# Reading > Forum Book Club >  Christmas 2007 Reading Poll

## Scheherazade

*Christmas only a few weeks away, it is time for us to nominate this year's holiday reading. 

* * * This year's theme : Families * * * 

Please nominate the books you would like to read

(one nomination per member, please)

by November 26th. 


Note: Only the first 10 books will be included in the poll.*

Some information on the nominated books: 

*Sons and Lovers*  by D.H Lawrence

_The Human Comedy_ by Saroyan 

*Holiday on Ice* by David Sedaris  

_The Godfather_ by Mario Puzo

_A Painted House_ by Grisham

*The Corrections*  by Jonathan Franzen

*The Christmas Mystery* by Jostein Gaarder

*  Behind the Scenes at the Museum* by Kate Atkinson

_Fathers and Sons_ by Ivan Turgenev

_The Fortunate Pilgrim_ by Mario Puzzo 

* * * * This poll will be closed on December 10th. * * *


Book Club Procedures*

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## jlb4tlb

Does the book have to deal with the christmas saeson? I am not sure as this is the first holiday season that I have been with Lit. Net.

Jeff

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## Scheherazade

Till this year, we used to pick books dealing with Christmas but since it is becoming harder to find a book on Christmas every year, this year we will choose a book which deals with the theme of 'family' (Christmas is a family time, after all  :Biggrin: ).

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## Charles Darnay

I have an inkling that this book was just done recently and if so I apologize and feel free to strike it, but I nominate:

Sons and Lovers - D.H Lawrence.


Incidentally, my exams finish early this term and I will finally have time for some reading that is not dictated by a syllabus....so I'm excited!

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## Scheherazade

Nice to see you posting again, CD!  :Smile: 

Lawrence's _Women in Love_ was one of our books recently but not _Sons and Lovers_ so we will include your nomination to our list.

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## Janine

> I have an inkling that this book was just done recently and if so I apologize and feel free to strike it, but I nominate:
> 
> Sons and Lovers - D.H Lawrence.
> 
> 
> Incidentally, my exams finish early this term and I will finally have time for some reading that is not dictated by a syllabus....so I'm excited!


Hi *Charles D,* and *Scher*, we did just (last month) discuss the book in depth and the thread is still open and active, sporadically. It, however, was not an 'official'- 'book of the month' read, so I suppose you could still nominate it for such.  :Smile:  

Just to let you know that there is a thread and a lot of good postings in there, with tons of information.

Can I nominate "The Human Comedy" - it is very much about a family and the 'ties that bind'. I think it is by Salinger, isn't it? I loved that book!

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## Scheherazade

Janine,

I am not sure _The Human Comedy_ is by Salinger. Is it the one by Saroyan you are refering to?

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## papayahed

I was going to nominate The Godfather but it seems too long for a holiday read so how about Holiday on Ice by David Sedaris, it sort of is about families? if not then Dress Your Family in Corduroy & Denim?

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## jlb4tlb

> I was going to nominate The Godfather but it seems too long for a holiday read so how about Holiday on Ice by David Sedaris, it sort of is about families? if not then Dress Your Family in Corduroy & Denim?


The Godfather was my idea also :Idea:  After all it is about Family in several different forms.

So I nominate "The Godfather," by Mario Puzo.

Jeff

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## Janine

> Janine,
> 
> I am not sure _The Human Comedy_ is by Salinger. Is it the one by Saroyan you are refering to?


Thanks, *Scheherazade,* Yes, that is correct - sorry about the mixup of name. It is by William Saroyan, I believe.

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## Poppy

My nomination would be:

John Grisham's: A Painted House

Tells the story of several families.

Poppy

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## Janine

> My nomination would be:
> 
> John Grisham's: A Painted House
> 
> Tells the story of several families.
> 
> Poppy


*Poppy,* I have this book and have been wanting to read it; I picked it up free from my library. I also found (same place) a free copy of "Skipping Christmas" by Grisham - I got a real kick out of that book; light, delightful reading and very 'heartfelt'. Two non-suspense, non-courtroom dramas by Mr. G; a bit of a departure for him. It's a good little Christmas story. The movie is ok that was based on the book, but the book is a sweet little amusing story, much better than the film.

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## bouquin

My nomination is *The Corrections*  by Jonathan Franzen. It won the National Book Award in 2001. It's the story of a family trying to get together for one last Christmas.

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## Poppy

> *Poppy,* I have this book and have been wanting to read it; I picked it up free from my library. I also found (same place) a free copy of "Skipping Christmas" by Grisham - I got a real kick out of that book; light, delightful reading and very 'heartfelt'. Two non-suspense, non-courtroom dramas by Mr. G; a bit of a departure for him. It's a good little Christmas story. The movie is ok that was based on the book, but the book is a sweet little amusing story, much better than the film.


Janine I would agree that Skipping Christmas would be another choice. I certainly did like it. And like you I found the read much better than the film. Maybe we could just nominate them together as one since both are light reads.  :Wink:

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## TheFifthElement

Have you read "The Christmas Mystery" by Jostein Gaarder? It has a family element but is primarily about Christmas. It's written in the style of an advent calendar so there's a chapter for each day on the run up to Christmas. It's a great read (I read it every year!).

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## Scheherazade

Wow, this is proving to be popular!

Nominations so far:

1. *Sons and Lovers*  by D.H Lawrence.

2. _The Human Comedy_ by Saroyan 

3. *Holiday on Ice* by David Sedaris 

4. _The Godfather_ by Mario Puzo

5. _A Painted House_ by Grisham

6. *The Corrections*  by Jonathan Franzen 


> Have you read "The Christmas Mystery" by Jostein Gaarder? It has a family element but is primarily about Christmas. It's written in the style of an advent calendar so there's a chapter for each day on the run up to Christmas. It's a great read (I read it every year!).


Hello, Fifth! Have you read the book? Does it deal with families as a main theme?

I would like to nominate *  Behind the Scenes at the Museum*by Kate Atkinson:

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## TheFifthElement

Hmm, there is a family element to the book, in that the advent calendar belongs to a small boy and they read the stories together as a family, but I'm not sure I'd say it was a main theme, more of a side theme really. Primarily it is about the story of Christmas.

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## Scheherazade

Nominations so far:

1. *Sons and Lovers*  by D.H Lawrence.

2. _The Human Comedy_ by Saroyan 

3. *Holiday on Ice* by David Sedaris 

4. _The Godfather_ by Mario Puzo

5. _A Painted House_ by Grisham

6. *The Corrections*  by Jonathan Franzen 

7. *The Christmas Mystery* by Jostein Gaarder

8. *  Behind the Scenes at the Museum* by Kate Atkinson

Last 5 days!

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## Dori

Even though I've already read this, I'll nominate *Fathers and Sons* (or Fathers and Children) by Ivan Turgenev.

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## Virgil

> Even though I've already read this, I'll nominate *Fathers and Sons* (or Fathers and Children) by Ivan Turgenev.


A very good novel. Dori, I don't think I've ever had the chance to welcome you to lit net. Welcome. I see you're well adapted to the forums and apparently enjoy this place. I found you're introduction and was surprised to see you're a guy and love hockey. You know we're out numbered here. You lit net name struck me as feminine and hockey players don't have a reputation for liking literature.  :Wink:  Unfortuantely I don't have time right now to participate in the Christmas read. I must finish Don Quixote and then on to The Aeneid.

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## Janine

_Fathers and Sons_ is a great book. I loved it and other stories, short novels by Ivan Turgenev are very good, as well.

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## Dori

> A very good novel. Dori, I don't think I've ever had the chance to welcome you to lit net. Welcome. I see you're well adapted to the forums and apparently enjoy this place. I found you're introduction and was surprised to see you're a guy and love hockey. You know we're out numbered here. You lit net name struck me as feminine and hockey players don't have a reputation for liking literature.  Unfortuantely I don't have time right now to participate in the Christmas read. I must finish Don Quixote and then on to The Aeneid.


I'm almost sure you welcomed me in the Don Quixote Reading Group thread. Thanks for the welcome anyway  :Smile:  . 

Concerning my username, think Dori the dwarf (that is, a masculine figure---even female dwarves are rather masculine), not Dori the fish (spelled Doris, if I remember correctly). I hope that clears things up a little  :Smile:  .

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## Etienne

100 Years of Solitude and The Brothers Karamazov

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## Dori

Etienne, are you nominating a book? First of all, there can only be one nomination per member and secondly, only the first ten nominations will be selected for choosing. 

(I would prefer if you stuck with The Brothers Karamazov as your nomination.  :Smile:  )

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## Virgil

> I'm almost sure you welcomed me in the Don Quixote Reading Group thread. Thanks for the welcome anyway  .


Oh yes, now I remember. Thanks.





> Concerning my username, think Dori the dwarf (that is, a masculine figure---even female dwarves are rather masculine), not Dori the fish (spelled Doris, if I remember correctly). I hope that clears things up a little  .


OK, that helps.  :Wink:

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## NickAdams

Noooooo! I'm too late. I was going to nominate Absalom, Absalom!


I'm interested in Sons and Lovers and The Brothers Karamazov, so it's not a total lost.

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## Janine

> Noooooo! I'm too late. I was going to nominate Absalom, Absalom!
> 
> 
> I'm interested in Sons and Lovers and The Brothers Karamazov, so it's not a total lost.


