommend it. I read it in a Penguin Classics edition, bound with _The Cossacks_ and _The Death of Ivan Ilyich_. It's quite short, so you might consider printing out an e-book edition. It's a particularly appropriate read for a 17-year-old I think. In this book, and in Anna Karenina, I was particularly struck by Tolstoy's ability to convincingly depict the feelings of women.

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## Tyler Self

^^If those three come in one book together I will be a happy man. I bought a penguin classic on Thoreau. It had Walden, Civil Disobedience, Life Without Principle, and many more.

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## shud-shee

in Notes from Underground D has crystallized his "philosophy of tragedy" - that's the point

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## Justxxxne

Ok i'm new to this forum so this is officially my first post  :Nod: 

I was listening to an interview of the musician Regina Spektor and she mentioned a whole heap of famous russian writers and I jotted down all the names except one because she said it so quickly and I didn't know how to spell it either. Russian names are hard to pronounce and spell for someone who only speaks English!

SO it sounded like this: "preykoffi vichenkovski"

Has anybody out there heard of this author and knows how to spell the name correctly? I'd really love to find out who it is as I've suddenly developed an interest in Russian literature.

I would very much appreciate your help!

Thanks in advance  :Wave:

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## mal4mac

I recently read Tolstoy's shorter novels, which are at least as amazing as the two big books. I can't get "The Cossacks" out of my mind, and certainly don't want to! It's a wonderful dream of love & adventure.

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## dfloyd

novelists such as Tolstoy, Pushkin, Turgenev, and Pasternak etc. 
When I was in my twenties, they were tough reads. But now that i'm older they are fairly easy to read. It's like many other things in life, they get easier as time goes by. I have read Doctor Zhivago twice, the first time with a paperback published right after he won the Nobel prize. The last time, I read Zhivago in a nice edition published by the Folio Society in about 2000. Of course, Pasternak is a 20th century novelist so all translations are fairly recent. It might help if you viewed the movie first, one of my favorites with Omar Sharrif (sp?), Julie Christie, Rod Steiger etc.

I don't think you can go wrong with the Constance Garnett translations of the Russian 19th century novelists. She was almost contemporary with Dostoevsky, and she lived in Russia. Modern translations might be easier for a novice to read, but you will lose much of the flavor of the author. Nice editions are avaiable in the used book market: published by the Folio Society, the Easton Press, and the Heritage Press. The Heritage and Easton Press editions are illustrated with woodcuts by Fritz Eichenberg which add considerable impact. I realize some editions are beyond the means of college students, but they can be a lifetime investment. Just this year, I purchased a two volume edition of The Brothers Karamazov in the Limitedi Edtions Club version. It was published in 1950 and I consider myself fortunate to find this copy in nearly mint condition for $250. This next time will be my third time through the Brothers.

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## mal4mac

> I don't think you can go wrong with the Constance Garnett translations of the Russian 19th century novelists. She was almost contemporary with Dostoevsky, and she lived in Russia. Modern translations might be easier for a novice to read, but you will lose much of the flavor of the author.


I think Garnett is easier to read than several modern translators! There's a growing tendency to try and maintain the Riussian sentence structure, instead of translating the structure into English as well . I don't like this. If you are going to translate, why not go the whole hog!

So Garnett has been accused by "strict types" that she has "smoothed" Dostoevsky. But she has admitted this herself. Her excuse is that we would struggle otherwise. I'm not complaining. And according to Middleton Murray her BK is the greatest translation in the English language. Those needing a strictly literal translation, though, may need to look elsewhere.

Then again, I've seen literal translators slammed for mistranslating sentences that Garnett got right! So Garnett might even be the best, overall, literal translator.

I read the shorter novels of Tolstoy and War & Peace in the Maude translations. They were translating at the same time as Garnett, and Tolstoy approved their translations in glowing terms, saying that no other translators would ever be needed. I read Anna Karenina in the Garnett translation and it was pretty good. But I'd just give Maudes the nod for Tolstoy. 

The Maudes liked Garnett's translations and tried to get her involved with their translations of Tolstoy. But she liked to fly solo.

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## Three Sparrows

Interesting. So you would recommend Garnett? I always heard Pevear/Volokonsky was the best. I am looking to buy Pushkin soon, and have no idea what translation is best, so everyone feel free to recommend your favorite translators into English. Sometimes I feel like I am drowning in translators, there are to many to choose from!

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## Inderjit Sanghe

Nabokov, problably the most qualified commentator on translating Russian into English, despised Garnett, as did another seminal writer of both Russian and English literature, Joseph Brodsky.

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## mal4mac

> Nabokov, problably the most qualified commentator on translating Russian into English, despised Garnett, as did another seminal writer of both Russian and English literature, Joseph Brodsky.


Bloom points out how "petulant and unpleasant" Nabokov could be about the competition.

The critics in the Oxford Guide to Literature in Translation generally give Garnett a good press, and haven't succumbed to the Pevear/Volokonsky hype, for instance saying "their English translation sometimes seems distinctly odd". And, "... literalism means that the dialogue is sometimes impossibly odd "... foreignizing fidelity makes for difficult reading."

Modern translators do get some positive comments, e.g. for maintaining the humour that Garnett and Maude might lose in places. 

When there are several generally admired translators, from Garnett onwards, it makes choosing a translator very difficult. I generally just take what they have in the library, or on the discount shelf.