*Hi Nick,* How are you too late? I didn't know the nomination period was over yet. 
We just discussed "Sons and Lovers". so you might want to check out that thread. after you read the book, if you did not already; in the case of it not being chosen in this thread. I highly recommend it to you. Great read!

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## Dori

> Noooooo! I'm too late. I was going to nominate Absalom, Absalom!
> 
> 
> I'm interested in Sons and Lovers and The Brothers Karamazov, so it's not a total lost.


Actually, according to Book Club Procedures, Etienne's nominations are to be disregarded, thus leaving one final place for another nomination. And _The Brothers Karamazov_ hasn't been nominated (technically speaking) yet. 




> Nomination Limit:
> *Every member can nominate only one book to give everyone an equal chance.
> *The nominations from those who make multiple nominations will be disregarded.
> *Those who wish to cancel or change their nominations can do so during the nomination period.
> *Only members with 50+ posts can nominate books.

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## Janine

*Dori,* in this case then who will nominate _The Brother Karamazov_? We all nominated one already. Can *Etienne* come back and nominate this one book? I am a bit confused here. I never nominated before this.

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## jlb4tlb

> *Dori,* in this case then who will nominate _The Brother Karamazov_? We all nominated one already. Can *Etienne* come back and nominate this one book? I am a bit confused here. I never nominated before this.


Etienne can nominate again , just has to make sure that the post contains only one book.

Jeff

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## Scheherazade

Oh, my! This is getting exciting!  :Biggrin: 

Nominations so far:

1. *Sons and Lovers*  by D.H Lawrence.

2. _The Human Comedy_ by Saroyan 

3. *Holiday on Ice* by David Sedaris 

4. _The Godfather_ by Mario Puzo

5. _A Painted House_ by Grisham

6. *The Corrections*  by Jonathan Franzen 

7. *The Christmas Mystery* by Jostein Gaarder

8. *  Behind the Scenes at the Museum* by Kate Atkinson

9. _Fathers and Sons_ by Ivan Turgenev.

Last nomination is up for grabs, folks!

*Etienne>* one nomination per member, please!

Also, since _The Brother Karamazov_ was one of our BC readings last year, it cannot be nominated again this year.

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## Dark Muse

I would nominate The Fortunate Pilgrim by Mario Puzzo, it is the story of a family of early Italian Immigrants in America.

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## Scheherazade

We have our 10 nominations:

1. *Sons and Lovers*  by D.H Lawrence.

2. _The Human Comedy_ by Saroyan 

3. *Holiday on Ice* by David Sedaris 

4. _The Godfather_ by Mario Puzo

5. _A Painted House_ by Grisham

6. *The Corrections*  by Jonathan Franzen 

7. *The Christmas Mystery* by Jostein Gaarder

8. *  Behind the Scenes at the Museum* by Kate Atkinson

9. _Fathers and Sons_ by Ivan Turgenev.

10. _The Fortunate Pilgrim_ by Mario Puzzo 

Thank you, everyone!  :Smile: 

The voting will start later today!

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## Janine

Great - the list is complete. Can't wait to vote! Thanks, *S*

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## Scheherazade

Some information on the nominated books: 

*Sons and Lovers*  by D.H Lawrence

_The Human Comedy_ by Saroyan 

*Holiday on Ice* by David Sedaris  

_The Godfather_ by Mario Puzo

_A Painted House_ by Grisham

*The Corrections*  by Jonathan Franzen

*The Christmas Mystery* by Jostein Gaarder

*  Behind the Scenes at the Museum* by Kate Atkinson

_Fathers and Sons_ by Ivan Turgenev

_The Fortunate Pilgrim_ by Mario Puzzo 

** * * This poll will be closed on December 10th. * * **

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## Scheherazade

About _Behind the Scenes at the Museum_:


> The narrator's insistent voice and breezy delivery animates this enchanting first novel by a British writer who won one of the 1993 Ian St. James Awards for short stories. Ruby Lennox is a quirky, complex character who relates the events of her life and those of her dysfunctional family with equal parts humor, fervor and candor-starting with her moment of conception in York, England, in 1959: "I exist!" Ruby then describes the family she is to join. Her parents own a pet shop; her mother, Bunty, bitterly rues having married her philandering husband, George, and daydreams about what her life might have been. Ruby has two older sisters, willful Gillian and melancholy Patricia. Through its ambitious structure, the novel also charts five generations and more than a century of Ruby's family history, as reported in "footnotes" that follow relevant chapters. (For example, a passage about a pink glass button reveals the story of its original owner, Ruby's great-grandmother Alice, who will abandon her young family and run off with a French magician.) Ruby's richly imagined account includes both the details of daily life and the several tragic events that punctuate the family's mundane existence. Though the "footnote" entries are not quite as gripping as those rendered in Ruby's richly vernacular, energetic recitation, Atkinson's ebullient narrative style captures the troubled Lennox family with wit and poignant accuracy.


http://www.amazon.com/Behind-Scenes-...6121755&sr=1-1

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## papayahed

hmmmmm,,, which should I vote for...

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## Scheherazade

Another tie...

Read _The Godfather_ three times in various languages (not to mention the fact that I watched the movie 10+ times) and _Fathers and Sons_ attracts me as much as a week old ham sandwich made with mouldy bread and mayo past its BBD.

Please, please, please, let us try something new and different this time!

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## motherhubbard

I mind a moldy ham sandwich once in a while, but I really don't want to read the Godfather.

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## NickAdams

Now I'm late. :Bawling:  

The Human Comedy it is!

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## Janine

You know I really made a mistake. I should have voted for "Human Comedy" - that is a really good book about the love of a family and a great Christmas story at the ending. I was the one to nominate it and I failed to vote on it. You all can be mad at me if you want.....sorry....

The reason I voted for "Fathers and Sons" was because I really wanted to re-read the book and when I saw it listed I thought - this is my oportunity. Anyway, whichever wins I will be happy to participate, if I can find the time with the holidays rapidly approaching.

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## papayahed

> Please, please, please, let us try something new and different this time!



Exactly.

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## Janine

> I mind a moldy ham sandwich once in a while, but I really don't want to read the Godfather.


Well in my opinion, "The Godfather" is a little too bloody and gruesome to celebrate the Christmas season. Personally I was surprised to see it on the Christmas reading list. I would not say this, unless I felt a little ill at the fact that "Fathers and Sons" has been attacked. That book is a 'masterpiece' of literature. 




> Please, please, please, let us try something new and different this time!


*Scheherazade,* I don't mean this degragatorily at all, but could you back up this statement? I really did not understand it. I only noticed it now, when it was requoted, in the post prior to mine. I feel all books nominated would be good ones and I have to respect all the nominators in this case....to me that is only fair.

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## motherhubbard

I don't think anyone is attacking Fathers and Sons.

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## Janine

> I don't think anyone is attacking Fathers and Sons.


Well, I might have used a strong word there, but here is what was said and I am afraid I did take offense to it, considering it is a fine book.




> Fathers and Sons attracts me as much as a week old ham sandwich made with mouldy bread and mayo past its BBD.


It is true this is a personal opinion, but I don't think it should have been said until the voting was done. What if something negative was said about all the entries, I don't think that would seem fair or respectful. After the voting I think any opinions could be expressed, if people wished to do so, but now there is active voting going on. Just my own opinion. I don't want to annoy anyone but I really did not understand what was meant by "new and different". Does this mean that authors from another century should not be considered? I am miffed.

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## amalia1985

I have read almost every book of the list, here, and they are all in a class of their own, trully unique, and real gems of Literature.

I voted for _Fathers and Sons_, because I have a paricular fondness for Russian Literature, I love this novel for many reasons, but I don't want to tire you with them.

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## Janine

> I have read almost every book of the list, here, and they are all in a class of their own, trully unique, and real gems of Literature.
> 
> I voted for _Fathers and Sons_, because I have a paricular fondness for Russian Literature, I love this novel for many reasons, but I don't want to tire you with them.


Hi *Amalia,* I see you voted. I had been wondering if you were going to do the Christmas read. Wow, you have read nearly all the books on the list; that is truly impressive! I voted for "Fathers and Sons", but then I thought maybe "Human Comedy" would fit the time of year; being about a close family and the 'ties that bind' and the ending deals with Christmas specifically. "Fathers and Sons" certainly did impress me, when I read it years ago. I have never forgotten certain aspects of that fine story, plus it gave me a few chuckles throughout concerning the generation gap. This was one of my father's books and I one day resurrected it from my basement. Was I glad I did.

I think we have a number of good nominations, don't you?

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## ampoule

For some strange reason my 'fer real' bookclub, Prose and Cons, takes a break in December, so, if I may, I would love to join you. I've read quite a few of the books listed and the rest I think I will read whether they are chosen or not. I voted for the Human Comedy for selfish reasons I suppose. I spent many years in the San Joaquin Valley and that's where my parents live today.
I would like something on a lighter side for the holidays but I will be happy to ready whatever is chosen. 
I guess I should have read the rules first. I will look for them.

Fifth...thank you for the heads up on The Christmas Mystery. I'll definitely try to find that one.

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## Janine

*ampoule* - I don't see your vote in "The Human Comedy" - are you sure it went through?

Glad you are joining our reading/discussion group. It should be fun and interesting.

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## Dori

If Fathers and Sons wins, I'll be reading Russian novels for both of the book clubs which I participate in  :Biggrin:  (The House of the Dead by Fyodor Dostoevsky, my nomination, won at my other book club).

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## ampoule

Thank you Janine. I guess I didn't hit 'vote now', but now I did.  :Wink:

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## Quark

I thought _Fathers and Sons_ was a great novel, but it seemed more about generational shift and the difference between radicals and conservatives than it did about family. _The Corrections_ is a book very much about family, and the plot centers around a Christmas plan. I have to give it my vote. Besides, I like Franzen's stuff too much not to vote for it. His books are usually intelligent and charming in their own way. Well, the first two were somewhat boring, but _The Corrections_ certainly deserved the National Book Award. I hope it wins. I wish I could vote twice, though.

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## Janine

> Thank you Janine. I guess I didn't hit 'vote now', but now I did.


I have done that with posts. Glad you could vote at last.  :Thumbs Up: 




> I thought _Fathers and Sons_ was a great novel, but it seemed more about generational shift and the difference between radicals and conservatives than it did about family. _The Corrections_ is a book very much about family, and the plot centers around a Christmas plan. I have to give it my vote. Besides, I like Franzen's stuff too much not to vote for it. His books are usually intelligent and charming in their own way. Well, the first two were somewhat boring, but _The Corrections_ certainly deserved the National Book Award. I hope it wins. I wish I could vote twice, though.


*Quark,* what you say is true and now I have been actually re-thinking my choice of vote, but like you, I know I can only vote once - no cheating :Wink:  ; program won't let you anyway -*The electronic eye knows all*. :FRlol:  
I didn't know anything about the book "Corrections" - now it does sound interesting and of course, it is too soon to predict which book will win. I think I might have voted on "Human Comedy" and I gave my reasons in another post. But your book seems to center around Christmas and family and that would have been nice. It is a hard choice this time. I feel torn between different books.

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## amalia1985

I will join the discussion in any case. I voted for F&S, but I love every book in the list, and I cannot wait for us to begin!!

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## papayahed

Nobody for Holiday on Ice? :Biggrin:  

There's a crisp dollar bill for anyone that votes for it..... :FRlol:

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## bazarov

Fathers and Sons, what else?  :Smile:

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## manolia

Baz, i am thinking of voting for F&S too..but i'll do so only if i am sure that i'll find the time to participate  :Wink:  I am thinking of poor Scher..it's like we have combined forces to disappoint her  :FRlol:   :Tongue:

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## Janine

> Baz, i am thinking of voting for F&S too..but i'll do so only if i am sure that i'll find the time to participate  I am thinking of poor Scher..it's like we have combined forces to disappoint her


*manolia,* it would seem that way, but I have said nothing to anyone participating in the voting as to what to choose. It just seems we all think alike. I just laughed to myself that *Bazarov* voted for F&S; isn't his user name one of the characters in the book? 
I guess, knowing the time limitations of the holiday season, I would prefer to see a shorter read win. Otherwise, I don't see how I can particapte either fully, but I certainly will try to.

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## manolia

> *manolia,* it would seem that way, *but I have said nothing to anyone participating* in the voting as to what to choose.


Don't worry Janine i know you didn't  :Wink:  
I am just joking since we will be reading Master and Margarita for the December read  :Smile: . I don't usually vote if i don't intent to participate to a reading hence the joke  :Wink:  
Besides i only noticed the last two pages of this thread just now so i wasn't aware of the controversy.
Bazarov's nickname is from F&S (i haven't read the book but i am acquainted with its contents).

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## Janine

> Don't worry Janine i know you didn't  
> I am just joking since we will be reading Master and Margarita for the December read . I don't usually vote if i don't intent to participate to a reading hence the joke  
> Besides i only noticed the last two pages of this thread just now so i wasn't aware of the controversy.
> Bazarov's nickname is from F&S (i haven't read the book but i am acquainted with its contents).


*manolia,* I know you were just joking; just not sure others did. I read the book *F&S,* probably about 10 yrs ago, and I recall being impressed with it, at the time. I do recall that it is not a difficult read and it goes quickly enough; it is not a long book, either. I think you would enjoy it, if you could fit it in, but let me say that in this list there are other good choices, as well.  :Thumbs Up:  to all nominations, right?

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## bazarov

> Baz, i am thinking of voting for F&S too..but i'll do so only if i am sure that i'll find the time to participate  I am thinking of poor Scher..it's like we have combined forces to disappoint her


Are you afraid of ban?  :Biggrin:  

Manolia, yes; I am one of the Sons.

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## Alexei

I voted for F&S too, as you know I am feasting on the Russian literature right now, so it is exactly for my current reading list and in addition I wanted to read some of Turgenev's works for a while. I hope I will menage with it though, yesterday I found out that the books i am currently reading could be arranged in two not very large (but not very small too) piles and I am in panic right now  :Biggrin: , especially after I am starting M&M tomorrow  :Biggrin:   :Biggrin:   :Biggrin:

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## papayahed

The controversy comment caught my eye and I went back and read. I'm not sure what the problem is, this certainly isn't the first time that people have commented on nominations and probably won't be the last.

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## bazarov

Papayahed, is something wrong?

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## Janine

> Papayahed, is something wrong?


Let's just drop all that today. I don't have time or energy for it and all of it is so unimportant now, quite silly.




> I voted for F&S too, as you know I am feasting on the Russian literature right now, so it is exactly for my current reading list and in addition I wanted to read some of Turgenev's works for a while. I hope I will menage with it though, yesterday I found out that the books i am currently reading could be arranged in two not very large (but not very small too) piles and I am in panic right now , especially after I am starting M&M tomorrow


Hi *Alexei,* You are unbelievable! Now you have 2 piles of books you are currently reading. You put me to shame! So glad you may be taking part in this book discussion. I really admire your concentration. I wish I had as much dedication and apparent energy, as you do. What book is M&M?  :Confused:

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## Dori

> What book is M&M?


I'm guessing Alexei is referring to the Book of the Month, The Master and Margarita (hence M and M  :Smile:  ). It would make sense, anyway.

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## Janine

> I'm guessing Alexei is referring to the Book of the Month, The Master and Margarita (hence M and M  ). It would make sense, anyway.


Thanks, *Dori,* yes - that would make sense. :Smile:  Probably exactly what she meant.

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## Alexei

> Hi *Alexei,* You are unbelievable! Now you have 2 piles of books you are currently reading. You put me to shame! So glad you may be taking part in this book discussion. I really admire your concentration. I wish I had as much dedication and apparent energy, as you do.


Huh, I can't believe it either. I just get too impatient, I hope the next time I decide to make stunts like this someone will tell me to stop and not being foolish  :Biggrin:  I have no idea how I am going to menage with all this stuff  :Bawling:  So now I am really ashamed  :FRlol:   :FRlol:   :FRlol:  




> What book is M&M?





> I'm guessing Alexei is referring to the Book of the Month, The Master and Margarita (hence M and M  ). It would make sense, anyway.


Yes, I am sorry, I meant *The Master and Margarita*. I get used to writing/reading the title M&M in the Book Club December poll discussion. I read it a few years ago and I am impatient to reread it.

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## Shalot

Hi all

I was going to try to actually participate in this for the month of December but I wasn't sure what the book is - does it say somewhere what we've decided on? 

(I was going to try to do something on Lit Net other than post in games and blog about my cat so let me know) 

Edit: Nevermind. I see the poll doesn't close until the 9th. I was thinking the vote ended in Nov for some strange reason.  :Goof:

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## papayahed

> Hi all
> 
> I was going to try to actually participate in this for the month of December but I wasn't sure what the book is - does it say somewhere what we've decided on? 
> 
> (I was going to try to do something on Lit Net other than post in games and blog about my cat so let me know) 
> 
> Edit: Nevermind. I see the poll doesn't close until the 9th. I was thinking the vote ended in Nov for some strange reason.



The book for December is The Master and Margarita. This poll is for the Christmas read.

----------


## Janine

*Papayahed,* 

*Shalot* probably does mean the Christmas read; she voted on one of the books.

----------


## Scheherazade

> *Scheherazade,* I don't mean this degragatorily at all, but could you back up this statement? I really did not understand it.


I am not sure what "degragatorily" means, Janine, but I would like to state that I was simply expressing my unwillingness to read _F & S_ at this point: I feel like reading something more recently written, not a "classic" in its traditional sense.


> It is true this is a personal opinion, but I don't think it should have been said until the voting was done. What if something negative was said about all the entries, I don't think that would seem fair or respectful. After the voting I think any opinions could be expressed, if people wished to do so, but now there is active voting going on. Just my own opinion. I don't want to annoy anyone but I really did not understand what was meant by "new and different". Does this mean that authors from another century should not be considered? I am miffed.


As you have stated, this is your opinion; however, I am, like all the members of this Forum, entitled to my opinion as well. Having said that, I did not say that _F & S_ was not a good book; I simply said that it did not attract me (especially at this point in time). The fact that I am not keen on reading it does not mean I do not think it is a good book but even if I did think so, that would be my opinion and we would merely have to agree to disagree on the merits of this particular book.