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## mal4mac

The Oxford Guide to Literature in Translation says there are 11 translations of Eugene Onegin! Actually, that's until 1995 and so doesn't include the Wordsworth Classics translation, which looks interesting as well as inexpensive. They say the "most remarkable" is the first one by Spalding in 1881. Another example of old is best?

"The ones which preceded Nabakov by no means deserved the withering scorn which he poured upon them."

So it wasn't just Garnett he disliked then. Has anyone read a biography of Nabakov? He sounds like a nasty piece of work...

Nabakov's(1965) version has "deadly accuracy vitiated by quirky English prose with a vague iambic plod." But it gets the recommendation for literal accuracy, and detailed commentary, so that more modern translators now "never make mistakes" (!)

Oxford give the same version of a verse from three translators. I compared it to "Wordsworth Classics" and think I prefer that version. If you like user-friendly prose translations of poetic epics it's definitely worth a look. Wordsworth seem to be moving away from using old, bad translators and are now hiring good, modern translators - their Faust is also worth a look...

P.S. "The Oxford Guide..." is a must buy.

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## mal4mac

> Dostoevsky and Tolstoi lose something essential in English. Can judge, for I'm from Russia.
> Annensky said - we were tortured by Dostoevsky. And his "anguish" doesn't surge in translation.


I am tortured by Dostoevsky translations, at least as much as by existential texts in English (William Burroughs, "Junky", say.) Many great English critics say the same - Harold Bloom for instance. 

Why would Dostoevsky and Tolstoy be considered the greatest novelists by so many English readers unless much of their essence did translate? 

As you are a native Russian I would say you were least able to judge their impact in English. As you have already read them in Russian then reading them in English is bound to have much less impact than your original reading, because: 1) The translation will obviously not be as good as the original 2) Your English will not be as good as your Russian.

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## five-trey

I've read Crime and Punishment, The Idiot, and I'm almost done with The Brothers Karamazov; and so far, I love Dostoevsky's work.

I was born in Eastern Europe and my first language was Bulgarian(fairly close to Russian) but I am a more fluent writer and speaker in English. So I feel very comfortable with English translations because many literal translations, which seem inelegant to a native English speaker, make perfect sense to me when I translate them. Perhaps that is why I find Dostoevsky's writing so enticing.

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## Inderjit Sanghe

> Bloom points out how "petulant and unpleasant" Nabokov could be about the competition


Nabokov never regarded Garnett, as 'competition' (for what exactly?, Nabokov was a writer first, and a translator second, and he never attempted to translate the same books as Garnett), I doubt that Nabokov would have even envisaged Garnett as being in any way, shape or form his literary equal, Nabokov was unconcerned by 'competition' in the proper sense of the word, he would have regarded it as a banal and glib gauge of his own and other writers literary merits, and the writers who he admired who he was coterminous with, such as Mandelstam, Bunin and Khodasevich, he praised, as he appreciated artists on their own individual level. 

Nabokov was not a 'nasty piece of work'-it is completely arbitrary to judge a human being on the basis of two sentences based on his aesthetic preferences. Nabokov was a kind, sensitive, generous and gentle person, I have read several of his biographies, the main themes in his books are about human cruelty and pain. Yes Nabokov was stringent in his criticsms of other authors and translators, but that was because of his exacting aesthetic standards, and yes, a good degree of personal arrogance.

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## kiki1982

> Why would Dostoevsky and Tolstoy be considered the greatest novelists by so many English readers unless much of their essence did translate? 
> 
> As you are a native Russian I would say you were least able to judge their impact in English. As you have already read them in Russian then reading them in English is bound to have much less impact than your original reading, because: 1) The translation will obviously not be as good as the original 2) Your English will not be as good as your Russian.


As a native Dutch-speaker I have to disagre with this strongly. It is not totally impossible to judge on a neutral basis whether something is as good in the one language or the other. 

I definitely find that English and French works lack in both Dutch and German translations. Dutch is absolutely abominable mostly (bad translators or bad language? I go for the second as I have had a go myself. Not so much vocabulary that can convey the feelings which words arouse). Characters either speak too stiffly or become too informal for their time. It is a problem. Descrptions are totally ridiculous. German is more lyrical and goes well in descriptions, but loses it as soon as people start talking in novels. Characters become too German and not English or French enough. 

Dostoevsky and Tolstoy can still be deemed brilliant writers, although their works miss something in translation. If a work is brilliant, it will stay brilliant, only a little less. Gold is still gold, even if it has lost its true shine. 

Now, on topic for the Russians here:

I have had the crazy idea after reading Pushkin that I will put my shoulders under the Russian language and read in Russian some day. 

So far it is going well, but can you recommend authors to start with after I have gone through the obligatory newspapers, magazines and children's books? Who is easy?

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## Maryana

I can hardly imaging reading Pushkin in English or German... Some things simply can't be translated. One of the best things about Pushkin is that he sounds strangely modern, despite the fact he lived 200 years ago. And yet you feel that this was written by a person who lived in a different epoch. That's what you can see if you're a native speaker... I am :Smile:

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## blazeofglory

I have read Russian literature massively and most of Dostoevsky and Tolstoy and I feel few have written so grandiloquently the way the Russians did. They are matchless and I rate Russian is the greatest literary world

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## Aravona

I've read one book which comes under Russian literature. Russian Author at least  :Smile:  _The Secret History of Moscow_ - Ekaterina Sedia. I very much fell in love with that book, and am greatly inspired now by this thread to wade down to the deep end of the Russian literature swimming pool.