During the book club polls, we always have (and will) discuss our choices and try to "encourage" each other to read certain books (even offer bribes!). These are, I would like to believe, very light-hearted banters and rarely affect the outcome of the polls or aim to offend anyone.

OK, now... Who feels like having some KitKat?  :Wink:

----------


## Granny5

> I am not sure what "degragatorily" means, Janine, but I would like to state that I was simply expressing my unwillingness to read _F & S_ at this point: I feel like reading something more recently written, not a "classic" in its traditional sense.As you have stated, this is your opinion; however, I am, like all the members of this Forum, entitled to my opinion as well. Having said that, I did not say that _F & S_ was not a good book; I simply said that it did not attract me (especially at this point in time). The fact that I am not keen on reading it does not mean I do not think it is a good book but even if I did think so, that would be my opinion and we would merely have to agree to disagree on the merits of this particular book.
> 
> During the book club polls, we always have (and will) discuss our choices and try to "encourage" each other to read certain books (even offer bribes!). These are, I would like to believe, very light-hearted banters and rarely affect the outcome of the polls or aim to offend anyone.
> 
> OK, now... Who feels like having some KitKat?


I wish you'd offered the KitKat before I voted. :Bawling:

----------


## Janine

> I am not sure what "degragatorily" means, Janine, but I would like to state that I was simply expressing my unwillingness to read _F & S_ at this point: I feel like reading something more recently written, not a "classic" in its traditional sense.As you have stated, this is your opinion; however, I am, like all the members of this Forum, entitled to my opinion as well. Having said that, I did not say that _F & S_ was not a good book; I simply said that it did not attract me (especially at this point in time). The fact that I am not keen on reading it does not mean I do not think it is a good book but even if I did think so, that would be my opinion and we would merely have to agree to disagree on the merits of this particular book.
> 
> During the book club polls, we always have (and will) discuss our choices and try to "encourage" each other to read certain books (even offer bribes!). These are, I would like to believe, very light-hearted banters and rarely affect the outcome of the polls or aim to offend anyone.
> 
> OK, now... Who feels like having some KitKat?


OK, no problem. Sorry, I used those words 'degratory' and I forget the other one. I probably was just feeling grumpy that day and didn't like the thought of your moldy sandwich. But your statement was pretty funny and creative; I have to admit that. I was actually going to respond with a phrase like "I don't want to read a book that is a 'human blood-bath' at Christmastime", (that would merely be my opinion), but I really thought I was not allowed to say that, so I changed it. Seems I would have been more justified from what you explained above. 
I didn't know about 'bribes' were allowed either; seems strange to me, but I will keep that in-mind from now on. 
I guess I still have a little difficulty with your statement and your wording of the phrase - "let us choose something new and different". I underlined 'let us' not you. I am not sure they were your exact words, but I know they were close to that. It sounds like a command or at least a strong suggestion; I guess that is allowed though. 

*Scheherazade,* when does the offical voting end? Some one mentioned the 9th, someone else mentioned the 10th to me. It will be fun to get underway with the novel.

----------


## Scheherazade

> OK, no problem. Sorry, I used those words 'degratory' and I forget the other one. I probably was just feeling grumpy that day and didn't like the thought of your moldy sandwich. But your statement was pretty funny and creative; I have to admit that. I was actually going to respond with a phrase like "I don't want to read a book that is a 'human blood-bath' at Christmastime", (that would merely be my opinion), but I really thought I was not allowed to say that, so I changed it. Seems I would have been more justified from what you explained above. 
> I didn't know about 'bribes' were allowed either; seems strange to me, but I will keep that in-mind from now on. 
> I guess I still have a little difficulty with your statement and your wording of the phrase - "let us choose something new and different". I underlined 'let us' not you. I am not sure they were your exact words, but I know they were close to that. It sounds like a command or at least a strong suggestion; I guess that is allowed though.


Of course, English is my second language and I often make mistakes but I have always thought that "let us", used in this sense, expresses a suggestion and a wish rather than a command. Eg, "Let us have a cup of tea." or "Let us watch a movie tonight." When I said (quoting myself directly) "Please, please, please, let us try something new and different this time!", I was simply expressing my desire not to read another classic, another Russian book (since we are reading Bulgakov in December as well).


> *Scheherazade,* when does the offical voting end? Some one mentioned the 9th, someone else mentioned the 10th to me. It will be fun to get underway with the novel.


It depends in which part of the world you are but we have another 9 days to vote.

PS: What does "degratory" mean? I cannot seem to be able to find it in Cambridge online.

----------


## Janine

> Of course, English is my second language and I often make mistakes but I have always thought that "let us", used in this sense, expresses a suggestion and a wish rather than a command. Eg, "Let us have a cup of tea." or "Let us watch a movie tonight." When I said (quoting myself directly) "Please, please, please, let us try something new and different this time!", I was simply expressing my desire not to read another classic, another Russian book (since we are reading Bulgakov in December as well).It depends in which part of the world you are but we have another 9 days to vote.


Ok, I will buy that. Perfectly stated. It does sound more like a 'suggestion' or 'wish', you are right. I can't really explain why I was thinking of 'command', so I will just drop it...hardly seems important now...probably was not important then, either. Let 'peace' reign. 
Sorry, you are reading another Russian author presently. Thanks for the voting time update.

*Scheherazade,* I never knew English was your second language - you write so fluidly. That is wonderful. I always admire the people who learn several languages and really master them. I have enough trouble with proper English!





> PS: What does "degratory" mean? I cannot seem to be able to find it in Cambridge online.


That is because I spelled it wrong  :Wink:  ...I am a terrible speller! I would rather we just drop that, too, if it is ok with you. I don't think I was feeling well the other day, so maybe I was being too tiresome or irritable. I seriously now think your original 'moldy sandwich' statement is funny and clever. You just stated your opinion, as it came to you, spontaneously.

----------


## grace86

I voted Fathers and Sons. I have always wanted to read this novel!! School will be out and I will yet again be on a plane for the holiday so I am hopeful I will be able to participate.

----------


## Scheherazade

Oh, you guys...  :Frown: 

Better go and order _F & S_.

----------


## papayahed

> Oh, you guys... 
> 
> Better go and order _F & S_.


We still have 5 days....I'm holding out that everybody is going to rush the polls for "Holiday on Ice" in the last hours :Biggrin:  .

----------


## Scheherazade

I have ordered _F & S_ but since I am finishing the book I have been reading, I will read _Behind the Scenes at the Museum_  meanwhile and that's that! :-/

----------


## LadyWentworth

I was thinking about participating in the LitNet book club and decided to do so this month.

I chose Fathers and Sons for a couple of reasons. 

1) It was a story that I was already interested in reading.

2) I happen to own the book. So, I now have an excuse to _finally_ read it.

3) The book club that I belong to won't be meeting in December. So, the lack of that book leaves it open for me to read this one.  :Smile:

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## Janine

Hi *Lady Wentworth,* I think you will find the book very enjoyable and interesting. Oddly enough, one day years ago, I was in my basement and happened to notice several old books of my father's on a shelf. I dusted this one off and brought it upstairs and read it and loved it; admittedly I had never heard of the author before, but knew the books to be classics. Then I recall reading a few short novellas or short stories by the same author. I like the way he writes and I think you will find this book very touching, thoughful and even amusing at times. It is a very human story. 

Glad you can participate. You are a real asset to this thread!

----------


## Virgil

> Oh, you guys... 
> 
> Better go and order _F & S_.


Scher, this is not quite like other Russian novels, so you may like it. But it is not a very Christmas-y book. I won't be joining unfortunately. I'm still trying to finish Don Quixote. And then I promised quasimodo I would pull together a group to read The Aeneid.

----------


## Scheherazade

> Scher, this is not quite like other Russian novels, so you may like it. But it is not a very Christmas-y book. I won't be joining unfortunately. I'm still trying to finish Don Quixote. And then I promised quasimodo I would pull together a group to read The Aeneid.


Hey, that sounds like a great idea! If I weren't still ploughing through the Big Read list, I would join you.

Which reminds me... This year we should give the Shakespeare Reading Group another try and see if we can get anyone interested.

----------


## Dori

> And then I promised quasimodo I would pull together a group to read The Aeneid.


I'd be interested. I have it in audiobook format, though.

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## bazarov

> Scher, this is not quite like other Russian novels, so you may like it.


Agree, even my friend, who is a soccer player; read that book twice which is really fascinating!

----------


## Virgil

> Hey, that sounds like a great idea! If I weren't still ploughing through the Big Read list, I would join you.
> 
> Which reminds me... This year we should give the Shakespeare Reading Group another try and see if we can get anyone interested.


I really feel guilty about the Shakespeare Reading group not taking off. I would love to go back to it. It's just we have so many things going on here that I can't participate in them all. 

As to Tugenev, the author of Fathers and Sons, he writes more like a Continental European than a Russian novelist.

----------


## Janine

> I really feel guilty about the Shakespeare Reading group not taking off. I would love to go back to it. It's just we have so many things going on here that I can't participate in them all.


Yes, I felt bad too, but the first plays were not at all to my liking. I hated "Titus A" - too bloody for me and that was when I bailed out. But then there were so many other threads and books and short stories and poems I was interested in disgussing. I kept waiting for "Titus" to get over with, so the next play would be picked, but I never saw another one listed or announced, so I just gave up on it. By then I was into the other things I mentioned.