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## blazeofglory

The two Russian writers I find matchless in the history of world literature are Tolstoy and Dostoevsky and no books both in terms of philosophy and style were ever written compared with War and Peace and the Brothers Karamazov. And this is my evaluation.

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## blp

> I can hardly imaging reading Pushkin in English or German... Some things simply can't be translated.


As I remember it, this was also Nabokov's view. The greatest prose stylist of all time, but no non-Russian speaker would ever understand why. Something like that.

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## Mockingbird_z

Now I got a crazy idea, having read Pushkin's "Evgeniy Onegin" in oroginal i will have a go and read it in translation. For the sake of experiment.

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## byquist

Tolstoy is special, including Resurrection.

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## Babak Movahed

It's great from Pushkin to Bulgakov. I mean Crime and Punishment is in my opinion the greatest novel of all time and it for sure will be on any top 10 greatest novels list. Dostoevsky can be called (and by many is called) the greatest writer of all time, with Tolstoy not to far behind him on that list.

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## testwilliams

This question has been killing me for hours now. Does anyone know what short story Chekhov wrote the line "and suddenly everything became clear to him" in? I've searched what seems like every quotations and other similar webpage that shows up when I search for it, but still can't find it. All I know is that apparently it's from one of Chekhov's short stories and that Raymond Carver really liked the quote, so much that he pinned it to the wall above his writing desk.

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## Mr.lucifer

I heard that russian literature is still going strong. Kolyma tales is a good example and is perhaps one of the greatest short story collections of all times,perhaps even comparable to chekhov's tales.

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## Vlad Dracula

The Russian culture and mentality is something special and unique!! Lately I had the occasion to meet it and I am really fascinating!

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## blazeofglory

The Russian Renaissance was awe-inspiring and the writers it birthed were insuperable in their creative works. Chekov for instance has always been a matchless storyteller. Dostoevsky remained an unparalleled master on novels. Tolstoy was an epical personality. Even no Americans and Europeans could equal them. They were really deep and profound in their characterization and in their delineation of human natures

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## stlukesguild

blazes... you offer nothing new... just personal opinion confused with fact. Checkoff is a matchless story-teller? Really? One might suggest any number who equal or arguably surpass him (Maupassant, Kafka, J.L. Borges, Thomas hardy, Joseph Conrad, E.T.A. Hoffmann, Ambrose Bierce, Poe, Hemingway, Dickens, Hawthorne, Boccaccio, the author/s of the 1001 Arabian Knights...). Dostoevsky is the greatest novelist? Truly? Many at LitNet might agree with you, but as JBI has pointed out many young or inexperienced readers come across Dostoevsky and Nietzsche an identify with their existentialism and confuse their admiration with aesthetic merit. This is not to suggest Dostoevsky is not a great novelist... but so was Cervantes, Victor Hugo, Flaubert, Lawrence Sterne, Dickens, Murasaki Shikibu Thomas Hardy, Zola, Balzac, Joseph Conrad, James Joyce, William Faulkner, and Gabriel Garcia Marquez, etc... Indeed, one might quite easily make an argument that Tolstoy was the greatest novelist. As for Tolstoy as the author of epic personality... one might easily argue that Shakespeare, Cervantes, Lawrence Sterne, Dickens, and even Twain created characters that are just as "epic" in development... characters that virtually "live" beyond the confines of the text in which they were created. 

Seriously, your adulation of the Russians strikes me as just one more aspect of your continual diatribe to the effect of "They just don't write like they used to."

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## Mr.lucifer

Besides, have you even read any of the asian traditions? I hear theres a wealth of writers that rival the masters of the west.

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## tonywalt

Name a few Asian writers. Actually they seem underepresented on this forum, maybe there are less translations.

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## AJ Culpepper

I love a lot of Russian works. "The Brothers Karamazov" and "Anna Karinina" are counted amongst my favorites. 

Even though I enjoy the works of Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, Pushkin and Helena Roerich, I always feel that I'm missing something. I follow the stories and I "get them", don't get me wrong. But it always feels that things get left out when the works are translated from their original language (not just Russian to English but any languages). The depth and feel of them changes.

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## kelby_lake

> This question has been killing me for hours now. Does anyone know what short story Chekhov wrote the line "and suddenly everything became clear to him" in? I've searched what seems like every quotations and other similar webpage that shows up when I search for it, but still can't find it. All I know is that apparently it's from one of Chekhov's short stories and that Raymond Carver really liked the quote, so much that he pinned it to the wall above his writing desk.


I recall it as well. Maybe 'The Kiss'?

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## blazeofglory

Writing indeed tarnishes the image of a book. It distorts its meaning, disparages its beauty and degrades its quality.

Just see even in their translational form Russian literature is far superior to American and British novels and stories. 

I read Mark Twain, Charles Dickens and the like but Dostoevsky, Chekhov, Tolstoy are far better and their fictions are of higher quality and philosophically are far ahead.

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## Mr.lucifer

I think Blazeofglory is a romanticist.

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## stlukesguild

I read Mark Twain, Charles Dickens and the like but Dostoevsky, Chekhov, Tolstoy are far better and their fictions are of higher quality and philosophically are far ahead. 

Romantic? There are probably other words for one who makes such blanket moronic statements. What Blazes claim comes down to is: "Based upon my reading experience, I like Russian literature the best." There is no attempt at proving how Russian stories are "far superior" to German, French, American, British or Italian writers. There is no attempt to back up the claims that Russian fiction is "far better and of a higher quality" than all the other national literature. Really? And what Russian writer surpasses Shakespeare or Dante or Homer or Firdowsi? And there is no attempt to explain just how Russian fiction is philosophically superior? Again... superior to what? prove to us where Russian literature is so profound in comparison to all other national literature, otherwise all you are doing is spouting hot air.

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## Mr.lucifer

> I read Mark Twain, Charles Dickens and the like but Dostoevsky, Chekhov, Tolstoy are far better and their fictions are of higher quality and philosophically are far ahead. 
> 
> Romantic? There are probably other words for one who makes such blanket moronic statements. What Blazes claim comes down to is: "Based upon my reading experience, I like Russian literature the best." There is no attempt at proving how Russian stories are "far superior" to German, French, American, British or Italian writers. There is no attempt to back up the claims that Russian fiction is "far better and of a higher quality" than all the other national literature. Really? And what Russian writer surpasses Shakespeare or Dante or Homer or Firdowsi? And there is no attempt to explain just how Russian fiction is philosophically superior? Again... superior to what? prove to us where Russian literature is so profound in comparison to all other national literature, otherwise all you are doing is spouting hot air.


Well, I think we can all be certain Tolstoy would beat them all at Drag racing. After all, Homer could write like a god, but he was a wimp.

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## stlukesguild

Homer might have problems in a street fight, to say nothing of drag racing, considering his blindness. The Elizabethans, on the other hand, were a rather rowdy bunch (remember Marlowe) vs Tolstoy the pampered celibate aristocrat with illusions of becoming a prophet so I think Shakespeare could certainly hold his own ground. My money, however, would go with Dante, who survived any number of rounds of vicious political upheavals. This, after all, is not the portrait of someone to trifle with:

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## Mr.lucifer

> Homer might have problems in a street fight, to say nothing of drag racing, considering his blindness. The Elizabethans, on the other hand, were a rather rowdy bunch (remember Marlowe) vs Tolstoy the pampered celibate aristocrat with illusions of becoming a prophet so I think Shakespeare could certainly hold his own ground. My money, however, would go with Dante, who survived any number of rounds of vicious political upheavals. This, after all, is not the portrait of someone to trifle with:


Wow, badass and great writing skills, and they say great writers are boring.

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## kelby_lake

He looks really scary  :Frown:

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## blazeofglory

Russian literature is really insuperable and it has a wonderful variety and so many forms. Tollway for example is a matchless writer in war and peace, Anna Karena, Resurrection. Chekhov has so many masterpieces. Dostoevsky's novels transports us into our inner selves and Gogol' sarcasm is superb and beyond compare. The rest of the world must learn from the Russian tradition. I always take Russian as writers my guiding stars. They are my fountainheads of inspirations.

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## Alexander III

> French literature is really insuperable and it has a wonderful variety and so many forms. Flaubert for example is a matchless writer in Madame Bovary, Salammbo, Sentimental Education. Zola has so many masterpieces. Stendhal's novels transport us into our inner selves and Baudelaire's sarcasm is superb and beyond compare. The rest of the world must learn from the French tradition. I always take French writers as my guiding stars. They are my fountainheads of inspirations.






> English literature is really insuperable and it has a wonderful variety and so many forms. George Eliot for example is a matchless writer in Middlemarch, Daniel Deronda, Silas Marner. Dickens has so many masterpieces. Joseph Conrad's novels transport us into our inner selves and Thackeray's sarcasm is superb and beyond compare. The rest of the world must learn from the English tradition. I always take English writers as my guiding stars. They are my fountainheads of inspirations.






> Italian literature is really insuperable and it has a wonderful variety and so many forms. D'Annunzio for example is a matchless writer in The Child Of Pleasure, The Innocent, The Triumph Of Death. Verga has so many masterpieces. Manzoni's novels transport us into our inner selves and Svevo's sarcasm is superb and beyond compare. The rest of the world must learn from the Italian tradition. I always take Italian writers as my guiding stars. They are my fountainheads of inspirations.






> American literature is really insuperable and it has a wonderful variety and so many forms.Whitman for example is a matchless writer in Song Of Myself, O Captain My Captain,I Saw in Louisiana a Live-Oak Growing. Emerson has so many masterpieces. Melville's novels transport us into our inner selves and Twain's sarcasm is superb and beyond compare. The rest of the world must learn from the American tradition. I always take American writers as my guiding stars. They are my fountainheads of inspirations.



There we go I fixed your statement

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## Alexander III

> Homer might have problems in a street fight, to say nothing of drag racing, considering his blindness. The Elizabethans, on the other hand, were a rather rowdy bunch (remember Marlowe) vs Tolstoy the pampered celibate aristocrat with illusions of becoming a prophet so I think Shakespeare could certainly hold his own ground. My money, however, would go with Dante, who survived any number of rounds of vicious political upheavals. This, after all, is not the portrait of someone to trifle with:


I do think you undervalue Tolstoy, in his youth he was a military officer serving in the caucasus and participating in several battles, the most significant of which was the siege of Sevastopol which was a dam harsh fight.

But I think the tittle for bad arse must go to Cervantes, his resume includes:

- Serving 6 years in the Spanish Navy Infantry

- Fought in major naval Battle against the Turks in 1571, where he received three gunshot wounds. 