> As to Tugenev, the author of Fathers and Sons, he writes more like a Continental European than a Russian novelist.


*Virgil,* I never thought of it but it is true, I think. He seemed to be much different than other Russian authors I had read. He seemed way less severe. I read his "First Love" - think that was the name of the long short story or novella; I liked it very much. Somewhere around here, I have a book of his short fiction, which I liked very much.

*Revision note:* Wow, I just found out "First Love" is on this site - the whole text. It is apparently a novel. I loved this book! I must read it again someday.

----------


## manolia

> Agree, *even my friend, who is a soccer player*; read that book twice which is really fascinating!


Baz, what do you mean by that?  :FRlol:  ..stereotypes  :Tongue:

----------


## Dori

> Agree, even my friend, who is a soccer player; read that book twice which is really fascinating!


I'm a soccer player.  :Tongue:  And a hockey player. 

Yes, Tolstoy and Dostoevsky are much deeper than Turgenev, at least in my experience. However, he's still a great novelist in my eyes. I look forward to reading his Fathers and Sons again.

----------


## Virgil

> I'm a soccer player.  And a hockey player. 
> 
> Yes, Tolstoy and Dostoevsky are much deeper than Turgenev, at least in my experience. However, he's still a great novelist in my eyes. I look forward to reading his Fathers and Sons again.


I don't what you mean by deeper, Fathers and Sons is pretty deep for me. What I meant was that Turgenev does not feel he has to put detail on top of endless detail like Tolstoy and Dostoevsky. Turgenev crystalizes the scenes so that one scene suggests everything. From that point of view Turgenev is actually the better craftsman and artist.

----------


## Scheherazade

Going once...

----------


## Dori

> I don't what you man by deeper, Fathers and Sons is pretty deep for me. What I meant was that Turgenev does not feel he has to put detail on top of endless detail like Tolstoy and Dostoevsky. Turgenev crystalizes the scenes so that one scene suggests everything. From that point of view Turgenev is actually the better craftsman and artist.


What I meant was that when I read Dostoevsky and, to a lesser extent Tolstoy, it makes me think a lot more than when I read Turgenev's _Fathers and Sons_. Maybe I should read a bit more closely this time around.

----------


## Janine

> What I meant was that when I read Dostoevsky and, to a lesser extent Tolstoy, it makes me think a lot more than when I read Turgenev's _Fathers and Sons_. Maybe I should read a bit more closely this time around.


*Dori,* I think the other two Russian novelists, you mention, might be a bit more layered, but I think that Tyrgenev comes directly to the point and wastes less time with the details, that is charactersistic of D's and T's works. This does not make one more thought-provoking than the other, in my opinion, but the styles are quite different. I think *Virgil* has been trying to point out to everyone, that they book is not as long and drawn out as some of the Russian authors we are used to reading. That is not a drawback or an advantage, just an observation of the difference in the authors. Therefore, those who might 'moan' at the mere thought of reading another Russian novelist, might consider that this novelist is something quite different, in his approach. Personally, I found his book and the ending quite thought-provoking and I pondered it long after I finished the book. Second readings always reveal so much more, than we apprehended on the first reading. I am anxious too, to re-read this novel, since I read it so many years back, and I am sure I will relate to it, in a much different way, in my present life.

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## Janine

12:08Am - I better dig my old 'F&S's' book out of my bookshelf and dust it off and start reading tonight.

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## bazarov

> Baz, what do you mean by that?  ..stereotypes





> I'm a soccer player.  And a hockey player.


What? :FRlol:  An average soccer player is very dumb; it's maybe a stereotype to you but it's true to me. At least from players I know and things I hear.

Dori, congratulations! Mens sana in corpore sano!  :Biggrin:

----------


## Scheherazade

Going twice...

----------


## Dori

I suppose I'll break out the ol' paperback. In just over five hours I'll be reading three pieces of Russian literature: Fathers and Sons, Hadji Murad, and The House of the Dead (Turgenev, Tolstoy, and Dostoevsky, respectively).  :Smile: 




> What? An average soccer player is very dumb; it's maybe a stereotype to you but it's true to me. At least from players I know and things I hear.


I might agree with you there. Most of the players on my team are dumb (or stupid). 




> Dori, congratulations! Mens sana in corpore sano!


What?

----------


## Janine

> I suppose I'll break out the ol' paperback. In just over five hours I'll be reading three pieces of Russian literature: Fathers and Sons, Hadji Murad, and The House of the Dead (Turgenev, Tolstoy, and Dostoevsky, respectively).


Wow, quite an achievement - well, at least you will be in somewhat the same mind-set being in the same country and atmosphere.




> I might agree with you there. Most of the players on my team are dumb (or stupid).


Maybe because they get hit in the head so often with the ball (?)





> What?


*Dori* - a better statement to *bazarov* might have been "What? duh....

Yeah....*Baz*....what does "Mens sans in corpore sano mean".... anyway? 

I don't play soccer, but I never took latin...duh

----------


## Dori

> Wow, quite an achievement - well, at least you will be in somewhat the same mind-set being in the same country and atmosphere.


I've been in this mindset for a while. It's not that big of a deal; all three of them are short in length. I'll probably finish reading Hadji Murad as I start Fathers and Sons. I've read the beginning of The House of the Dead, but I paused to allow the members of my other book club to catch up. 




> Maybe because they get hit in the head so often with the ball (?)


If that was the case, I would be as dumb as a box of rocks.  :FRlol: 


I posted a picture of me playing soccer (in case anyone has any doubts): here it is.

----------


## Janine

> I've been in this mindset for a while. It's not that big of a deal; all three of them are short in length. I'll probably finish reading Hadji Murad as I start Fathers and Sons. I've read the beginning of The House of the Dead, but I paused to allow the members of my other book club to catch up.


*Dori,* those are all good books, no doubt; you seem to have fine taste in literature. Do you read fast? Glad they are all short - that is a bonus. I found my "F&S's" book last night and it is only about 350 pages and the type is large with a lot of dialogue so it should go quickly - good for a Christmas read.




> If that was the case, I would be as dumb as a box of rocks.


 :FRlol:  




> I posted a picture of me playing soccer (in case anyone has any doubts): here it is.


Great photo, *Dori!* - real action shot! You do look like you are a bonified player - I don't think you could fake a shot like that. Keep your head clear of those 'heavy' killer balls!  :Wink:  My brother-in-law was a soccer player and he was very smart. Also a good friend of mine from HS played soccer and was even on an impressive college team; she was a brain; so maybe it is just some soccer players that are dumb.

----------


## Dori

> *Dori,* those are all good books, no doubt; you seem to have fine taste in literature. Do you read fast? Glad they are all short - that is a bonus. I found my "F&S's" book last night and it is only about 350 pages and the type is large with a lot of dialogue so it should go quickly - good for a Christmas read.


Thanks for the compliment.  :Smile:  I probably read at an average speed. Today, school was closed due to the ice storm we had last night. Extra time for reading! My F&S book is only 200 pages long. 




> Great photo, *Dori!* - real action shot! You do look like you are a bonified player - I don't think you could fake a shot like that. Keep your head clear of those 'heavy' killer balls!  My brother-in-law was a soccer player and he was very smart. Also a good friend of mine from HS played soccer and was even on an impressive college team; she was a brain; so maybe it is just some soccer players that are dumb.


Thanks. I don't know how my grandma (of all people!) snapped that shot of me. Of course, it's framed and hung on the wall at her house.  :Blush:

----------


## Janine

> Thanks for the compliment.  I probably read at an average speed. Today, school was closed due to the ice storm we had last night. Extra time for reading! My F&S book is only 200 pages long.


*Dori,* gee, I think I like your translation better - it is shorter. Maybe mine has bigger type. It did not seem like a very long book to me when I first read it. I know it goes along quickly and if I remember correctly at the end of each chapter this novelist keeps you hanging and spurs you onto the next chapter to see what will happen next. You get kind of 'hooked' and then can't put the book down.




> Thanks. I don't know how my grandma (of all people!) snapped that shot of me. Of course, it's framed and hung on the wall at her house.


Yes, sounds exactly like a grandma, doesn't it? I am expecting my first grandchild in the spring. I know I will hang many photos of him/her everywhere. If I have a grandson, hope he is as cute as you (surely you are blushing  :Blush:  now). Grannie's have that effect - they like to dote.  :Wink:  My grandchild will probably be a runner like my son.

----------


## Dori

> *Dori,* gee, I think I like your translation better - it is shorter. Maybe mine has bigger type. It did not seem like a very long book to me when I first read it. I know it goes along quickly and if I remember correctly at the end of each chapter this novelist keeps you hanging and spurs you onto the next chapter to see what will happen next. You get kind of 'hooked' and then can't put the book down.


I own the Barnes and Nobles classics edition. The type looks average, perhaps smaller. The book measures 8" x 5.25". The translation is done by Constance Garnett who seems to have a bad reputation, at least from what I've seen. I like her as a translator though. However, I can't justifiy this because I haven't put the time into comparing translations. 




> Yes, sounds exactly like a grandma, doesn't it? I am expecting my first grandchild in the spring. I know I will hang many photos of him/her everywhere. If I have a grandson, hope he is as cute as you (surely you are blushing  now). Grannie's have that effect - they like to dote.  My grandchild will probably be a runner like my son.