- Participated in military expeditions to Corfu and Navarino; and in the conquest of the capital of Tunis - La Goletta.

-On his way to Barcelona his ship was captured by Algerian pirates, and he was taken into slavery, serving five years as an algerian slave before his family was able to pay his ransom and free him from slavery. During those five years he attempted to escape four times, unsuccessfully.

- On his return to Spain he left the army and traveled the spanish empire as a tax collector. During this period he was imprisoned twice for debt.

- Towards the end of his life he settled in Madrid.


What writer can top that level of bad assery? Come to think of it his life would make an awesome movie.

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## JCamilo

The truth is that many poets of Spanish golden age were soldiers or had militar careers. Camoes too. It was somehow a trait of period. 

You can include here, maybe François Villon, a not good guy, or Cicer, who obviously, fought against Caesar an Octavio (albeit he was no footman or something). Obviously, Richard Burton is a writer and since he is Indiana Jones he would defeat them all.

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## G L Wilson

I liked Gogol, what was left of him, as a young man. I read Crime and Punishment and liked the end. I loved Zamyatin's We. Not much more to tell, I am afraid.

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## Fyodor

The Russians are the best because many (Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Solzhenitsyn etc) lived during totalitarian regimes who would kill you if they didn't like what you said. Thus much of their intention is cloaked within the deep, penetrating, heavy nature of their work. In this way Dostoevsky criticized the Russian institutions, including the church, while evading execution. 

While I do love Bulgakov and Tolstoy, Dostoevsky is the master here. That's why I chose Fyodor as my handle. His best work, The Brother's Karamazov does not show the length and depth of this penetration, even if it is his best effort. The Possessed, or The Demons is the best illustration of what it took to say 'something' during this radical time of political and social oppression.

It is unfortunate that so many people are forced to read "Crime and Punishment" which is his worst novel. Instead try either "Notes From Underground" or "The Gambler" for an introduction to his writing.

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## Kundan

I have not read any but have heard much praise of it.

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## Buffalo Girl

> The Russians are the best because many (Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Solzhenitsyn etc) lived during totalitarian regimes who would kill you if they didn't like what you said. Thus much of their intention is cloaked within the deep, penetrating, heavy nature of their work. In this way Dostoevsky criticized the Russian institutions, including the church, while evading execution. 
> 
> While I do love Bulgakov and Tolstoy, Dostoevsky is the master here. That's why I chose Fyodor as my handle. His best work, The Brother's Karamazov does not show the length and depth of this penetration, even if it is his best effort. The Possessed, or The Demons is the best illustration of what it took to say 'something' during this radical time of political and social oppression.
> 
> It is unfortunate that so many people are forced to read "Crime and Punishment" which is his worst novel. Instead try either "Notes From Underground" or "The Gambler" for an introduction to his writing.


I have to agree. I began Dostoevsky with Crime and Punishment and thought it was just OK, felt a little predictable in parts. But Brothers Karamazov, for me, was thorougly engaging beginning to end. And for a work of dark characters - a murder mystery, and some pretty deep philosophical inquiries, it managed a good deal of humor.

Tolstoy's War and Peace, I found to be a page turner, once you got through the first 100 or so pages and got straight with all of the characters.

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## G L Wilson

War and Peace? God, that's so Russian - it's got jackboots.

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## stlukesguild

The Russians are the best because many (Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Solzhenitsyn etc) lived during totalitarian regimes who would kill you if they didn't like what you said.

What does the environment that an artist works under have to do with the merit or lack of merit of his or her work? Even were this true, many other writers lived under equally oppressive conditions and in dangerous times. Dante was banished under penalty of death from his home of Florence as the result of shifts in politics. The great majority of the artists and writers of the Italian Renaissance worked for rapacious, violent, and vengeful rulers who were not far removed from the Latin-American drug lords of today... and this doesn't even begin to deal with the Church especially at the height of the Inquisition, the Witch Hunts, and the various religious wars that ripped through Europe. It is quite possible that Chaucer was a casualty of the coup which ousted Richard II and replaced him with Henry Bolingbroke and the bloodthirsty Thomas Arundel, Archbishop of Canterbury and later Lord Chamberlain (_Who MUrdered Chaucer? A Medieval Mystery_ by Terry Jones, Robert Yeager, Terry Dolan, Alan Fletcher, and Juliette Dor). Thomas Kyd was arrested for alleged libelous and heretical writings and brutally tortured before being released. He died a year later at the age of 36. Christopher Marlowe, who shared lodgings with Kyd was also summoned before the courts but died in a bar-brawl (assassination?) with known government agents. Sir Thomas More was executed on trumped up charges of high treason. Sir Walter Raleigh was also executed upon trumped up charges of treason. Any number of other writers have dealt with arrest, banishment, imprisonment, jail time, institutionalization and execution for "crimes" ranging from mental illness, treason, profanity, and obscenity to homosexuality (John Clare, Torquado Tasso, Ovid, Seneca, Oscar Wilde, Holderlin, Verlaine, Jean Genet, etc...). 

Thus much of their intention is cloaked within the deep, penetrating, heavy nature of their work. In this way Dostoevsky criticized the Russian institutions, including the church, while evading execution.

The fact that a work of literature is dark, brooding, and "heavy" in no way assures us that the same work is inherently "better" or more profound than many other "lighter" or humorous books. Of course that's a prejudice common to the young and inexperienced. Dostoevsky and Tolstoy are certainly great writers... but in no way are they (and their other Russian peers) clearly "better" than the strongest writers of France, Italy, Spain, Germany, England, Greece, etc... to say nothing of Indian, China, Japan, Persia, and the whole of the non-Western world.

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## Fyodor

But I don't agree that you have actually said anything. 







> The Russians are the best because many (Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Solzhenitsyn etc) lived during totalitarian regimes who would kill you if they didn't like what you said.
> 
> What does the environment that an artist works under have to do with the merit or lack of merit of his or her work? Even were this true, many other writers lived under equally oppressive conditions and in dangerous times. Dante was banished under penalty of death from his home of Florence as the result of shifts in politics. The great majority of the artists and writers of the Italian Renaissance worked for rapacious, violent, and vengeful rulers who were not far removed from the Latin-American drug lords of today... and this doesn't even begin to deal with the Church especially at the height of the Inquisition, the Witch Hunts, and the various religious wars that ripped through Europe. It is quite possible that Chaucer was a casualty of the coup which ousted Richard II and replaced him with Henry Bolingbroke and the bloodthirsty Thomas Arundel, Archbishop of Canterbury and later Lord Chamberlain (_Who MUrdered Chaucer? A Medieval Mystery_ by Terry Jones, Robert Yeager, Terry Dolan, Alan Fletcher, and Juliette Dor). Thomas Kyd was arrested for alleged libelous and heretical writings and brutally tortured before being released. He died a year later at the age of 36. Christopher Marlowe, who shared lodgings with Kyd was also summoned before the courts but died in a bar-brawl (assassination?) with known government agents. Sir Thomas More was executed on trumped up charges of high treason. Sir Walter Raleigh was also executed upon trumped up charges of treason. Any number of other writers have dealt with arrest, banishment, imprisonment, jail time, institutionalization and execution for "crimes" ranging from mental illness, treason, profanity, and obscenity to homosexuality (John Clare, Torquado Tasso, Ovid, Seneca, Oscar Wilde, Holderlin, Verlaine, Jean Genet, etc...). 
> 
> Thus much of their intention is cloaked within the deep, penetrating, heavy nature of their work. In this way Dostoevsky criticized the Russian institutions, including the church, while evading execution.
> 
> The fact that a work of literature is dark, brooding, and "heavy" in no way assures us that the same work is inherently "better" or more profound than many other "lighter" or humorous books. Of course that's a prejudice common to the young and inexperienced. Dostoevsky and Tolstoy are certainly great writers... but in no way are they (and their other Russian peers) clearly "better" than the strongest writers of France, Italy, Spain, Germany, England, Greece, etc... to say nothing of Indian, China, Japan, Persia, and the whole of the non-Western world.

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## stlukesguild

Well if you are having such difficulty grasping what I have said I'll put it in simple terms: Russian literature certainly produced a body of marvelous literature but it is in no way clearly superior to the bodies of literature produced in France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Greece, England, India, Persia, China, or any number of other nations.

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## Ecurb

> Well if you are having such difficulty grasping what I have said I'll put it in simple terms: Russian literature certainly produced a body of marvelous literature but it is in no way clearly superior to the bodies of literature produced in France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Greece, England, India, Persia, China, or any number of other nations.


This is certainly untrue. In one way, at least, Russian literature is "clearly superior to the bodies of literature produced in France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Greece..." 

What is that way? The opinion of Fyodor, of course.

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## stlukesguild

Quite true. And isn't this where there is the source of debate... when one places one's personal opinion up as if it were a fact set in stone and beyond all question? There have been those of us who have equally questioned the assertion by one member that _Ulysses_ is the single greatest book ever written.... or even that Shakespeare is clearly the single greatest writer without question.

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## Fyodor

It's not that I don't understand what you are saying. It's my contention that you are not saying anything.

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## Ecurb

I prefer the "who would win in a fight" argument. Since you're into painting, what about Carravaggio representing that art form. He was banished from Rome for killing a man in a sword fight. 

Tolstoy may have been a soldier as a young man -- but wasn't he a die-hard pacifist later in life? That has to count against him. Byron (club foot and all) is still a hero in Greece for fighting the Turks (and athletic enought to swim the Hellespont, too). Hemmingway fancied himself a boxer, and FX Toole (of "Million Dollar Baby" fame) was a pro boxer.

I think we should disqualify professional athletes who (perhaps) have ghostwriting help for their books. WE have to go with people who are famous for their artistic talents (rather than banking on their athletic fame ot whip out some books). Didn't Alexandre Dumas fight some duels?

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## JCamilo

Richard Burton vs. François Villon.

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## stlukesguild

I prefer the "who would win in a fight" argument. Since you're into painting, what about Carravaggio representing that art form. He was banished from Rome for killing a man in a sword fight. 

Artists in a bar fight. Hmmm... Caravaggio would surely be a contender... but those sculptors were involved in some seriously heavy labor. I imagine Michelangelo, Donatello, ad Bernini must have had arms like roofers. :FRlol:

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## stlukesguild

It's my contention that you are not saying anything. 

Fair enough... considering my contention is that you don't know anything. :Ciappa:

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## mortalterror

> Fair enough... considering my contention is that you don't know anything.