 :Blush: 

One hour remaining...

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## Scheherazade

I wonder which book will win.

----------


## Janine

> One hour remaining...


Yep, one 'short' hour, or 'long', depending on your point of view. 
I have the hardback book - it is old, was my father's; printed in 1942 and guess what, *Dori?* It also was translated by Constance Garnett...that is strange, but fortunate for me. Here, I was thinking I might have a totally outdated translation, but guess she holds to this day, although you say she is rated not that great. I found no fault in it first time around. I think the type is a little larger in a hardbound edition. Is the searchable text available here on this site? Although I don't like reading books online.

 :Wink:  I see I made you blush  :Blush:  -  :FRlol:

----------


## papayahed

> I wonder which book will win.


I'm sure the masses of "holiday on ice" supporters will start voting any second now.....

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## Janine

Ring that bell, Santa Snoopy, and maybe they will come!

----------


## papayahed

> Ring that bell, Santa Snoopy, and maybe they will come!


I think I need a bigger bell!!!! :FRlol:   :FRlol:

----------


## Janine

:FRlol:  It is a little puny, but it might let out a big blast, coming from SS!  :FRlol:

----------


## Dori

> Yep, one 'short' hour, or 'long', depending on your point of view. 
> I have the hardback book - it is old, was my father's; printed in 1942 and guess what, *Dori?* It also was translated by Constance Garnett...that is strange, but fortunate for me. Here, I was thinking I might have a totally outdated translation, but guess she holds to this day, although you say she is rated not that great. I found no fault in it first time around. I think the type is a little larger in a hardbound edition. Is the searchable text available here on this site? Although I don't like reading books online.


I figured you might also have Garnett. She is fairly common in Russian literature (I own Fathers and Sons, The House of the Dead, Poor Folk, The Idiot, The Brothers Karamazov, War and Peace, and several other stories by Dostoevsky all translated by Garnett). Here's some more information concerning her: Constance Garnett. 

And yes, there is a text of Fathers and Sons available on this site. It can be found here. It has a different translator, Richard Hare. 




> Yep, I see I made you blush  -


 :Biggrin:  




> I'm sure the masses of "holiday on ice" supporters will start voting any second now.....





> Ring that bell, Santa Snoopy, and maybe they will come!





> I think I need a bigger bell!!!!


 :FRlol: 

It's almost time!

----------


## Nightshade

Ok already read first 4 chapters on the train.... after raiding the uni library and discoviring their woefully small world literature section (891. if anyone is interested)

----------


## bazarov

Dori and Janine, am I surprised! Even my soccer friend knows the meaning! :FRlol:   :FRlol:  
Diru, I thought you're female :Tongue:

----------


## Dori

> Diru, I thought you're female


Diru? Do you mean Dori? 

I'm a guy, for the hundredth time!  :Tongue:  




> Dori and Janine, am I surprised! Even my soccer friend knows the meaning!


What is the meaning?  :Confused:

----------


## Janine

> Diru? Do you mean Dori? 
> 
> I'm a guy, for the hundredth time!  
> 
> 
> 
> What is the meaning?


Yeah, poor *Dori* he is a guy; *Dori* can be a guy name afterall! I defend you, *Dori*....it is a very interesting name. :Thumbs Up:  

and *Baz*, yeah I don't play soccer so what is the meaning??? I have enough trouble with English and English is my native tongue.  :Biggrin:

----------


## Dori

> Yeah, poor *Dori* he is a guy; *Dori* can be a guy name afterall! I defend you, *Dori*....it is a very interesting name.


Thanks, Janine. Dori was the name of one of the dwarves in Tolkien's _The Hobbit_. I've never had so much trouble with this username (with all the forums which I am a member).

----------


## Janine

> Thanks, Janine. Dori was the name of one of the dwarves in Tolkien's _The Hobbit_. I've never had so much trouble with this username (with all the forums which I am a member).


How funny! and you probably have a super masculine real name...Sorry everyone on here thinks you are a girl and you do play soccer. Maybe you could alter your profile to suggest a another really guy thing you do.  :Wink:

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## Dori

> How funny! and you probably have a super masculine real name...Sorry everyone on here thinks you are a girl and you do play soccer. Maybe you could alter your profile to suggest a another really guy thing you do.


Is the name Patrick super masculine? I will try altering my profile.

EDIT: I edited my profile. The title under my username now says "A [Male] Hugoist" and in the biography section of my profile, I wrote "I'm a guy, despite what seems to be a somewhat feminine username."  :Tongue:  

Hopefully that's enough.

----------


## grace86

Haha *Dori* and *Janine* you two make me laugh!

I will pick up Fathers and Sons from the library this week when I take back all the Islam and Shakespeare stuff I borrowed for class! Looks like the reads for break will be interesting. Glad this is a somewhat shorter novel...however...it is Russian  :Wink:

----------


## Quark

When we start talking about the story are we going to do it on this thread, or should we start another?

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## Janine

> Is the name Patrick super masculine? I will try altering my profile.


Patrick is a very nice name; good Irish name... I find it masculine...I don't know any women named Patrick, do you? My son and his wife have a boy name picked out I don't like. Think I will ask them about Patrick. Dori (Patrick), can I adopt you as a grandson?  :FRlol:  How funny you did alter your profile.....





> EDIT: I edited my profile. The title under my username now says "A [Male] Hugoist" and in the biography section of my profile, I wrote "I'm a guy, despite what seems to be a somewhat feminine username."  
> 
> Hopefully that's enough.


 :FRlol:   :FRlol:   :FRlol:  I sure hope it is enough. Poor Dori.

Glad now I just used my 'real' name, to begin with. I am so forgetful, I might even forget what my user name is someday, so this is simplier for me in the long-run. Also, I don't think there are any male "Janine's" do you? :Wink:

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## downing

Janine and Dori, Mens sana in corpore sano (the Latin quote Baz was referring to) means ''a healthy brain in a healthy body'' and it is a very well-known quote over here, not just for people who know Latin, but also for regular people, because the quote is many times told in traslation(I often hear it in Romanian, I do not know about Croatian...how is it Baz?). The quote referrs to the importance of making sport (see soccer episode  :Smile:  ), which helps you to have a healthy brain, also.Hope I explained OK, Baz  :Biggrin:

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## bazarov

Playing soccer makes your body healthy and reading books makes your brain smart.  :Smile:  
Hah, what could we expect from Downing? :FRlol:  Bravo!!!

On Croatian( if you insist) is: Zdrav duh u zdravom tijelu!

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## Janine

> Playing soccer makes your body healthy and reading books makes your brain smart.  
> Hah, what could we expect from Downing? Bravo!!!
> 
> On Croatian( if you insist) is: Zdrav duh u zdravom tijelu!


Great things, no doubt, her swimming exercising must make her smarter!  :Wink: 


My own exercising is typing - my hands sure do get stronge!

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## Dori

Thanks, Downing, for clearing things up. I still haven't ever heard anyone (except you, Baz) say that before. 




> Patrick is a very nice name; good Irish name... I find it masculine...I don't know any women named Patrick, do you? My son and his wife have a boy name picked out I don't like. Think I will ask them about Patrick. Dori (Patrick), can I adopt you as a grandson?  How funny you did alter your profile.....


 :Biggrin:  Sure, you can adopt me! (That means more Christmas presents!!  :FRlol:  ) Oh, and I am part Irish. And no, I don't know any women named Patrick.  :Tongue:  




> Glad now I just used my 'real' name, to begin with. I am so forgetful, I might even forget what my user name is someday, so this is simplier for me in the long-run. Also, I don't think there are any male "Janine's" do you?


 :FRlol:  No, I haven't heard of (nor seen) any male Janine's. In fact, you're the only Janine I know.

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## Janine

> Thanks, Downing, for clearing things up. I still haven't ever heard anyone (except you, Baz) say that before.


Downing, thanks to you for clearing that up. I had heard of it but usually just skip past it without knowing exactly what it means. Thanks again, D, you can be our interpreter! 





> Sure, you can adopt me! (That means more Christmas presents!!  ) Oh, and I am part Irish. And no, I don't know any women named Patrick.


Sure that would be great, *Dory* - I seem to have a lot of 'adoptive' 'grand-daugher's now and a grandson would be cool...and a half Irish one, as well....join the gang! My son is half Irish, myself being English/Scottish by family genes. 
Awww, so sorry... no presents this year. I have to save up for the new baby - my first grand-child. I bet your real grandma will indulge you though  :Wink:  and you will get a particularly large Christmas stocking filled with goodies! 





> No, I haven't heard of (nor seen) any male Janine's. In fact, you're the only Janine I know.


How 'bout that! My name was a 'rarity' when I was born, many moons ago, but now there are a lot of kids being named Janine, and they are all female that I know of. :Wink:

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## Dori

> Sure that would be great, *Dory* - I seem to have a lot of 'adoptive' 'grand-daugher's now and a grandson would be cool...and a half Irish one, as well....join the gang! My son is half Irish, myself being English/Scottish by family genes. 
> Awww, so sorry... no presents this year. I have to save up for the new baby - my first grand-child. I bet your real grandma will indulge you though  and you will get a particularly large Christmas stocking filled with goodies!