As much as it pains me to agree with any statement followed by an emoticon, I have to concur with Stlukesguild on this one. Anyone who would contend that the works of Tolstoy and Dostoyevski occupy an unrivaled position in literature superior to Homer's Iliad, Virgil's Aeneid, Vyasa's Mahabharata, Ferdowsi's Shahnameh, Dante's Divine Comedy, Cao Xueqin's Dream of the Red Chamber, Cervante's Don Quixote, Shakespeare's Hamlet, and Goethe's Faust is demonstrating an appalling ignorance about world literature.

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## WyattGwyon

> It's not that I don't understand what you are saying. It's my contention that you are not saying anything.


Wrong. St. Luke presented a cogent argument against Russian exceptionalism with well-chosen examples. It is you who haven't said anything.

Mortalterror,

Does a pair of waggling virtual butt-cheeks qualify as an emoticon?

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## JCamilo

And if the emotions is before the statement, does it have more appeal?

 :Idea: Moby dick has certainly qualities that rivals any novel even written, even the without doubt, most influential of all, Don Quixote. It is as epic as Tolstoy and as deeply psychological as Dostoievisky at once. 

Sounds how bad?

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## Fyodor

Start here, boyo: 

I say that the Russians are the Best. Maybe this is my true opinion, maybe it's a bit hyperbole, maybe I know that it is impossible to say for a fact what is the best in terms of art, maybe I don't. I don't think it's a great crime, however, you are ready to indict me. 



> The Russians are the best because many (Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Solzhenitsyn etc) lived during totalitarian regimes who would kill you if they didn't like what you said.
> 
> And this is your indictment? Look at the start, you ask a rhetorical question, what does environment have to do with merit? Then you say 'even if it were true...' Even if WHAT were true? 
> *This lacks even a small amount of sense.* 
> Then you go into a diatribe about examples in history to show how very, very smart you are. Nice job, but I can't possibly care because of the poor start. 
> What does the environment that an artist works under have to do with the merit or lack of merit of his or her work? Even were this true, many other writers lived under equally oppressive conditions and in dangerous times. Dante was banished under penalty of death from his home of Florence as the result of shifts in politics. The great majority of the artists and writers of the Italian Renaissance worked for rapacious, violent, and vengeful rulers who were not far removed from the Latin-American drug lords of today... and this doesn't even begin to deal with the Church especially at the height of the Inquisition, the Witch Hunts, and the various religious wars that ripped through Europe. It is quite possible that Chaucer was a casualty of the coup which ousted Richard II and replaced him with Henry Bolingbroke and the bloodthirsty Thomas Arundel, Archbishop of Canterbury and later Lord Chamberlain (_Who MUrdered Chaucer? A Medieval Mystery_ by Terry Jones, Robert Yeager, Terry Dolan, Alan Fletcher, and Juliette Dor). Thomas Kyd was arrested for alleged libelous and heretical writings and brutally tortured before being released. He died a year later at the age of 36. Christopher Marlowe, who shared lodgings with Kyd was also summoned before the courts but died in a bar-brawl (assassination?) with known government agents. Sir Thomas More was executed on trumped up charges of high treason. Sir Walter Raleigh was also executed upon trumped up charges of treason. Any number of other writers have dealt with arrest, banishment, imprisonment, jail time, institutionalization and execution for "crimes" ranging from mental illness, treason, profanity, and obscenity to homosexuality (John Clare, Torquado Tasso, Ovid, Seneca, Oscar Wilde, Holderlin, Verlaine, Jean Genet, etc...). 
> 
> And Now, I say that much of their intention is cloaked within the deep, penetrating, heavy nature of their work. 
> 
> ...


Thus, in your quixotic fashion you are fighting a windmill that nobody ever built. Perhaps this means you are an even greater genius than you yourself can hope. But I doubt it. 

*So to be fair to the rest of the nice folks on this forum, if youre going to go around nitpicking and attempting to force your vision of superior intellect on people, please, for the love literature, at least make sense. Generally speaking.*

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## Ecurb

Are "Russian literature is the best" and "Russian literature is my favorite" synonymous? It seems to me that one attempts to make a general classification, the other expresses a personal preference.

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## JCamilo

Fyodor slipped sloppery...

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## Mr.lucifer

The true greatest tradition of writers are the canadians.

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## G L Wilson

> The true greatest tradition of writers are the canadians.


Canadians should stick to maple syrup and learn how to spell.

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## Venerable Bede

> Canadians should stick to maple syrup and learn how to spell.


Hey I'm Canadian! But yeah, we don't really have a great canon of literature.


Fyordor, Stlukes's post makes perfect sense. You're just pissed cuz he owned you with his "superior intellect."  :Tongue:

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## mortalterror

> And if the emotions is before the statement, does it have more appeal?
> 
> Moby dick has certainly qualities that rivals any novel even written, even the without doubt, most influential of all, Don Quixote. It is as epic as Tolstoy and as deeply psychological as Dostoievisky at once. 
> 
> Sounds how bad?


Emoticons make a writer look like an idiot who doesn't know how to use words. There is no proper way to use them which would make the user either look more intelligent, or improve his statement. The inclusion of emoticons in a message is the equivalent of juvenile netspeak such as lol or rofl. We already have a great medium for expressing ideas and feelings called "the word." This goes double on a literary forum devoted to the discussion of eloquence.

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## G L Wilson

> Emoticons make a writer look like an idiot who doesn't know how to use words. There is no proper way to use them which would make the user either look more intelligent, or improve his statement. The inclusion of emoticons in a message is the equivalent of juvenile netspeak such as lol or rofl. We already have a great medium for expressing ideas and feelings called "the word." This goes double on a literary forum devoted to the discussion of eloquence.


I reckon the smilies are kinda cute.

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## stlukesguild

Emoticons make a writer look like an idiot who doesn't know how to use words. There is no proper way to use them which would make the user either look more intelligent, or improve his statement. The inclusion of emoticons in a message is the equivalent of juvenile netspeak such as lol or rofl. We already have a great medium for expressing ideas and feelings called "the word." This goes double on a literary forum devoted to the discussion of eloquence.

But remember, Mortal, I am a visual artist, so I don't underrate the image and overrate the "word" to the same extent as you... although admittedly, emoticons aren't the greatest of imagery. I'll try to dig up a good appropriate image next time just for you.

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## Mr.lucifer

> Canadians should stick to maple syrup and learn how to spell.


Just for existing, the canadians are the greatest people in existence.

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## mortalterror

> But remember, Mortal, I am a visual artist, so I don't underrate the image and overrate the "word" to the same extent as you... although admittedly, emoticons aren't the greatest of imagery. I'll try to dig up a good appropriate image next time just for you.


I know that. You are a special case; so I make allowances for all the pictures you throw up or the visual arts references you make. I also don't object to them to the same extent in other non-literary forums. There is nothing new about them, and in time I've grown to accept them as a regrettable part of internet culture, just as I've made peace with 1337, lolcats, Rickrolls, and multiple exclamation points. I just don't expect to encounter them in the comments of older more sophisticated posters.

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## Mr.lucifer

> I know that. You are a special case; so I make allowances for all the pictures you throw up or the visual arts references you make. I also don't object to them to the same extent in other non-literary forums. There is nothing new about them, and in time I've grown to accept them as a regrettable part of internet culture, just as I've made peace with 1337, lolcats, Rickrolls, and multiple exclamation points. I just don't expect to encounter them in the comments of older more sophisticated posters.


Come on man, Rickrolls and lolcats are priceless. Encyclopedia dramatica definitely has some literary merit. Its a like a modern devil's dictionary.

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## G L Wilson

I don't like the question mark myself.

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## JCamilo

> Emoticons make a writer look like an idiot who doesn't know how to use words. There is no proper way to use them which would make the user either look more intelligent, or improve his statement. The inclusion of emoticons in a message is the equivalent of juvenile netspeak such as lol or rofl. We already have a great medium for expressing ideas and feelings called "the word." This goes double on a literary forum devoted to the discussion of eloquence.


 :Iagree:

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## Danik 2016

Have you exausted Wikipedia in the available languages?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Mayakovsky

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Маяков...ич

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## CharlesSwann2

If you love literature, as I do, Russian literature--especially 19th Century novels--are among the greatest in world and close to Shakespeare in their value as literature in general. Dostoevsky, Tolstoy are, of course, the giants, with Gogol close behind. Chekhov did not write novels but his short stories (especially the later ones) and his plays are a great as anything ever written. I hate to seem snobbish, but you don't really know anything about literature until you've feasted on the Russians!

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## Pompey Bum

> If you love literature, as I do, Russian literature--especially 19th Century novels--are among the greatest in world and close to Shakespeare in their value as literature in general. Dostoevsky, Tolstoy are, of course, the giants, with Gogol close behind. Chekhov did not write novels but his short stories (especially the later ones) and his plays are a great as anything ever written. I hate to seem snobbish, but you don't really know anything about literature until you've feasted on the Russians!


Welcome to the site, CharlesSwann. I am never happier than when I am reading good Russian literature although I do not pretend to be nearly well read enough in the subject. I have never read Turgenev, for example, and I have only recently started Gogol. You may be interested to join this thread about several authors (in fact, any you like), but which recently turned to Dostoyevsky, Dickens, Fielding, and Gogol (two out of four ain't bad  :Smile:  ). I am frankly weak on the Russian authors, and I would appreciate any insight you could provide. Here's the thread:

http://www.online-literature.com/for...erature-Ramble

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## Goodman Brown

Ok I've read through this whole thread and nobody even mentioned Dimitry Gregorovitsh,,,,, so now I must suggest everyone look up Dimitry Gregorovitsh and procure a copy of (the Fishermen) and report back here in two weeks , ample time for the book has less than 400 ,pages, a good read is guaranteed to all,,,,,,

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## Pompey Bum

> Ok I've read through this whole thread and nobody even mentioned Dimitry Gregorovitsh,,,,, so now I must suggest everyone look up Dimitry Gregorovitsh and procure a copy of (the Fishermen) and report back here in two weeks , ample time for the book has less than 400 ,pages, a good read is guaranteed to all,,,,,,


Sorry, but I'm rereading the Possessed after more than 30 years. That (and Christmas) will take up my time for a while. But thanks for reading the other thread. You should go back over there and start talking about Gregorovitsh. JCamilo is more broadly read than I am, so he probably knows all about him. But if not, you can teach us a little and we will read him when we are ready. Your comments would be welcomed in any case.

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## Goodman Brown

After reading the thread and not seeing Dimitry Gregorovitsh as a author that was being read here I decided to maybe get him some attention sort of speak but it's not really surprising because if you Google top Russian Authors he doesn't appear , still I enjoyed reading his book and maybe someone else will as well , of course at your own time and pace,,,,

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