Yes, I will be plenty spoiled by the time Christmas is over. I have more grandparents than usual due to my Mom's divorce and her remarrying. Also one of my grandfathers divorced my grandma, so I get two individual presents, rather than one communal present. After the small presents from my aunts and uncles, I get loads from my parents. Too much, perhaps. 

Now everyone knows my family history...  :Tongue:

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## grace86

I borrowed Fathers and Sons from the library today!!!

Speaking of spoiled for Christmas...my best friend just bought me a hardcover Everyman's edition of my favorite book (so far it still remains my #1), Crime and Punishment!!!!! But I don't get it until Christmas!  :Bawling:

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## Janine

> Yes, I will be plenty spoiled by the time Christmas is over. I have more grandparents than usual due to my Mom's divorce and her remarrying. Also one of my grandfathers divorced my grandma, so I get two individual presents, rather than one communal present. After the small presents from my aunts and uncles, I get loads from my parents. Too much, perhaps.


*Dori,* I would think so - lucky you. Well, you just might get a nice cyberspace gift from me but I can't compete against all these grandparents. :FRlol:  




> Now everyone knows my family history...


I was thinking the same thing. I hope you come out ok... :Wink: 




> I borrowed Fathers and Sons from the library today!!!
> 
> Speaking of spoiled for Christmas...my best friend just bought me a hardcover Everyman's edition of my favorite book (so far it still remains my #1), Crime and Punishment!!!!! But I don't get it until Christmas!


Good deal, *Grace,* glad it was available in your library. By the way, I started reading it last night - got to chapter 5 I think since they are so fast and short little chapters. 
Wow, what a nice gift from your friend! No peeking until Christmas morning. :Wink: 


*sigh* wish someone would spoil me *sigh*.....

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## Dori

> I borrowed Fathers and Sons from the library today!!!
> 
> Speaking of spoiled for Christmas...my best friend just bought me a hardcover Everyman's edition of my favorite book (so far it still remains my #1), Crime and Punishment!!!!! But I don't get it until Christmas!


If only those who spoiled me bought such wonderful presents...  :Frown:  All I get are gift cards to Barnes and Nobles (and/or money). 




> Well, you just might get a nice cyberspace gift from me but I can't compete against all these grandparents.


You're probably right.  :Biggrin:  My parents can't even compete.

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## Janine

> If only those who spoiled me bought such wonderful presents...  All I get are gift cards to Barnes and Nobles (and/or money).


What?! *Dori,* you ungrateful little brat! Money cards to B&N are the best or just plain money - who can argue with that one. This way you get to shop at your heart's content and pick out whatever books you want the most. One year my sister gave me money to spend on Amazon - I had a grand time. I think this year she is going to give me the same, which doesn't make me one bit unhappy.




> You're probably right.  My parents can't even compete.


Hahaha - I do think that an understatement! I imagine they spoil you rotten. I will have to come up with something interesting for you in cyberspace, now that I have adopted you, cyberspace-speaking-wise. :FRlol:  something like that....?..... :Wink:

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## Dori

> What?! *Dori,* you ungrateful little brat! Money cards to B&N are the best or just plain money - who can argue with that one. This way you get to shop at your heart's content and pick out whatever books you want the most. One year my sister gave me money to spend on Amazon - I had a grand time. I think this year she is going to give me the same, which doesn't make me one bit unhappy.


I would prefer someone to put an effort into buying me a present. If someone bought me a very nice hardcover version of my favorite book, I would be ten times happier than if they were to give me a $50 bill (even though the $50 bill is probably worth more money-wise). 




> Hahaha - I do think that an understatement! I imagine they spoil you rotten. I will have to come up with something interesting for you in cyberspace, now that I have adopted you, cyberspace-speaking-wise. something like that....?.....


Yes, that was an understatement. Besides, my parents spoil me all year, not just occasionally.  :Wink:

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## Janine

> I would prefer someone to put an effort into buying me a present. If someone bought me a very nice hardcover version of my favorite book, I would be ten times happier than if they were to give me a $50bill (even though the $50 bill is probably worth more money-wise).


Poor *Dori*  :Bawling:  ....but seriously, *Dori,* I do grasp your meaning here and I agree because I have stronge feelings that Christmas is not anything like it used to be, when I was younger. Then it was all about 'surprise' and making a person 'happy', but now it seems to have narrowed down to how much one can get or give to another person in the form of the almighty dollar! I do abhor it all so - the commericalism. I think that if we could get back to the simple idea of - 'it is the thought that counts, not the gift', then this world would be a kinder and gentler place. We really do forget that Christmas is a time of 'magic' and 'surprise', so I can see how thrilling it would be to find your friend or family 'intune' with what you really like or enjoy and if they were to give you a special personal gift, from a little imagination on their part; one that you would cherish always. 
I have a book of poetry my mother gave me, when I was younger and I thought that one of my very nicest gifts ever. Another time a friend who found out I liked to draw and sketch ballet dancers, gave me a figurine - very lovely. I once got a drawing board which, was right up my alley and I cherish it to this day. So I really can see you point. You must be sensitive and sentimental which is nice to find in a person these days.







> ... that was an understatement. Besides, my parents spoil me all year, not just occasionally.


Well, that is nice. I would rather get gifts when they are not expected than now at Christmas when it becomes a requirement. I don't think that is the true spirit of giving, do you?

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## Dori

> Poor *Dori*  ....but seriously, *Dori,* I do grasp your meaning here and I agree because I have stronge feelings that Christmas is not anything like it used to be, when I was younger. Then it was all about 'surprise' and making a person 'happy', but now it seems to have narrowed down to how much one can get or give to another person in the form of the almighty dollar! I do abhor it all so - the commericalism. I think that if we could get back to the simple idea of - 'it is the thought that counts, not the gift', then this world would be a kinder and gentler place. We really do forget that Christmas is a time of 'magic' and 'surprise', so I can see how thrilling it would be to find your friend or family 'intune' with what you really like or enjoy and if they were to give you a special personal gift, from a little imagination on their part; one that you would cherish always.


My thoughts exactly. 




> Well, that is nice. I would rather get gifts when they are not expected than now at Christmas when it becomes a requirement. I don't think that is the true spirit of giving, do you?


I agree. Not too long ago, the History Book Club sent me the book _1776_ (the Illustrate Version) because I didn't return a notice that was supposed to tell them not to send it. I asked my mom what to do with it and she said I could keep it and that she would pay for it (this wasn't a cheap book, it cost her $40). I was very happy. And I love it when my mom picks up books that are unwanted by libraries.  :Smile:

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## Janine

> My thoughts exactly.


*Dori,* see you do have a sentimental side...I knew it!  :Wink:  I can understand that and it is sometimes nice to just get this small gift that can be 'personal' and not something necessarily costing a lot of money. I think the best gifts come from the 'heart' and I find things like inscribed books or thoughtful ideas like special CD's one would cherish, or something one collects, or even homemade gifts are a nice way of sharing and understanding what pleases another person. These are usually the best gifts of all because they are 'meaningful'.





> I agree. Not too long ago, the History Book Club sent me the book _1776_ (the Illustrate Version) because I didn't return a notice that was supposed to tell them not to send it. I asked my mom what to do with it and she said I could keep it and that she would pay for it (this wasn't a cheap book, it cost her $40). I was very happy. And I love it when my mom picks up books that are unwanted by libraries.


Wow, you have a nice mother....that is great. I am like your mother, in that I also pick up many a book at my library, in the free give-away section. I often get these for my friends as well, if it be something I know they would like. See, it does not take a lot of money to please another person. I think freshly picked home grown flowers, can sometimes be nicer, than buying an expensive bouquet at a florist. Using that as an analogy.  :Wink:

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## Dori

> *Dori,* see you do have a sentimental side...I knew it!


Perhaps...  :Tongue:  

I have too many sides too count, it seems.

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## Janine

> Perhaps...  
> 
> I have too many sides too count, it seems.


Oh, a split personality like me. :FRlol:  Pisces - the two fishes swimming in different directions. Your B-day is not in Feb, is it?  :Wink:

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## Dori

> Oh, a split personality like me. Pisces - the two fishes swimming in different directions. Your B-day is not in Feb, is it?


Nope, it's in May. I'm a Gemini.

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## Janine

> Nope, it's in May. I'm a Gemini.


Well that figures - my sister is a Gemini, early June one ...they are really smart! They are too smart for their own good sometimes. But beware - it is a dual sign....thus your confusion on who your relate to in the F&S discussion. :FRlol: 
Maybe you are closer to Taurus...you seem more like a Taurus to me. that would make you a dual sign and a double maze of contradictions... :Wink:  or you might choose to call it in a better sense - 'personality flexibility'.  :Biggrin:

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## Scheherazade

This is officially the longest poll thread we have had, I believe, which has carried on even after the poll's over! 

 :Biggrin:

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## bazarov

And it's quite off topic...

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## Dori

> Well that figures - my sister is a Gemini, early June one ...they are really smart! They are too smart for their own good sometimes. But beware - it is a dual sign....thus your confusion on who your relate to in the F&S discussion.
> Maybe you are closer to Taurus...you seem more like a Taurus to me. that would make you a dual sign and a double maze of contradictions... or you might choose to call it in a better sense - 'personality flexibility'.


The wierd thing is that I have a twin brother (identitical). Whatever I'm not, he is. I was reading about Taurus and Gemini and I suppose I'm a little bit of both. However, I think I'm more Gemini. I found a little bit of info on Gemini and Taurus that fits me:

Gemini



> ...thirsty for knowledge and new experiences. Terminally curious and sometimes even mischievous, Geminis are multi-faceted souls who enjoy knowing a little bit of everything but generally not too much about one particular subject.


Taurus



> Their feelings, fears and desires often run far deeper than anyone around them would guess. Like the butterfly that chooses to remain hidden in its cocoon until it is ready and prepared to emerge, so the true Taurean spirit remains hidden behind a veneer of day-to-day activities. That's why Taureans are sometimes regarded as snobby, withdrawn, boring, or even sulky.
> 
> In love, Taureans are regarded as extremely sensual beings. An earth sign, they deal well with the personal, physical senses and consequently all the pleasures associated with what they can see, touch, smell and taste, add up to a special delight to them. Often nature and pet lovers, Taureans are closely associated with all things off the earth and nature.


That's me in a nutshell.  :Smile:  




> This is officially the longest poll thread we have had, I believe, which carried on even after the poll is over!


w00t!  :Biggrin:

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## Janine

> And it's quite off topic...


*bazarov*, Well, considering we have the other serious discussion thread on F&S, it all seems pretty harmless to me, if we are......quite off topic... :Wink:  

You know, *bazarov*, that sounds like something Bazarov, from "Fathers and Sons" would say.  :FRlol: 


Originally Posted by Scheherazade 



> This is officially the longest poll thread we have had, I believe, which carried on even after the poll is over!


Can we receive a prize for keeping it going this long....?  :FRlol: 




> The wierd thing is that I have a twin brother (identitical). Whatever I'm not, he is. I was reading about Taurus and Gemini and I suppose I'm a little bit of both. However, I think I'm more Gemini. I found a little bit of info on Gemini and Taurus that fits me:


Twin, how interesting....so does he get spoiled as badly as you do? You mother must really have had her hands full with two just like you or opposite you when you are opposite him....well, something like that...Could she tell you appart?




> That's me in a nutshell.


Does sound like the impression I have gotten of you....in a nutshell! haha...You have some of each in your personality...that is perfect...a cusp baby. 

*Scher,* can we rename this thread "Astrology 101"?



> w00t!


Interesting word!  :Goof:  

Woot, this thread sure is a hoot!

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## bazarov

> You know, *bazarov*, that sounds like something Bazarov, from "Fathers and Sons" would say.


No!  :FRlol:   :FRlol:

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## Janine

> No!


NO?  :FRlol:   :FRlol:   :FRlol:

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## Dori

> Twin, how interesting....so does he get spoiled as badly as you do? You mother must really have had her hands full with two just like you or opposite you when you are opposite him....well, something like that...Could she tell you appart?


Yes, he does get as spoiled. My twin and I are similar in some ways, but drastically different in everything else. For example, while I like reading he prefers to play video games or paintball. This is not to say I'm any smarter than him; he knows more than me (and probably most people our age) about computers. Whenever I can, I try to educate him in my strong points, while he does the same for me. Also, although we are identical, we don't look identical. I have longer hair and a distinctively different face. My mother never has a hard time telling us apart. There are only two groups of people who cant tell us apart: (1) new acquaintances, and (2) stuck-up preppy girls (even though they've gone to the same school as us for six years!). 




> Interesting word!  
> 
> Woot, this thread sure is a hoot!


It is a term common on gaming forums, or among gamers in real life (such as myself on occasion).  :Smile:

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## Janine

> Yes, he does get as spoiled. My twin and I are similar in some ways, but drastically different in everything else. For example, while I like reading he prefers to play video games or paintball. This is not to say I'm any smarter than him; he knows more than me (and probably most people our age) about computers. Whenever I can, I try to educate him in my strong points, while he does the same for me. Also, although we are identical, we don't look identical. I have longer hair and a distinctively different face. My mother never has a hard time telling us apart. There are only two groups of people who cant tell us apart: (1) new acquaintances, and (2) stuck-up preppy girls (even though they've gone to the same school as us for six years!).


*Dori,* very interesting! Actually, I can relate to this completely. I have know a few sets of twins well and they are not completely identical in looks. I could always tell them appart. Twins often are such opposites in personality, also. I dated a twin in high school and his brother was the funny one and he was the serious minded one. They were quite opposite in temperment. 
It seems you two completement each other well, which is splendid! It is truly nice to hear that you celebrate the differences in you personalities and natures and it benefits you both, in this way. This is a good 'brother/sibling' story - you should write a poem about twins and how it is with your own twin - that would be interesting. 
My son is not at all interested in novels or anything literature oriented. However he is a wiz at computers and installation, etc...also, home improvements, building, anything mechanical. His friends all think him a 'genius' in these things and the way in which he catches on quickly to anything new he has to learn to do. This is not to say he does not read; recently he did tell me he had read a novel and I nearly fainted, but he is far enough from his struggles with mainstream school work now, to discover the true pleasure of pure reading. I was glad of that. Yes, intelligence can manifest itself in many forms, not just being book sauvy. 






> It is a term common on gaming forums, or among gamers in real life (such as myself on occasion).


So you are a gamer? It is a growing craze I hear.  :Biggrin:

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## Dori

> It seems you two completement each other well, which is splendid! It is truly nice to hear that you celebrate the differences in you personalities and natures and it benefits you both, in this way. This is a good 'brother/sibling' story - you should write a poem about twins and how it is with your own twin - that would be interesting.


I'm no poet.  :Frown:  




> My son is not at all interested in novels or anything literature oriented. However he is a wiz at computers and installation, etc...also, home improvements, building, anything mechanical. His friends all think him a 'genius' in these things and the way in which he catches on quickly to anything new he has to learn to do. This is not to say he does not read; recently he did tell me he had read a novel and I nearly fainted, but he is far enough from his struggles with mainstream school work now, to discover the true pleasure of pure reading. I was glad of that. Yes, intelligence can manifest itself in many forms, not just being book sauvy.


I agree with your last statement. I've done a little reading ahead in my psychology textbook and there's a whole chapter devoted to "Intelligence." There are many theories out there and I was surprised at some of them. If you're interested I can elaborate further on this. 




> So you are a gamer? It is a growing craze I hear.


I used to be a big gamer, but then I discovered literature. Now I only play when I'm invited to a gaming party. And, because I installed Linux (rather than Windows) on my computer, I'm limited as to what games I can actually play.

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## Janine

> I'm no poet.


Maybe you have not tried yet and you are a natural: 'the poetic soccer star!'  :FRlol:  




> I agree with your last statement. I've done a little reading ahead in my psychology textbook and there's a whole chapter devoted to "Intelligence." There are many theories out there and I was surprised at some of them. If you're interested I can elaborate further on this.


*Dori,* That sounds like something I would be highly interested in. Do you have a scanner? Maybe you could scan the pages and send to me (my regular email address). I will PM you about it. That would be way too far off topic for in this thread, unless you would want to start a thread just about that topic. That is an interesting idea. Maybe you could call it 'Theories of Intelligence'.  :Thumbs Up:  




> I used to be a big gamer, but then I discovered literature. Now I only play when I'm invited to a gaming party. And, because I installed Linux (rather than Windows) on my computer, I'm limited as to what games I can actually play.


Well, we all change our priorities eventually. We just grow into other interests. What is Linux? I never heard of it before. Is it something new? hummm

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## Dori

> Maybe you have not tried yet and you are a natural: 'the poetic soccer star!'


 :FRlol:  Perhaps, but I doubt it. 




> *Dori,* That sounds like something I would be highly interested in. Do you have a scanner? Maybe you could scan the pages and send to me (my regular email address). I will PM you about it. That would be way too far off topic for in this thread, unless you would want to start a thread just about that topic. That is an interesting idea. Maybe you could call it 'Theories of Intelligence'.


I don't have a scanner (at least one that is readily accessible), so I will have to start a topic. I would put in the Off Topic section, right?




> Well, we all change our priorities eventually. We just grow into other interests. What is Linux? I never heard of it before. Is it something new? hummm


Linux is an operating system (like Windows) for computers. When you buy a computer, you usually have to pay for the Windows XP software whereas Linux software is absolutely free. For more information, here's the Wikipedia article for it: Linux.

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## grace86

Hi guys! I am reading the novel but don't have time to reply. I just flew into Texas to be with my family for Christmas. But I should post when I have more time. Really enjoying it...hope to read more of these comments.

EDIT**I meant to post this in the actual Fathers and Sons thread, somehow it got here accidentally...sorry about that.

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## Janine

> Hi guys! I am reading the novel but don't have time to reply. I just flew into Texas to be with my family for Christmas. But I should post when I have more time. Really enjoying it...hope to read more of these comments.
> 
> EDIT**I meant to post this in the actual Fathers and Sons thread, somehow it got here accidentally...sorry about that.


Yes, I noticed that, *Grace,* but I laughed - it was fine; at least we know now you are reading the novel (in two threads). *Scher* said this is the longest running poll thread ever; *Baz* said we got a little 'off topic', but *Janine* (I) said 'what is the harm of it?' ...this turned into a 'chit-chat' thread really.... :FRlol:

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